Ax vs Ask

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't know how it's possible that I disagree with you since it is clearly absurd to do so but I do. Pronouncing the word "ask" as "ax" is not the same as making a grammatical error. Again, would you say of a teacher from New England that they are clearly uneducated because the say "cah" instead of car?

Ax is not like cah, and you know it -- Would the original parent even raise it as an issue, if the kid came home saying cah instead of car? (but keep in mind, most teachers say "ask" much more that they say "car" in the classroom).

The OP might even jokingly mention to the teacher that the kid had picked up her new England accent, but I doubt the OP would say that to the "ax" teacher because it could be perceived as a negative racial remark.

Exactly. Ax = uneducated but cah = cute joke

Why?

See the post directly above this one:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/60/138663.page#1216079

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the entire Boston accent missing the hard "r" sound?

It's not just that it's a "cah" it's that you also "pahk" it outside the "bah". Also, horses live in a "bahn" and the great English poet & dramatist Shakespeare is the "Bahd."

It isn't one mispronounced word, it's a differently pronounced phoneme. Many Southern and English accents soften their "r" sounds as well.

So for the Boston accent, it's differently pronounced, but for an AA dialect it's mispronounced? No.

Just like the "r" is consistently soft in the Boston accent, ask is consistently ax in AAVE. There is no argument for cah being acceptable if ax is not.

FWIW, I would not want my child picking up on either.

[Anonymous]

Put it this way: do you think our President would be ok with his child's teacher at Sidwell Friends repeatedly saying "ax" instead of "ask?" How long would that teacher remain in the classroom?
If its not ok at Sidwell, it should not be ok at DCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Put it this way: do you think our President would be ok with his child's teacher at Sidwell Friends repeatedly saying "ax" instead of "ask?" How long would that teacher remain in the classroom?
If its not ok at Sidwell, it should not be ok at DCPS.

this is how I feel about air freshener and harsh cleansers used at public schools -- the students at Sidwell Friends are not exposed to all that because their parents are smart and successful, while the rest of the population is slowly poisoned at school. But I digress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the entire Boston accent missing the hard "r" sound?

It's not just that it's a "cah" it's that you also "pahk" it outside the "bah". Also, horses live in a "bahn" and the great English poet & dramatist Shakespeare is the "Bahd."

It isn't one mispronounced word, it's a differently pronounced phoneme. Many Southern and English accents soften their "r" sounds as well.

Bostonian here. The Boston accent is not entirely missing the hard r sound -- but preceded by an "a" it is always pronounced "ah" -- as is the letter (but "rake" for example is pronounced the same as is here--and an R is sometimes added as a "linking" sound before a vowel following it). A strong Boston accent, such as the one I had growing up, might also include characteristics that could be considered lower class like dropping the "g" on "-ing" words. there's much more that could be said. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_accent

But honestly I lost my Boston accent to fit in with people from across the country -- fearing many would see me as less intelligent because of it. It may be the same with "ax".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Put it this way: do you think our President would be ok with his child's teacher at Sidwell Friends repeatedly saying "ax" instead of "ask?" How long would that teacher remain in the classroom?
If its not ok at Sidwell, it should not be ok at DCPS.

That is not the question that is being asked now - I think it has been stated over and over that it is unacceptable for a teacher to say "ax" instead of "ask" in the classroom. What is being debated now is why is ax unacceptable and uneducated and cah is not. Both are incorrect pronounciations.

[Anonymous]

OP---

If you're worried about this-- then you probably don't need to be. Besides yourself, your child will meet plenty of other people who say "ask" and prbably fewer and fewer who say "axe." Your child will figure out that some people say ask and some people say axe, and the ones asking are getting, while the ones axing can just keep on axing and axing . . .

It would be great if your child also learned to respect others, even if they are from a less well-educated background.

[Anonymous]

This is PP again.

Reading my post, I fear that it insinuates that your concern about this issue marks you as racist or disrespectful or something like that. My intention was the opposite-- to say kudos for checking yourself and asking for advice before saying something hurtful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the entire Boston accent missing the hard "r" sound?

It's not just that it's a "cah" it's that you also "pahk" it outside the "bah". Also, horses live in a "bahn" and the great English poet & dramatist Shakespeare is the "Bahd."

It isn't one mispronounced word, it's a differently pronounced phoneme. Many Southern and English accents soften their "r" sounds as well.

So for the Boston accent, it's differently pronounced, but for an AA dialect it's mispronounced? No.

Just like the "r" is consistently soft in the Boston accent, ask is consistently ax in AAVE. There is no argument for cah being acceptable if ax is not.

FWIW, I would not want my child picking up on either.

The Boston version is an accent: it applies to more than one word, it applies to a syllable - a phoneme actually. "Ax" does not. If it did, then "task" would be "tax" and "bask" would be "bax" which they are not.

[Anonymous]

ITA with PP who said OP should get kudos for raising a topic before saying something. If OP is still reading this thread, to answer your question, most (good) teachers are fine with parents who say "I think you're great, but I'm not familiar with (whatever) your usage is of (whatever). Is it ok if my child says (whatever) instead?" (I am a Southern AA parent who has dealt with similar issues of what's "correct" in Spanish.)

OP, your child will likely be perfectly capable of using English given a parent who pays attention to what the child learning.

[Anonymous]

I agree with you. FWIW, I think there are more than a couple of DCPS teachers who may be speaking like this. It's not acceptable to me but to each his own. No, I don't think you would hear it at Sidwell. Let's be real.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doesn't this entire thread sum up the problems with the DCPS. When parents (especially ones who care enough to post on and read forums related to the schools) can't agree that teachers should speak grammatically correct standard English, what hope is there for DCPS?? Wow! Maybe the parents of DCPS are a bigger problem than I ever imagined.

Does this post not sum up the problem with people on DCUM who cannot be bothered to read entire threads before posting, or who refuse to acknowledge the arguments made against their point? The word Ax IS NOT GRAMMATICALLY INCORRECT. It is STANDARD ENGLISH -- simply mispronounced (and, not so coincidentally, mispronounced the way an AA person around here would mispronounce it instead of the way a WASP from New England would).

That's nonsense! You would not expect an educated person to say "ax" instead of "ask." Period. It is just that simple. In a job interview, you would be rejected if you were to speak that way. If your doctor used that type of grammar, you would (rightly) question his/her qualifications and intellect. Smart and not-so-smart people know to say "ask." Someone using "ax" is far outside the norm and I'm fairly sure you know that. To claim (in all caps!) that it is standard english is a joke. People who hear someone saying "ax" come to the same obvious conclusion: the speaker is uneducated. You know this as well as I.
To make up ridiculous excuses about how this is not wrong is to do a disservice to the children who are taught by a person using this language. To pretend that in 2010 that the use of "ax" is grammatically correct is a joke! Why go through the mental gymnastics required to make the use of "ax" anything but an ignorant misuse of the English language. Who is served by this? The children of DC should have teachers know the proper use of the English language (as used in this day and age). No amount of linguistic gymnastics can cover the very obvious point: this is a poorly educated teacher who can't speak correctly. It is absurd to conclude anything different.

[Anonymous]

Teachable moment. People pronounce the same word in the same language differently! Vase and aunt. Harass. Etc. Just tell him your family pronounces the word "ask," the teacher pronounces it "aks."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Exactly. Ax = uneducated but cah = cute joke

Why?

Ax = incorrect; cah= regional accent

irregardless = incorrect, some would say, uneducated, too, but some educated people say it. It doesn't make them uneducated, it makes them incorrect - something that can be easily changed by just not using the incorrect word.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teachable moment. People pronounce the same word in the same language differently! Vase and aunt. Harass. Etc. Just tell him your family pronounces the word "ask," the teacher pronounces it "aks."

lie-able moment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly. Ax = uneducated but cah = cute joke

Why?

Ax = incorrect; cah= regional accent

irregardless = incorrect, some would say, uneducated, too, but some educated people say it. It doesn't make them uneducated, it makes them incorrect - something that can be easily changed by just not using the incorrect word.

That doesn't answer the question, it just repeats it.

Ax is a pronunciation of ASK. It is not incorrect in the same way irregardless is incorrect (or in the way "a disconnect" is incorrect, which everyone finds perfectly acceptable for some reason).