Praying in someone else's home

[Anonymous]

But I think there's a middle ground between "I will purposefully pray aloud passive-agressively to rub your nose in my Christian-ness" and "NO PRAYING." For example, the moment of silence I suggested above. Why not try for a solution that accommodates everyone's well-intentioned interests?

[Anonymous]

But is MIL really trying to rub DIL's nose in her religiousness? That sounds a little far fetched to me.

[Anonymous]

If MIL were Catholic and DIL were Jewish, and MIL was saying "We thank the Lord Jesus Christ for the meal we are about to receive" in DIL's home, would that change the dynamic? Essentially, we are talking about one family that practices a religion a certain way imposing their views on another family in that *other family's* home. I think that's offensive, not a minor thing to be brushed off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But is MIL really trying to rub DIL's nose in her religiousness? That sounds a little far fetched to me.

Quoting from OP:

When we visit my MIL's house, we politely bow our heads and pray at meals because, well, it's her house, her rules. Doesn't matter that we don't believe/practice. I do, however, get exceedingly tweaked when she comes to OUR house and starts a group prayer before meals. She knows we aren't religious, she does it on purpose to make a point (she's also peeved we haven't baptized our kid).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But is MIL really trying to rub DIL's nose in her religiousness? That sounds a little far fetched to me.

Quoting from OP:

When we visit my MIL's house, we politely bow our heads and pray at meals because, well, it's her house, her rules. Doesn't matter that we don't believe/practice. I do, however, get exceedingly tweaked when she comes to OUR house and starts a group prayer before meals. She knows we aren't religious, she does it on purpose to make a point (she's also peeved we haven't baptized our kid).

Ok, but two things: 1) OP has no obligation to bow her head and pretend to pray just because she's a guest. It would be equally polite to sit quietly, head up, and wait until grace was over to eat. 2) OP says MIL does it on purpose but that's attribution. We don't really know MIL's intentions.

Several PP's have suggested ways to get around feeling forced into saying grace in your own home but I think this thread has failed to realize that no one is actually being forced into prayer here. I think it would help to remember that bowing your head does not mean you are praying and holding hands with some one while she prays doesn't mean you're praying either. Only God knows whether you're praying in any given moment. Whatever motions you may or may not go along with in others' company is irrelevant. You're free to abstain from the motions of others and you're free to not actively pray - whether you're a guest in some one else's home or hosting grace-saying ILs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But is MIL really trying to rub DIL's nose in her religiousness? That sounds a little far fetched to me.

Quoting from OP:

When we visit my MIL's house, we politely bow our heads and pray at meals because, well, it's her house, her rules. Doesn't matter that we don't believe/practice. I do, however, get exceedingly tweaked when she comes to OUR house and starts a group prayer before meals. She knows we aren't religious, she does it on purpose to make a point (she's also peeved we haven't baptized our kid).

Ok, but two things: 1) OP has no obligation to bow her head and pretend to pray just because she's a guest. It would be equally polite to sit quietly, head up, and wait until grace was over to eat. 2) OP says MIL does it on purpose but that's attribution. We don't really know MIL's intentions.

Several PP's have suggested ways to get around feeling forced into saying grace in your own home but I think this thread has failed to realize that no one is actually being forced into prayer here. I think it would help to remember that bowing your head does not mean you are praying and holding hands with some one while she prays doesn't mean you're praying either. Only God knows whether you're praying in any given moment. Whatever motions you may or may not go along with in others' company is irrelevant. You're free to abstain from the motions of others and you're free to not actively pray - whether you're a guest in some one else's home or hosting grace-saying ILs.

But what I think you're failing to realize is that those of us who are not religious, particularly those of us who are atheist, are bombarded 24/7 with religious messages in this society, as pluralistic as it is. Which is fine, we choose to live here, happily, but it is a relief to have a home where we need not bite our tongues. This is not to say that we atheists should have air horns at the fingertip to drown out any signs of prayer in our homes, but it's not "nothing" to have prayer passive-aggressively inserted into what should be one of the few places where we don't have to deal with it. Our comfort is no more disposable than yours. So I think it's worth finding a solution that respects both parties, rather than assuming that the atheist can just suck it up. Again. Some more.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Looks like this thread has been beat to death while I was gone but for what it's worth, here is some more context and some answers.

1. Yes, it's true, I don't like my MIL very much. You'll see why in a second.
2. She is pretty unhappy with our religious state. We didn't get married in a church, she cried. I didn't change my last name (she believes in male head of household), she complained openly to anyone who would listen. We didn't baptize, told her we weren't going to, she brought my husband's baptism outfit to our home 2 weeks after delivery and cried.
3. I have zero objection to her praying in our home or at our table. And I do it her way at her home with no protest. But the mechanics of what happens when she is at our place is that she and her husband physically grab the hands of the people sitting next to them and start praying out loud.
4. I've never addressed it before. I've sat there and seethed, but have never said anything in the interest of keeping the peace. But now that our kid is here, I want him to know that mom and dad's beliefs are respected in OUR home, and that we respect others in THEIR homes.
5. Yes, I could be gracious and suck it up but I just can't anymore. She has not only ignored the choices about how we handle religion, she's bulldozed them.

Hope that helps. I'm a gracious host. I search out a mass schedule every time she comes. I sent her an interesting book on Catholicism I thought she'd like. I've tried to make this work. I'm done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up atheist, and we never said grace before meal, but I can see where someone who has said it every time before they eat would want to say it no matter where they are eating, especially when they are older and set in their ways. My MIL and FIL are catholic and say this at their house before meals, and I politely bow my head (and grit my teeth), but luckily they don't do this at our house. I can see where it would be irksome, but I say live and let live, it is a small thing really, it just takes 20 seconds and it's not hurting anybody.

Absolutely right on! If this poster can live and let live, then so can OP. Because, OP, is this really the battle where you intend to make your big stand? Is this worth driving off the in-laws over? Not worth it. By lettiing the in-laws say grace when they come, you model tolerance and understanding for your kids. Unless the in-laws are shoving it down your throats by insisting you and the kids say it along with them every time, I don't see the harm. Turning this into a fight only shows your kids a my-way-or-the-highway attitude; is that what you want to model?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Looks like this thread has been beat to death while I was gone but for what it's worth, here is some more context and some answers.

1. Yes, it's true, I don't like my MIL very much. You'll see why in a second.
2. She is pretty unhappy with our religious state. We didn't get married in a church, she cried. I didn't change my last name (she believes in male head of household), she complained openly to anyone who would listen. We didn't baptize, told her we weren't going to, she brought my husband's baptism outfit to our home 2 weeks after delivery and cried.
3. I have zero objection to her praying in our home or at our table. And I do it her way at her home with no protest. But the mechanics of what happens when she is at our place is that she and her husband physically grab the hands of the people sitting next to them and start praying out loud.
4. I've never addressed it before. I've sat there and seethed, but have never said anything in the interest of keeping the peace. But now that our kid is here, I want him to know that mom and dad's beliefs are respected in OUR home, and that we respect others in THEIR homes.
5. Yes, I could be gracious and suck it up but I just can't anymore. She has not only ignored the choices about how we handle religion, she's bulldozed them.

Hope that helps. I'm a gracious host. I search out a mass schedule every time she comes. I sent her an interesting book on Catholicism I thought she'd like. I've tried to make this work. I'm done.

I would pick my battles more on these than on them saying grace out loud and I'd start sitting on my hands in anticipation of grace so they can't be grabbed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up atheist, and we never said grace before meal, but I can see where someone who has said it every time before they eat would want to say it no matter where they are eating, especially when they are older and set in their ways. My MIL and FIL are catholic and say this at their house before meals, and I politely bow my head (and grit my teeth), but luckily they don't do this at our house. I can see where it would be irksome, but I say live and let live, it is a small thing really, it just takes 20 seconds and it's not hurting anybody.

Absolutely right on! If this poster can live and let live, then so can OP. Because, OP, is this really the battle where you intend to make your big stand? Is this worth driving off the in-laws over? Not worth it. By lettiing the in-laws say grace when they come, you model tolerance and understanding for your kids. Unless the in-laws are shoving it down your throats by insisting you and the kids say it along with them every time, I don't see the harm. Turning this into a fight only shows your kids a my-way-or-the-highway attitude; is that what you want to model?

I couldn't have said it better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up atheist, and we never said grace before meal, but I can see where someone who has said it every time before they eat would want to say it no matter where they are eating, especially when they are older and set in their ways. My MIL and FIL are catholic and say this at their house before meals, and I politely bow my head (and grit my teeth), but luckily they don't do this at our house. I can see where it would be irksome, but I say live and let live, it is a small thing really, it just takes 20 seconds and it's not hurting anybody.

Absolutely right on! If this poster can live and let live, then so can OP. Because, OP, is this really the battle where you intend to make your big stand? Is this worth driving off the in-laws over? Not worth it. By lettiing the in-laws say grace when they come, you model tolerance and understanding for your kids. Unless the in-laws are shoving it down your throats by insisting you and the kids say it along with them every time, I don't see the harm. Turning this into a fight only shows your kids a my-way-or-the-highway attitude; is that what you want to model?

I couldn't have said it better.

There is no religious edicting requiring people to say grace before meals - unlike those edicts prohibiting consumption of pork, alcohol, etc. for some groups. If the ILs were really interested in fulfilling what they see as their religious need to say grace, they would be fine praying siliently. However, that's not what they're doing. They want everyone to participate - so what this boils down to is control. Who has control in OP's house? OP isn't refusing to allow her ILs to pray, she's just asserting and maintaining boundaries in her own home.

I don't see tolerance and respect being modeled here, what I see being modeled is that OP's beliefs/traditions are subordinate to her ILs in her own home. Having dealt with boundary issues in my own family and in my ILs, that's not something I'm willing to let be modeled for my kids. Just because you have a guest in your home doesn't mean the guest is always right or has to be accomodated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up atheist, and we never said grace before meal, but I can see where someone who has said it every time before they eat would want to say it no matter where they are eating, especially when they are older and set in their ways. My MIL and FIL are catholic and say this at their house before meals, and I politely bow my head (and grit my teeth), but luckily they don't do this at our house. I can see where it would be irksome, but I say live and let live, it is a small thing really, it just takes 20 seconds and it's not hurting anybody.

Absolutely right on! If this poster can live and let live, then so can OP. Because, OP, is this really the battle where you intend to make your big stand? Is this worth driving off the in-laws over? Not worth it. By lettiing the in-laws say grace when they come, you model tolerance and understanding for your kids. Unless the in-laws are shoving it down your throats by insisting you and the kids say it along with them every time, I don't see the harm. Turning this into a fight only shows your kids a my-way-or-the-highway attitude; is that what you want to model?

I couldn't have said it better.

There is no religious edicting requiring people to say grace before meals - unlike those edicts prohibiting consumption of pork, alcohol, etc. for some groups. If the ILs were really interested in fulfilling what they see as their religious need to say grace, they would be fine praying siliently. However, that's not what they're doing. They want everyone to participate - so what this boils down to is control. Who has control in OP's house? OP isn't refusing to allow her ILs to pray, she's just asserting and maintaining boundaries in her own home.

I don't see tolerance and respect being modeled here, what I see being modeled is that OP's beliefs/traditions are subordinate to her ILs in her own home. Having dealt with boundary issues in my own family and in my ILs, that's not something I'm willing to let be modeled for my kids. Just because you have a guest in your home doesn't mean the guest is always right or has to be accomodated.

I completely agree, and I think part of the problem here is that many posters see this as a "one time" thing that OP has to deal with. If OP is an atheist (as she's stated), she deals with this every. damn. day.

[Anonymous]

Tis sounds so familiar.

[Anonymous]

FWIW, we don't say grace before meals, don't go to church, were once practicing Carholics, all kids baptized. We have some VERY religious family members who do all of the above. When they eat at our house they now their heads for a moment and say a silent grace (you would never know) we wait respectfully and then begin our meal. That's how it should be. No one should be forced to do anything IMO.

[Anonymous]

Why is it that religion brings out the worst in these discussions? What if the ILs were racist and not religious? Would it be permissible to allow them to spew that line of disagreeable thinking in the OP's home? I wonder how many of the PPs who preached to the OP that she should be tolerant of ILs who treat her like shit would stand for something like that?