Kansas Rep. Pete DeGraaf: Being impregnated during a rape is just like getting a flat tire

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am one of the PPs who does not want to fund elective abortions, including in rape cases. Other posters seem to assume that I have no experience with these issues, or even that I am not in favor of welfare provisions. To the contrary, I have such string feelings about this issue because my sister is the product of a rape. We learned this when we were adults. Our parents are happily married, and my sister has a terrific relationship with the rest of our family. My mother does not talk with us about the rape much at all (it was over 40 years ago), but she did not let it, or having my sister ruin her life. Had you asked her at the time, she might not have imagined how that horrific incident would result in one if the strongest and most fulfilling relationships of her life. In this and other ways, I think that people are much more adaptable and strong than they think they are in times of crisis. And for what it's worth, I'm a pretty far left liberal democrat.

Goody for her. Goody for you. (Doubt it's true.) But even if it is, so what? That was your mom's experience. How 'bout letting everyone choose for themselves if they want to become a lifelong parent (even if you adopt the child out, you're a lifelong parent)? Why do you think your mother's choice is everyone's choice? You still piss me off.

[Anonymous]

I agree. If it worked for your family great. But don't force people to have a child they don't want. Especially from a rape. Each person should have a choice about their future and whether they want to bring a child into this world. That is why it's " pro choice".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am one of the PPs who does not want to fund elective abortions, including in rape cases. Other posters seem to assume that I have no experience with these issues, or even that I am not in favor of welfare provisions. To the contrary, I have such string feelings about this issue because my sister is the product of a rape. We learned this when we were adults. Our parents are happily married, and my sister has a terrific relationship with the rest of our family. My mother does not talk with us about the rape much at all (it was over 40 years ago), but she did not let it, or having my sister ruin her life. Had you asked her at the time, she might not have imagined how that horrific incident would result in one if the strongest and most fulfilling relationships of her life. In this and other ways, I think that people are much more adaptable and strong than they think they are in times of crisis. And for what it's worth, I'm a pretty far left liberal democrat.

Goody for her. Goody for you. (Doubt it's true.) But even if it is, so what? That was your mom's experience. How 'bout letting everyone choose for themselves if they want to become a lifelong parent (even if you adopt the child out, you're a lifelong parent)? Why do you think your mother's choice is everyone's choice? You still piss me off.

There is no "goody" about it. I am explaining why I feel so strongly about this particular issue. I have said repeatedly that I do not want for abortion to be illegal. I do not want to make that choice for others. I have seen very close up, though, that having a child born of rape does not necessarily result in a ruined life for the mother. And it did result in my sister's life. So I don't view this as balancing a mother's ruined life against the life of a fetus. I view it as the mother's life, which is undoubtedly traumatized by the rape and aftermath (but not necessarily ruined) against the life of the baby. Like everyone, I only have my own experience to draw upon. I do believe, though, that when my mom was young she believed that her life would be ruined by having my sister, but in the fullness of time, that turned out not to be the case at all. There was luck involved with that as there is with everything, but it is one of the things that has made me realized that most of us have more resilience than we think, and that we can adapt and create full and satisfying lives in the wake of horrible events.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:.... because my sister is the product of a rape. We learned this when we were adults. Our parents are happily married.

the world is not made up of men willing to accept a rapists child, or a wife that has been raped

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am one of the PPs who does not want to fund elective abortions, including in rape cases. Other posters seem to assume that I have no experience with these issues, or even that I am not in favor of welfare provisions. To the contrary, I have such string feelings about this issue because my sister is the product of a rape. We learned this when we were adults. Our parents are happily married, and my sister has a terrific relationship with the rest of our family. My mother does not talk with us about the rape much at all (it was over 40 years ago), but she did not let it, or having my sister ruin her life. Had you asked her at the time, she might not have imagined how that horrific incident would result in one if the strongest and most fulfilling relationships of her life. In this and other ways, I think that people are much more adaptable and strong than they think they are in times of crisis. And for what it's worth, I'm a pretty far left liberal democrat.

Goody for her. Goody for you. (Doubt it's true.) But even if it is, so what? That was your mom's experience. How 'bout letting everyone choose for themselves if they want to become a lifelong parent (even if you adopt the child out, you're a lifelong parent)? Why do you think your mother's choice is everyone's choice? You still piss me off.

There is no "goody" about it. I am explaining why I feel so strongly about this particular issue. I have said repeatedly that I do not want for abortion to be illegal. I do not want to make that choice for others. I have seen very close up, though, that having a child born of rape does not necessarily result in a ruined life for the mother. And it did result in my sister's life. So I don't view this as balancing a mother's ruined life against the life of a fetus. I view it as the mother's life, which is undoubtedly traumatized by the rape and aftermath (but not necessarily ruined) against the life of the baby. Like everyone, I only have my own experience to draw upon. I do believe, though, that when my mom was young she believed that her life would be ruined by having my sister, but in the fullness of time, that turned out not to be the case at all. There was luck involved with that as there is with everything, but it is one of the things that has made me realized that most of us have more resilience than we think, and that we can adapt and create full and satisfying lives in the wake of horrible events.

Well then I don't think you understand what the original topic is. Kansas wants to forbid private insurers from including abortion services in their policies. This is nothing about "funding" elective abortions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am one of the PPs who does not want to fund elective abortions, including in rape cases. Other posters seem to assume that I have no experience with these issues, or even that I am not in favor of welfare provisions. To the contrary, I have such string feelings about this issue because my sister is the product of a rape. We learned this when we were adults. Our parents are happily married, and my sister has a terrific relationship with the rest of our family. My mother does not talk with us about the rape much at all (it was over 40 years ago), but she did not let it, or having my sister ruin her life. Had you asked her at the time, she might not have imagined how that horrific incident would result in one if the strongest and most fulfilling relationships of her life. In this and other ways, I think that people are much more adaptable and strong than they think they are in times of crisis. And for what it's worth, I'm a pretty far left liberal democrat.

Goody for her. Goody for you. (Doubt it's true.) But even if it is, so what? That was your mom's experience. How 'bout letting everyone choose for themselves if they want to become a lifelong parent (even if you adopt the child out, you're a lifelong parent)? Why do you think your mother's choice is everyone's choice? You still piss me off.

There is no "goody" about it. I am explaining why I feel so strongly about this particular issue. I have said repeatedly that I do not want for abortion to be illegal. I do not want to make that choice for others. I have seen very close up, though, that having a child born of rape does not necessarily result in a ruined life for the mother. And it did result in my sister's life. So I don't view this as balancing a mother's ruined life against the life of a fetus. I view it as the mother's life, which is undoubtedly traumatized by the rape and aftermath (but not necessarily ruined) against the life of the baby. Like everyone, I only have my own experience to draw upon. I do believe, though, that when my mom was young she believed that her life would be ruined by having my sister, but in the fullness of time, that turned out not to be the case at all. There was luck involved with that as there is with everything, but it is one of the things that has made me realized that most of us have more resilience than we think, and that we can adapt and create full and satisfying lives in the wake of horrible events.

Well then I don't think you understand what the original topic is. Kansas wants to forbid private insurers from including abortion services in their policies. This is nothing about "funding" elective abortions.

Funding via insurance premiums. Not a lack of understanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am one of the PPs who does not want to fund elective abortions, including in rape cases. Other posters seem to assume that I have no experience with these issues, or even that I am not in favor of welfare provisions. To the contrary, I have such string feelings about this issue because my sister is the product of a rape. We learned this when we were adults. Our parents are happily married, and my sister has a terrific relationship with the rest of our family. My mother does not talk with us about the rape much at all (it was over 40 years ago), but she did not let it, or having my sister ruin her life. Had you asked her at the time, she might not have imagined how that horrific incident would result in one if the strongest and most fulfilling relationships of her life. In this and other ways, I think that people are much more adaptable and strong than they think they are in times of crisis. And for what it's worth, I'm a pretty far left liberal democrat.

Goody for her. Goody for you. (Doubt it's true.) But even if it is, so what? That was your mom's experience. How 'bout letting everyone choose for themselves if they want to become a lifelong parent (even if you adopt the child out, you're a lifelong parent)? Why do you think your mother's choice is everyone's choice? You still piss me off.

There is no "goody" about it. I am explaining why I feel so strongly about this particular issue. I have said repeatedly that I do not want for abortion to be illegal. I do not want to make that choice for others. I have seen very close up, though, that having a child born of rape does not necessarily result in a ruined life for the mother. And it did result in my sister's life. So I don't view this as balancing a mother's ruined life against the life of a fetus. I view it as the mother's life, which is undoubtedly traumatized by the rape and aftermath (but not necessarily ruined) against the life of the baby. Like everyone, I only have my own experience to draw upon. I do believe, though, that when my mom was young she believed that her life would be ruined by having my sister, but in the fullness of time, that turned out not to be the case at all. There was luck involved with that as there is with everything, but it is one of the things that has made me realized that most of us have more resilience than we think, and that we can adapt and create full and satisfying lives in the wake of horrible events.

But everyone's situation is different. Maybe if your mom was young, in school and single it would not have worked out like this and she would have broken under the whole situation or had an abotion.
It's great your family was able to deal with all this and make it an happy outcome. But that doesn't mean it's always the case. I think I would have a hard time after being raped and I would not want to keep a baby that was made during this rape. I don't think I would be strong enough to deal with the situation for 9 months while carrying the baby.
And...where would that baby go? In case the mother wouldn't wanna keep it, which is totally understandably, it still need to go somewhere. And the special parenting forum shows some problems of adopted rape babies.
I don't think you're thinking it through to the end. You're a rare case, most cases don't work out like that. Marriages and families can fall apart after a rape, the last thing the family should have to deal with it a baby from the person who did that to the woman.
I don't understand why you can't let people decide what the right thing is for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am one of the PPs who does not want to fund elective abortions, including in rape cases. Other posters seem to assume that I have no experience with these issues, or even that I am not in favor of welfare provisions. To the contrary, I have such string feelings about this issue because my sister is the product of a rape. We learned this when we were adults. Our parents are happily married, and my sister has a terrific relationship with the rest of our family. My mother does not talk with us about the rape much at all (it was over 40 years ago), but she did not let it, or having my sister ruin her life. Had you asked her at the time, she might not have imagined how that horrific incident would result in one if the strongest and most fulfilling relationships of her life. In this and other ways, I think that people are much more adaptable and strong than they think they are in times of crisis. And for what it's worth, I'm a pretty far left liberal democrat.

Goody for her. Goody for you. (Doubt it's true.) But even if it is, so what? That was your mom's experience. How 'bout letting everyone choose for themselves if they want to become a lifelong parent (even if you adopt the child out, you're a lifelong parent)? Why do you think your mother's choice is everyone's choice? You still piss me off.

There is no "goody" about it. I am explaining why I feel so strongly about this particular issue. I have said repeatedly that I do not want for abortion to be illegal. I do not want to make that choice for others. I have seen very close up, though, that having a child born of rape does not necessarily result in a ruined life for the mother. And it did result in my sister's life. So I don't view this as balancing a mother's ruined life against the life of a fetus. I view it as the mother's life, which is undoubtedly traumatized by the rape and aftermath (but not necessarily ruined) against the life of the baby. Like everyone, I only have my own experience to draw upon. I do believe, though, that when my mom was young she believed that her life would be ruined by having my sister, but in the fullness of time, that turned out not to be the case at all. There was luck involved with that as there is with everything, but it is one of the things that has made me realized that most of us have more resilience than we think, and that we can adapt and create full and satisfying lives in the wake of horrible events.

Well then I don't think you understand what the original topic is. Kansas wants to forbid private insurers from including abortion services in their policies. This is nothing about "funding" elective abortions.

Funding via insurance premiums. Not a lack of understanding.

That's crazy. These are private individuals paying premiums to a private company for insurance. How do you feel you have the right to meddle in that, any more than you have the right to meddle in someone's right to pay cash for the abortion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am one of the PPs who does not want to fund elective abortions, including in rape cases. Other posters seem to assume that I have no experience with these issues, or even that I am not in favor of welfare provisions. To the contrary, I have such string feelings about this issue because my sister is the product of a rape. We learned this when we were adults. Our parents are happily married, and my sister has a terrific relationship with the rest of our family. My mother does not talk with us about the rape much at all (it was over 40 years ago), but she did not let it, or having my sister ruin her life. Had you asked her at the time, she might not have imagined how that horrific incident would result in one if the strongest and most fulfilling relationships of her life. In this and other ways, I think that people are much more adaptable and strong than they think they are in times of crisis. And for what it's worth, I'm a pretty far left liberal democrat.

Goody for her. Goody for you. (Doubt it's true.) But even if it is, so what? That was your mom's experience. How 'bout letting everyone choose for themselves if they want to become a lifelong parent (even if you adopt the child out, you're a lifelong parent)? Why do you think your mother's choice is everyone's choice? You still piss me off.

There is no "goody" about it. I am explaining why I feel so strongly about this particular issue. I have said repeatedly that I do not want for abortion to be illegal. I do not want to make that choice for others. I have seen very close up, though, that having a child born of rape does not necessarily result in a ruined life for the mother. And it did result in my sister's life. So I don't view this as balancing a mother's ruined life against the life of a fetus. I view it as the mother's life, which is undoubtedly traumatized by the rape and aftermath (but not necessarily ruined) against the life of the baby. Like everyone, I only have my own experience to draw upon. I do believe, though, that when my mom was young she believed that her life would be ruined by having my sister, but in the fullness of time, that turned out not to be the case at all. There was luck involved with that as there is with everything, but it is one of the things that has made me realized that most of us have more resilience than we think, and that we can adapt and create full and satisfying lives in the wake of horrible events.

Well then I don't think you understand what the original topic is. Kansas wants to forbid private insurers from including abortion services in their policies. This is nothing about "funding" elective abortions.

Funding via insurance premiums. Not a lack of understanding.

That's crazy. These are private individuals paying premiums to a private company for insurance. How do you feel you have the right to meddle in that, any more than you have the right to meddle in someone's right to pay cash for the abortion?

If I understand correctly, though, insurance providers can offer separate riders for this procedure. It's not that it will become an uninsurable procedure. So everyone who wants to buy insurance covering abortions because they believe it should be covered can buy a rider. Is that understanding wrong? Also, there's nothing about prohibiting or limiting abortions, is there? Just about whether they can be covered in the general insurance policy (as opposed to riders). People keep responding as though abortion is be proposed to be outlawed or made uninsurable. Neither, though, seems to be the case. I thought this was about whether premiums paid under general insurance policies may be used to cover abortion. Is it broader than that?

[Anonymous]

So called "pro-lifers" are such hypocrits. How are you people so pro-life exactly?

You absolutely want to force other people to bring into the world children they can't or won't take care of, yet when faced with the grim odds these children are going to face in life, you find millions of reasons from your self-righteous moral pulpit to cut Head Start, cut off food stamps, cut school lunches, cut the minimum wage, cut Pell Grants, so that these kids will grow up in the least auspicious conditions possible.

If you want these children to be born, put your money were your mouth is. Support them to the fullest extent with your taxes so that they have the standard of living you'd want for your children. If the child has terrible health or developmental problems, your taxes should pay for their care, throughout their life if necessary. THAT's being pro-life. Having second thoughts? And if you decide to have lots of children because life is sacred and to raise them with not much more than your love and an occasional meal because you can't afford it, realize that some of us refuse to do that. Some of us support abortion rights precisely for this reason: that the child's welfare comes first and foremost, and that bringing into the world a child who is going to suffer because of your decision is thoroughly irresponsible.

[Anonymous]

I understand the insurance argument. I still think it's wrong and stigmatizes and shames rape victims. It's none of your fucking business. It's wrong to grant abortion coverage to one person and deny it to a rape victim.

I will repeat this one more time: if you are convinced abortion is the killing of a person, try to get an amendment passed that reflects that. Your opinion does not match current legislation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I understand the insurance argument. I still think it's wrong and stigmatizes and shames rape victims. It's none of your fucking business. It's wrong to grant abortion coverage to one person and deny it to a rape victim.

I will repeat this one more time: if you are convinced abortion is the killing of a person, try to get an amendment passed that reflects that. Your opinion does not match current legislation.

Well I do not understand the insurance argument. Some of these same people are fat, obese, smokers or have a history in their family for heart problems. I could argue that I do not want my insurance premiums to pay towards their diabetes treatment, heart surgery, cancer treatment, high blood pressure medications etc. It's wrong for these cold-hearted people to try to impose their will on others. How about making overweight people or smokers have riders. Hm by walking around cities in this country half the damn population would have to pay that fat girl's rider

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am one of the PPs who does not want to fund elective abortions, including in rape cases. Other posters seem to assume that I have no experience with these issues, or even that I am not in favor of welfare provisions. To the contrary, I have such string feelings about this issue because my sister is the product of a rape. We learned this when we were adults. Our parents are happily married, and my sister has a terrific relationship with the rest of our family. My mother does not talk with us about the rape much at all (it was over 40 years ago), but she did not let it, or having my sister ruin her life. Had you asked her at the time, she might not have imagined how that horrific incident would result in one if the strongest and most fulfilling relationships of her life. In this and other ways, I think that people are much more adaptable and strong than they think they are in times of crisis. And for what it's worth, I'm a pretty far left liberal democrat.

Goody for her. Goody for you. (Doubt it's true.) But even if it is, so what? That was your mom's experience. How 'bout letting everyone choose for themselves if they want to become a lifelong parent (even if you adopt the child out, you're a lifelong parent)? Why do you think your mother's choice is everyone's choice? You still piss me off.

There is no "goody" about it. I am explaining why I feel so strongly about this particular issue. I have said repeatedly that I do not want for abortion to be illegal. I do not want to make that choice for others. I have seen very close up, though, that having a child born of rape does not necessarily result in a ruined life for the mother. And it did result in my sister's life. So I don't view this as balancing a mother's ruined life against the life of a fetus. I view it as the mother's life, which is undoubtedly traumatized by the rape and aftermath (but not necessarily ruined) against the life of the baby. Like everyone, I only have my own experience to draw upon. I do believe, though, that when my mom was young she believed that her life would be ruined by having my sister, but in the fullness of time, that turned out not to be the case at all. There was luck involved with that as there is with everything, but it is one of the things that has made me realized that most of us have more resilience than we think, and that we can adapt and create full and satisfying lives in the wake of horrible events.

I wonder how your sister feels being referred to this way - "born of rape", "product of rape," "I believe my mom thought her life was ruined." I see your point. It really is a fantastic way to start life - already behind the eight ball with a traumatized mother and referenced as a "product" of rape. Nice.

[Anonymous]

Oh sure, how about we make all sorts of 'riders' to stigmatize legal medical procedures? Think you'll become mentally ill? Then just buy a 'rider' for mental health coverage. I'm a scientologist and I don't believe in paying for other people's mental health coverage. Want to get your son mutilated...I mean circumcised, or think you might some day if you have a son? Buy a 'rider' for circumcision. I'm not Jewish, I shouldn't have to pay for mutilating your son. Want coverage for IUD insertion or vasectomy or tubes tied? Buy a 'rider' cause, yep, you guessed it, I'm Catholic and don't want to fund other people's birth control. Suffer from a smoking related illness or think you will? Buy a 'rider' cause I'm Mormon and I don't want to fund the byproduct of your sinful lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am one of the PPs who does not want to fund elective abortions, including in rape cases. Other posters seem to assume that I have no experience with these issues, or even that I am not in favor of welfare provisions. To the contrary, I have such string feelings about this issue because my sister is the product of a rape. We learned this when we were adults. Our parents are happily married, and my sister has a terrific relationship with the rest of our family. My mother does not talk with us about the rape much at all (it was over 40 years ago), but she did not let it, or having my sister ruin her life. Had you asked her at the time, she might not have imagined how that horrific incident would result in one if the strongest and most fulfilling relationships of her life. In this and other ways, I think that people are much more adaptable and strong than they think they are in times of crisis. And for what it's worth, I'm a pretty far left liberal democrat.

Goody for her. Goody for you. (Doubt it's true.) But even if it is, so what? That was your mom's experience. How 'bout letting everyone choose for themselves if they want to become a lifelong parent (even if you adopt the child out, you're a lifelong parent)? Why do you think your mother's choice is everyone's choice? You still piss me off.

There is no "goody" about it. I am explaining why I feel so strongly about this particular issue. I have said repeatedly that I do not want for abortion to be illegal. I do not want to make that choice for others. I have seen very close up, though, that having a child born of rape does not necessarily result in a ruined life for the mother. And it did result in my sister's life. So I don't view this as balancing a mother's ruined life against the life of a fetus. I view it as the mother's life, which is undoubtedly traumatized by the rape and aftermath (but not necessarily ruined) against the life of the baby. Like everyone, I only have my own experience to draw upon. I do believe, though, that when my mom was young she believed that her life would be ruined by having my sister, but in the fullness of time, that turned out not to be the case at all. There was luck involved with that as there is with everything, but it is one of the things that has made me realized that most of us have more resilience than we think, and that we can adapt and create full and satisfying lives in the wake of horrible events.

I wonder how your sister feels being referred to this way - "born of rape", "product of rape," "I believe my mom thought her life was ruined." I see your point. It really is a fantastic way to start life - already behind the eight ball with a traumatized mother and referenced as a "product" of rape. Nice.

She's just fine. Happily married with two kids. We have great relationships, with the normal ups and downs. I of course don't refer to her as the "product of rape" in discussion or otherwise. She's just my sister. I use that language here only to emphasize that she is, in fact, the result or product of a rape. She knows it. And she knows she is incredibly loved. And that my mom went through something horrible is kind of my point. She and my sister both turned out just fine. That awful period of life was just that, an awful period that my mom got over and resulted in my sister. It seems as though some of you simply do not wish to accept that anyone could have any experience different from the scenario of an impoverished woman wholly and permanently ruined by rape for some reason wholly unable to put up her child for adoption and unable for the rest of her life to have meaningful relationships. I'm sure it happens a lot. Just like I'm sure that happens a lot if a woman gets pregnant is a non-rape situation where the guy turns out to be an a$$. But I think most people are much, much more resilient than that.