Private consultants reality check

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you’re willing to bail for Canada, be aware that there are many similar large public American universities that admit high-stats kids based largely or entirely on stats. My high-stats child finds the whole game really off-putting and therefore only applied to big state schools. Although if your kid is a Canadian citizen the Canadian schools will likely be cheaper, unless they get a merit scholarship at an American school.

OOS at a flagship typically means paying private school prices for a public school education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't see any difference in outcome between the two groups in the end.

Savvy parents who understand "narrative" can help their kids. I did it in reverse. Let them live their lives, and organize it into a "story" summer before senior year. Two at T10 school

With this approach (and I applaud you), don’t you take the risk of having holes in your narrative that you can’t turn back time to fill if you’re missing some essential courses or activities?

Two things:

- Activities and courses dont matter as much as you think, IMO. You need to triangulate on a niche area that's, hopefully, of actual interest to the kid. So horses and medicine. This is not uncommon. The white girl who did horseback riding and is interested in pre-med. Hard. So you need to triangulate on something more niche. Non verbal communication? Interesting. I'm sure AI could tell you a lot about this, and you could find a place junior year summer to work, either with therapeutic riding (not uncommon) or with non verbal kids (interesting!). Then maybe you switch from pre-med to linguistics. And then talk about other animals? Write an essay for John Locke competition. Horseback riding plus work with non-verbal kids plus essay competition = this is a good story. Or horseback riding and physics! Start with movement. Super interesting too.

Like your approach but could you illustrate it using something less fancy? No everyone could afford expensive activities like this.

give me a major of interest and one or two things they did in high school.

Mine is done so let's work on the most common high school activities: varsity and debate.
My point is to have a good story you almost always have to have some uncommon activities first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't see any difference in outcome between the two groups in the end.

Savvy parents who understand "narrative" can help their kids. I did it in reverse. Let them live their lives, and organize it into a "story" summer before senior year. Two at T10 school

With this approach (and I applaud you), don’t you take the risk of having holes in your narrative that you can’t turn back time to fill if you’re missing some essential courses or activities?

Two things:

- Activities and courses dont matter as much as you think, IMO. You need to triangulate on a niche area that's, hopefully, of actual interest to the kid. So horses and medicine. This is not uncommon. The white girl who did horseback riding and is interested in pre-med. Hard. So you need to triangulate on something more niche. Non verbal communication? Interesting. I'm sure AI could tell you a lot about this, and you could find a place junior year summer to work, either with therapeutic riding (not uncommon) or with non verbal kids (interesting!). Then maybe you switch from pre-med to linguistics. And then talk about other animals? Write an essay for John Locke competition. Horseback riding plus work with non-verbal kids plus essay competition = this is a good story. Or horseback riding and physics! Start with movement. Super interesting too.

Like your approach but could you illustrate it using something less fancy? No everyone could afford expensive activities like this.

give me a major of interest and one or two things they did in high school.

Mine is done so let's work on the most common high school activities: varsity and debate.
My point is to have a good story you almost always have to have some uncommon activities first.

I'm the other poster, with 2 kids who've gone through the process (3rd going through soon).

Debate is tough - its worse if kid is asian. Its just so stereotypical. I'd aim for ILR at Cornell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your first paragraph correctly describes what happens.

Now ask yourself if you truly want your children at college with those kids and those families.

I know the answer for us. We already have generational wealth. I’m sending my kids to state flagships or “normal” private schools.

Families with “average” kids also use consultants. Maybe community college for your kids then.

Community colleges are fine, but if you want a four-year residential experience at an R1 university, you do not need to pay tens of thousands of dollars to a consultant who will package your child, nor do you need to package your child yourself. Many prominent state flagships will happily admit every high-stats kid who applies by the EA deadline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't see any difference in outcome between the two groups in the end.

Savvy parents who understand "narrative" can help their kids. I did it in reverse. Let them live their lives, and organize it into a "story" summer before senior year. Two at T10 school

With this approach (and I applaud you), don’t you take the risk of having holes in your narrative that you can’t turn back time to fill if you’re missing some essential courses or activities?

Two things:

- Activities and courses dont matter as much as you think, IMO. You need to triangulate on a niche area that's, hopefully, of actual interest to the kid. So horses and medicine. This is not uncommon. The white girl who did horseback riding and is interested in pre-med. Hard. So you need to triangulate on something more niche. Non verbal communication? Interesting. I'm sure AI could tell you a lot about this, and you could find a place junior year summer to work, either with therapeutic riding (not uncommon) or with non verbal kids (interesting!). Then maybe you switch from pre-med to linguistics. And then talk about other animals? Write an essay for John Locke competition. Horseback riding plus work with non-verbal kids plus essay competition = this is a good story. Or horseback riding and physics! Start with movement. Super interesting too.

- I think it's harder for students and parents to leave things off the the activities section. You have to leave things off so the story works. So it's fine to do all the above and play soccer and be president of debate. But if you also add your premed summer program at Georgetown summer after 9th grade and then president of French club it just muddies the waters. Do it all during high school! But you don't have to disclose everything you did

This, need a nice, unique story. Worked for my kid too.

[Anonymous]

Most counselors don’t help kids “shape a narrative” or build a hook or sketch out a path.

If that’s what you’re looking for, ask first! Otherwise you will be sorely disappointed. I think the value in a counselor is getting advice through the application & writing/supplement process. Getting one earlier, for us, was a waste of money. Counselors always recommend it; it’s money in their pocket for little effort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't see any difference in outcome between the two groups in the end.

Savvy parents who understand "narrative" can help their kids. I did it in reverse. Let them live their lives, and organize it into a "story" summer before senior year. Two at T10 school

With this approach (and I applaud you), don’t you take the risk of having holes in your narrative that you can’t turn back time to fill if you’re missing some essential courses or activities?

Yes, but that parent is obviously prioritizing “let them live their lives” over forcing things with a narrative in mind. This is our approach as well.

I live in a very high income area and I don’t know anyone who has hired a consultant in 7th grade. I know a couple of 9th grade hires, but mostly in later years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’re willing to bail for Canada, be aware that there are many similar large public American universities that admit high-stats kids based largely or entirely on stats. My high-stats child finds the whole game really off-putting and therefore only applied to big state schools. Although if your kid is a Canadian citizen the Canadian schools will likely be cheaper, unless they get a merit scholarship at an American school.

OOS at a flagship typically means paying private school prices for a public school education.

I don’t get this objection.
1. Most OOS flagships are actually a lot cheaper than elite privates.
2. OP is talking about Canadian universities, most of which are large and public anyway.

Obviously if you want to package and manage your child from birth and surround them exclusively with other people who have been packaged and managed all their lives, public and international schools won’t satisfy you. But not everyone dreams of that life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’re willing to bail for Canada, be aware that there are many similar large public American universities that admit high-stats kids based largely or entirely on stats. My high-stats child finds the whole game really off-putting and therefore only applied to big state schools. Although if your kid is a Canadian citizen the Canadian schools will likely be cheaper, unless they get a merit scholarship at an American school.

OOS at a flagship typically means paying private school prices for a public school education.

A large flagship has more opportunities than a small private especially job prospects

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't see any difference in outcome between the two groups in the end.

Savvy parents who understand "narrative" can help their kids. I did it in reverse. Let them live their lives, and organize it into a "story" summer before senior year. Two at T10 school

With this approach (and I applaud you), don’t you take the risk of having holes in your narrative that you can’t turn back time to fill if you’re missing some essential courses or activities?

Two things:

- Activities and courses dont matter as much as you think, IMO. You need to triangulate on a niche area that's, hopefully, of actual interest to the kid. So horses and medicine. This is not uncommon. The white girl who did horseback riding and is interested in pre-med. Hard. So you need to triangulate on something more niche. Non verbal communication? Interesting. I'm sure AI could tell you a lot about this, and you could find a place junior year summer to work, either with therapeutic riding (not uncommon) or with non verbal kids (interesting!). Then maybe you switch from pre-med to linguistics. And then talk about other animals? Write an essay for John Locke competition. Horseback riding plus work with non-verbal kids plus essay competition = this is a good story. Or horseback riding and physics! Start with movement. Super interesting too.

- I think it's harder for students and parents to leave things off the the activities section. You have to leave things off so the story works. So it's fine to do all the above and play soccer and be president of debate. But if you also add your premed summer program at Georgetown summer after 9th grade and then president of French club it just muddies the waters. Do it all during high school! But you don't have to disclose everything you did

This, need a nice, unique story. Worked for my kid too.

Same here. Need a niche/unique story. Top tier college admissions is about scarcity. Understand that first.

[Anonymous]

I hired one in 9th grade but not for the reasons you might guess. DC attended a very competitive private school and his classmates started repeating truly horrifying things they were clearly hearing from parents: "where you go to college determines whether you have an office or a cubicle" and "public school is for poor people."
I realized we needed expertise to counter this, hired a humanist type one for minimal consulting for this reason. However, in the end I think it did actually matter to the eventual applications and results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just a reminder: while Ivy+ and WASP is a tougher admit than ever, some very, very good schools are easier admits than a generation or two ago. A top student with an ED application can walk into a Holy Cross or Macalester and avoid the rat race entirely. Forget college counselors or doing activities solely for the purpose of application resume-padding. Enjoy high school.

Sure, everyone applies to the same 20 unis and SLACs and this advice is ignored. But a lot of those curated kids end up at the same schools (or worse) anyhow.

Agree with this. Your 34 ACT/3.9 normal kid who did what they enjoyed in high school and prepares their own application can find a great fit with tons of other smart normal kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A close friend who tends to be more savvy about these things told me over a holiday get-together she knows some families in our school who hire private consultants who plan the kids’ whole life since 7th grade: help them apply to or even write essays for summer programs, plan sports (plan competition schedule and travel if it’s an individual sport without team schedule, summer skill camps at Ivies), school club leadership (how to recruit members, plan highly visible activities, manage their Instagram to document large gatherings, accomplishments), all the way down to drafting weekly emails for the kid to send to coaches, professors and college tour guides, band leaders they met on tours or summer programs over 4 years to establish relationships in a strategic and unannoying way. These are all before helping them ace the SAT and write their application essays.

Another friend told me last year (she had older kids and know many parents who have been through the process in the past decade) private consultants are useless, that the ones she knew who use them are getting into T25-50 colleges after spending tens of thousands, but not the most selective ones, because the top ones see through the consultants’ finger prints all over an app.

So which is true? I know as with a lot of cases, the answer is “it depends”, perhaps a great consultant could do those things. We have zero plan to use one (we don’t even have a tutor!) but I’m so disheartened that DC who works so hard to get top grades, work so hard on weekends at his part time job is competing under these circumstances. If that’s true, I want to take my kids out of the game and just apply to Canada, which is where DH is from, where you shouldn’t have to play these games to get in.

Anyone BTDT has real insights?

I see this all the time on DCUM (along with many, many, parents who claim their unhooked child got into an Ivy with no professional help, but the reality is that almost all the top Ivy kids I know used consultants to develop narratives and write essays, and all the top schools ate it up like peppermint candy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hired one in 9th grade but not for the reasons you might guess. DC attended a very competitive private school and his classmates started repeating truly horrifying things they were clearly hearing from parents: "where you go to college determines whether you have an office or a cubicle" and "public school is for poor people."
I realized we needed expertise to counter this, hired a humanist type one for minimal consulting for this reason. However, in the end I think it did actually matter to the eventual applications and results.

So you paid to send your kid to an expensive school with horrible elitist (and probably racist) kids then had to pay someone to humanize them. This is hilarious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hired one in 9th grade but not for the reasons you might guess. DC attended a very competitive private school and his classmates started repeating truly horrifying things they were clearly hearing from parents: "where you go to college determines whether you have an office or a cubicle" and "public school is for poor people."
I realized we needed expertise to counter this, hired a humanist type one for minimal consulting for this reason. However, in the end I think it did actually matter to the eventual applications and results.

So you paid to send your kid to an expensive school with horrible elitist (and probably racist) kids then had to pay someone to humanize them. This is hilarious.

Not all of the kids/families and not racist and it was a handful of kids, all legacies, but they were in the top classes with my kid so yes I literally had to counter program.