Private consultants reality check

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depending on your kid, I’m a fan of hiring someone to help with essays, application deadlines, and discussion of options. But I cannot imagine the level of pressure put on the kids the OP describes. Putting kids through years of planning, strategizing, tailoring, etc may pay off for some, but my heart breaks for kids who inevitably feel like failures because they don’t get into a T10, or whatever school they have been aiming for for years.

One of my kid’s friends spent a LOT of time doing test prep, etc. He missed a lot of social opportunities in high school because his parents were hell bent for him to get T10(and he was mostly on board). He ended up at a T30, but says in retrospect that he probably would have gotten in anyway. Just having the kids know that they are being socially engineered in this way seems like setting a majority of them up for regret.

I agree with this PP but more than regret, I think the worst thing about this social engineering approach is that the kids learn their parents don’t have confidence in them to accomplish something on their own without having to stranger to prop them up. I think that damage to a young person’s confidence and sense of being enough is not worth the slight edge in college outcomes, if any.

Nah. Kids also learn to adapt to what's best for them. Nothing wrong. They either learn from their parents or experienced adults or peers. The kind of people you are talking about are those who can't think. Doesn't matter with social engineering or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depending on your kid, I’m a fan of hiring someone to help with essays, application deadlines, and discussion of options. But I cannot imagine the level of pressure put on the kids the OP describes. Putting kids through years of planning, strategizing, tailoring, etc may pay off for some, but my heart breaks for kids who inevitably feel like failures because they don’t get into a T10, or whatever school they have been aiming for for years.

One of my kid’s friends spent a LOT of time doing test prep, etc. He missed a lot of social opportunities in high school because his parents were hell bent for him to get T10(and he was mostly on board). He ended up at a T30, but says in retrospect that he probably would have gotten in anyway. Just having the kids know that they are being socially engineered in this way seems like setting a majority of them up for regret.

I agree with this PP but more than regret, I think the worst thing about this social engineering approach is that the kids learn their parents don’t have confidence in them to accomplish something on their own without having to stranger to prop them up. I think that damage to a young person’s confidence and sense of being enough is not worth the slight edge in college outcomes, if any.

+1 this is crazy!!!

Honestly, If a kid can figure out what they like and work hard for it. It didn’t matter where they go for college, they will have a full-filing life. Parents can only can help much and their major role is to provide a safe and nurturing environment to let the kid figure out on their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There’s no guarantee either way! We asked one of the big ones after 10th grade. He said he could help DD take her activities national. We said no because too $. DD was admitted to multiple HYPSM.

The next year, we did hire an essay consultant due to a very personal situation but after early rejection, I provided feedback for essay re-writes. That helped, but I had been closely following college stuff for over a year so I understood what essays were for. Essay consultant was pretty useless — a well-known one.

What was your DD’s hook or accomplishment that got her into multiple HYPMS?

[Anonymous]

There’s nothing wrong with kids growing up to be “normal.” Most people are normal, even those who attend top-tier schools. Not everyone is going to be an Einstein—people just need to relax a bit. It is just college....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s no guarantee either way! We asked one of the big ones after 10th grade. He said he could help DD take her activities national. We said no because too $. DD was admitted to multiple HYPSM.

The next year, we did hire an essay consultant due to a very personal situation but after early rejection, I provided feedback for essay re-writes. That helped, but I had been closely following college stuff for over a year so I understood what essays were for. Essay consultant was pretty useless — a well-known one.

What was your DD’s hook or accomplishment that got her into multiple HYPMS?

I was looking for this question as I have the same. Just not possible these days to get into multiple of those without some hook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly the only counselors who can truly move the needle are the ones who are planning things from at least grade 9 on. If you simply hire someone when your kid is a junior or senior then it's too late.

But the kid also has to be doing exceptionally well in school. I would imagine that most families who have money for this type of counseling are private school kids and it's not easy to do well at many top privates. In our experience at a Big3 school, the unhooked Ivy admits (aside from Cornell) are all from the top of the class. I had one of these kids and they got into an Ivy with their own [b]random assortment of extracurriculars and our haphazard attempt at guiding a narrative in the 11th hour. So no 4-5 years of packaging is needed if the grades are there. And no packaging will help if the grades are not there. So honestly, I don't see the point of it.

Maybe it's more helpful in the public realm where there are large classes and many kids with top grades and so it's important for kids to have very built-out narratives to separate them from their academically identical peers.

[/b]

Can you give examples of these random activities and narratives? Give equivalents if you want to protect your identity. Thanks!

DP, but our kid did this and was admitted to their T-15 reach.

An example - DC lived and breathed their sport until toxic team dynamics caused them to quit in 11th grade and just play rec with some friends. But - DC had been coaching since 8th, and they kept that up and also got a job as a counselor at a bilingual after school program and summer camp using their 2nd language. DC coached the sport as part of that. Also, DC’s friend started a literacy tutoring club, and DC did that - focusing on helping kids who speak 2nd language. On the app that rather random sequence of events comes across as a logical mixing of three lifelong passions - the sport, the language studied since childhood, and the coaching and volunteering.

Now applying to grad school it’s the same - DC is applying in a field that combines environmental science and art, so their science undergrad (with last minute art studio assistant work and exhibiting in one one show as a senior) combined with summer art classes taken for fun plus a post grad intensive program reflects a passion for what they want to study, and the sketchbook that they carried around and doodled in all through college became the basis for a portfolio and shows years of technical development. Time spent purely for fun helping the biologist next door collect samples and gap year time spent at field research stations in two different countries (where they speak DC’s 2nd language) also demonstrates longstanding interest and development.

This is why I think the notion of curating kids’ experiences is dumb. Looked at correctly, the life experience of kids who follow authentic interests becomes a really compelling story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly the only counselors who can truly move the needle are the ones who are planning things from at least grade 9 on. If you simply hire someone when your kid is a junior or senior then it's too late.

But the kid also has to be doing exceptionally well in school. I would imagine that most families who have money for this type of counseling are private school kids and it's not easy to do well at many top privates. In our experience at a Big3 school, the unhooked Ivy admits (aside from Cornell) are all from the top of the class. I had one of these kids and they got into an Ivy with their own [b]random assortment of extracurriculars and our haphazard attempt at guiding a narrative in the 11th hour. So no 4-5 years of packaging is needed if the grades are there. And no packaging will help if the grades are not there. So honestly, I don't see the point of it.

Maybe it's more helpful in the public realm where there are large classes and many kids with top grades and so it's important for kids to have very built-out narratives to separate them from their academically identical peers.

[/b]

Can you give examples of these random activities and narratives? Give equivalents if you want to protect your identity. Thanks!

DP, but our kid did this and was admitted to their T-15 reach.

An example - DC lived and breathed their sport until toxic team dynamics caused them to quit in 11th grade and just play rec with some friends. But - DC had been coaching since 8th, and they kept that up and also got a job as a counselor at a bilingual after school program and summer camp using their 2nd language. DC coached the sport as part of that. Also, DC’s friend started a literacy tutoring club, and DC did that - focusing on helping kids who speak 2nd language. On the app that rather random sequence of events comes across as a logical mixing of three lifelong passions - the sport, the language studied since childhood, and the coaching and volunteering.

Now applying to grad school it’s the same - DC is applying in a field that combines environmental science and art, so their science undergrad (with last minute art studio assistant work and exhibiting in one one show as a senior) combined with summer art classes taken for fun plus a post grad intensive program reflects a passion for what they want to study, and the sketchbook that they carried around and doodled in all through college became the basis for a portfolio and shows years of technical development. Time spent purely for fun helping the biologist next door collect samples and gap year time spent at field research stations in two different countries (where they speak DC’s 2nd language) also demonstrates longstanding interest and development.

This is why I think the notion of curating kids’ experiences is dumb. Looked at correctly, the life experience of kids who follow authentic interests becomes a really compelling story.

A kid with a lifelong "passion" for volunteering, eh? Lol.

[Anonymous]

We got our very smart and hard working kid one of these consultants. I personally didn’t find him all that helpful. Consultant would often just stamp approval on what my child is already doing.

I was talking to my friend who also tried to sign with this consulting company and they told me their child did not even get a first interview so the fact that my child was even accepted as a client means my kid has what it takes. I don’t know how true it is but they supposedly boost your chances by 5x to get into ivy and other top schools. Our consultant was a former AO at my child’s #1 choice school.

My kid has perfect grades, high test scores and excellent extracurricular and 2 varsity sports.

My friend’s kid plays one sport (not college recruit level), As and Bs at a private school and no strong extracurriculars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We got our very smart and hard working kid one of these consultants. I personally didn’t find him all that helpful. Consultant would often just stamp approval on what my child is already doing.

I was talking to my friend who also tried to sign with this consulting company and they told me their child did not even get a first interview so the fact that my child was even accepted as a client means my kid has what it takes. I don’t know how true it is but they supposedly boost your chances by 5x to get into ivy and other top schools. Our consultant was a former AO at my child’s #1 choice school.

My kid has perfect grades, high test scores and excellent extracurricular and 2 varsity sports.

My friend’s kid plays one sport (not college recruit level), As and Bs at a private school and no strong extracurriculars.

So! Did your kid get into HYPSM? T10? Stats?

[Anonymous]

The private counselor will not make or break your kid's acceptance. They just provide a little assistance along the way, say with reviewing essays or moral support.

The 1st paragraph you wrote, OP, is over the top and that is not what most counselor are doing or what most kids have. That would be incredibly expensive and then that money would benefit the kid more than the college degree. Plus it sounds so boring and robotic and what is the point of life really.

A little essay editing help or timeline support helps the anxiety level of the kid. Does it help them get in, not necessarily.

You do what is best for your kid and your family. You are not missing out by not hiring a counselor especially one who lives your kid's life for them. Hiring that first type of counselor would make me feel like I totally failed at parenting - but maybe that's the point, maybe those parents never wanted to parent their own child so they are outsourcing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The private counselor will not make or break your kid's acceptance. They just provide a little assistance along the way, say with reviewing essays or moral support.

The 1st paragraph you wrote, OP, is over the top and that is not what most counselor are doing or what most kids have. That would be incredibly expensive and then that money would benefit the kid more than the college degree. Plus it sounds so boring and robotic and what is the point of life really.

A little essay editing help or timeline support helps the anxiety level of the kid. Does it help them get in, not necessarily.

You do what is best for your kid and your family. You are not missing out by not hiring a counselor especially one who lives your kid's life for them. Hiring that first type of counselor would make me feel like I totally failed at parenting - but maybe that's the point, maybe those parents never wanted to parent their own child so they are outsourcing.

Most of the good essay people we know are writing the essays based on drafts from the kids. Sad, but yes it works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The private counselor will not make or break your kid's acceptance. They just provide a little assistance along the way, say with reviewing essays or moral support.

The 1st paragraph you wrote, OP, is over the top and that is not what most counselor are doing or what most kids have. That would be incredibly expensive and then that money would benefit the kid more than the college degree. Plus it sounds so boring and robotic and what is the point of life really.

A little essay editing help or timeline support helps the anxiety level of the kid. Does it help them get in, not necessarily.

You do what is best for your kid and your family. You are not missing out by not hiring a counselor especially one who lives your kid's life for them. Hiring that first type of counselor would make me feel like I totally failed at parenting - but maybe that's the point, maybe those parents never wanted to parent their own child so they are outsourcing.

Most of the good essay people we know are writing the essays based on drafts from the kids. Sad, but yes it works.

Right. Like Trump has cheated all his life and it’s worked. We all respect him, right?

It’s great that all these highly-educated, wealthy parents are outing themselves as unethical, yet normal people kinda already knew that. We watched your kid growing up, and knew he was nothing special. Yet, he showed up in the local newspaper serving food to the homeless, collecting books for poor kids, and shipping sports equipment to needy kids in Africa. We always knew it was curated sham. He never talked about these things except when he traded emails with the community news reporter. Hard to look at these kids and their parents and not feel disgusted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Two kids at Ivies. No private consultants. Small sample but parents of kids at Ivies - from privates in DC, DMV publics, top privates in NYC, etc.- also no private consultants. Used available resources online, podcasts, etc.

If your kids are ivy material, there is a limit to what a consultant can do for you if you already have the test scores, the grades and the drive to have a long list of good extracurriculars. Make your sacrifices to the college admissions gods and cross your fingers. All this nonsense about having a consultant curate your kid's life from the age of 12 is bullshit. They don't have a magic bullet, they have knowledge of colleges and the current landscape, that's it. They are like real estate brokers if you are trying to buy a house in a different city.

In my opinion, consultants provide the best value to the kids that are trying to get into the 50-200 rank schools. They can help your kid find the best fit at these schools because it is easy to figure out what the culture is like at a top 50 school because its all over the internet but will St. Olaf or Rhodes be a better fit for your kid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The private counselor will not make or break your kid's acceptance. They just provide a little assistance along the way, say with reviewing essays or moral support.

The 1st paragraph you wrote, OP, is over the top and that is not what most counselor are doing or what most kids have. That would be incredibly expensive and then that money would benefit the kid more than the college degree. Plus it sounds so boring and robotic and what is the point of life really.

A little essay editing help or timeline support helps the anxiety level of the kid. Does it help them get in, not necessarily.

You do what is best for your kid and your family. You are not missing out by not hiring a counselor especially one who lives your kid's life for them. Hiring that first type of counselor would make me feel like I totally failed at parenting - but maybe that's the point, maybe those parents never wanted to parent their own child so they are outsourcing.

Most of the good essay people we know are writing the essays based on drafts from the kids. Sad, but yes it works.

Right. Like Trump has cheated all his life and it’s worked. We all respect him, right?

It’s great that all these highly-educated, wealthy parents are outing themselves as unethical, yet normal people kinda already knew that. We watched your kid growing up, and knew he was nothing special. Yet, he showed up in the local newspaper serving food to the homeless, collecting books for poor kids, and shipping sports equipment to needy kids in Africa. We always knew it was curated sham. He never talked about these things except when he traded emails with the community news reporter. Hard to look at these kids and their parents and not feel disgusted.

No different than people who put "Hate has no place in this home" signs on their front yards. Just virtue signaling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two kids at Ivies. No private consultants. Small sample but parents of kids at Ivies - from privates in DC, DMV publics, top privates in NYC, etc.- also no private consultants. Used available resources online, podcasts, etc.

If your kids are ivy material, there is a limit to what a consultant can do for you if you already have the test scores, the grades and the drive to have a long list of good extracurriculars. Make your sacrifices to the college admissions gods and cross your fingers. All this nonsense about having a consultant curate your kid's life from the age of 12 is bullshit. They don't have a magic bullet, they have knowledge of colleges and the current landscape, that's it. They are like real estate brokers if you are trying to buy a house in a different city.

In my opinion, consultants provide the best value to the kids that are trying to get into the 50-200 rank schools. They can help your kid find the best fit at these schools because it is easy to figure out what the culture is like at a top 50 school because its all over the internet but will St. Olaf or Rhodes be a better fit for your kid?

This. 💯