Kansas Rep. Pete DeGraaf: Being impregnated during a rape is just like getting a flat tire

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That is a VERY rare, worst case scenario. Get real.

Even so, it should not happen to even one woman. Unless, of course, it happens to you and then you can tell us how you feel about it then.

[Anonymous]

Oh please, PP. Horrible arguments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll probably get flamed for this but to me I think he just ssaid it wrong. Ok so they banned medical insurance from covering abortions in all cases except to save the life of the mother. But then have a provision for an abortion only policy not just in cases of rape but also unwanted pregnacy

I think that's a bunch of nonsense. An abortion insurance policy? Really?

I haven't had a miscarriage or an abortion, but medically, they can be IDENTICAL and I'm relatively sure that the insurance codes don't differentiate between an abortion that someone gets because she WANTS one and an abortion that someone gets as part of a miscarriage.

But the insurance company has access to the medical records, which would show whether the embryo or fetus was showing a heartbeat or not. If heartbeat then the insurance co would only pay for the abortion IF the woman had filed a police report claiming rape AND if the woman had previously purchased rape abortion insurance.

Call me a crazy radical feminist, but I really don't want my insurance company or some asshole from Kansas making decisions about what I can and can't do with my own body. This kind of law would never be enacted, for example, regarding cancer. If it was a men's issue, abortions would probably come with subscriptions to Sports Illustrated and complimentary cigars.

the point is, that over half the country also wants to consider the other person involved - the unborn baby. we can argue over the fringes, but don't you think they deserve a voice too?

1. Where do you come up with that little nugget of non-truth?
2. You're crazy.
3. You're nuts.
4. Go away.

so if you support the sanctity of human life you are crazy and nuts? got it, thanks.

What about the sanctity of the human life actually at issue, the woman who was raped? Why is it that a blob means more to you than an actual living, breathing human being? Why does she not matter to you? I absolutely support the sanctity and dignity of her human life. Why don't you? Just wondering.

[Anonymous]

If there is an exception for rape cases, I would think that many, many people would simply claim to have been raped, whether or not it were true. I'm not judging people for doing so, as it would seem to be an understandable lie if it allowed her to receive coverage for an abortion that she otherwise feels she cannot afford.

Regarding the life of the mother exception, I think that that's based on medical insurance covering a medical need. As to how a woman because pregnant, I'm not sure why medical insurance coverage needs to take that into account. Rape is a horrific crime, and I would imagine that it could make it very, very emotionally difficult for a woman to be reminded of the rape throughout her pregnancy. Nothing, however, will make her rape disappear, including aborting a child. To me, it's not a question of blaming or punishing the woman, it's a recognition that terrible, terrible things happen to people, and it can be wholly beyond control of the woman raped. Nonetheless, many people believe that abortion is wrong even in the case of rape. And while I cannot, and do not want to, make abortion illegal, I don't believe that we should be required to pay for that right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll probably get flamed for this but to me I think he just ssaid it wrong. Ok so they banned medical insurance from covering abortions in all cases except to save the life of the mother. But then have a provision for an abortion only policy not just in cases of rape but also unwanted pregnacy

I think that's a bunch of nonsense. An abortion insurance policy? Really?

I haven't had a miscarriage or an abortion, but medically, they can be IDENTICAL and I'm relatively sure that the insurance codes don't differentiate between an abortion that someone gets because she WANTS one and an abortion that someone gets as part of a miscarriage.

But the insurance company has access to the medical records, which would show whether the embryo or fetus was showing a heartbeat or not. If heartbeat then the insurance co would only pay for the abortion IF the woman had filed a police report claiming rape AND if the woman had previously purchased rape abortion insurance.

Call me a crazy radical feminist, but I really don't want my insurance company or some asshole from Kansas making decisions about what I can and can't do with my own body. This kind of law would never be enacted, for example, regarding cancer. If it was a men's issue, abortions would probably come with subscriptions to Sports Illustrated and complimentary cigars.

the point is, that over half the country also wants to consider the other person involved - the unborn baby. we can argue over the fringes, but don't you think they deserve a voice too?

1. Where do you come up with that little nugget of non-truth?
2. You're crazy.
3. You're nuts.
4. Go away.

so if you support the sanctity of human life you are crazy and nuts? got it, thanks.

What about the sanctity of the human life actually at issue, the woman who was raped? Why is it that a blob means more to you than an actual living, breathing human being? Why does she not matter to you? I absolutely support the sanctity and dignity of her human life. Why don't you? Just wondering.

Because having the baby will not kill the mother, but it will kill the baby. So weighing the mom's rights against the baby's, it weighs to many of us in the baby's favor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If there is an exception for rape cases, I would think that many, many people would simply claim to have been raped, whether or not it were true. I'm not judging people for doing so, as it would seem to be an understandable lie if it allowed her to receive coverage for an abortion that she otherwise feels she cannot afford.

Regarding the life of the mother exception, I think that that's based on medical insurance covering a medical need. As to how a woman because pregnant, I'm not sure why medical insurance coverage needs to take that into account. Rape is a horrific crime, and I would imagine that it could make it very, very emotionally difficult for a woman to be reminded of the rape throughout her pregnancy. Nothing, however, will make her rape disappear, including aborting a child. To me, it's not a question of blaming or punishing the woman, it's a recognition that terrible, terrible things happen to people, and it can be wholly beyond control of the woman raped. Nonetheless, many people believe that abortion is wrong even in the case of rape. And while I cannot, and do not want to, make abortion illegal, I don't believe that we should be required to pay for that right.

That's how insurance works. If you don't like it, don't buy a policy. What if I don't want to pay for life support for the terminally ill or IVF? it's not a pick and choose program. If you want some of the benefits, pay up. You don't get a say in my medical care. Please see : MY right to privacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If there is an exception for rape cases, I would think that many, many people would simply claim to have been raped, whether or not it were true. I'm not judging people for doing so, as it would seem to be an understandable lie if it allowed her to receive coverage for an abortion that she otherwise feels she cannot afford.

Regarding the life of the mother exception, I think that that's based on medical insurance covering a medical need. As to how a woman because pregnant, I'm not sure why medical insurance coverage needs to take that into account. Rape is a horrific crime, and I would imagine that it could make it very, very emotionally difficult for a woman to be reminded of the rape throughout her pregnancy. Nothing, however, will make her rape disappear, including aborting a child. To me, it's not a question of blaming or punishing the woman, it's a recognition that terrible, terrible things happen to people, and it can be wholly beyond control of the woman raped. Nonetheless, many people believe that abortion is wrong even in the case of rape. And while I cannot, and do not want to, make abortion illegal, I don't believe that we should be required to pay for that right.

Don't have a say in your medical care, but seems that in the future I may not need to pay for it, either through federal money or through insurance premiums. Many many people agree that abortion should be legal, but also believe that nobody should be required to assist in paying for it if it is elective.

That's how insurance works. If you don't like it, don't buy a policy. What if I don't want to pay for life support for the terminally ill or IVF? it's not a pick and choose program. If you want some of the benefits, pay up. You don't get a say in my medical care. Please see : MY right to privacy.

[Anonymous]

Federal money? Elective? Are you high? Please read up on the Hyde and Stupak amendments. There are no federally funded elective abortions. I don't see how you can argue the product of rape is elective, unless you have no soul. There's not even an exception for fatal fetal defect. Read up on matters before you go spouting off about things that aren't true.

I pay my entire premium (not a benefit at my job) and abortion is one of my benefits. It's one I hope to never use. When you start paying my premiums for me, I'll give you a say in the coverage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:LIVID here again. When I was working with the Center for Reproductive Rights, the number I was given was that around 50% of insurance plans cover "elective abortions" and the number is closer to 90% when we start talking about the "therapeutic abortions." My current insurance plan (through my husband's job) covers elective abortions. I know Planned Parenthood takes insurance.

PP. I'm sorry for your loss. I know how much it hurts.

Hi LIVID,

You posted on my thread on the TTC board last summer. I remember in college when we actually went out with signs and stood up against the anti-abortionists. I guess women must have thought they won the fight, because that vein of protestors seems to have gone away while the rights have dwindled. I was always personally pro-choice, but never thought I would personally be faced with the decision that I was faced with last summer. A fatal defect. I was lucky to have discovered it early enough that I had a legal option in Maryland that although insurance wouldn't cover it, was fairly accessible.

What gets me is these moves to force a woman to watch an ultrasound, have a waiting period, listen to propaganda, be unable to receive a legal procedure after a certain week of gestation. None of these things would have changed my mind that the fetus I was carrying would feel undeniable ugly death in utero or after birth all on its own. It was more compassionate to have the procedure. I would have done it if forced into all of these now legal tortures, but frankly, what gives a state the right to force me to look at an ultrasound of most wanted pregnancy that would never be.

I want to go back to helping fight this fight. I never thought I'd find myself at 44 wanting to fight for a woman's right to choose. We had so many more rights in 1990. When some woman gets on the DCUM pulpit and preaches that all fetus should never be aborted, I have posted that I wish upon them the sadness of my last summer and that of a friend of mine several years ago whose much wanted miracle ended up developing a fatal defect around 20 weeks. She had to go to Kansas before Dr. Tiller was killed because locally she could not have a procedure legally.

If I had been raped, I cannot say what I would do if I found myself pregnant. I keep thinking that those few days of torture I felt last summer would have been prolonged for 9 months if I were to keep that pregnancy. It is not for me to judge whether someone in that unfortunate circumstance could endure that pain. It is not for any of us to judge when abortion is legal. For me, last summer, I was truly grateful abortion was legal.

And frankly, a man can never understand that, especially this idiot in Kansas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If there is an exception for rape cases, I would think that many, many people would simply claim to have been raped, whether or not it were true. I'm not judging people for doing so, as it would seem to be an understandable lie if it allowed her to receive coverage for an abortion that she otherwise feels she cannot afford.

Regarding the life of the mother exception, I think that that's based on medical insurance covering a medical need. As to how a woman because pregnant, I'm not sure why medical insurance coverage needs to take that into account. Rape is a horrific crime, and I would imagine that it could make it very, very emotionally difficult for a woman to be reminded of the rape throughout her pregnancy. Nothing, however, will make her rape disappear, including aborting a child. To me, it's not a question of blaming or punishing the woman, it's a recognition that terrible, terrible things happen to people, and it can be wholly beyond control of the woman raped. Nonetheless, many people believe that abortion is wrong even in the case of rape. And while I cannot, and do not want to, make abortion illegal, I don't believe that we should be required to pay for that right.

You say how tough it would be for a woman to be reminded of the rape throughout her pregnancy. What about for the rest of her life?? She either keeps the child and can never forget or she gives it up for adoption and there is some poor child who has to hope it is adopted by someone decent. If she is unmarried and keeps the child that is a problem. If she is married, her husband would have to want to raise the child of rape. The whole thing is horrendous and is no fault of her own. I got pregnant with my third by accident and didn't want three kids. It was nice to feel I had a choice about whether or not to have three. I decided to have number three, but I really can't imagine being forced to have a child resulting from rape. Rape is about the worst thing I can imagine but bearing a child that resulted from it is even worse. I' d gladly help pay for women who are in this awful predicament.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh please, PP. Horrible arguments.

NP here

I actually think it is a great argument. Some people, including you, have these Hoity toity ideas, until it happens to them. Get raped or your teenage daughter and then let's hear where you stand nod the issue.

[Anonymous]

Can I not pay for diabetes care for someone who is morbidly obese? What about emphysema and coronary bypass for those who've smoked for 50 years? Drug addicts that contracted hepatitis and AIDS?

You pay for all of these things when you pay for insurance. The situation that led them to the need for medical care is off limits. You will pay for the abortion of the mother's life is in danger, but not in cases of rape or fatal defect is just ridiculous. It's the same procedure.

If you believe life starts at fertilization, work towards an amendment or shut it. Your other attempts to curb abortion are just bullshit.

[Anonymous]

It's moronic to say one's opinion isn't valid if they haven't experienced the issue firsthand.

[Anonymous]

I don't want to pay for Viagra, but insurance covers it. Let's start limiting how and when a man can use his penis, then he might remotely start to understand how revolting it is for me to be told how I can use my body.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll probably get flamed for this but to me I think he just ssaid it wrong. Ok so they banned medical insurance from covering abortions in all cases except to save the life of the mother. But then have a provision for an abortion only policy not just in cases of rape but also unwanted pregnacy

I think that's a bunch of nonsense. An abortion insurance policy? Really?

I haven't had a miscarriage or an abortion, but medically, they can be IDENTICAL and I'm relatively sure that the insurance codes don't differentiate between an abortion that someone gets because she WANTS one and an abortion that someone gets as part of a miscarriage.

But the insurance company has access to the medical records, which would show whether the embryo or fetus was showing a heartbeat or not. If heartbeat then the insurance co would only pay for the abortion IF the woman had filed a police report claiming rape AND if the woman had previously purchased rape abortion insurance.

Call me a crazy radical feminist, but I really don't want my insurance company or some asshole from Kansas making decisions about what I can and can't do with my own body. This kind of law would never be enacted, for example, regarding cancer. If it was a men's issue, abortions would probably come with subscriptions to Sports Illustrated and complimentary cigars.

the point is, that over half the country also wants to consider the other person involved - the unborn baby. we can argue over the fringes, but don't you think they deserve a voice too?

1. Where do you come up with that little nugget of non-truth?
2. You're crazy.
3. You're nuts.
4. Go away.

so if you support the sanctity of human life you are crazy and nuts? got it, thanks.

What about the sanctity of the human life actually at issue, the woman who was raped? Why is it that a blob means more to you than an actual living, breathing human being? Why does she not matter to you? I absolutely support the sanctity and dignity of her human life. Why don't you? Just wondering.

Because having the baby will not kill the mother, but it will kill the baby. So weighing the mom's rights against the baby's, it weighs to many of us in the baby's favor.

So I get it. Only the physical health means anything to you. Emotional health and well being don't mean squat to you. Thanks for clarifying. That was actually very enlightening.