Financial Aid Fraud

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It might help if people understood what FA is from the standpoint of the school and why they have the program.

It appears that some think it is some sort of welfare program. It is not. It is an enrollment management tool that allows the school to fill all the seats with a class that best addresses the varied needs of all the constituencies on campus.

A "no FA approach" would produce classes that include too many kids that are going to be academic and behavioral problems (Yes, rich people do have kids with academic and social problems)

Full Pay parents really wouldn't like a school filled with only full pay kids. It has to do with the quality of the student body.

The impact on the school would be fewer top students and athletic stars whose families can't quite afford full list price. (The average FA is 50% of tuition)

It has nothing to do with the benefits of rubbing elbows with the middle class or lower middle class and everything to do with sitting next to bright, motivated kids in class. And it helps keep down the number of the "entitled" in the classes.

I really don't think this is true. These schools hold kids to the same admissions standards regardless of FA status. When the acceptance rate is close to 20%, these schools already have a talented applicant pool to choose from. Why wouldn't reducing FA actually result in a better class with families who are more invested in the school?

Where did you get the 20% number from?

You are aware that Admissions tries hard to generate as many applications as possible, even though they know that these have little chance of success because they come from marginal students that sometimes need significant FA. Admissions and the rest of the school are incented to suggest the rate is very low as it suggest school quality and exclusivity.

Suppose the real number was like 50% or 75%? Then your analysis falls apart, doesn't it?

The market --- those who are academically qualified, can afford to pay tuition and want to go to one of these schools --- is much, much smaller than you think it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If anything, the kids admitted full pay are academically inferior. It's 100% the case at the school my kids attend(ed). Most of the full pay and certainly the full pay plus development money kids are in the bottom 50% of the class.

The FA kids who are admitted in 9th grade who are not athletes are almost always the academic stars of the grades and the eventual Ivy admits. The schools need them to subsidize the rich lifer kids' test scores and eventual college results and in turn, the rich kids subsidize their tuition.

Certainly none of this is to a person but it is absolutely a general trend.

Wild that you say this because we see the exact opposite. The full pay families with the resources to invest in their kids get the best results. Those kids also tend to be the legacies and hooked kids, however they are groomed for college admissions since K and it really shows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It might help if people understood what FA is from the standpoint of the school and why they have the program.

It appears that some think it is some sort of welfare program. It is not. It is an enrollment management tool that allows the school to fill all the seats with a class that best addresses the varied needs of all the constituencies on campus.

A "no FA approach" would produce classes that include too many kids that are going to be academic and behavioral problems (Yes, rich people do have kids with academic and social problems)

Full Pay parents really wouldn't like a school filled with only full pay kids. It has to do with the quality of the student body.

The impact on the school would be fewer top students and athletic stars whose families can't quite afford full list price. (The average FA is 50% of tuition)

It has nothing to do with the benefits of rubbing elbows with the middle class or lower middle class and everything to do with sitting next to bright, motivated kids in class. And it helps keep down the number of the "entitled" in the classes.

I really don't think this is true. These schools hold kids to the same admissions standards regardless of FA status. When the acceptance rate is close to 20%, these schools already have a talented applicant pool to choose from. Why wouldn't reducing FA actually result in a better class with families who are more invested in the school?

Where did you get the 20% number from?

You are aware that Admissions tries hard to generate as many applications as possible, even though they know that these have little chance of success because they come from marginal students that sometimes need significant FA. Admissions and the rest of the school are incented to suggest the rate is very low as it suggest school quality and exclusivity.

Suppose the real number was like 50% or 75%? Then your analysis falls apart, doesn't it?

The market --- those who are academically qualified, can afford to pay tuition and want to go to one of these schools --- is much, much smaller than you think it is.

Our school is approx 15% so I rounded up. The application fees already weed out some of the applicants with little chance of success. I think the qualified pool is larger than you estimate but yes not all applicants are good ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If anything, the kids admitted full pay are academically inferior. It's 100% the case at the school my kids attend(ed). Most of the full pay and certainly the full pay plus development money kids are in the bottom 50% of the class.

The FA kids who are admitted in 9th grade who are not athletes are almost always the academic stars of the grades and the eventual Ivy admits. The schools need them to subsidize the rich lifer kids' test scores and eventual college results and in turn, the rich kids subsidize their tuition.

Certainly none of this is to a person but it is absolutely a general trend.

This is the case at our school too. The academic leaders in the class are the children of public school teachers and federal employees. The families donating new classrooms are not the ones with kids getting a awards, and they're often the ones whose kids are in trouble a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If anything, the kids admitted full pay are academically inferior. It's 100% the case at the school my kids attend(ed). Most of the full pay and certainly the full pay plus development money kids are in the bottom 50% of the class.

The FA kids who are admitted in 9th grade who are not athletes are almost always the academic stars of the grades and the eventual Ivy admits. The schools need them to subsidize the rich lifer kids' test scores and eventual college results and in turn, the rich kids subsidize their tuition.

Certainly none of this is to a person but it is absolutely a general trend.

This is the case at our school too. The academic leaders in the class are the children of public school teachers and federal employees. The families donating new classrooms are not the ones with kids getting a awards, and they're often the ones whose kids are in trouble a lot.

While I wish this were true, in my experience it is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If anything, the kids admitted full pay are academically inferior. It's 100% the case at the school my kids attend(ed). Most of the full pay and certainly the full pay plus development money kids are in the bottom 50% of the class.

The FA kids who are admitted in 9th grade who are not athletes are almost always the academic stars of the grades and the eventual Ivy admits. The schools need them to subsidize the rich lifer kids' test scores and eventual college results and in turn, the rich kids subsidize their tuition.

Certainly none of this is to a person but it is absolutely a general trend.

This is the case at our school too. The academic leaders in the class are the children of public school teachers and federal employees. The families donating new classrooms are not the ones with kids getting a awards, and they're often the ones whose kids are in trouble a lot.

While I wish this were true, in my experience it is not.

Which part is not true in your experience?
If you have full-pay students doing well, I believe you and I'm happy for them.
If you have FA kids not doing well... why is your school giving them FA? It's not like there's a shortage of poor kids who can excel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know- it bothers me too that the kids that receive financial aid still wear UGG boots. So wrong.

Same thing happens with people on welfare.

[Anonymous]

We paid 50% tuition. Kid admitted in 9th, got 1590, took absolute hardest classes, admitted to HYP. Paid for by the wealthy families who paid the $57k for 14 years for their kids to max out at 1450 after 4 attempts and head to Tulane. Crass to say but this is how it works. Know a half dozen kids like this. The whole house of cards stands up because the mediocre rich kids can't get into elite schools and the next generation won't pony up the $57k for 12-14 years if the school doesn't produce these admits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We paid 50% tuition. Kid admitted in 9th, got 1590, took absolute hardest classes, admitted to HYP. Paid for by the wealthy families who paid the $57k for 14 years for their kids to max out at 1450 after 4 attempts and head to Tulane. Crass to say but this is how it works. Know a half dozen kids like this. The whole house of cards stands up because the mediocre rich kids can't get into elite schools and the next generation won't pony up the $57k for 12-14 years if the school doesn't produce these admits.

You show zero gratitude for the private school that provided you with a large financial aid package and made your kid so successful.

You are an absolute embarrassment and should be ashamed of yourself. This was all made possible by the school community you describe.

Please pay back every penny of financial aid you received, in donations to that school. Give another child the same opportunity your child had.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We paid 50% tuition. Kid admitted in 9th, got 1590, took absolute hardest classes, admitted to HYP. Paid for by the wealthy families who paid the $57k for 14 years for their kids to max out at 1450 after 4 attempts and head to Tulane. Crass to say but this is how it works. Know a half dozen kids like this. The whole house of cards stands up because the mediocre rich kids can't get into elite schools and the next generation won't pony up the $57k for 12-14 years if the school doesn't produce these admits.

You show zero gratitude for the private school that provided you with a large financial aid package and made your kid so successful.

You are an absolute embarrassment and should be ashamed of yourself. This was all made possible by the school community you describe.

Please pay back every penny of financial aid you received, in donations to that school. Give another child the same opportunity your child had.

No I have a tremendous amount of gratitude as does everyone I know in my position. And I donate to the school and donate extensively to the community-at-large. It's the same with athletes. Do you think they bring them in on aid for 9th grade because they care about having a top cross country team or field hockey or soccer team? No, it's be said they can get recruits into top colleges. Look, just being born to parents who can fork out $60k/year for school does not an elite student or athlete make. So schools import the kids for high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We paid 50% tuition. Kid admitted in 9th, got 1590, took absolute hardest classes, admitted to HYP. Paid for by the wealthy families who paid the $57k for 14 years for their kids to max out at 1450 after 4 attempts and head to Tulane. Crass to say but this is how it works. Know a half dozen kids like this. The whole house of cards stands up because the mediocre rich kids can't get into elite schools and the next generation won't pony up the $57k for 12-14 years if the school doesn't produce these admits.

You show zero gratitude for the private school that provided you with a large financial aid package and made your kid so successful.

You are an absolute embarrassment and should be ashamed of yourself. This was all made possible by the school community you describe.

Please pay back every penny of financial aid you received, in donations to that school. Give another child the same opportunity your child had.

No I have a tremendous amount of gratitude as does everyone I know in my position. And I donate to the school and donate extensively to the community-at-large. It's the same with athletes. Do you think they bring them in on aid for 9th grade because they care about having a top cross country team or field hockey or soccer team? No, it's be said they can get recruits into top colleges. Look, just being born to parents who can fork out $60k/year for school does not an elite student or athlete make. So schools import the kids for high school.

Perhaps one difference is that the full pay kids don’t view life as an academic hunger games style knife fight. Their success in life doesn’t hinge on HYP. They know themselves and what they want in life. They are perhaps more successful because of it, even if they do go to Tulane. You have a warped view of the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it unethical to charge different prices to different people for the same product. FA is an unfair, discriminatory program.

Do you realize how many industries charge different customers different prices?

True. Gas stations, grocery stores, plumbers, general contractors, house cleaners, nannies, landscapers, healthcare, insurance of every variety, etc. etc.

That really isn’t similar at all.

Schools request a packet of information about their consumer, the parents, before deciding on a price. How is that okay?

The price is set. The information is to determine if there is a discount.

Private schools are not businesses; they do not seek profit or try to maximize revenue. They have a charitable purpose and are more interested in the $50 million tax deductible donation than the $50,000 non-deductible tuition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it unethical to charge different prices to different people for the same product. FA is an unfair, discriminatory program.

Do you realize how many industries charge different customers different prices?

True. Gas stations, grocery stores, plumbers, general contractors, house cleaners, nannies, landscapers, healthcare, insurance of every variety, etc. etc.

That really isn’t similar at all.

Schools request a packet of information about their consumer, the parents, before deciding on a price. How is that okay?

The price is set. The information is to determine if there is a discount.

Private schools are not businesses; they do not seek profit or try to maximize revenue. They have a charitable purpose and are more interested in the $50 million tax deductible donation than the $50,000 non-deductible tuition.

You are totally wrong. The price includes the discount if there is one. Also, private schools absolutely are businesses. A non-profit is still a business. Good lord.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We paid 50% tuition. Kid admitted in 9th, got 1590, took absolute hardest classes, admitted to HYP. Paid for by the wealthy families who paid the $57k for 14 years for their kids to max out at 1450 after 4 attempts and head to Tulane. Crass to say but this is how it works. Know a half dozen kids like this. The whole house of cards stands up because the mediocre rich kids can't get into elite schools and the next generation won't pony up the $57k for 12-14 years if the school doesn't produce these admits.

You show zero gratitude for the private school that provided you with a large financial aid package and made your kid so successful.

You are an absolute embarrassment and should be ashamed of yourself. This was all made possible by the school community you describe.

Please pay back every penny of financial aid you received, in donations to that school. Give another child the same opportunity your child had.

No I have a tremendous amount of gratitude as does everyone I know in my position. And I donate to the school and donate extensively to the community-at-large. It's the same with athletes. Do you think they bring them in on aid for 9th grade because they care about having a top cross country team or field hockey or soccer team? No, it's be said they can get recruits into top colleges. Look, just being born to parents who can fork out $60k/year for school does not an elite student or athlete make. So schools import the kids for high school.

Perhaps one difference is that the full pay kids don’t view life as an academic hunger games style knife fight. Their success in life doesn’t hinge on HYP. They know themselves and what they want in life. They are perhaps more successful because of it, even if they do go to Tulane. You have a warped view of the world.

lol.
So what you're saying is kids who come from wealthy families don't feel the pressure to succeed or make money when compared to kids who are not wealthy and this nuanced world view is to be admired. In other words, all kids should definitely insist on being born to wealthy parents. Gotcha. Stupid middle class strivers! Next go-around they'll insist on wealthy parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We paid 50% tuition. Kid admitted in 9th, got 1590, took absolute hardest classes, admitted to HYP. Paid for by the wealthy families who paid the $57k for 14 years for their kids to max out at 1450 after 4 attempts and head to Tulane. Crass to say but this is how it works. Know a half dozen kids like this. The whole house of cards stands up because the mediocre rich kids can't get into elite schools and the next generation won't pony up the $57k for 12-14 years if the school doesn't produce these admits.

You show zero gratitude for the private school that provided you with a large financial aid package and made your kid so successful.

You are an absolute embarrassment and should be ashamed of yourself. This was all made possible by the school community you describe.

Please pay back every penny of financial aid you received, in donations to that school. Give another child the same opportunity your child had.

No I have a tremendous amount of gratitude as does everyone I know in my position. And I donate to the school and donate extensively to the community-at-large. It's the same with athletes. Do you think they bring them in on aid for 9th grade because they care about having a top cross country team or field hockey or soccer team? No, it's be said they can get recruits into top colleges. Look, just being born to parents who can fork out $60k/year for school does not an elite student or athlete make. So schools import the kids for high school.

Perhaps one difference is that the full pay kids don’t view life as an academic hunger games style knife fight. Their success in life doesn’t hinge on HYP. They know themselves and what they want in life. They are perhaps more successful because of it, even if they do go to Tulane. You have a warped view of the world.

Sure, if you're financially set for life, who cares where you go to school. But your response is really funny in light of the relentless posting on here about the "worth" of private school being measured in college outcomes.

The school is a business, not a charity. Its customers want to see certain college admissions stats. And most schools accomplish those stats by importing kids who will happily enter an academic knife fight, because it's a ticket they wouldn't otherwise have. Their tuition is subsidized by the people who are too rich to care. And the people on the edge of both groups - not rich enough to not care, but for whatever reason not getting FA - are continually mad about it.