Financial Aid Fraud

[Anonymous]

I know- it bothers me too that the kids that receive financial aid still wear UGG boots. So wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is accurate that most parents want to get rid of financial aid. While big donors might be okay with it, the average parent paying full tuition knows that they are paying more because the financial aid program is using up a large part of the budget and those funds are desperately needed elsewhere or could be used to decrease tuition significantly for full pay families.

Do you have any data to support your assertion that most parents want to get rid of financial aid? Please post it, if you do. Also, most schools show on their websites how much financial aid they give, so prospective parents can’t complain that they didn’t know about it. If they think it’s unfair to them, they can choose another school.

Ask the parents at your school in a setting where you can get an honest response. The financial aid budget is a large part of the annual budget. Full pay tuition is used to meet this budget.

Your repeated answer seems to be that you know the majority of people do not want financial aid to exist because you and the parents you’ve talked to don’t. Well, I and the parents I’ve talked to have no issue with it, and support the school providing FA to families. Now, maybe we are at two different schools that just happen to have two different prevailing beliefs. Or maybe not everyone has the same view. I don’t assume that my friend group represents the entire school population. You seem to think yours does.

If that’s really accurate, you should have no trouble organizing a petition or something to ask your school to stop offering FA. If as you say, there is truly an overwhelming number of parents who do not support it, there’s certainly no need for a school to offer it, and in fact it makes little financial sense to do so if neither wanted nor needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is accurate that most parents want to get rid of financial aid. While big donors might be okay with it, the average parent paying full tuition knows that they are paying more because the financial aid program is using up a large part of the budget and those funds are desperately needed elsewhere or could be used to decrease tuition significantly for full pay families.

Do you have any data to support your assertion that most parents want to get rid of financial aid? Please post it, if you do. Also, most schools show on their websites how much financial aid they give, so prospective parents can’t complain that they didn’t know about it. If they think it’s unfair to them, they can choose another school.

Ask the parents at your school in a setting where you can get an honest response. The financial aid budget is a large part of the annual budget. Full pay tuition is used to meet this budget.

Your repeated answer seems to be that you know the majority of people do not want financial aid to exist because you and the parents you’ve talked to don’t. Well, I and the parents I’ve talked to have no issue with it, and support the school providing FA to families. Now, maybe we are at two different schools that just happen to have two different prevailing beliefs. Or maybe not everyone has the same view. I don’t assume that my friend group represents the entire school population. You seem to think yours does.

If that’s really accurate, you should have no trouble organizing a petition or something to ask your school to stop offering FA. If as you say, there is truly an overwhelming number of parents who do not support it, there’s certainly no need for a school to offer it, and in fact it makes little financial sense to do so if neither wanted nor needed.

It is easier to go through the board in the context of annual tuition increases and optimizing the budget.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can you report someone for committing financial aid fraud?

There was a family or two that were receiving a lot of financial aid (one almost 100 percent) and they belonged to one of the Big 3 country clubs and another expensive club at our Big 3 school. Many people stopped giving aid because of it. They are getting a full ride at college now. Other family same thing massive financial aid at college and belong to expensive country club - $100K.

[Anonymous]

I think a lot of parents are frustrated with being pumped for gifts to support FA when they know the bulk of it is going to athletes. I mean, why prioritize opportunities for athletes who can land at the same college or pro team if they do well with their sport at a public school? Why not throw FA at truly low income students who are academically gifted or bright enough to do something great using their brain instead of their athletic ability?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a kid who gets financial aid and has a north face jacket, not even used.

They probably bought it with those financial aid dollars. Probably thousands of dollars worth of luxury clothing and vacations while they get suckers like us to fund the whole scheme.

Or, they got a good deal. When my kid was younger, I got a few (buying the next size up) North Face coats for $30, sold them for $50. I didn't see what was so special about them.

The financial aid parents should be focused on earning a higher salary so they can get off financial aid and free up those funds for other needy families. They should not be focused on bargain shopping for deals on branded clothing, or flipping branded clothing for some pocket change. They are receiving donated funds and have a responsibility to get themselves on better financial footing.

You should be focused on getting therapy since you’ve made this same comment about a thousand times on this site across every financial aid thread. You have a responsibility to get yourself on a better mental footing.

It is not an original idea. It is the consensus opinion.

No, it's not. Perhaps in your echo chamber it is, but it is absolutely not the consensus opinion of all parents. What supreme self delusion to think you speak for everyone - Get a grip.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's fairly difficult to fake low income. Some services get the information directly from the IRS.

Not if you use an LLC for everything. I helped (through an org for FGLI kids) a kid last year whose family did this and reported their income as $80K and qualified as LI for college (3 kids). Fancy address. Most private meets-needs colleges that she was admitted to denied financial aid but one of HYPSM gave $60k/yr. Her dad had a video on insta to show how to use loopholes to own multiple houses (they had 5-6) through LLC and get money from the LLC — I did not watch it but after April 1, they removed it. I guess they did not want to be caught.

LLCs still have to report gross income on their taxes. It’s all on Schedule C. Having one does not hide what you made even if you can rack up expenses to lower your taxable income.

That is very naive. This is easily manipulated to be whatever you want. Depreciate assets, claim losses, do not report everything, etc.

No, it’s very aware of how taxes work. You can reduce your gross income, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t reported. What the schools do with it is a different question.

“Not report everything” is tax fraud, so yeah, you could do that but I wouldn’t recommend it.

No, you seem clueless how taxes work for small businesses. Many people can reduce their gross income to being virtually nothing to even reporting net losses by inflating expenses and minimizing revenue on paper. It is all legal, or at least close enough, even when they do not report everything. It is done legally. A small business can be very successful but report net losses, year after year. If large companies like Amazon can do it, so can the rest of us.

Lol you don’t know the difference between gross and net, nor how expenses get reported on tax forms, so I think we’re done here.

There were no errors. You should read a book and learn something rather than arguing online.

There were multiple errors. For one, inflating expenses doesn’t reduce gross income (Schedule C, part 1), it reduces net profit (Schedule C, line 31).

If you actually knew how business taxes worked, you would see this immediately. Embarrassing.

You are confusing personal gross income with business accounting. You are the embarrassment. Get off this board.

Nope, we are talking about LLCs whose gross receipts or sales are reported on Schedule C.

Just doubling down on the ignorance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's fairly difficult to fake low income. Some services get the information directly from the IRS.

Not if you use an LLC for everything. I helped (through an org for FGLI kids) a kid last year whose family did this and reported their income as $80K and qualified as LI for college (3 kids). Fancy address. Most private meets-needs colleges that she was admitted to denied financial aid but one of HYPSM gave $60k/yr. Her dad had a video on insta to show how to use loopholes to own multiple houses (they had 5-6) through LLC and get money from the LLC — I did not watch it but after April 1, they removed it. I guess they did not want to be caught.

LLCs still have to report gross income on their taxes. It’s all on Schedule C. Having one does not hide what you made even if you can rack up expenses to lower your taxable income.

That is very naive. This is easily manipulated to be whatever you want. Depreciate assets, claim losses, do not report everything, etc.

No, it’s very aware of how taxes work. You can reduce your gross income, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t reported. What the schools do with it is a different question.

“Not report everything” is tax fraud, so yeah, you could do that but I wouldn’t recommend it.

No, you seem clueless how taxes work for small businesses. Many people can reduce their gross income to being virtually nothing to even reporting net losses by inflating expenses and minimizing revenue on paper. It is all legal, or at least close enough, even when they do not report everything. It is done legally. A small business can be very successful but report net losses, year after year. If large companies like Amazon can do it, so can the rest of us.

Lol you don’t know the difference between gross and net, nor how expenses get reported on tax forms, so I think we’re done here.

There were no errors. You should read a book and learn something rather than arguing online.

There were multiple errors. For one, inflating expenses doesn’t reduce gross income (Schedule C, part 1), it reduces net profit (Schedule C, line 31).

If you actually knew how business taxes worked, you would see this immediately. Embarrassing.

You are confusing personal gross income with business accounting. You are the embarrassment. Get off this board.

Nope, we are talking about LLCs whose gross receipts or sales are reported on Schedule C.

Just doubling down on the ignorance.

Nope. You would flunk out of clown college. Please get off this board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a kid who gets financial aid and has a north face jacket, not even used.

They probably bought it with those financial aid dollars. Probably thousands of dollars worth of luxury clothing and vacations while they get suckers like us to fund the whole scheme.

Or, they got a good deal. When my kid was younger, I got a few (buying the next size up) North Face coats for $30, sold them for $50. I didn't see what was so special about them.

The financial aid parents should be focused on earning a higher salary so they can get off financial aid and free up those funds for other needy families. They should not be focused on bargain shopping for deals on branded clothing, or flipping branded clothing for some pocket change. They are receiving donated funds and have a responsibility to get themselves on better financial footing.

You should be focused on getting therapy since you’ve made this same comment about a thousand times on this site across every financial aid thread. You have a responsibility to get yourself on a better mental footing.

It is not an original idea. It is the consensus opinion.

No, it's not. Perhaps in your echo chamber it is, but it is absolutely not the consensus opinion of all parents. What supreme self delusion to think you speak for everyone - Get a grip.

Look in the mirror, you are doing the exact same thing. What supreme self delusion you have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a kid who gets financial aid and has a north face jacket, not even used.

They probably bought it with those financial aid dollars. Probably thousands of dollars worth of luxury clothing and vacations while they get suckers like us to fund the whole scheme.

Or, they got a good deal. When my kid was younger, I got a few (buying the next size up) North Face coats for $30, sold them for $50. I didn't see what was so special about them.

The financial aid parents should be focused on earning a higher salary so they can get off financial aid and free up those funds for other needy families. They should not be focused on bargain shopping for deals on branded clothing, or flipping branded clothing for some pocket change. They are receiving donated funds and have a responsibility to get themselves on better financial footing.

You should be focused on getting therapy since you’ve made this same comment about a thousand times on this site across every financial aid thread. You have a responsibility to get yourself on a better mental footing.

It is not an original idea. It is the consensus opinion.

No, it's not. Perhaps in your echo chamber it is, but it is absolutely not the consensus opinion of all parents. What supreme self delusion to think you speak for everyone - Get a grip.

Look in the mirror, you are doing the exact same thing. What supreme self delusion you have.

LOL. You are so obviously one angry troll on this thread that just keeps asserting you know what everyone wants, without any evidence, just that you say so. Go take a Xanax my friend, I'm sure this topic isn't the only injustice you rail against in your life. I'm sure you are fun at parties. Cheers!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a kid who gets financial aid and has a north face jacket, not even used.

They probably bought it with those financial aid dollars. Probably thousands of dollars worth of luxury clothing and vacations while they get suckers like us to fund the whole scheme.

Or, they got a good deal. When my kid was younger, I got a few (buying the next size up) North Face coats for $30, sold them for $50. I didn't see what was so special about them.

The financial aid parents should be focused on earning a higher salary so they can get off financial aid and free up those funds for other needy families. They should not be focused on bargain shopping for deals on branded clothing, or flipping branded clothing for some pocket change. They are receiving donated funds and have a responsibility to get themselves on better financial footing.

You should be focused on getting therapy since you’ve made this same comment about a thousand times on this site across every financial aid thread. You have a responsibility to get yourself on a better mental footing.

It is not an original idea. It is the consensus opinion.

No, it's not. Perhaps in your echo chamber it is, but it is absolutely not the consensus opinion of all parents. What supreme self delusion to think you speak for everyone - Get a grip.

Look in the mirror, you are doing the exact same thing. What supreme self delusion you have.

LOL. You are so obviously one angry troll on this thread that just keeps asserting you know what everyone wants, without any evidence, just that you say so. Go take a Xanax my friend, I'm sure this topic isn't the only injustice you rail against in your life. I'm sure you are fun at parties. Cheers!

Trust me, we don’t go to the same parties. I’d like to invite you to the library though to show you what books are used for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:School administrator here. There is an ugliness and ignorance in this thread. Those who are begrudging families receiving financial aid are actually the ones who are wildly out of sync with school culture.

1. It is not accurate that most families want to get rid of financial aid. I work in school philanthropy and it's the #1 reason that the biggest donors cite when contributing to the annual fund. There's a benefit, as another poster said, to every student to having socio-economic diversity in the community. These students will graduate into a world with income disparity. They need the skills and awareness to communicate with others outside their economic class in order to function in their careers.

2. Why do you care what someone else's children wear? If they found a way to buy name brands cheaply, good for them! They don't owe it to you to spend every last minute trying to increase their income. There's a lot of wealth in these schools, and children who receive financial aid are surrounded by evidence of affluence. If they can wear a North Face jacket and feel more like they fit in, that's wonderful. They're still not going to be able to brag about skiing in Switzerland over winter break, which is what they hear other kids doing.

3. For those two parents working in low-paying nonprofit jobs? Good for them. Yes, the financial aid program wants to support those families! And they are often the ones who volunteer and bring the knowledge about how to run a sustainable non-profit (like the school itself) to their school committees, boards, parents associations.

4. A family getting a "sibling discount?" Why not? We love those families, so long as all the kids can meet the admissions standards. And when you apply $55K per tuition times 3 kids, and then do the math on the pre-tax income needed to support that? It means you can make a good income and still qualify for assistance.

5. I doubt very much there's any fraud going on. FAFSA and the business office know a lot more than you about a family's finances, job situation, etc.

Just by kind, OP, and stay out of it.

Where my son goes, everything is done through Clarity - so it’s not like there is a human being in the business office seeing any documents that are submitted and confirming or checking anything. 2 self employed parents living in multi million dollar homes in 20816 and 20815 might cause a human being to think twice, but not the computer - as long as they have offset their income with enough undocumented expenses to qualify for almost full financial aid according to the computer. The two week summer vacation up north every summer must qualify as a business expense. Being seen on island is important.

And it’s not really about kindness. Maybe if you are someone to whom these tuitions are no big deal, you can think of it as being kind to not care who gets it. But if you’re someone who has saved and continues to live frugally to be able afford these tuitions, it smarts a little to think about people cheating the system. Most people fully believe in aid for families who genuinely qualify - seems reasonable to not support it for grifters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:School administrator here. There is an ugliness and ignorance in this thread. Those who are begrudging families receiving financial aid are actually the ones who are wildly out of sync with school culture.

1. It is not accurate that most families want to get rid of financial aid. I work in school philanthropy and it's the #1 reason that the biggest donors cite when contributing to the annual fund. There's a benefit, as another poster said, to every student to having socio-economic diversity in the community. These students will graduate into a world with income disparity. They need the skills and awareness to communicate with others outside their economic class in order to function in their careers.

2. Why do you care what someone else's children wear? If they found a way to buy name brands cheaply, good for them! They don't owe it to you to spend every last minute trying to increase their income. There's a lot of wealth in these schools, and children who receive financial aid are surrounded by evidence of affluence. If they can wear a North Face jacket and feel more like they fit in, that's wonderful. They're still not going to be able to brag about skiing in Switzerland over winter break, which is what they hear other kids doing.

3. For those two parents working in low-paying nonprofit jobs? Good for them. Yes, the financial aid program wants to support those families! And they are often the ones who volunteer and bring the knowledge about how to run a sustainable non-profit (like the school itself) to their school committees, boards, parents associations.

4. A family getting a "sibling discount?" Why not? We love those families, so long as all the kids can meet the admissions standards. And when you apply $55K per tuition times 3 kids, and then do the math on the pre-tax income needed to support that? It means you can make a good income and still qualify for assistance.

5. I doubt very much there's any fraud going on. FAFSA and the business office know a lot more than you about a family's finances, job situation, etc.

Just by kind, OP, and stay out of it.

Thank you for sharing this. As an FA family, these threads are always troubling to see

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:School administrator here. There is an ugliness and ignorance in this thread. Those who are begrudging families receiving financial aid are actually the ones who are wildly out of sync with school culture.

1. It is not accurate that most families want to get rid of financial aid. I work in school philanthropy and it's the #1 reason that the biggest donors cite when contributing to the annual fund. There's a benefit, as another poster said, to every student to having socio-economic diversity in the community. These students will graduate into a world with income disparity. They need the skills and awareness to communicate with others outside their economic class in order to function in their careers.

2. Why do you care what someone else's children wear? If they found a way to buy name brands cheaply, good for them! They don't owe it to you to spend every last minute trying to increase their income. There's a lot of wealth in these schools, and children who receive financial aid are surrounded by evidence of affluence. If they can wear a North Face jacket and feel more like they fit in, that's wonderful. They're still not going to be able to brag about skiing in Switzerland over winter break, which is what they hear other kids doing.

3. For those two parents working in low-paying nonprofit jobs? Good for them. Yes, the financial aid program wants to support those families! And they are often the ones who volunteer and bring the knowledge about how to run a sustainable non-profit (like the school itself) to their school committees, boards, parents associations.

4. A family getting a "sibling discount?" Why not? We love those families, so long as all the kids can meet the admissions standards. And when you apply $55K per tuition times 3 kids, and then do the math on the pre-tax income needed to support that? It means you can make a good income and still qualify for assistance.

5. I doubt very much there's any fraud going on. FAFSA and the business office know a lot more than you about a family's finances, job situation, etc.

Just by kind, OP, and stay out of it.

Where my son goes, everything is done through Clarity - so it’s not like there is a human being in the business office seeing any documents that are submitted and confirming or checking anything. 2 self employed parents living in multi million dollar homes in 20816 and 20815 might cause a human being to think twice, but not the computer - as long as they have offset their income with enough undocumented expenses to qualify for almost full financial aid according to the computer. The two week summer vacation up north every summer must qualify as a business expense. Being seen on island is important.

And it’s not really about kindness. Maybe if you are someone to whom these tuitions are no big deal, you can think of it as being kind to not care who gets it. But if you’re someone who has saved and continues to live frugally to be able afford these tuitions, it smarts a little to think about people cheating the system. Most people fully believe in aid for families who genuinely qualify - seems reasonable to not support it for grifters.

Clarity makes a recommendation. The school FA administrator then reviews the application and makes the final decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:School administrator here. There is an ugliness and ignorance in this thread. Those who are begrudging families receiving financial aid are actually the ones who are wildly out of sync with school culture.

1. It is not accurate that most families want to get rid of financial aid. I work in school philanthropy and it's the #1 reason that the biggest donors cite when contributing to the annual fund. There's a benefit, as another poster said, to every student to having socio-economic diversity in the community. These students will graduate into a world with income disparity. They need the skills and awareness to communicate with others outside their economic class in order to function in their careers.

2. Why do you care what someone else's children wear? If they found a way to buy name brands cheaply, good for them! They don't owe it to you to spend every last minute trying to increase their income. There's a lot of wealth in these schools, and children who receive financial aid are surrounded by evidence of affluence. If they can wear a North Face jacket and feel more like they fit in, that's wonderful. They're still not going to be able to brag about skiing in Switzerland over winter break, which is what they hear other kids doing.

3. For those two parents working in low-paying nonprofit jobs? Good for them. Yes, the financial aid program wants to support those families! And they are often the ones who volunteer and bring the knowledge about how to run a sustainable non-profit (like the school itself) to their school committees, boards, parents associations.

4. A family getting a "sibling discount?" Why not? We love those families, so long as all the kids can meet the admissions standards. And when you apply $55K per tuition times 3 kids, and then do the math on the pre-tax income needed to support that? It means you can make a good income and still qualify for assistance.

5. I doubt very much there's any fraud going on. FAFSA and the business office know a lot more than you about a family's finances, job situation, etc.

Just by kind, OP, and stay out of it.

Where my son goes, everything is done through Clarity - so it’s not like there is a human being in the business office seeing any documents that are submitted and confirming or checking anything. 2 self employed parents living in multi million dollar homes in 20816 and 20815 might cause a human being to think twice, but not the computer - as long as they have offset their income with enough undocumented expenses to qualify for almost full financial aid according to the computer. The two week summer vacation up north every summer must qualify as a business expense. Being seen on island is important.

And it’s not really about kindness. Maybe if you are someone to whom these tuitions are no big deal, you can think of it as being kind to not care who gets it. But if you’re someone who has saved and continues to live frugally to be able afford these tuitions, it smarts a little to think about people cheating the system. Most people fully believe in aid for families who genuinely qualify - seems reasonable to not support it for grifters.

Clarity makes a recommendation. The school FA administrator then reviews the application and makes the final decision.

This. The schools use Clarity to gather data and crunch numbers, but the humans review and make the final decision.