Private consultants reality check

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A close friend who tends to be more savvy about these things told me over a holiday get-together she knows some families in our school who hire private consultants who plan the kids’ whole life since 7th grade: help them apply to or even write essays for summer programs, plan sports (plan competition schedule and travel if it’s an individual sport without team schedule, summer skill camps at Ivies), school club leadership (how to recruit members, plan highly visible activities, manage their Instagram to document large gatherings, accomplishments), all the way down to drafting weekly emails for the kid to send to coaches, professors and college tour guides, band leaders they met on tours or summer programs over 4 years to establish relationships in a strategic and unannoying way. These are all before helping them ace the SAT and write their application essays.

Another friend told me last year (she had older kids and know many parents who have been through the process in the past decade) private consultants are useless, that the ones she knew who use them are getting into T25-50 colleges after spending tens of thousands, but not the most selective ones, because the top ones see through the consultants’ finger prints all over an app.

So which is true? I know as with a lot of cases, the answer is “it depends”, perhaps a great consultant could do those things. We have zero plan to use one (we don’t even have a tutor!) but I’m so disheartened that DC who works so hard to get top grades, work so hard on weekends at his part time job is competing under these circumstances. If that’s true, I want to take my kids out of the game and just apply to Canada, which is where DH is from, where you shouldn’t have to play these games to get in.

Anyone BTDT has real insights?

If you have smart kids who read a lot and are generally curious, have them go about their way. Encourage good grades to the best of their ability (get tutors if necessary), require involvement in 1 inside of school and 1 outside of school activity - whatever they choose - it's their choice, and encourage active relationships with the teacher (including active participation).

In Jan of junior year, write out all activities, favorite teachers, favorite hobbies, and apply to some summer programs. Work on essays over the summer and make sure at least 3-4 activities align with the major (you don't pick the major in advance - look at your lists of activities, classes, and teachers to see where the natural and authentic alignment exists), then make a list of schools. Include 10 or so reach schools in RD if your kid is ambitious and aiming for T20.

Followed this for 2 kids so far.
Ivy (pt job forever for this one)
and
T10.

Absolutely no "curation". Allowed their natural interests to come through. And their supplemental essays were filled with intellectual curiosity because they actually cared/lived those interests.

+1. And this advice also works if kid is not a big reader! We followed a similar path and kid at an ivy. Leaned into and supported kid's natural aptitudes and interests (academic and outside school). Prioritized school, involvement, and teacher relationships. Head of 1 club but no major in school leadership titles. Didn’t force higest rigor in every subject. Found programs that fit kid's interests. Made thoughtful choices, not expensive programs. But we were engaged. Plenty of friends hire outside help (and that's ok), but I felt I knew my kid best and I was was interested, willing and able to put in the work to research and learn about the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A close friend who tends to be more savvy about these things told me over a holiday get-together she knows some families in our school who hire private consultants who plan the kids’ whole life since 7th grade: help them apply to or even write essays for summer programs, plan sports (plan competition schedule and travel if it’s an individual sport without team schedule, summer skill camps at Ivies), school club leadership (how to recruit members, plan highly visible activities, manage their Instagram to document large gatherings, accomplishments), all the way down to drafting weekly emails for the kid to send to coaches, professors and college tour guides, band leaders they met on tours or summer programs over 4 years to establish relationships in a strategic and unannoying way. These are all before helping them ace the SAT and write their application essays.

Another friend told me last year (she had older kids and know many parents who have been through the process in the past decade) private consultants are useless, that the ones she knew who use them are getting into T25-50 colleges after spending tens of thousands, but not the most selective ones, because the top ones see through the consultants’ finger prints all over an app.

So which is true? I know as with a lot of cases, the answer is “it depends”, perhaps a great consultant could do those things. We have zero plan to use one (we don’t even have a tutor!) but I’m so disheartened that DC who works so hard to get top grades, work so hard on weekends at his part time job is competing under these circumstances. If that’s true, I want to take my kids out of the game and just apply to Canada, which is where DH is from, where you shouldn’t have to play these games to get in.

Anyone BTDT has real insights?

If you have smart kids who read a lot and are generally curious, have them go about their way. Encourage good grades to the best of their ability (get tutors if necessary), require involvement in 1 inside of school and 1 outside of school activity - whatever they choose - it's their choice, and encourage active relationships with the teacher (including active participation).

In Jan of junior year, write out all activities, favorite teachers, favorite hobbies, and apply to some summer programs. Work on essays over the summer and make sure at least 3-4 activities align with the major (you don't pick the major in advance - look at your lists of activities, classes, and teachers to see where the natural and authentic alignment exists), then make a list of schools. Include 10 or so reach schools in RD if your kid is ambitious and aiming for T20.

Followed this for 2 kids so far.
Ivy (pt job forever for this one)
and
T10.

Absolutely no "curation". Allowed their natural interests to come through. And their supplemental essays were filled with intellectual curiosity because they actually cared/lived those interests.

Will you share what kind of part time job and was it during the school year or summer? DC wants to keep working his summer job which we support, but also feel he's missing out on other summer opportunites. It's also a job that's pretty common and lots of people discount as not interesting enough. :/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sister in bay area paid upwards of $200k for each of her kids for college counseling and I had a first hand view into how much stress both my nieces went through. Every single aspect of their high school experience was micro managed. Oldest got into Washington University spent the first year trying to transfer out but ended up gradating there. The younger one at Boston College and was utterly devastated and took a long time to recover.

We refused to pay that kind of money and we are paying $6k for the essays and guidance. In at UVA, so we are quite happy, but have a few T20 apps in. Fingers crossed.

Pay $200k to get into Boston College??!!

Why did the other not like WashU?

Both were shooting for Stanford and Yale/Harvard. The counselor was a former Stanford AO.

It is more disappointment that after working so hard, both had near perfect GPA's, high test scores, high rigor, EC's, etc. that you could not get into T20. It was insane how much Stanford looms over them. Younger got into UC San Diego, but could not bear to go there as lots of kids from same HS with much lower stats/EC's ended up there and it seemed a let down.

It is heart breaking to see people you love go through this.

Well WashU is a top 20! Did they get a refund from that former Stanford AO? Are they Asian applying to CS by any chance?

Of course, no refund. Not Asian and not CS either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sister in bay area paid upwards of $200k for each of her kids for college counseling and I had a first hand view into how much stress both my nieces went through. Every single aspect of their high school experience was micro managed. Oldest got into Washington University spent the first year trying to transfer out but ended up gradating there. The younger one at Boston College and was utterly devastated and took a long time to recover.

We refused to pay that kind of money and we are paying $6k for the essays and guidance. In at UVA, so we are quite happy, but have a few T20 apps in. Fingers crossed.

Pay $200k to get into Boston College??!!

Why did the other not like WashU?

Both were shooting for Stanford and Yale/Harvard. The counselor was a former Stanford AO.

It is more disappointment that after working so hard, both had near perfect GPA's, high test scores, high rigor, EC's, etc. that you could not get into T20. It was insane how much Stanford looms over them. Younger got into UC San Diego, but could not bear to go there as lots of kids from same HS with much lower stats/EC's ended up there and it seemed a let down.

It is heart breaking to see people you love go through this.

Well WashU is a top 20! Did they get a refund from that former Stanford AO? Are they Asian applying to CS by any chance?

Of course, no refund. Not Asian and not CS either.

Horrible horrible counseling. And essays most likely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sister in bay area paid upwards of $200k for each of her kids for college counseling and I had a first hand view into how much stress both my nieces went through. Every single aspect of their high school experience was micro managed. Oldest got into Washington University spent the first year trying to transfer out but ended up gradating there. The younger one at Boston College and was utterly devastated and took a long time to recover.

We refused to pay that kind of money and we are paying $6k for the essays and guidance. In at UVA, so we are quite happy, but have a few T20 apps in. Fingers crossed.

Pay $200k to get into Boston College??!!

Why did the other not like WashU?

Both were shooting for Stanford and Yale/Harvard. The counselor was a former Stanford AO.

It is more disappointment that after working so hard, both had near perfect GPA's, high test scores, high rigor, EC's, etc. that you could not get into T20. It was insane how much Stanford looms over them. Younger got into UC San Diego, but could not bear to go there as lots of kids from same HS with much lower stats/EC's ended up there and it seemed a let down.

It is heart breaking to see people you love go through this.

Wow I can think of a much different word than “heartbreaking.” Smh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sister in bay area paid upwards of $200k for each of her kids for college counseling and I had a first hand view into how much stress both my nieces went through. Every single aspect of their high school experience was micro managed. Oldest got into Washington University spent the first year trying to transfer out but ended up gradating there. The younger one at Boston College and was utterly devastated and took a long time to recover.

We refused to pay that kind of money and we are paying $6k for the essays and guidance. In at UVA, so we are quite happy, but have a few T20 apps in. Fingers crossed.

Pay $200k to get into Boston College??!!

Why did the other not like WashU?

Both were shooting for Stanford and Yale/Harvard. The counselor was a former Stanford AO.

It is more disappointment that after working so hard, both had near perfect GPA's, high test scores, high rigor, EC's, etc. that you could not get into T20. It was insane how much Stanford looms over them. Younger got into UC San Diego, but could not bear to go there as lots of kids from same HS with much lower stats/EC's ended up there and it seemed a let down.

It is heart breaking to see people you love go through this.

Wow I can think of a much different word than “heartbreaking.” Smh.

Not sure what word you wanted to use, but I have a lot of compassion for the kids.

There is no guaranteed way to get into Stanford or any of the Ivies, sadly. That doesn’t mean some kids don’t but their butts trying. It’s tragic because they tie way too much of their sense of self to what schools they get into.

From the amount of money spent, I’m guessing the zaps could smell “over-coached application” from a mile away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sister in bay area paid upwards of $200k for each of her kids for college counseling and I had a first hand view into how much stress both my nieces went through. Every single aspect of their high school experience was micro managed. Oldest got into Washington University spent the first year trying to transfer out but ended up gradating there. The younger one at Boston College and was utterly devastated and took a long time to recover.

We refused to pay that kind of money and we are paying $6k for the essays and guidance. In at UVA, so we are quite happy, but have a few T20 apps in. Fingers crossed.

Pay $200k to get into Boston College??!!

Why did the other not like WashU?

Both were shooting for Stanford and Yale/Harvard. The counselor was a former Stanford AO.

It is more disappointment that after working so hard, both had near perfect GPA's, high test scores, high rigor, EC's, etc. that you could not get into T20. It was insane how much Stanford looms over them. Younger got into UC San Diego, but could not bear to go there as lots of kids from same HS with much lower stats/EC's ended up there and it seemed a let down.

It is heart breaking to see people you love go through this.

Your kids were not smart enough or did not take the hardest courses. Genuine top kids with max rigor and As without tutors, top 1% scores on unprepped PSAT or other normed tests can get in to T20 without a problem, no hooks, no private counselors. All of mine have as well as many of their top few in the class friends at a variety of magnets and privates. One of mine got into multiple T10/ivy no hooks because they were the best student from their school in addition to all the rest.
Parents should not encourage their non-naturally-top 1% or maybe 2% students to go for these top schools. They are not for them. Aim lower.

Stop with your constant messaging of "non-natural top 1%" and go back to wherever you were born. That's not what top schools want. I'm a 2nd-generation Indian American and have plenty of experience with "top schools" (probably much more than you in my family) and this "aim lower" bs you are constantly espousing here. Get a life.

Top schools want interesting and interested students. Self-driven. A B here or there is not a deterrent (and wasn't for my kids).
Get out of your CS/STEM bubble.

You what top schools probably don’t want? Kids that are such unbearable snobs that they would turn their nose up at a good public college because they would have to go to school with their “lesser” peers. Kids who so lack resilience and perspective that they are “utterly devastated” for long periods of time because they … horrors! … have to go to a very good liberal arts college in Boston. I’m sure these qualities were apparent in their applications. And yes like PP said, I’m sure that their applications did not bear the signs of effortless high intelligence that easily opens the door to top colleges. You know it when you see it. sorry.

[Anonymous]

“zaps” was supposed to be “AOs”. No idea where that autocorrect came from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sister in bay area paid upwards of $200k for each of her kids for college counseling and I had a first hand view into how much stress both my nieces went through. Every single aspect of their high school experience was micro managed. Oldest got into Washington University spent the first year trying to transfer out but ended up gradating there. The younger one at Boston College and was utterly devastated and took a long time to recover.

We refused to pay that kind of money and we are paying $6k for the essays and guidance. In at UVA, so we are quite happy, but have a few T20 apps in. Fingers crossed.

Pay $200k to get into Boston College??!!

Why did the other not like WashU?

Both were shooting for Stanford and Yale/Harvard. The counselor was a former Stanford AO.

It is more disappointment that after working so hard, both had near perfect GPA's, high test scores, high rigor, EC's, etc. that you could not get into T20. It was insane how much Stanford looms over them. Younger got into UC San Diego, but could not bear to go there as lots of kids from same HS with much lower stats/EC's ended up there and it seemed a let down.

It is heart breaking to see people you love go through this.

Wow I can think of a much different word than “heartbreaking.” Smh.

Not sure what word you wanted to use, but I have a lot of compassion for the kids.

There is no guaranteed way to get into Stanford or any of the Ivies, sadly. That doesn’t mean some kids don’t but their butts trying. It’s tragic because they tie way too much of their sense of self to what schools they get into.

From the amount of money spent, I’m guessing the zaps could smell “over-coached application” from a mile away.

Right so I agree. The heartbreaking thing was their totally irrational pursuit of Stanford, pushed I guess by your sister?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sister in bay area paid upwards of $200k for each of her kids for college counseling and I had a first hand view into how much stress both my nieces went through. Every single aspect of their high school experience was micro managed. Oldest got into Washington University spent the first year trying to transfer out but ended up gradating there. The younger one at Boston College and was utterly devastated and took a long time to recover.

We refused to pay that kind of money and we are paying $6k for the essays and guidance. In at UVA, so we are quite happy, but have a few T20 apps in. Fingers crossed.

Pay $200k to get into Boston College??!!

Why did the other not like WashU?

Both were shooting for Stanford and Yale/Harvard. The counselor was a former Stanford AO.

It is more disappointment that after working so hard, both had near perfect GPA's, high test scores, high rigor, EC's, etc. that you could not get into T20. It was insane how much Stanford looms over them. Younger got into UC San Diego, but could not bear to go there as lots of kids from same HS with much lower stats/EC's ended up there and it seemed a let down.

It is heart breaking to see people you love go through this.

Wow I can think of a much different word than “heartbreaking.” Smh.

Not sure what word you wanted to use, but I have a lot of compassion for the kids.

There is no guaranteed way to get into Stanford or any of the Ivies, sadly. That doesn’t mean some kids don’t but their butts trying. It’s tragic because they tie way too much of their sense of self to what schools they get into.

From the amount of money spent, I’m guessing the zaps could smell “over-coached application” from a mile away.

I feel really bad for the kids. I wonder what the parents might have done to nurture that unrealistic hope/expectation of Harvard/Stanford in their kids. Or if it was the parents’ peer group or the kids’ peer group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sister in bay area paid upwards of $200k for each of her kids for college counseling and I had a first hand view into how much stress both my nieces went through. Every single aspect of their high school experience was micro managed. Oldest got into Washington University spent the first year trying to transfer out but ended up gradating there. The younger one at Boston College and was utterly devastated and took a long time to recover.

We refused to pay that kind of money and we are paying $6k for the essays and guidance. In at UVA, so we are quite happy, but have a few T20 apps in. Fingers crossed.

Pay $200k to get into Boston College??!!

Why did the other not like WashU?

Both were shooting for Stanford and Yale/Harvard. The counselor was a former Stanford AO.

It is more disappointment that after working so hard, both had near perfect GPA's, high test scores, high rigor, EC's, etc. that you could not get into T20. It was insane how much Stanford looms over them. Younger got into UC San Diego, but could not bear to go there as lots of kids from same HS with much lower stats/EC's ended up there and it seemed a let down.

It is heart breaking to see people you love go through this.

Are you sure about their profiles? I simply can’t wrap my head around what happened to your nieces.

My son is only a normal high stats kid with good grades and SAT score (below top 5% but within top 10% in his non-elite high school) and decent ECs. He hasn’t had a private consultant or tutor at any point in high school. His common app essay was good, but he wrote his supplemental essays at the last minute so the quality varies. He already got into a better school than Boston College and I wouldn’t be surprised if he has even better offers in RD!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A close friend who tends to be more savvy about these things told me over a holiday get-together she knows some families in our school who hire private consultants who plan the kids’ whole life since 7th grade: help them apply to or even write essays for summer programs, plan sports (plan competition schedule and travel if it’s an individual sport without team schedule, summer skill camps at Ivies), school club leadership (how to recruit members, plan highly visible activities, manage their Instagram to document large gatherings, accomplishments), all the way down to drafting weekly emails for the kid to send to coaches, professors and college tour guides, band leaders they met on tours or summer programs over 4 years to establish relationships in a strategic and unannoying way. These are all before helping them ace the SAT and write their application essays.

Another friend told me last year (she had older kids and know many parents who have been through the process in the past decade) private consultants are useless, that the ones she knew who use them are getting into T25-50 colleges after spending tens of thousands, but not the most selective ones, because the top ones see through the consultants’ finger prints all over an app.

So which is true? I know as with a lot of cases, the answer is “it depends”, perhaps a great consultant could do those things. We have zero plan to use one (we don’t even have a tutor!) but I’m so disheartened that DC who works so hard to get top grades, work so hard on weekends at his part time job is competing under these circumstances. If that’s true, I want to take my kids out of the game and just apply to Canada, which is where DH is from, where you shouldn’t have to play these games to get in.

Anyone BTDT has real insights?

If you have smart kids who read a lot and are generally curious, have them go about their way. Encourage good grades to the best of their ability (get tutors if necessary), require involvement in 1 inside of school and 1 outside of school activity - whatever they choose - it's their choice, and encourage active relationships with the teacher (including active participation).

In Jan of junior year, write out all activities, favorite teachers, favorite hobbies, and apply to some summer programs. Work on essays over the summer and make sure at least 3-4 activities align with the major (you don't pick the major in advance - look at your lists of activities, classes, and teachers to see where the natural and authentic alignment exists), then make a list of schools. Include 10 or so reach schools in RD if your kid is ambitious and aiming for T20.

Followed this for 2 kids so far.
Ivy (pt job forever for this one)
and
T10.

Absolutely no "curation". Allowed their natural interests to come through. And their supplemental essays were filled with intellectual curiosity because they actually cared/lived those interests.

Will you share what kind of part time job and was it during the school year or summer? DC wants to keep working his summer job which we support, but also feel he's missing out on other summer opportunites. It's also a job that's pretty common and lots of people discount as not interesting enough. :/

DC1: PT job extended from school year through summers. Tied tangentially to major (think something with plant nurseries and gardening and the like). For 3 years, leading to more and more responsibilities. Pretty uncommon which led to some other opps which may have "looked good" in the college process?

DC2: No pt job but did have 2 summer internships (sourced on own).

Very different paths.

[Anonymous]

It might be that the LORs and the interviews (things that are not controllable by the admissions consultant) didn't match the curated part.

If the narrative the admissions consultant put together is "empathetic high achiever" but the teachers (or school counselor) didn't experience that, I would imagine that it would make the larger package suspect. What if the letter writer called out something else (that is complimentary) but not at all in-line with a main theme the consultant tried to create? It would seem strange if the main narrative wasn't referenced at all in the teacher recs.

One of the weak-spots of over-consulted packages is that it takes one credible, external source saying something really different for the whole thing to weaken. Top colleges have relationships with top high schools (public and private). More experienced AOs usually have the feeder schools in their portfolio, and they've seen a lot applications, and have data for several years admission from competitive areas in front of them.

[Anonymous]

I get the impression the market for private college consultants is saturated already. There’s also plenty of free stuff out there, so I can only see very marginal benefits from paying such a hefty fee.