Ax vs Ask

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:http://www.amazon.com/African-American-Guide-Better-English/dp/0963932926

That book is hilarious. I don't even know where to begin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The Boston version is an accent: it applies to more than one word, it applies to a syllable - a phoneme actually. "Ax" does not. If it did, then "task" would be "tax" and "bask" would be "bax" which they are not.

Anonymous wrote:
Ax = incorrect; cah= regional accent

I don't know if the two posts I quoted are by the same author or not, but I'm wondering if you're being intentionally ignorant.

It has been posted by several PP's that "ax/aks" is a standard way of pronouncing "ask" in AAVE. You can read more about it here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/7/7-1048.html, although I doubt you care enough to actually read about subject so that your opinion is an educated one.

"Aks" is a common, consistent pronunciation of "ask." You are wrong in your main point- the use of metathesised forms is indeed common in AAVE, so it meets your qualification of "[applying] to more than one word." It actually does apply to more than one word, despite your obviously un-researched claim.

So now tell me- what makes the Boston accent okay and the AAVE dialect not okay, if in both cases words are not being pronounced as they would in standard American English? Why is a regional accent intellectually superior to a regional dialect, if they both involve not pronouncing words as they are pronounced as they would be in standard American English?

Two different posters.

When a phoneme has a consistent pronunciation across the language it is called an accent. Such is not the case with ax/ask.

I read your link, it mentions ONE example dex for desk, and that's even less comprehensible than AX. It also read like a legend invented after the fact.

Nothing addresses the point that "task" is not "tax" and "bask" is not "bax" and "mask" is not "max" etc. If this were consistent, it would be an accent, but since it isn't, it is simply wrong.

W

So I see that you are being intentionally ignorant. AAVE is a dialect, not an accent, so you can stop bleating about it. And why do you keep saying it's not consistent?

I will say it one more time and I will put it in bold text- use of metathesised forms is consistent in AAVE. Go to your local university library, find a book one the subject, and read it. The link does not address the metathesized forms, but a good article on the subject does.

[Anonymous]

Based on this thread, I can't stop thinking about Barbara Billingsley in Airplane! RIP, Leslie Nielsen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The Boston version is an accent: it applies to more than one word, it applies to a syllable - a phoneme actually. "Ax" does not. If it did, then "task" would be "tax" and "bask" would be "bax" which they are not.

Anonymous wrote:
Ax = incorrect; cah= regional accent

I don't know if the two posts I quoted are by the same author or not, but I'm wondering if you're being intentionally ignorant.

It has been posted by several PP's that "ax/aks" is a standard way of pronouncing "ask" in AAVE. You can read more about it here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/7/7-1048.html, although I doubt you care enough to actually read about subject so that your opinion is an educated one.

"Aks" is a common, consistent pronunciation of "ask." You are wrong in your main point- the use of metathesised forms is indeed common in AAVE, so it meets your qualification of "[applying] to more than one word." It actually does apply to more than one word, despite your obviously un-researched claim.

So now tell me- what makes the Boston accent okay and the AAVE dialect not okay, if in both cases words are not being pronounced as they would in standard American English? Why is a regional accent intellectually superior to a regional dialect, if they both involve not pronouncing words as they are pronounced as they would be in standard American English?

Two different posters.

When a phoneme has a consistent pronunciation across the language it is called an accent. Such is not the case with ax/ask.

I read your link, it mentions ONE example dex for desk, and that's even less comprehensible than AX. It also read like a legend invented after the fact.

Nothing addresses the point that "task" is not "tax" and "bask" is not "bax" and "mask" is not "max" etc. If this were consistent, it would be an accent, but since it isn't, it is simply wrong.

W

So I see that you are being intentionally ignorant. AAVE is a dialect, not an accent, so you can stop bleating about it. And why do you keep saying it's not consistent?

I will say it one more time and I will put it in bold text- use of metathesised forms is consistent in AAVE. Go to your local university library, find a book one the subject, and read it. The link does not address the metathesized forms, but a good article on the subject does.

Who's bleating? You're the one insisting other people should go read up on something for which we already have an answer. The Boston accent is just that. "Ax" is not Standard American English no matter how you try to justify it. You can call it Ebonics or a dialect or AAVE or what have you, I don't care. I call it incorrect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.amazon.com/African-American-Guide-Better-English/dp/0963932926

That book is hilarious. I don't even know where to begin.

Would that be intentionally or unintentionally?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
So I see that you are being intentionally ignorant. AAVE is a dialect, not an accent, so you can stop bleating about it. And why do you keep saying it's not consistent?

I will say it one more time and I will put it in bold text- use of metathesised forms is consistent in AAVE. Go to your local university library, find a book one the subject, and read it. The link does not address the metathesized forms, but a good article on the subject does.

Who's bleating? You're the one insisting other people should go read up on something for which we already have an answer. The Boston accent is just that. "Ax" is not Standard American English no matter how you try to justify it. You can call it Ebonics or a dialect or AAVE or what have you, I don't care. I call it incorrect.

You're stupid. You don't have the answer. No, ax is not standard American English and no one in this thread has said that.

It's called AAVE, not Ebonics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The Boston version is an accent: it applies to more than one word, it applies to a syllable - a phoneme actually. "Ax" does not. If it did, then "task" would be "tax" and "bask" would be "bax" which they are not.

Anonymous wrote:
Ax = incorrect; cah= regional accent

I don't know if the two posts I quoted are by the same author or not, but I'm wondering if you're being intentionally ignorant.

It has been posted by several PP's that "ax/aks" is a standard way of pronouncing "ask" in AAVE. You can read more about it here: http://linguistlist.org/issues/7/7-1048.html, although I doubt you care enough to actually read about subject so that your opinion is an educated one.

"Aks" is a common, consistent pronunciation of "ask." You are wrong in your main point- the use of metathesised forms is indeed common in AAVE, so it meets your qualification of "[applying] to more than one word." It actually does apply to more than one word, despite your obviously un-researched claim.

So now tell me- what makes the Boston accent okay and the AAVE dialect not okay, if in both cases words are not being pronounced as they would in standard American English? Why is a regional accent intellectually superior to a regional dialect, if they both involve not pronouncing words as they are pronounced as they would be in standard American English?

Two different posters.

When a phoneme has a consistent pronunciation across the language it is called an accent. Such is not the case with ax/ask.

I read your link, it mentions ONE example dex for desk, and that's even less comprehensible than AX. It also read like a legend invented after the fact.

Nothing addresses the point that "task" is not "tax" and "bask" is not "bax" and "mask" is not "max" etc. If this were consistent, it would be an accent, but since it isn't, it is simply wrong.

W

So I see that you are being intentionally ignorant. AAVE is a dialect, not an accent, so you can stop bleating about it. And why do you keep saying it's not consistent?

I will say it one more time and I will put it in bold text- use of metathesised forms is consistent in AAVE. Go to your local university library, find a book one the subject, and read it. The link does not address the metathesized forms, but a good article on the subject does.

Who's bleating? You're the one insisting other people should go read up on something for which we already have an answer. The Boston accent is just that. "Ax" is not Standard American English no matter how you try to justify it. You can call it Ebonics or a dialect or AAVE or what have you, I don't care. I call it incorrect.

Why do you even bother coming on here if you don't care about opinions different from your own?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So I see that you are being intentionally ignorant. AAVE is a dialect, not an accent, so you can stop bleating about it. And why do you keep saying it's not consistent?

I will say it one more time and I will put it in bold text- use of metathesised forms is consistent in AAVE. Go to your local university library, find a book one the subject, and read it. The link does not address the metathesized forms, but a good article on the subject does.

Who's bleating? You're the one insisting other people should go read up on something for which we already have an answer. The Boston accent is just that. "Ax" is not Standard American English no matter how you try to justify it. You can call it Ebonics or a dialect or AAVE or what have you, I don't care. I call it incorrect.

You're stupid. You don't have the answer. No, ax is not standard American English and no one in this thread has said that.

It's called AAVE, not Ebonics.

I am 13:44, I messed up the quotes on this one. My response to you is now in bold. I suppose I'm done with these thread. I've liked reading the opinions from both sides, but it's fruitless to debate someone who is purposely ignoring facts.

[Anonymous]

my children were at school where the teachers all said 'ax.' we didn't do anything about it b/c they were young - DS just turned 5 and left the old school at 4. However, she has had a very hard time changing this prononciation, and I think that is VERY important. She has always been very articulate, clear, speaker however simlpy correcting her was not enough. Now three months later we are still working on this. So if she was even older, I would be more upset. I let this go in a daycare setting, but school??? come one people, we don't really think this is ok, do we?

[Anonymous]

It's called AAVE, not Ebonics.

http://www.hawaii.edu/satocenter/langnet/definitions/aave.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American_Vernacular_English

Actually, it appears that the terms are used interchangably. Although if you're in a 70's kinda mood, you could call it jive. Ya dig?

[Anonymous]

In linguistics we say ' a dialect is just a language without an army and a navy.' There is nothing wrong with highlighting for your children the variations between standard English and dialects--and encouraging them to know when to use which (context). It would be very difficult for the teacher to change his/her speech pattern however. Teach your child the difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:my children were at school where the teachers all said 'ax.' we didn't do anything about it b/c they were young - DS just turned 5 and left the old school at 4. However, she has had a very hard time changing this prononciation, and I think that is VERY important. She has always been very articulate, clear, speaker however simlpy correcting her was not enough. Now three months later we are still working on this. So if she was even older, I would be more upset. I let this go in a daycare setting, but school??? come one people, we don't really think this is ok, do we?

And yes, simply 'correcting' your child won't do much. Every time you say, "Don't say ax' what your child hears is 'ax'. Model the standard pronunciation (ask),recast what she says back to her "What did you wish to ask me?', and when he/she is ready to talk about language --discuss the difference. It does sound like the early exposure did influence your child's language formation. It will take time to reconfigure. I agree that if all your child hears in school is 'ax' you may be in for some road bumps. If it is one teacher, I would take a deep breath and wait it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It's called AAVE, not Ebonics.

http://www.hawaii.edu/satocenter/langnet/definitions/aave.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American_Vernacular_English

Actually, it appears that the terms are used interchangably. Although if you're in a 70's kinda mood, you could call it jive. Ya dig?

Directly from your links-

..."commonly called Ebonics outside the academic community"

"Non-linguists sometimes call it Ebonics (a term that also has other meanings or strong connotations) or jive or jive-talk."

Because of the connotations of the word Ebonics, it's not used in more educated circles. Ya dig?

[Anonymous]

Because of the connotations of the word Ebonics, it's not used in more educated circles. Ya dig?

Translation – we need to be politically correct and not call it Ebonics – because everyone thinks Ebonics is an improper way of speaking (hmm) – but that’s what it actually is.

By the way – did anyone else snicker about the poster ardently defending the use of Ebonics claiming to be part of “more educated circles?” <snort>

[Anonymous]

I'm AA and "ax" is one of my pet peeves. It really irritates me and suposedly educated people should know better. But I'm a stickler for good diction and grammar. Which is why my kids are now in private school.