Documentary: American Promise

[Anonymous]

I thought the comment from the private school administrator about the difference between African-American boys and African-American girls with regard to their ability to succeed in dalton like environments was intriguing. Any thoughts as to why that is the case?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was surprised that Dalton didn't insist that Idris have testing done for ADHD. Being a private school, they can put pressure on a family for this to happen. And how is it that the school didn't notice or make it clear that Seun had dyslexia until 4th grade? Don't they have learning specialists at elite private schools that would notice he isn't able to read and wonder why?

Maybe if they weren't armed with a film camera Dalton would have pressed. Also, the Brewster family may have pushed back using their academic credentials, i.e., Dad is a Stanford educated psychiatrist. I was upset while watching Seun struggle in front of his peers during his French class. It appeared that he didn't belong at the school. Yes, private schools will press families to have learning disabilities addressed. Locally, Beauvoir definitely does coerce parents to have their child tested and will pull students out of class to work with their learning specialists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was surprised that Dalton didn't insist that Idris have testing done for ADHD. Being a private school, they can put pressure on a family for this to happen. And how is it that the school didn't notice or make it clear that Seun had dyslexia until 4th grade? Don't they have learning specialists at elite private schools that would notice he isn't able to read and wonder why?

They can put on the pressure, but they can't make the parents have their children tested. The father said mention was made of Idris having ADHD early on but he didn't agree. It was likely the school that made this suggestion.

I suspect he only acted in 10th grade because 1. They were desperate, nothing else had worked. And they were willing to try ANYTHING with junior--the college determining year--just around the corner. Ivy by any means necessary. 2. They heard about classmates whose grades improved once they took medication. Again, Ivy by any means necessary. And if medicine would get him the Ivy grades, let's do it!

In Seun's case, they may have noticed he was a struggling reader without knowing that dyslexia was the reason. Or who knows. Maybe they did tell the parents, but when you hear everything the school tells you from the perspective of an AA parent who expects the school to single out her baby...

[Anonymous]

Thank you to the OP that started this thread.

I watched the program last night (and thanks to the PP that shared the link). I am the parent of two kids with ADHD and my son (age 10) joined in viewing it late in the program, right where the ADHD diagnosis was read. My son was "shocked" that someone could make it all the way to high school and not have the benefit of an ADHD diagnosis until then.

I plan to watch it again with my son so he gets to watch the entire documentary. I think this may serve not only as an education for me but also my son.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought the comment from the private school administrator about the difference between African-American boys and African-American girls with regard to their ability to succeed in dalton like environments was intriguing. Any thoughts as to why that is the case?

I'm an AA whose son went to a predominately white elite school that's a lot like Dalton. He started in pre-school and went until we moved to the DMV in mid-elementary.

Being in his classroom I noticed a tremendous difference between the boys and girls. And I think it had more to do with gender than race. My son was the only black boy in the class but all the boys were cut-ups. I would drop him off and school and the boys would immediately start wrestling the minute their coats came off. The girls sat down and started doing their work. Frankly, the differences continue throughout life. Females are just so much more mature than males.

So I suspect the issue is not a black boy vs. black girl thing. Girls are just more mature, period. They have their own issues though. The AA mother of the only black girl in my son's elite school lamented how the little girls were worried about clothing. Yes, even as early as kindergarten they were worried about whose dress was nicer! And some days the girls liked each other; other days they did not. I was shocked to hear this. Needless to say the boys didn't care about how they were dressed so it never occurred to me this was an issue so early on until talking to that mother. My issue was having my DS not get a time out and his early struggles with reading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you to the OP that started this thread.

I watched the program last night (and thanks to the PP that shared the link). I am the parent of two kids with ADHD and my son (age 10) joined in viewing it late in the program, right where the ADHD diagnosis was read. My son was "shocked" that someone could make it all the way to high school and not have the benefit of an ADHD diagnosis until then.

I plan to watch it again with my son so he gets to watch the entire documentary. I think this may serve not only as an education for me but also my son.

I'm going to do the same. I told my son earlier in the week that I want him to watch a documentary with me this weekend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was surprised that Dalton didn't insist that Idris have testing done for ADHD. Being a private school, they can put pressure on a family for this to happen. And how is it that the school didn't notice or make it clear that Seun had dyslexia until 4th grade? Don't they have learning specialists at elite private schools that would notice he isn't able to read and wonder why?

They can put on the pressure, but they can't make the parents have their children tested. The father said mention was made of Idris having ADHD early on but he didn't agree. It was likely the school that made this suggestion.

I suspect he only acted in 10th grade because 1. They were desperate, nothing else had worked. And they were willing to try ANYTHING with junior--the college determining year--just around the corner. Ivy by any means necessary. 2. They heard about classmates whose grades improved once they took medication. Again, Ivy by any means necessary. And if medicine would get him the Ivy grades, let's do it!

In Seun's case, they may have noticed he was a struggling reader without knowing that dyslexia was the reason. Or who knows. Maybe they did tell the parents, but when you hear everything the school tells you from the perspective of an AA parent who expects the school to single out her baby...

Both sets of parents are college educated with resources but seem so slow in acting when they could have addressed their sons diagnoses early on. They even filmed their sons academic struggles, I don't understand why they didn't get it. This wasn't just the teachers singling out their baby, their babies were demonstrating they were struggling on camera.

Why did the Brewsters just realize in 10th grade that ADHD meds help with focus and by extension grades? They are at a competitive school, by 10th grade it's usually too late to move a C average to an A average.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was surprised that Dalton didn't insist that Idris have testing done for ADHD. Being a private school, they can put pressure on a family for this to happen. And how is it that the school didn't notice or make it clear that Seun had dyslexia until 4th grade? Don't they have learning specialists at elite private schools that would notice he isn't able to read and wonder why?

They can put on the pressure, but they can't make the parents have their children tested. The father said mention was made of Idris having ADHD early on but he didn't agree. It was likely the school that made this suggestion.

I suspect he only acted in 10th grade because 1. They were desperate, nothing else had worked. And they were willing to try ANYTHING with junior--the college determining year--just around the corner. Ivy by any means necessary. 2. They heard about classmates whose grades improved once they took medication. Again, Ivy by any means necessary. And if medicine would get him the Ivy grades, let's do it!

In Seun's case, they may have noticed he was a struggling reader without knowing that dyslexia was the reason. Or who knows. Maybe they did tell the parents, but when you hear everything the school tells you from the perspective of an AA parent who expects the school to single out her baby...

Both sets of parents are college educated with resources but seem so slow in acting when they could have addressed their sons diagnoses early on. They even filmed their sons academic struggles, I don't understand why they didn't get it. This wasn't just the teachers singling out their baby, their babies were demonstrating they were struggling on camera.

Why did the Brewsters just realize in 10th grade that ADHD meds help with focus and by extension grades? They are at a competitive school, by 10th grade it's usually too late to move a C average to an A average.

Clearly they were prideful and in denial.

I'm the AA whose son was the only black kid in the class at a similar elite all-white school. He also struggled academically early on. I saw it and addressed it early on. And I'm so glad I did. Today there is no sign the kid ever had academic issues (especially in the area of reading) and the few people I've told find it absolutely hard to believe.

I have no idea why they didn't get it. Or perhaps they thought they could work their children through it on their own and that it would get better as the kids got older. By HS (and certainly in grade 10) there's no denying it. Then again, my son was simply a struggling reader. He was dyslexic and ADHD was not an issue. So that could be the difference.

[Anonymous]

I meant he was NOT dyslexic and did not have ADHD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was surprised that Dalton didn't insist that Idris have testing done for ADHD. Being a private school, they can put pressure on a family for this to happen. And how is it that the school didn't notice or make it clear that Seun had dyslexia until 4th grade? Don't they have learning specialists at elite private schools that would notice he isn't able to read and wonder why?

They can put on the pressure, but they can't make the parents have their children tested. The father said mention was made of Idris having ADHD early on but he didn't agree. It was likely the school that made this suggestion.

I suspect he only acted in 10th grade because 1. They were desperate, nothing else had worked. And they were willing to try ANYTHING with junior--the college determining year--just around the corner. Ivy by any means necessary. 2. They heard about classmates whose grades improved once they took medication. Again, Ivy by any means necessary. And if medicine would get him the Ivy grades, let's do it!

In Seun's case, they may have noticed he was a struggling reader without knowing that dyslexia was the reason. Or who knows. Maybe they did tell the parents, but when you hear everything the school tells you from the perspective of an AA parent who expects the school to single out her baby...

Both sets of parents are college educated with resources but seem so slow in acting when they could have addressed their sons diagnoses early on. They even filmed their sons academic struggles, I don't understand why they didn't get it. This wasn't just the teachers singling out their baby, their babies were demonstrating they were struggling on camera.

Why did the Brewsters just realize in 10th grade that ADHD meds help with focus and by extension grades? They are at a competitive school, by 10th grade it's usually too late to move a C average to an A average.

Clearly they were prideful and in denial.

I'm the AA whose son was the only black kid in the class at a similar elite all-white school. He also struggled academically early on. I saw it and addressed it early on. And I'm so glad I did. Today there is no sign the kid ever had academic issues (especially in the area of reading) and the few people I've told find it absolutely hard to believe.

I have no idea why they didn't get it. Or perhaps they thought they could work their children through it on their own and that it would get better as the kids got older. By HS (and certainly in grade 10) there's no denying it. Then again, my son was simply a struggling reader. He was dyslexic and ADHD was not an issue. So that could be the difference.

It wasn't clear to me that they were in denial given that both families were frustrated (micromanaging homework, etc) with their son's school performance at least behind closed doors at home, this indicated an awareness of there being a problem. And, is it really pride if your child is flunking out or struggling at school, how can you thump out your chest with that reality?

Now if it was a matter of not trusting what the white professionals at school are telling you, well...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was surprised that Dalton didn't insist that Idris have testing done for ADHD. Being a private school, they can put pressure on a family for this to happen. And how is it that the school didn't notice or make it clear that Seun had dyslexia until 4th grade? Don't they have learning specialists at elite private schools that would notice he isn't able to read and wonder why?

They can put on the pressure, but they can't make the parents have their children tested. The father said mention was made of Idris having ADHD early on but he didn't agree. It was likely the school that made this suggestion.

I suspect he only acted in 10th grade because 1. They were desperate, nothing else had worked. And they were willing to try ANYTHING with junior--the college determining year--just around the corner. Ivy by any means necessary. 2. They heard about classmates whose grades improved once they took medication. Again, Ivy by any means necessary. And if medicine would get him the Ivy grades, let's do it!

In Seun's case, they may have noticed he was a struggling reader without knowing that dyslexia was the reason. Or who knows. Maybe they did tell the parents, but when you hear everything the school tells you from the perspective of an AA parent who expects the school to single out her baby...

Both sets of parents are college educated with resources but seem so slow in acting when they could have addressed their sons diagnoses early on. They even filmed their sons academic struggles, I don't understand why they didn't get it. This wasn't just the teachers singling out their baby, their babies were demonstrating they were struggling on camera.

Why did the Brewsters just realize in 10th grade that ADHD meds help with focus and by extension grades? They are at a competitive school, by 10th grade it's usually too late to move a C average to an A average.

Clearly they were prideful and in denial.

I'm the AA whose son was the only black kid in the class at a similar elite all-white school. He also struggled academically early on. I saw it and addressed it early on. And I'm so glad I did. Today there is no sign the kid ever had academic issues (especially in the area of reading) and the few people I've told find it absolutely hard to believe.

I have no idea why they didn't get it. Or perhaps they thought they could work their children through it on their own and that it would get better as the kids got older. By HS (and certainly in grade 10) there's no denying it. Then again, my son was simply a struggling reader. He was dyslexic and ADHD was not an issue. So that could be the difference.

It wasn't clear to me that they were in denial given that both families were frustrated (micromanaging homework, etc) with their son's school performance at least behind closed doors at home, this indicated an awareness of there being a problem. And, is it really pride if your child is flunking out or struggling at school, how can you thump out your chest with that reality?

Now if it was a matter of not trusting what the white professionals at school are telling you, well...

Prideful=too much pride to believe your child has a problem. And denial=in denial about the fact that there is a real problem-not just a case of the lazies that can be resolved through micromanagement and nagging.

And yes there was also some suspicion of that white school targeting their black boys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was surprised that Dalton didn't insist that Idris have testing done for ADHD. Being a private school, they can put pressure on a family for this to happen. And how is it that the school didn't notice or make it clear that Seun had dyslexia until 4th grade? Don't they have learning specialists at elite private schools that would notice he isn't able to read and wonder why?

They can put on the pressure, but they can't make the parents have their children tested. The father said mention was made of Idris having ADHD early on but he didn't agree. It was likely the school that made this suggestion.

I suspect he only acted in 10th grade because 1. They were desperate, nothing else had worked. And they were willing to try ANYTHING with junior--the college determining year--just around the corner. Ivy by any means necessary. 2. They heard about classmates whose grades improved once they took medication. Again, Ivy by any means necessary. And if medicine would get him the Ivy grades, let's do it!

In Seun's case, they may have noticed he was a struggling reader without knowing that dyslexia was the reason. Or who knows. Maybe they did tell the parents, but when you hear everything the school tells you from the perspective of an AA parent who expects the school to single out her baby...

Both sets of parents are college educated with resources but seem so slow in acting when they could have addressed their sons diagnoses early on. They even filmed their sons academic struggles, I don't understand why they didn't get it. This wasn't just the teachers singling out their baby, their babies were demonstrating they were struggling on camera.

Why did the Brewsters just realize in 10th grade that ADHD meds help with focus and by extension grades? They are at a competitive school, by 10th grade it's usually too late to move a C average to an A average.

Clearly they were prideful and in denial.

I'm the AA whose son was the only black kid in the class at a similar elite all-white school. He also struggled academically early on. I saw it and addressed it early on. And I'm so glad I did. Today there is no sign the kid ever had academic issues (especially in the area of reading) and the few people I've told find it absolutely hard to believe.

I have no idea why they didn't get it. Or perhaps they thought they could work their children through it on their own and that it would get better as the kids got older. By HS (and certainly in grade 10) there's no denying it. Then again, my son was simply a struggling reader. He was dyslexic and ADHD was not an issue. So that could be the difference.

It wasn't clear to me that they were in denial given that both families were frustrated (micromanaging homework, etc) with their son's school performance at least behind closed doors at home, this indicated an awareness of there being a problem. And, is it really pride if your child is flunking out or struggling at school, how can you thump out your chest with that reality?

Now if it was a matter of not trusting what the white professionals at school are telling you, well...

Prideful=too much pride to believe your child has a problem. And denial=in denial about the fact that there is a real problem-not just a case of the lazies that can be resolved through micromanagement and nagging.

And yes there was also some suspicion of that white school targeting their black boys.

Okay, maybe there was pride and denial in play by both families; however, they were in the Dalton system for roughly ten years, aware parents sense when it's more going on than their child being lazy. By about 4th/5th grade the workload increases and it's really around this period when parents get an inkling something is a midst with their child, repeatedly lack luster report cards, below proficient test scores, and parent-teacher conferences further fill in the blanks. I'm surprised that during the primary years Seun wasn't counseled out. I suppose placing him on academic probation before high school is how they handle a case like his. Not clear why Dalton failed to tell his parents that the school was a poor fit earlier on. In Idris' case, if he remained a C student throughout he could have continued to flounder without the fear of being counseled out. The parents were nervous and desperate about college placement and that's the only reason they went ahead and had him tested.

AP doesn't explain why most of the black parents felt that 95% of black students had emotional problems at Dalton. If they were having problems at Dalton, wouldn't these same problems be at play at an ivy league school. Maybe the emotional problem was that the students no longer wanted to be at Dalton but felt trapped by their parents wishes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was surprised that Dalton didn't insist that Idris have testing done for ADHD. Being a private school, they can put pressure on a family for this to happen. And how is it that the school didn't notice or make it clear that Seun had dyslexia until 4th grade? Don't they have learning specialists at elite private schools that would notice he isn't able to read and wonder why?

They can put on the pressure, but they can't make the parents have their children tested. The father said mention was made of Idris having ADHD early on but he didn't agree. It was likely the school that made this suggestion.

I suspect he only acted in 10th grade because 1. They were desperate, nothing else had worked. And they were willing to try ANYTHING with junior--the college determining year--just around the corner. Ivy by any means necessary. 2. They heard about classmates whose grades improved once they took medication. Again, Ivy by any means necessary. And if medicine would get him the Ivy grades, let's do it!

In Seun's case, they may have noticed he was a struggling reader without knowing that dyslexia was the reason. Or who knows. Maybe they did tell the parents, but when you hear everything the school tells you from the perspective of an AA parent who expects the school to single out her baby...

Both sets of parents are college educated with resources but seem so slow in acting when they could have addressed their sons diagnoses early on. They even filmed their sons academic struggles, I don't understand why they didn't get it. This wasn't just the teachers singling out their baby, their babies were demonstrating they were struggling on camera.

Why did the Brewsters just realize in 10th grade that ADHD meds help with focus and by extension grades? They are at a competitive school, by 10th grade it's usually too late to move a C average to an A average.

Clearly they were prideful and in denial.

I'm the AA whose son was the only black kid in the class at a similar elite all-white school. He also struggled academically early on. I saw it and addressed it early on. And I'm so glad I did. Today there is no sign the kid ever had academic issues (especially in the area of reading) and the few people I've told find it absolutely hard to believe.

I have no idea why they didn't get it. Or perhaps they thought they could work their children through it on their own and that it would get better as the kids got older. By HS (and certainly in grade 10) there's no denying it. Then again, my son was simply a struggling reader. He was dyslexic and ADHD was not an issue. So that could be the difference.

It wasn't clear to me that they were in denial given that both families were frustrated (micromanaging homework, etc) with their son's school performance at least behind closed doors at home, this indicated an awareness of there being a problem. And, is it really pride if your child is flunking out or struggling at school, how can you thump out your chest with that reality?

Now if it was a matter of not trusting what the white professionals at school are telling you, well...

The problem of trusting professionals is real for black parents or at least for me. My son's preschool teacher insisted that he was ADD. The school's counselor suggested a number of things to improve his behavior, etc. I pulled him out of the school and since had him tested twice by different psychologists. Both have said that he is perfectly normal.

[Anonymous]

I don't think Dalton failed the kids. I think it was a poor fit for both kids and the parents were more concerned about prestige than they were about how it would impact their kids. Those kids would have been far better off in a regular school with support services. Dalton tried by giving more tutoring and suggested early on they get evaluated. The psychiatrist dad was in full denial. It was about him, not his son.

[Anonymous]

I guess the parents didn't really like the alternative. I can see how Idris' father would look down on a public school in Brooklyn or wherever they lived.