Documentary: American Promise

[Anonymous]

I think it is all the more striking that they are upper middle class kids with invested parents and still struggle with these issues. It points out that it is not a only class problem, but an issue of underlying bias/racism even in situations with the best of intentions at elite prep schools.

[Anonymous]

I've only had time to watch the first 30 minutes.

I am seeing Idris's difficulty with school but not seeing so far much connection with him being AFrican American. THey are saying the school thinks he may have ADHD but someone (the dad? psychiatrist) doesn't think he resembles kids with ADHD...

But he looks exactly like my (white) child at that age who had significant Executive Function Disorder. It was painful watching Idris upset at having worked on some story for 2 weeks but then having apparently left or forgotten it somewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've only had time to watch the first 30 minutes.

I am seeing Idris's difficulty with school but not seeing so far much connection with him being AFrican American. THey are saying the school thinks he may have ADHD but someone (the dad? psychiatrist) doesn't think he resembles kids with ADHD...

But he looks exactly like my (white) child at that age who had significant Executive Function Disorder. It was painful watching Idris upset at having worked on some story for 2 weeks but then having apparently left or forgotten it somewhere.

I'm AA with a child that age, too, and was wondering the same thing as I know several boys of different races with ADHD. However, I'm also aware that AA boys are disproportionately labelled learning disabled.

While on one hand I found AP moving, I didn't get it's premise of what happens to our AA boys (psychologically) who attend predominantly white & affluent private schools. I was expecting experiences of teachers viewing the boys as intellectually inferior or the boys being conditioned from pk-high school to believe that their white counterparts are intellectually superior. My son and peers have encountered both situations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that by buying into the hyperinvolved, hypercompetitive ethos of wealthy white parents, Idris's parents ended up not just crippling him emotionally, but hampering his success as well. What was their ultimate goal? If it was to have a hard-working, self-motivated kid who'd have a good chance of getting into a top school, they'd be much better off doing exactly the opposite of what they did: Enroll him in an "average" school where this very bright kid would be an academic star (top 1%, valedictorian -- don't college's love to see that?) without having to resort to daily multi-hour study sessions and ADHD medication. Provide academic enrichment but don't check his homework, so he'd have a chance to develop his own time management skills and motivation. The fact that he'd have more time to work on his basketball game wouldn't hurt either.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've only had time to watch the first 30 minutes.

I am seeing Idris's difficulty with school but not seeing so far much connection with him being AFrican American. THey are saying the school thinks he may have ADHD but someone (the dad? psychiatrist) doesn't think he resembles kids with ADHD...

But he looks exactly like my (white) child at that age who had significant Executive Function Disorder. It was painful watching Idris upset at having worked on some story for 2 weeks but then having apparently left or forgotten it somewhere.

I'm AA with a child that age, too, and was wondering the same thing as I know several boys of different races with ADHD. However, I'm also aware that AA boys are disproportionately labelled learning disabled.

While on one hand I found AP moving, I didn't get it's premise of what happens to our AA boys (psychologically) who attend predominantly white & affluent private schools. I was expecting experiences of teachers viewing the boys as intellectually inferior or the boys being conditioned from pk-high school to believe that their white counterparts are intellectually superior. My son and peers have encountered both situations.

I agree.

Unlike their son, the Summers are not very self-aware. I can't believe they edited and viewed this film thinking it would be an indictment of predominately white schools and didn't realize even once that Idris' problem was THEM!

Dalton diagnosed the boys' learning issues early on, but instead of addressing the issue, they blamed racism, the school and even said, "They don't know him. He's not like that at home." Uh, DUH! He doesn't have his classmates, bright lights and colors, and lots of stuff to get into at home. All he had at home were two stuffy, uptight parents. Of course, he was chilled out there. Michele even questioned the school environment. DOH! Fast forward to 10th grade and the boy is diagnosed with ADHD and given medication.

The school even provided private tutoring free of charge for the boys. But instead of being grateful, they complained the boys had been singled out because of their race. Uh, Noooooo....the other parents were paying for tutoring outside of school.

I believe Dalton did everything they could to support Idris. But the parents weren't interested in being team players. I believe they had a pre-conceived idea of how their son would be treated and it became a self-fulfilled prophecy.

Had they addressed his behavior and provided tutoring early on and taken the edge off the micromanaging, I think he would've been just fine by HS.

[Anonymous]

I have a feeling they are still micromanaging Idris and the younger sibling. No wonder he wanted to go to school on the West Coast. It was exhausting just watching them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've only had time to watch the first 30 minutes.

I am seeing Idris's difficulty with school but not seeing so far much connection with him being AFrican American. THey are saying the school thinks he may have ADHD but someone (the dad? psychiatrist) doesn't think he resembles kids with ADHD...

But he looks exactly like my (white) child at that age who had significant Executive Function Disorder. It was painful watching Idris upset at having worked on some story for 2 weeks but then having apparently left or forgotten it somewhere.

I'm AA with a child that age, too, and was wondering the same thing as I know several boys of different races with ADHD. However, I'm also aware that AA boys are disproportionately labelled learning disabled.

While on one hand I found AP moving, I didn't get it's premise of what happens to our AA boys (psychologically) who attend predominantly white & affluent private schools. I was expecting experiences of teachers viewing the boys as intellectually inferior or the boys being conditioned from pk-high school to believe that their white counterparts are intellectually superior. My son and peers have encountered both situations.

I agree.

Unlike their son, the Summers are not very self-aware. I can't believe they edited and viewed this film thinking it would be an indictment of predominately white schools and didn't realize even once that Idris' problem was THEM!

Dalton diagnosed the boys' learning issues early on, but instead of addressing the issue, they blamed racism, the school and even said, "They don't know him. He's not like that at home." Uh, DUH! He doesn't have his classmates, bright lights and colors, and lots of stuff to get into at home. All he had at home were two stuffy, uptight parents. Of course, he was chilled out there. Michele even questioned the school environment. DOH! Fast forward to 10th grade and the boy is diagnosed with ADHD and given medication.

The school even provided private tutoring free of charge for the boys. But instead of being grateful, they complained the boys had been singled out because of their race. Uh, Noooooo....the other parents were paying for tutoring outside of school.

I believe Dalton did everything they could to support Idris. But the parents weren't interested in being team players. I believe they had a pre-conceived idea of how their son would be treated and it became a self-fulfilled prophecy.

Had they addressed his behavior and provided tutoring early on and taken the edge off the micromanaging, I think he would've been just fine by HS.

ITA. I am surprised that Dalton didn't kick out Seun earlier when it was apparent that he was struggling by third grade. Dalton could have filled the space with a high achieving AA/Hispanic student who would have benefited from being there. Then other students could see that there are academically advanced AA boys. Idris came across as really immature and entitled. I wonder if he was young for his grade but I kept thinking he should have been retained or redshirted. Why did his parents let him have a play station when he was struggling academically? I think they kept thinking he has a high IQ so he didn't need to work hard.

[Anonymous]

I think I read that they started with 5 kids but 3 dropped out of filming. I really would have liked to see one student do well academically. I also was wondering where the younger siblings of Idris and Seun went to school. Is Idris' younger brother at Dalton. If so are his parents doing anything differently this time around?

[Anonymous]

This show along with a number of books such a Judith Warner's Perfect Madness and the more recent All Joy, No Fun by Jennifer Senior seem consciously or not to be pushing against parents being so vested in our children's future. I have thought lot about this as I am dealing with my kid failing Algebra. At one level I want her to own the changes, turn in the homework dammit, study, put the ipod down. But as I push and push I realize she does not own the outcome. I do think our children will have to figure out how to redefine the parenting relationship, if only to have a way of rebelling against us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This show along with a number of books such a Judith Warner's Perfect Madness and the more recent All Joy, No Fun by Jennifer Senior seem consciously or not to be pushing against parents being so vested in our children's future. I have thought lot about this as I am dealing with my kid failing Algebra. At one level I want her to own the changes, turn in the homework dammit, study, put the ipod down. But as I push and push I realize she does not own the outcome. I do think our children will have to figure out how to redefine the parenting relationship, if only to have a way of rebelling against us.

I took away the opposite message, the parents did too little to late for their kids to keep up in a competitive environment. When Idris' father finally realized he needed academic help (after being offended when he was offered free tutoring the year before after school) he made a chart and realized his son was spending a lot of time playing playstation. Only then did he organize his schedule. If they realized Idris had trouble being organized why didn't they make sure all of his work was printed and put in his backpack the night before. If he was struggling getting C's perhaps they shouldn't have let him play Varsity basketball as a ninth grader. He might have had more time and earlier games playing JV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that by buying into the hyperinvolved, hypercompetitive ethos of wealthy white parents, Idris's parents ended up not just crippling him emotionally, but hampering his success as well. What was their ultimate goal? If it was to have a hard-working, self-motivated kid who'd have a good chance of getting into a top school, they'd be much better off doing exactly the opposite of what they did: Enroll him in an "average" school where this very bright kid would be an academic star (top 1%, valedictorian -- don't college's love to see that?) without having to resort to daily multi-hour study sessions and ADHD medication. Provide academic enrichment but don't check his homework, so he'd have a chance to develop his own time management skills and motivation. The fact that he'd have more time to work on his basketball game wouldn't hurt either.

+1. Know someone who was valedictorian of a public school and went to an Ivy. He was always down about not having been able to go to a private middle and high school. Think he would never have been a valedictorian of a competitive private school nor would he have gone to an Ivy League school if he did. Though maybe the private school would have helped him feel comfortable at college because he said he didn't fit in socially.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This show along with a number of books such a Judith Warner's Perfect Madness and the more recent All Joy, No Fun by Jennifer Senior seem consciously or not to be pushing against parents being so vested in our children's future. I have thought lot about this as I am dealing with my kid failing Algebra. At one level I want her to own the changes, turn in the homework dammit, study, put the ipod down. But as I push and push I realize she does not own the outcome. I do think our children will have to figure out how to redefine the parenting relationship, if only to have a way of rebelling against us.

I took away the opposite message, the parents did too little to late for their kids to keep up in a competitive environment. When Idris' father finally realized he needed academic help (after being offended when he was offered free tutoring the year before after school) he made a chart and realized his son was spending a lot of time playing playstation. Only then did he organize his schedule. If they realized Idris had trouble being organized why didn't they make sure all of his work was printed and put in his backpack the night before. If he was struggling getting C's perhaps they shouldn't have let him play Varsity basketball as a ninth grader. He might have had more time and earlier games playing JV.

His parents went to elite colleges. How were they able to do it if they didn't go to a school like Dalton? I am thinking maybe it is like the immigrants who bust their ass working and becoming successful. Then the later generations who have assimilated and are comfortable don't work as hard as their parents did. The self motivated hunger and drive is gone.

[Anonymous]

I have not seen the movie, but my interest is now more piqued than the adverts I've heard on WAMU. Regarding one of the last posts here, DH and I struggle similarly with one of our 2 DCs. Slightly older DD is very driven, while younger DS is not. Very, very bright kid, but not driven. He is neither entitled nor lazy, yet lacks the inner drive. This can drive my DH a little nuts. I mainly worry about how he will survive as my only template to live has been to work hard. We are not helicopter parents, so DS will sink or swim on his own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This show along with a number of books such a Judith Warner's Perfect Madness and the more recent All Joy, No Fun by Jennifer Senior seem consciously or not to be pushing against parents being so vested in our children's future. I have thought lot about this as I am dealing with my kid failing Algebra. At one level I want her to own the changes, turn in the homework dammit, study, put the ipod down. But as I push and push I realize she does not own the outcome. I do think our children will have to figure out how to redefine the parenting relationship, if only to have a way of rebelling against us.

I took away the opposite message, the parents did too little to late for their kids to keep up in a competitive environment. When Idris' father finally realized he needed academic help (after being offended when he was offered free tutoring the year before after school) he made a chart and realized his son was spending a lot of time playing playstation. Only then did he organize his schedule. If they realized Idris had trouble being organized why didn't they make sure all of his work was printed and put in his backpack the night before. If he was struggling getting C's perhaps they shouldn't have let him play Varsity basketball as a ninth grader. He might have had more time and earlier games playing JV.

His parents went to elite colleges. How were they able to do it if they didn't go to a school like Dalton? I am thinking maybe it is like the immigrants who bust their ass working and becoming successful. Then the later generations who have assimilated and are comfortable don't work as hard as their parents did. The self motivated hunger and drive is gone.

Maybe they didn't have their parents stressing them out like the Brewsters did coupled with a competitive environment like Dalton, so they felt free to explore and grow academically. Also, it was a totally different time. I went to HS in the 80's and it was nowhere near as competitive and difficult as it is now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a feeling they are still micromanaging Idris and the younger sibling. No wonder he wanted to go to school on the West Coast. It was exhausting just watching them.

Exactly! I'M certain his parents are the reason Idris was always so tired.