Private consultants reality check

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two kids at Ivies. No private consultants. Small sample but parents of kids at Ivies - from privates in DC, DMV publics, top privates in NYC, etc.- also no private consultants. Used available resources online, podcasts, etc.

If your kids are ivy material, there is a limit to what a consultant can do for you if you already have the test scores, the grades and the drive to have a long list of good extracurriculars. Make your sacrifices to the college admissions gods and cross your fingers. All this nonsense about having a consultant curate your kid's life from the age of 12 is bullshit. They don't have a magic bullet, they have knowledge of colleges and the current landscape, that's it. They are like real estate brokers if you are trying to buy a house in a different city.

In my opinion, consultants provide the best value to the kids that are trying to get into the 50-200 rank schools. They can help your kid find the best fit at these schools because it is easy to figure out what the culture is like at a top 50 school because its all over the internet but will St. Olaf or Rhodes be a better fit for your kid?

This. 💯

Agree mostly with all this.

But I actually think they can also help a tiny bit higher (Michigan in particular, and sometimes Northwestern, which can be finicky in terms of who it admits). Knowing what certain schools look for in those crazy supp essays - they are long and tedious for a reason. Michigan, in particular, can be "gamed" if you know what the school needs more of (IPs, majors) by doing a bit of research.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The private counselor will not make or break your kid's acceptance. They just provide a little assistance along the way, say with reviewing essays or moral support.

The 1st paragraph you wrote, OP, is over the top and that is not what most counselor are doing or what most kids have. That would be incredibly expensive and then that money would benefit the kid more than the college degree. Plus it sounds so boring and robotic and what is the point of life really.

A little essay editing help or timeline support helps the anxiety level of the kid. Does it help them get in, not necessarily.

You do what is best for your kid and your family. You are not missing out by not hiring a counselor especially one who lives your kid's life for them. Hiring that first type of counselor would make me feel like I totally failed at parenting - but maybe that's the point, maybe those parents never wanted to parent their own child so they are outsourcing.

Most of the good essay people we know are writing the essays based on drafts from the kids. Sad, but yes it works.

False and I’m a professional college advisor. A pro does not do this now an essay coach working out of her second bedroom with no experience in the field might

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The private counselor will not make or break your kid's acceptance. They just provide a little assistance along the way, say with reviewing essays or moral support.

The 1st paragraph you wrote, OP, is over the top and that is not what most counselor are doing or what most kids have. That would be incredibly expensive and then that money would benefit the kid more than the college degree. Plus it sounds so boring and robotic and what is the point of life really.

A little essay editing help or timeline support helps the anxiety level of the kid. Does it help them get in, not necessarily.

You do what is best for your kid and your family. You are not missing out by not hiring a counselor especially one who lives your kid's life for them. Hiring that first type of counselor would make me feel like I totally failed at parenting - but maybe that's the point, maybe those parents never wanted to parent their own child so they are outsourcing.

Most of the good essay people we know are writing the essays based on drafts from the kids. Sad, but yes it works.

Right. Like Trump has cheated all his life and it’s worked. We all respect him, right?

It’s great that all these highly-educated, wealthy parents are outing themselves as unethical, yet normal people kinda already knew that. We watched your kid growing up, and knew he was nothing special. Yet, he showed up in the local newspaper serving food to the homeless, collecting books for poor kids, and shipping sports equipment to needy kids in Africa. We always knew it was curated sham. He never talked about these things except when he traded emails with the community news reporter. Hard to look at these kids and their parents and not feel disgusted.

The homeless got fed, the poor kids got books and some kids in africa got sports equipment.
That's what their cheater kids did.

What did your genuine and honest kid do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We got our very smart and hard working kid one of these consultants. I personally didn’t find him all that helpful. Consultant would often just stamp approval on what my child is already doing.

I was talking to my friend who also tried to sign with this consulting company and they told me their child did not even get a first interview so the fact that my child was even accepted as a client means my kid has what it takes. I don’t know how true it is but they supposedly boost your chances by 5x to get into ivy and other top schools. Our consultant was a former AO at my child’s #1 choice school.

My kid has perfect grades, high test scores and excellent extracurricular and 2 varsity sports.

My friend’s kid plays one sport (not college recruit level), As and Bs at a private school and no strong extracurriculars.

College consultants want to pick winners just as much as any other consulting business. I know a college consultant in NYC that will only take kids that get extremely high scores on the SSAT or the SHSAT unless you are willing to pay a boatload of money and understand that your kid is probably going to Northeastern at best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We got our very smart and hard working kid one of these consultants. I personally didn’t find him all that helpful. Consultant would often just stamp approval on what my child is already doing.

I was talking to my friend who also tried to sign with this consulting company and they told me their child did not even get a first interview so the fact that my child was even accepted as a client means my kid has what it takes. I don’t know how true it is but they supposedly boost your chances by 5x to get into ivy and other top schools. Our consultant was a former AO at my child’s #1 choice school.

My kid has perfect grades, high test scores and excellent extracurricular and 2 varsity sports.

My friend’s kid plays one sport (not college recruit level), As and Bs at a private school and no strong extracurriculars.

What's the name of the consultant? I'm looking for one.

[Anonymous]

Do you want your kids to live this way? Is it worth it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A close friend who tends to be more savvy about these things told me over a holiday get-together she knows some families in our school who hire private consultants who plan the kids’ whole life since 7th grade: help them apply to or even write essays for summer programs, plan sports (plan competition schedule and travel if it’s an individual sport without team schedule, summer skill camps at Ivies), school club leadership (how to recruit members, plan highly visible activities, manage their Instagram to document large gatherings, accomplishments), all the way down to drafting weekly emails for the kid to send to coaches, professors and college tour guides, band leaders they met on tours or summer programs over 4 years to establish relationships in a strategic and unannoying way. These are all before helping them ace the SAT and write their application essays.

Another friend told me last year (she had older kids and know many parents who have been through the process in the past decade) private consultants are useless, that the ones she knew who use them are getting into T25-50 colleges after spending tens of thousands, but not the most selective ones, because the top ones see through the consultants’ finger prints all over an app.

So which is true? I know as with a lot of cases, the answer is “it depends”, perhaps a great consultant could do those things. We have zero plan to use one (we don’t even have a tutor!) but I’m so disheartened that DC who works so hard to get top grades, work so hard on weekends at his part time job is competing under these circumstances. If that’s true, I want to take my kids out of the game and just apply to Canada, which is where DH is from, where you shouldn’t have to play these games to get in.

Anyone BTDT has real insights?

No consultants, no life coaches or planners, and we banned more than one outside activity at a time until 7th grade. The first two attend different ivies, 3rd is likely going to be in at least one T20/top lac, possibly ivy as well. All were top handful of students as far as rigor of coursework and all tested 99%ile overall on nationally-normed private and/or public magnet school entrance and WISC, one 99.9+%ile. They did not all go to the same high school.
For the kids who have the smarts and discipline, who test according to their ability, no extra help via consultants is necessary. They write well on their own, they do not need help other than asking an English teacher to proofread which is normal expected practice at their school.
The ones we know who hired consultants or essay editors or life coaches spent thousands and thousands over the years on tutors and then fandcy consultants, have kids at Baylor, UGA, UVA-in-state, Tulane, and a bunch of other good not amazing T30-T100 places. UVA in state is great but from our private they admit deep into the top third. That student could have gotten in without the $, though their tutors did keep them in the second to top math group from middle school on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A close friend who tends to be more savvy about these things told me over a holiday get-together she knows some families in our school who hire private consultants who plan the kids’ whole life since 7th grade: help them apply to or even write essays for summer programs, plan sports (plan competition schedule and travel if it’s an individual sport without team schedule, summer skill camps at Ivies), school club leadership (how to recruit members, plan highly visible activities, manage their Instagram to document large gatherings, accomplishments), all the way down to drafting weekly emails for the kid to send to coaches, professors and college tour guides, band leaders they met on tours or summer programs over 4 years to establish relationships in a strategic and unannoying way. These are all before helping them ace the SAT and write their application essays.

Another friend told me last year (she had older kids and know many parents who have been through the process in the past decade) private consultants are useless, that the ones she knew who use them are getting into T25-50 colleges after spending tens of thousands, but not the most selective ones, because the top ones see through the consultants’ finger prints all over an app.

So which is true? I know as with a lot of cases, the answer is “it depends”, perhaps a great consultant could do those things. We have zero plan to use one (we don’t even have a tutor!) but I’m so disheartened that DC who works so hard to get top grades, work so hard on weekends at his part time job is competing under these circumstances. If that’s true, I want to take my kids out of the game and just apply to Canada, which is where DH is from, where you shouldn’t have to play these games to get in.

Anyone BTDT has real insights?

Why is this surprising ? Parents who want their kids to be recruited athletes micromanage every aspect of their training since they’re 7 or 8 years old. Why does it come off as surprising when it’s academically related? The odds of a kid getting into an ivy are lower than the odds of a high school football player getting into the NFL. Yet the high school football player has been training probably since he was 5. Shouldn’t we expect that the ivy kids have been “ training” for just as long?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The private counselor will not make or break your kid's acceptance. They just provide a little assistance along the way, say with reviewing essays or moral support.

The 1st paragraph you wrote, OP, is over the top and that is not what most counselor are doing or what most kids have. That would be incredibly expensive and then that money would benefit the kid more than the college degree. Plus it sounds so boring and robotic and what is the point of life really.

A little essay editing help or timeline support helps the anxiety level of the kid. Does it help them get in, not necessarily.

You do what is best for your kid and your family. You are not missing out by not hiring a counselor especially one who lives your kid's life for them. Hiring that first type of counselor would make me feel like I totally failed at parenting - but maybe that's the point, maybe those parents never wanted to parent their own child so they are outsourcing.

Most of the good essay people we know are writing the essays based on drafts from the kids. Sad, but yes it works.

False and I’m a professional college advisor. A pro does not do this now an essay coach working out of her second bedroom with no experience in the field might

There are "secret essay people" that families hire. And yes, they do work (exorbitantly expensive though).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A close friend who tends to be more savvy about these things told me over a holiday get-together she knows some families in our school who hire private consultants who plan the kids’ whole life since 7th grade: help them apply to or even write essays for summer programs, plan sports (plan competition schedule and travel if it’s an individual sport without team schedule, summer skill camps at Ivies), school club leadership (how to recruit members, plan highly visible activities, manage their Instagram to document large gatherings, accomplishments), all the way down to drafting weekly emails for the kid to send to coaches, professors and college tour guides, band leaders they met on tours or summer programs over 4 years to establish relationships in a strategic and unannoying way. These are all before helping them ace the SAT and write their application essays.

Another friend told me last year (she had older kids and know many parents who have been through the process in the past decade) private consultants are useless, that the ones she knew who use them are getting into T25-50 colleges after spending tens of thousands, but not the most selective ones, because the top ones see through the consultants’ finger prints all over an app.

So which is true? I know as with a lot of cases, the answer is “it depends”, perhaps a great consultant could do those things. We have zero plan to use one (we don’t even have a tutor!) but I’m so disheartened that DC who works so hard to get top grades, work so hard on weekends at his part time job is competing under these circumstances. If that’s true, I want to take my kids out of the game and just apply to Canada, which is where DH is from, where you shouldn’t have to play these games to get in.

Anyone BTDT has real insights?

No consultants, no life coaches or planners, and we banned more than one outside activity at a time until 7th grade. The first two attend different ivies, 3rd is likely going to be in at least one T20/top lac, possibly ivy as well. All were top handful of students as far as rigor of coursework and all tested 99%ile overall on nationally-normed private and/or public magnet school entrance and WISC, one 99.9+%ile. They did not all go to the same high school.
For the kids who have the smarts and discipline, who test according to their ability, no extra help via consultants is necessary. They write well on their own, they do not need help other than asking an English teacher to proofread which is normal expected practice at their school.
The ones we know who hired consultants or essay editors or life coaches spent thousands and thousands over the years on tutors and then fandcy consultants, have kids at Baylor, UGA, UVA-in-state, Tulane, and a bunch of other good not amazing T30-T100 places. UVA in state is great but from our private they admit deep into the top third. That student could have gotten in without the $, though their tutors did keep them in the second to top math group from middle school on.

The ones we know who use those services generally get into Stanford, Brown, Penn, Duke, Cornell, UChicago, Northwestern, Vanderbilt (though it was a wilcard in ED this year) and a few others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A close friend who tends to be more savvy about these things told me over a holiday get-together she knows some families in our school who hire private consultants who plan the kids’ whole life since 7th grade: help them apply to or even write essays for summer programs, plan sports (plan competition schedule and travel if it’s an individual sport without team schedule, summer skill camps at Ivies), school club leadership (how to recruit members, plan highly visible activities, manage their Instagram to document large gatherings, accomplishments), all the way down to drafting weekly emails for the kid to send to coaches, professors and college tour guides, band leaders they met on tours or summer programs over 4 years to establish relationships in a strategic and unannoying way. These are all before helping them ace the SAT and write their application essays.

Another friend told me last year (she had older kids and know many parents who have been through the process in the past decade) private consultants are useless, that the ones she knew who use them are getting into T25-50 colleges after spending tens of thousands, but not the most selective ones, because the top ones see through the consultants’ finger prints all over an app.

So which is true? I know as with a lot of cases, the answer is “it depends”, perhaps a great consultant could do those things. We have zero plan to use one (we don’t even have a tutor!) but I’m so disheartened that DC who works so hard to get top grades, work so hard on weekends at his part time job is competing under these circumstances. If that’s true, I want to take my kids out of the game and just apply to Canada, which is where DH is from, where you shouldn’t have to play these games to get in.

Anyone BTDT has real insights?

Why is this surprising ? Parents who want their kids to be recruited athletes micromanage every aspect of their training since they’re 7 or 8 years old. Why does it come off as surprising when it’s academically related? The odds of a kid getting into an ivy are lower than the odds of a high school football player getting into the NFL. Yet the high school football player has been training probably since he was 5. Shouldn’t we expect that the ivy kids have been “ training” for just as long?

A high school football player has about a 0.08% chance of being drafted. The Ivy League odds are actually about 8-10 times better than the NFL draft odds. So it’s better to focus on education!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was talking to my friend who also tried to sign with this consulting company and they told me their child did not even get a first interview so the fact that my child was even accepted as a client means my kid has what it takes. I don’t know how true it is but they supposedly boost your chances by 5x to get into ivy and other top schools. Our consultant was a former AO at my child’s #1 choice school.

You know that you've just shown how this sort of place is a racket, right? The 5x chances have to do with the kid, not the consultancy.

I work in the field, and my goal is to help each individual kid understand the process better and have the best possible outcomes for them. So I don't care if the client comes in with a 1000 on the SAT or a 1600, because I'm not guaranteeing a particular outcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The private counselor will not make or break your kid's acceptance. They just provide a little assistance along the way, say with reviewing essays or moral support.

The 1st paragraph you wrote, OP, is over the top and that is not what most counselor are doing or what most kids have. That would be incredibly expensive and then that money would benefit the kid more than the college degree. Plus it sounds so boring and robotic and what is the point of life really.

A little essay editing help or timeline support helps the anxiety level of the kid. Does it help them get in, not necessarily.

You do what is best for your kid and your family. You are not missing out by not hiring a counselor especially one who lives your kid's life for them. Hiring that first type of counselor would make me feel like I totally failed at parenting - but maybe that's the point, maybe those parents never wanted to parent their own child so they are outsourcing.

Most of the good essay people we know are writing the essays based on drafts from the kids. Sad, but yes it works.

Right. Like Trump has cheated all his life and it’s worked. We all respect him, right?

It’s great that all these highly-educated, wealthy parents are outing themselves as unethical, yet normal people kinda already knew that. We watched your kid growing up, and knew he was nothing special. Yet, he showed up in the local newspaper serving food to the homeless, collecting books for poor kids, and shipping sports equipment to needy kids in Africa. We always knew it was curated sham. He never talked about these things except when he traded emails with the community news reporter. Hard to look at these kids and their parents and not feel disgusted.

The homeless got fed, the poor kids got books and some kids in africa got sports equipment.
That's what their cheater kids did.

What did your genuine and honest kid do?

It’s not that people weren’t helped. It’s that the kid’s actions are performative but reported to the AO as genuine leadership, character and empathy. The ultimate goal here was never to help the needy but to get into an elite college by masquerading as someone who cared about the needy.

Maybe the honest kid didn’t serve a bowl of porridge to someone he’ll never see again, but maybe he was a genuine team member for four years or a good listener to a friend since middle school.

I like genuine people, not performances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The private counselor will not make or break your kid's acceptance. They just provide a little assistance along the way, say with reviewing essays or moral support.

The 1st paragraph you wrote, OP, is over the top and that is not what most counselor are doing or what most kids have. That would be incredibly expensive and then that money would benefit the kid more than the college degree. Plus it sounds so boring and robotic and what is the point of life really.

A little essay editing help or timeline support helps the anxiety level of the kid. Does it help them get in, not necessarily.

You do what is best for your kid and your family. You are not missing out by not hiring a counselor especially one who lives your kid's life for them. Hiring that first type of counselor would make me feel like I totally failed at parenting - but maybe that's the point, maybe those parents never wanted to parent their own child so they are outsourcing.

Most of the good essay people we know are writing the essays based on drafts from the kids. Sad, but yes it works.

False and I’m a professional college advisor. A pro does not do this now an essay coach working out of her second bedroom with no experience in the field might

There are "secret essay people" that families hire. And yes, they do work (exorbitantly expensive though).

This is absolute bullshit. Pricing like that does not exist for a transient service without a lot of advertising. Explain the mechanism that would produce a secret cadre of essay writers that nobody talks about but can charge exhorbitant amounts of money?

The absolute best "essay people" I know interview the student and help them find the college applicant within themselves, it's almost like therapy. The editing help is done by an english teaching assistant or something. They mostly talk about passive voice and bad grammar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A close friend who tends to be more savvy about these things told me over a holiday get-together she knows some families in our school who hire private consultants who plan the kids’ whole life since 7th grade: help them apply to or even write essays for summer programs, plan sports (plan competition schedule and travel if it’s an individual sport without team schedule, summer skill camps at Ivies), school club leadership (how to recruit members, plan highly visible activities, manage their Instagram to document large gatherings, accomplishments), all the way down to drafting weekly emails for the kid to send to coaches, professors and college tour guides, band leaders they met on tours or summer programs over 4 years to establish relationships in a strategic and unannoying way. These are all before helping them ace the SAT and write their application essays.

Another friend told me last year (she had older kids and know many parents who have been through the process in the past decade) private consultants are useless, that the ones she knew who use them are getting into T25-50 colleges after spending tens of thousands, but not the most selective ones, because the top ones see through the consultants’ finger prints all over an app.

So which is true? I know as with a lot of cases, the answer is “it depends”, perhaps a great consultant could do those things. We have zero plan to use one (we don’t even have a tutor!) but I’m so disheartened that DC who works so hard to get top grades, work so hard on weekends at his part time job is competing under these circumstances. If that’s true, I want to take my kids out of the game and just apply to Canada, which is where DH is from, where you shouldn’t have to play these games to get in.

Anyone BTDT has real insights?

Why is this surprising ? Parents who want their kids to be recruited athletes micromanage every aspect of their training since they’re 7 or 8 years old. Why does it come off as surprising when it’s academically related? The odds of a kid getting into an ivy are lower than the odds of a high school football player getting into the NFL. Yet the high school football player has been training probably since he was 5. Shouldn’t we expect that the ivy kids have been “ training” for just as long?

A high school football player has about a 0.08% chance of being drafted. The Ivy League odds are actually about 8-10 times better than the NFL draft odds. So it’s better to focus on education!!

Lifetime income of a doctor, lawyer, engineer or banker are higher than the average NFL player.