Ax vs Ask

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The Boston version is an accent: it applies to more than one word, it applies to a syllable - a phoneme actually. "Ax" does not. If it did, then "task" would be "tax" and "bask" would be "bax" which they are not.

Anonymous wrote:
Ax = incorrect; cah= regional accent

I don't know if the two posts I quoted are by the same author or not, but I'm wondering if you're being intentionally ignorant.

It has been posted by several PP's that "ax/aks" is a standard way of pronouncing "ask" in AAVE. You can read more about it here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/7/7-1048.html, although I doubt you care enough to actually read about subject so that your opinion is an educated one.

"Aks" is a common, consistent pronunciation of "ask." You are wrong in your main point- the use of metathesised forms is indeed common in AAVE, so it meets your qualification of "[applying] to more than one word." It actually does apply to more than one word, despite your obviously un-researched claim.

So now tell me- what makes the Boston accent okay and the AAVE dialect not okay, if in both cases words are not being pronounced as they would in standard American English? Why is a regional accent intellectually superior to a regional dialect, if they both involve not pronouncing words as they are pronounced as they would be in standard American English?

[Anonymous]

PP here-

It appears my link didn't work because of the comma after it. Let me try again.

http://linguistlist.org/issues/7/7-1048.html

[Anonymous]

There are numerous regional pronunciations of English words. There are also mispronunciations. Where is the line drawn between what is a regional variation, and what is just plain wrong?

Common mispronunciations include:

nucular, Febuary, liberry, pronounciation, Antartic, bidness, excape, excetera, mannaise (instead of mayo-nnaise), off-ten, and so on

I'd have a problem if a teacher's pronunciation of many words was not considered Standard English. Just one word "ax" wouldn't be a big deal. As long as the teacher teaches my child to spell the words correctly, it's be OK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here-

It appears my link didn't work because of the comma after it. Let me try again.

http://linguistlist.org/issues/7/7-1048.html

Thanks - that was a fasinating discussion - but didn't settle the issue for me.

Take still/steel in Pittsburghese - it's a one word thing (if you extend it to the "pittsburgh stillers"). People in Pittsburgh don't know it's wrong until they leave the area and find that people don't immediately understand them. Meanwhile, Pittsburghers can handle mill/meal and pill/peal and dill/deal, etc, just as AA's can handle desk/decks. The still/steel confusion a mispronunciation that is considered to be regional, but not uneducated. It is easily fixed and people who leave pgh change it to be better understood.

Some people from pgh will also say "younz" for the plural of you. That's regional too, but also uneducated. It does not travel well outside of pgh and is considered to be uneducated even in pgh. Many people there do not say it any more than they would say "ain't ."

If a DC kid came home saying "Pittsburgh stillers" parents might laugh it off, but I doubt parents would laugh off "younze."

[Anonymous]

Where the free shit at?

[Anonymous]

There are numerous regional pronunciations of English words. There are also mispronunciations. Where is the line drawn between what is a regional variation, and what is just plain wrong?

Common mispronunciations include:

nucular, Febuary, liberry, pronounciation, Antartic, bidness, excape, excetera, mannaise (instead of mayo-nnaise), off-ten, and so on

I'd have a problem if a teacher's pronunciation of many words was not considered Standard English. Just one word "ax" wouldn't be a big deal. As long as the teacher teaches my child to spell the words correctly, it's be OK.

We just correct DD each time she says "ax." For the record, only her PK-4 teacher used this pronunciation in school, and she has picked up the regional accent from her friends. It's not a big deal, and she has other regionalisms that I think are cute like stretching out one syllable words to impossible lengths.

Now on the other hand, "pat-ter-en" was much harder to undo. I can't be the only person whose child was exposed to this DCism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man, I hate when people say Brett Farve! So ignorant!

??

Brett Lorenzo Favre (pronounced /?f?rv/;[1] born October 10, 1969)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brett_Favre

I don't know where the question marks came from, but the point remains it should say (and be said) 'farv. So, I don't understand the PP's point.

But that's not the way it's spelled, so of course, everyone is wrong.

Oh, what's that you say, there's no actual *true* pronunciation, it's just a matter of what people agree on?

Fancy that.

[Anonymous]

what is AAVE

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:what is AAVE

Ebonics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American_Vernacular_English

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here-

It appears my link didn't work because of the comma after it. Let me try again.

http://linguistlist.org/issues/7/7-1048.html

Thanks - that was a fasinating discussion - but didn't settle the issue for me.

Take still/steel in Pittsburghese - it's a one word thing (if you extend it to the "pittsburgh stillers"). People in Pittsburgh don't know it's wrong until they leave the area and find that people don't immediately understand them. Meanwhile, Pittsburghers can handle mill/meal and pill/peal and dill/deal, etc, just as AA's can handle desk/decks. The still/steel confusion a mispronunciation that is considered to be regional, but not uneducated. It is easily fixed and people who leave pgh change it to be better understood.

Some people from pgh will also say "younz" for the plural of you. That's regional too, but also uneducated. It does not travel well outside of pgh and is considered to be uneducated even in pgh. Many people there do not say it any more than they would say "ain't ."

If a DC kid came home saying "Pittsburgh stillers" parents might laugh it off, but I doubt parents would laugh off "younze."

I have said this repeatedly but AX is a mispronunciation of a real word -- ASK -- while younz, which should be spelled You-uns, IMO, is wrong because there is no plural of 'you' at all. It is not a mispronunciation of a legitimate word but a slang word. Totally different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where the free shit at?

At school, apparently. Why do you ax?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the entire Boston accent missing the hard "r" sound?

It's not just that it's a "cah" it's that you also "pahk" it outside the "bah". Also, horses live in a "bahn" and the great English poet & dramatist Shakespeare is the "Bahd."

It isn't one mispronounced word, it's a differently pronounced phoneme. Many Southern and English accents soften their "r" sounds as well.

Bostonian/Massachusetts accent sounds more British than the "standard" American English you hear/spoken in say LA, or in most movies.

Whatever people say within their own social circles, I think if you are an educator and on duty, you need to speak proper English. I had a roommate from Hawaii who went to private schools and spoke proper English, but when she got together with her Hawaiian homeys, they all broke out in pidgin English. If they or anybody else wants to be taken seriously in a professional environment, they need to speak proper English, German, Japanese, Arabic, etc. or any other language correctly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'd have a problem if a teacher's pronunciation of many words was not considered Standard English. Just one word "ax" wouldn't be a big deal. As long as the teacher teaches my child to spell the words correctly, it's be OK.

We just correct DD each time she says "ax." For the record, only her PK-4 teacher used this pronunciation in school, and she has picked up the regional accent from her friends. It's not a big deal, and she has other regionalisms that I think are cute like stretching out one syllable words to impossible lengths.

Now on the other hand, "pat-ter-en" was much harder to undo. I can't be the only person whose child was exposed to this DCism.

OMG. I thought my DD was the only one who said pat-ter-en. I've been correcting her and wondering how she could hear the word pattern and then say pat-ter-en. I didn't realize it was a 'DCism' as I'm an immigrant as as such most times oblivious to regional accents/dialects except for mine of course which would add a new dimension to the ask/aks argument. I say aks as do most people from where I come from. I don't consider us uneducated. It's just something ingrained. I've been trying to unlearn it since I moved to the U.S. but it's not that easy to unlearn something you've been saying since you first learned the English language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The Boston version is an accent: it applies to more than one word, it applies to a syllable - a phoneme actually. "Ax" does not. If it did, then "task" would be "tax" and "bask" would be "bax" which they are not.

Anonymous wrote:
Ax = incorrect; cah= regional accent

I don't know if the two posts I quoted are by the same author or not, but I'm wondering if you're being intentionally ignorant.

It has been posted by several PP's that "ax/aks" is a standard way of pronouncing "ask" in AAVE. You can read more about it here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/7/7-1048.html, although I doubt you care enough to actually read about subject so that your opinion is an educated one.

"Aks" is a common, consistent pronunciation of "ask." You are wrong in your main point- the use of metathesised forms is indeed common in AAVE, so it meets your qualification of "[applying] to more than one word." It actually does apply to more than one word, despite your obviously un-researched claim.

So now tell me- what makes the Boston accent okay and the AAVE dialect not okay, if in both cases words are not being pronounced as they would in standard American English? Why is a regional accent intellectually superior to a regional dialect, if they both involve not pronouncing words as they are pronounced as they would be in standard American English?

Two different posters.

When a phoneme has a consistent pronunciation across the language it is called an accent. Such is not the case with ax/ask.

I read your link, it mentions ONE example dex for desk, and that's even less comprehensible than AX. It also read like a legend invented after the fact.

Nothing addresses the point that "task" is not "tax" and "bask" is not "bax" and "mask" is not "max" etc. If this were consistent, it would be an accent, but since it isn't, it is simply wrong.

W

[Anonymous]

http://www.amazon.com/African-American-Guide-Better-English/dp/0963932926