If your significant other is a partner at a big law firm, what time does he/she get home usually?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the ladies know what they are getting into from the get-go. In fact, I am dealing with a vendor and this young girl is engaged to an attorney. She leaves meetings with a to-do list of errands for him -- pick up dry cleaning, run to bank, post office, etc. In the days that they were dating, etc. she was already doing his laundry, and baiting him with the benefits of her skills to help him out. When I asked her why she does this, she said frankly that he is really busy at this job and makes a lot more than her. Unfortunately, for these young ladies, you make your bed early this way and you shall lay in it forever, until he finds that young associate more enthralling than you !

So all biglaw spouses are eager slaves to their partners and all the biglaw partners hook up with young associates? And in the non biglaw sector this never happens? Your post is ridiculous. But I'm sorry it happened to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And also, what kind of involvement with the kids?

My spouse gets home between 8:30 and 10 most nights. Does not help in mornings with kids but sleeps in so he can be productive at work. Helps out at least 1 day per weekend -- other one is usually spent at office. Trying to gauge if this is the norm.

How senior is he, OP? If he just made partner, he is getting tons of admin crap dumped on him. It should trail off in a few years.

I also think you should ask him what he expects in terms of additional commitments going forward.

Too many people think once you make partner it is a cakewalk, but that isn't the case. How radically have his hours increased since he was an associate? Also, does he have a major matter that could be causing the uptick? My DH has been ridiculously busy for the last year, but the case is going to trial soon. His hours have been like nothing we've ever seen in 15 years of dong this (we're both large firm lawyers). It will end. We both just keep saying that. In a way it has brougth us closer together because we treaure every second we get right now.

Good luck to you and your DH, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:21:02 again. Somehow finding time for each other has never been much of a problem.

Maybe b/c I'm a late night person. So we usually get an hour together most nights. We both probably forgo sleep more than others, we will stay up till 12 or 1 Friday or Saturday night (but never both). We try to go on a date 2-3 weekends a month, but some months we don't even get one in.

I guess when I was working for a fifth the pay (he does now) and coming home at 10pm and we didn't have kids we probably saw each other less than we do now. Then I was so tired and cranky I didn't want to be social, now we're looking forward to each other and we have our own routines for relaxing together.

We usually go on one week long vacation every 2-3 years without the kids, (we say we should do it every year but we usually go on a family trip instead) and we try to get 2 additional weekend trips in per year, even if the kids are with us but stay in Grandma's hotel room instead of ours.

We spring for suites when possible when we travel as a family so we have our time together in the evening after the kids go to sleep.

Maybe since we've never been the kind of people to be home at 6pm (even before kids and big-law) it just seems natural.

You're the sahm pp, right? I think that must help a lot with the balance. Staying at home is practically a requirement for this kind of arrangement - or at any rate, the wife can't have any sort of really demanding job. Her job will always come second.

[Anonymous]

Just because your spouse works more conventional hours doesn't mean that they're more helpful or devoted to their family. I am a huge believer in quality time and making the most of the time you have as a family unit. My husband leaves for work at 8:30 am and is almost always home by 6:30 pm. But it's like pulling teeth to get him to engage with the kids - or me. He says he needs time to unwind after work and spends the first 30 minutes or so at home checking e-mail, drinking a beer, and changing clothes before coming upstairs. By that time the kids are almost done with dinner and ready for bed. On the best night he'll read to them before bedtime, but most of the time he gives them a hug and kiss before bed and then goes to watch TV. On the weekends, he sleeps in, does some housework, and proceeds to start drinking his beer(s) at around 3 - 4 PM. He complains about having to do anything with the kids - birthday parties, soccer games, swim class. He's too tired and busy to do those things, he says. He's not terribly ambitious and barely makes six figures. I work full time, am the breadwinner (I make more than DH), and still do a majority of the childcare.

All of which is to say, don't slam OP's lifestyle. There are most certainly trade offs, but I'd take three or four hours of my husband's time a week if he were truly engaged with the kids and me than what we have now where he is physically present but completely checked out. I feel like my husband is way more of an absentee parent and spouse than most of the women posting about their husbands in big law and their insane schedules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing I feel that some of the more critizing posters are missing about having a spouse in these jobs and saying how important family time is etc, is that several of us are able to be home with our children because of our spouse's income. My kids get me all day everyday, they get my husband every morning (and I get his help) and we spend most weekends together. Yes he misses dinner with the kids, but he and I normally eat together. There are plenty of trade offs in life, but if you're argument against having a spouse in these jobs is not spending quality time, then remember that my kids get their mother (who is thrilled to be able to) home with them, and we don't need to rush around every morning, put them in day care and then race home for the magical family dinner. Don't get me wrong - that is very important, but I feel lucky to be able to give them my time and we get lots and lots of time as a family AND as a couple - we make it a priority AND I think his firm is a tad more family friendly, so maybe that helps.

Sorry, but you are missing the point. We are talking about the difference between a spouse working constant extreme hours or more conventional hours. No parameters on whether or not there is a SAHM.

I disagree completely that SAH plays no role in this disucssion. I think the crazy hour work situations can go from unacceptable to acceptable depending on whether there's a SAHP. At least it did in our house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just because your spouse works more conventional hours doesn't mean that they're more helpful or devoted to their family. I am a huge believer in quality time and making the most of the time you have as a family unit. My husband leaves for work at 8:30 am and is almost always home by 6:30 pm. But it's like pulling teeth to get him to engage with the kids - or me. He says he needs time to unwind after work and spends the first 30 minutes or so at home checking e-mail, drinking a beer, and changing clothes before coming upstairs. By that time the kids are almost done with dinner and ready for bed. On the best night he'll read to them before bedtime, but most of the time he gives them a hug and kiss before bed and then goes to watch TV. On the weekends, he sleeps in, does some housework, and proceeds to start drinking his beer(s) at around 3 - 4 PM. He complains about having to do anything with the kids - birthday parties, soccer games, swim class. He's too tired and busy to do those things, he says. He's not terribly ambitious and barely makes six figures. I work full time, am the breadwinner (I make more than DH), and still do a majority of the childcare.

All of which is to say, don't slam OP's lifestyle. There are most certainly trade offs, but I'd take three or four hours of my husband's time a week if he were truly engaged with the kids and me than what we have now where he is physically present but completely checked out. I feel like my husband is way more of an absentee parent and spouse than most of the women posting about their husbands in big law and their insane schedules.

I've found this to be true as well. Unfortunately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because your spouse works more conventional hours doesn't mean that they're more helpful or devoted to their family. I am a huge believer in quality time and making the most of the time you have as a family unit. My husband leaves for work at 8:30 am and is almost always home by 6:30 pm. But it's like pulling teeth to get him to engage with the kids - or me. He says he needs time to unwind after work and spends the first 30 minutes or so at home checking e-mail, drinking a beer, and changing clothes before coming upstairs. By that time the kids are almost done with dinner and ready for bed. On the best night he'll read to them before bedtime, but most of the time he gives them a hug and kiss before bed and then goes to watch TV. On the weekends, he sleeps in, does some housework, and proceeds to start drinking his beer(s) at around 3 - 4 PM. He complains about having to do anything with the kids - birthday parties, soccer games, swim class. He's too tired and busy to do those things, he says. He's not terribly ambitious and barely makes six figures. I work full time, am the breadwinner (I make more than DH), and still do a majority of the childcare.

All of which is to say, don't slam OP's lifestyle. There are most certainly trade offs, but I'd take three or four hours of my husband's time a week if he were truly engaged with the kids and me than what we have now where he is physically present but completely checked out. I feel like my husband is way more of an absentee parent and spouse than most of the women posting about their husbands in big law and their insane schedules.

I've found this to be true as well. Unfortunately.

Associate here.

I actually agree with this. I think that a LOT of the criticism came in response to the OP's spouse. He seems like a very checked out father. Law is a start late stay late profession. Even as an associate, I come in at 9.30 and no partner is EVER there before me. He should be able to see his kids in the morning. The fact that he "sleeps in" so that he can be fresh for work makes no sense.

However, I think most a lot of women on this thread have found a good balance. DH does mornings, they do the rest of the time. That sounds fair and good for the kids to me. But that's different to him doing NOTHING. That's also different to bragging about fancy vacations.

[Anonymous]

Is it possible that people who don't spend time with their families do so as a matter of personal choice? There are spouses who regardless of their occupations spend a significant amount of time away from their families. It can be boys night out, girls night out, the annual golf trip, season tickets to any number of local sports teams. My point is that there are many ways to avoid being at home if that's what an individual desires. Also, a person can be home, but if they are disengaged from their family they might as well be gone. It's not the job it's the choices people make in their relationships.

[Anonymous]

My family rarely eats dinner as a "whole unit" because between myself and DH working two jobs to barely make ends meet- we have to give up some family time. If our kids grow up and turn out ok - then is it I'm that we chose this?
Really, stop judging! Kids with both parents home and having dinner every night is ideal but it ain't always gonna happen. Why are you condemning the ones who do it at a high HHI and not others ......

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just because your spouse works more conventional hours doesn't mean that they're more helpful or devoted to their family. I am a huge believer in quality time and making the most of the time you have as a family unit. My husband leaves for work at 8:30 am and is almost always home by 6:30 pm. But it's like pulling teeth to get him to engage with the kids - or me. He says he needs time to unwind after work and spends the first 30 minutes or so at home checking e-mail, drinking a beer, and changing clothes before coming upstairs. By that time the kids are almost done with dinner and ready for bed. On the best night he'll read to them before bedtime, but most of the time he gives them a hug and kiss before bed and then goes to watch TV. On the weekends, he sleeps in, does some housework, and proceeds to start drinking his beer(s) at around 3 - 4 PM. He complains about having to do anything with the kids - birthday parties, soccer games, swim class. He's too tired and busy to do those things, he says. He's not terribly ambitious and barely makes six figures. I work full time, am the breadwinner (I make more than DH), and still do a majority of the childcare.

All of which is to say, don't slam OP's lifestyle. There are most certainly trade offs, but I'd take three or four hours of my husband's time a week if he were truly engaged with the kids and me than what we have now where he is physically present but completely checked out. I feel like my husband is way more of an absentee parent and spouse than most of the women posting about their husbands in big law and their insane schedules.

No, but a spouse who chooses a slower-paced career is often a person who is more focused on family.

My DH, a teacher, is home by 4PM and fully engages with the kids all the time. He has no interest in TV or surfing the Internet and spends his time at home cooking, supervising homework, playing music with our son, playing chess with our daughter, and so on.

I am not a believer in "quality time," especially as the kids get older. When my son gets home from middle school in the afternoon, he wants to talk *right then and there* about what's in his head and heart. If we are not around, he is not going to revisit those things at 9PM for our convenience.

Life is what happens while you're doing other stuff.

[Anonymous]

^^^PP here with the teacher-DH. I slowed down my career when the kids were born, not because I had to (DH has a full grip on our home life), but because I didn't want to miss out myself. The idea of DH doing it all while I brought home the bacon held/holds NO appeal for me.

Because of these choices, our income is very middling for the DC area, but we are good with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because your spouse works more conventional hours doesn't mean that they're more helpful or devoted to their family. I am a huge believer in quality time and making the most of the time you have as a family unit. My husband leaves for work at 8:30 am and is almost always home by 6:30 pm. But it's like pulling teeth to get him to engage with the kids - or me. He says he needs time to unwind after work and spends the first 30 minutes or so at home checking e-mail, drinking a beer, and changing clothes before coming upstairs. By that time the kids are almost done with dinner and ready for bed. On the best night he'll read to them before bedtime, but most of the time he gives them a hug and kiss before bed and then goes to watch TV. On the weekends, he sleeps in, does some housework, and proceeds to start drinking his beer(s) at around 3 - 4 PM. He complains about having to do anything with the kids - birthday parties, soccer games, swim class. He's too tired and busy to do those things, he says. He's not terribly ambitious and barely makes six figures. I work full time, am the breadwinner (I make more than DH), and still do a majority of the childcare.

All of which is to say, don't slam OP's lifestyle. There are most certainly trade offs, but I'd take three or four hours of my husband's time a week if he were truly engaged with the kids and me than what we have now where he is physically present but completely checked out. I feel like my husband is way more of an absentee parent and spouse than most of the women posting about their husbands in big law and their insane schedules.

No, but a spouse who chooses a slower-paced career is often a person who is more focused on family.
My DH, a teacher, is home by 4PM and fully engages with the kids all the time. He has no interest in TV or surfing the Internet and spends his time at home cooking, supervising homework, playing music with our son, playing chess with our daughter, and so on.

I am not a believer in "quality time," especially as the kids get older. When my son gets home from middle school in the afternoon, he wants to talk *right then and there* about what's in his head and heart. If we are not around, he is not going to revisit those things at 9PM for our convenience.

Life is what happens while you're doing other stuff.

Not necessarily, PP. Which was my point. It's not the career that's as critical as what the parent does with their time off. You can have a parent home by 4 PM everyday and still not have an attentive parent. It would be nice to think that slower paced career = more available engaged parent, but it's not that simple. And just because you have a few hours with your kids a week, doesn't mean those aren't quality, engaged periods of time where the kids get undivided attention from parents. It's what you make of those hours every week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because your spouse works more conventional hours doesn't mean that they're more helpful or devoted to their family. I am a huge believer in quality time and making the most of the time you have as a family unit. My husband leaves for work at 8:30 am and is almost always home by 6:30 pm. But it's like pulling teeth to get him to engage with the kids - or me. He says he needs time to unwind after work and spends the first 30 minutes or so at home checking e-mail, drinking a beer, and changing clothes before coming upstairs. By that time the kids are almost done with dinner and ready for bed. On the best night he'll read to them before bedtime, but most of the time he gives them a hug and kiss before bed and then goes to watch TV. On the weekends, he sleeps in, does some housework, and proceeds to start drinking his beer(s) at around 3 - 4 PM. He complains about having to do anything with the kids - birthday parties, soccer games, swim class. He's too tired and busy to do those things, he says. He's not terribly ambitious and barely makes six figures. I work full time, am the breadwinner (I make more than DH), and still do a majority of the childcare.

All of which is to say, don't slam OP's lifestyle. There are most certainly trade offs, but I'd take three or four hours of my husband's time a week if he were truly engaged with the kids and me than what we have now where he is physically present but completely checked out. I feel like my husband is way more of an absentee parent and spouse than most of the women posting about their husbands in big law and their insane schedules.

No, but a spouse who chooses a slower-paced career is often a person who is more focused on family.
My DH, a teacher, is home by 4PM and fully engages with the kids all the time. He has no interest in TV or surfing the Internet and spends his time at home cooking, supervising homework, playing music with our son, playing chess with our daughter, and so on.

I am not a believer in "quality time," especially as the kids get older. When my son gets home from middle school in the afternoon, he wants to talk *right then and there* about what's in his head and heart. If we are not around, he is not going to revisit those things at 9PM for our convenience.

Life is what happens while you're doing other stuff.

Not necessarily, PP. Which was my point. It's not the career that's as critical as what the parent does with their time off. You can have a parent home by 4 PM everyday and still not have an attentive parent. It would be nice to think that slower paced career = more available engaged parent, but it's not that simple. And just because you have a few hours with your kids a week, doesn't mean those aren't quality, engaged periods of time where the kids get undivided attention from parents. It's what you make of those hours every week.

Yes, correct - not necessarily. But as I said, *often* the spouse who chooses a slower-paced career is more interested in home life. Often.

We can agree to disagree about "quality time." I think children, especially older children, need time, lots and lots of time. Not quality time. Quantities of time.

It sounds like your DH would be a sh*tty, inattentive father no matter what kind of job he had, so his poor parenting is irrelevant in that this conversation is about the hours a parent can and does spend with his children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because your spouse works more conventional hours doesn't mean that they're more helpful or devoted to their family. I am a huge believer in quality time and making the most of the time you have as a family unit. My husband leaves for work at 8:30 am and is almost always home by 6:30 pm. But it's like pulling teeth to get him to engage with the kids - or me. He says he needs time to unwind after work and spends the first 30 minutes or so at home checking e-mail, drinking a beer, and changing clothes before coming upstairs. By that time the kids are almost done with dinner and ready for bed. On the best night he'll read to them before bedtime, but most of the time he gives them a hug and kiss before bed and then goes to watch TV. On the weekends, he sleeps in, does some housework, and proceeds to start drinking his beer(s) at around 3 - 4 PM. He complains about having to do anything with the kids - birthday parties, soccer games, swim class. He's too tired and busy to do those things, he says. He's not terribly ambitious and barely makes six figures. I work full time, am the breadwinner (I make more than DH), and still do a majority of the childcare.

All of which is to say, don't slam OP's lifestyle. There are most certainly trade offs, but I'd take three or four hours of my husband's time a week if he were truly engaged with the kids and me than what we have now where he is physically present but completely checked out. I feel like my husband is way more of an absentee parent and spouse than most of the women posting about their husbands in big law and their insane schedules.

No, but a spouse who chooses a slower-paced career is often a person who is more focused on family.
My DH, a teacher, is home by 4PM and fully engages with the kids all the time. He has no interest in TV or surfing the Internet and spends his time at home cooking, supervising homework, playing music with our son, playing chess with our daughter, and so on.

I am not a believer in "quality time," especially as the kids get older. When my son gets home from middle school in the afternoon, he wants to talk *right then and there* about what's in his head and heart. If we are not around, he is not going to revisit those things at 9PM for our convenience.

Life is what happens while you're doing other stuff.

Not necessarily, PP. Which was my point. It's not the career that's as critical as what the parent does with their time off. You can have a parent home by 4 PM everyday and still not have an attentive parent. It would be nice to think that slower paced career = more available engaged parent, but it's not that simple. And just because you have a few hours with your kids a week, doesn't mean those aren't quality, engaged periods of time where the kids get undivided attention from parents. It's what you make of those hours every week.

But the career IS critical. At a certain point, it becomes an issue of pure mathematics. If your career only allows you to be with you 10-15 hours of leisure time a week, it is going to be very difficult to meaningfully contribute. You may spend an hour here and there with the kids, but what about some alone time for yourself, time for your marriage, time to do any household tasks? It becomes mathematically impossible. And your wife not only has to accept picking up the slack, but also going without a lot of adult companionship. Another factor is the stress and unpredictability - you can never guess when a matter will heat up, so even if the partner spouse agrees to a vacation or to come to an important family appointment, he may have to bail. Basically, everything will revolve around his job, and the family only gets leftovers.

I do believe that there are some families this works for - where the wife has no serious career goals, does not need tons of timd with her husband, and finds staying home and the money rewarding, and the husband does manage just enough time home so the kids know him. But they aren't in the majority. And let me tell you, it is very hard to see a dad working 80 hrs a wek with a newborn. It really does make you wonder.

[Anonymous]

I do believe that there are some families this works for - where the wife has no serious career goals, does not need tons of timd with her husband, and finds staying home and the money rewarding, and the husband does manage just enough time home so the kids know him. But they aren't in the majority. And let me tell you, it is very hard to see a dad working 80 hrs a wek with a newborn. It really does make you wonder.

OMG. Really? How's the view from up there? Just do what you think is best for your family and teacher husband or whatever. We'll do what we think is best with our law degrees. But please, don't waste the brain power you have "wondering" about my family and how we make it work. We're doing more than fine. I promise you.