Financial Aid Fraud

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:School administrator here. There is an ugliness and ignorance in this thread. Those who are begrudging families receiving financial aid are actually the ones who are wildly out of sync with school culture.

1. It is not accurate that most families want to get rid of financial aid. I work in school philanthropy and it's the #1 reason that the biggest donors cite when contributing to the annual fund. There's a benefit, as another poster said, to every student to having socio-economic diversity in the community. These students will graduate into a world with income disparity. They need the skills and awareness to communicate with others outside their economic class in order to function in their careers.

2. Why do you care what someone else's children wear? If they found a way to buy name brands cheaply, good for them! They don't owe it to you to spend every last minute trying to increase their income. There's a lot of wealth in these schools, and children who receive financial aid are surrounded by evidence of affluence. If they can wear a North Face jacket and feel more like they fit in, that's wonderful. They're still not going to be able to brag about skiing in Switzerland over winter break, which is what they hear other kids doing.

3. For those two parents working in low-paying nonprofit jobs? Good for them. Yes, the financial aid program wants to support those families! And they are often the ones who volunteer and bring the knowledge about how to run a sustainable non-profit (like the school itself) to their school committees, boards, parents associations.

4. A family getting a "sibling discount?" Why not? We love those families, so long as all the kids can meet the admissions standards. And when you apply $55K per tuition times 3 kids, and then do the math on the pre-tax income needed to support that? It means you can make a good income and still qualify for assistance.

5. I doubt very much there's any fraud going on. FAFSA and the business office know a lot more than you about a family's finances, job situation, etc.

Just by kind, OP, and stay out of it.

Thank you for sharing this. As an FA family, these threads are always troubling to see

Why? Wouldn’t you also want to eliminate fraud in the FA system?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is accurate that most parents want to get rid of financial aid. While big donors might be okay with it, the average parent paying full tuition knows that they are paying more because the financial aid program is using up a large part of the budget and those funds are desperately needed elsewhere or could be used to decrease tuition significantly for full pay families.

Do you have any data to support your assertion that most parents want to get rid of financial aid? Please post it, if you do. Also, most schools show on their websites how much financial aid they give, so prospective parents can’t complain that they didn’t know about it. If they think it’s unfair to them, they can choose another school.

Ask the parents at your school in a setting where you can get an honest response. The financial aid budget is a large part of the annual budget. Full pay tuition is used to meet this budget.

Your repeated answer seems to be that you know the majority of people do not want financial aid to exist because you and the parents you’ve talked to don’t. Well, I and the parents I’ve talked to have no issue with it, and support the school providing FA to families. Now, maybe we are at two different schools that just happen to have two different prevailing beliefs. Or maybe not everyone has the same view. I don’t assume that my friend group represents the entire school population. You seem to think yours does.

If that’s really accurate, you should have no trouble organizing a petition or something to ask your school to stop offering FA. If as you say, there is truly an overwhelming number of parents who do not support it, there’s certainly no need for a school to offer it, and in fact it makes little financial sense to do so if neither wanted nor needed.

Very well written.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is accurate that most parents want to get rid of financial aid. While big donors might be okay with it, the average parent paying full tuition knows that they are paying more because the financial aid program is using up a large part of the budget and those funds are desperately needed elsewhere or could be used to decrease tuition significantly for full pay families.

Do you have any data to support your assertion that most parents want to get rid of financial aid? Please post it, if you do. Also, most schools show on their websites how much financial aid they give, so prospective parents can’t complain that they didn’t know about it. If they think it’s unfair to them, they can choose another school.

Ask the parents at your school in a setting where you can get an honest response. The financial aid budget is a large part of the annual budget. Full pay tuition is used to meet this budget.

Your repeated answer seems to be that you know the majority of people do not want financial aid to exist because you and the parents you’ve talked to don’t. Well, I and the parents I’ve talked to have no issue with it, and support the school providing FA to families. Now, maybe we are at two different schools that just happen to have two different prevailing beliefs. Or maybe not everyone has the same view. I don’t assume that my friend group represents the entire school population. You seem to think yours does.

If that’s really accurate, you should have no trouble organizing a petition or something to ask your school to stop offering FA. If as you say, there is truly an overwhelming number of parents who do not support it, there’s certainly no need for a school to offer it, and in fact it makes little financial sense to do so if neither wanted nor needed.

It is easier to go through the board in the context of annual tuition increases and optimizing the budget.

+1 this is how you reduce the FA budget

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:School administrator here. There is an ugliness and ignorance in this thread. Those who are begrudging families receiving financial aid are actually the ones who are wildly out of sync with school culture.

1. It is not accurate that most families want to get rid of financial aid. I work in school philanthropy and it's the #1 reason that the biggest donors cite when contributing to the annual fund. There's a benefit, as another poster said, to every student to having socio-economic diversity in the community. These students will graduate into a world with income disparity. They need the skills and awareness to communicate with others outside their economic class in order to function in their careers.

2. Why do you care what someone else's children wear? If they found a way to buy name brands cheaply, good for them! They don't owe it to you to spend every last minute trying to increase their income. There's a lot of wealth in these schools, and children who receive financial aid are surrounded by evidence of affluence. If they can wear a North Face jacket and feel more like they fit in, that's wonderful. They're still not going to be able to brag about skiing in Switzerland over winter break, which is what they hear other kids doing.

3. For those two parents working in low-paying nonprofit jobs? Good for them. Yes, the financial aid program wants to support those families! And they are often the ones who volunteer and bring the knowledge about how to run a sustainable non-profit (like the school itself) to their school committees, boards, parents associations.

4. A family getting a "sibling discount?" Why not? We love those families, so long as all the kids can meet the admissions standards. And when you apply $55K per tuition times 3 kids, and then do the math on the pre-tax income needed to support that? It means you can make a good income and still qualify for assistance.

5. I doubt very much there's any fraud going on. FAFSA and the business office know a lot more than you about a family's finances, job situation, etc.

Just by kind, OP, and stay out of it.

Thank you for sharing this. As an FA family, these threads are always troubling to see

Why would this thread be troubling to see if you are honestly receiving financial aid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:School administrator here. There is an ugliness and ignorance in this thread. Those who are begrudging families receiving financial aid are actually the ones who are wildly out of sync with school culture.

1. It is not accurate that most families want to get rid of financial aid. I work in school philanthropy and it's the #1 reason that the biggest donors cite when contributing to the annual fund. There's a benefit, as another poster said, to every student to having socio-economic diversity in the community. These students will graduate into a world with income disparity. They need the skills and awareness to communicate with others outside their economic class in order to function in their careers.

2. Why do you care what someone else's children wear? If they found a way to buy name brands cheaply, good for them! They don't owe it to you to spend every last minute trying to increase their income. There's a lot of wealth in these schools, and children who receive financial aid are surrounded by evidence of affluence. If they can wear a North Face jacket and feel more like they fit in, that's wonderful. They're still not going to be able to brag about skiing in Switzerland over winter break, which is what they hear other kids doing.

3. For those two parents working in low-paying nonprofit jobs? Good for them. Yes, the financial aid program wants to support those families! And they are often the ones who volunteer and bring the knowledge about how to run a sustainable non-profit (like the school itself) to their school committees, boards, parents associations.

4. A family getting a "sibling discount?" Why not? We love those families, so long as all the kids can meet the admissions standards. And when you apply $55K per tuition times 3 kids, and then do the math on the pre-tax income needed to support that? It means you can make a good income and still qualify for assistance.

5. I doubt very much there's any fraud going on. FAFSA and the business office know a lot more than you about a family's finances, job situation, etc.

Just by kind, OP, and stay out of it.

Thank you for sharing this. As an FA family, these threads are always troubling to see

Why would this thread be troubling to see if you are honestly receiving financial aid?

Not an FA family, but I assume the comments about how everyone wants to eliminate financial aid for everyone would be concerning? And I assume feeling like your children’s clothing is being scrutinized by their peers’ parents who decide if they look poor enough to deserve aid is troubling too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is accurate that most parents want to get rid of financial aid. While big donors might be okay with it, the average parent paying full tuition knows that they are paying more because the financial aid program is using up a large part of the budget and those funds are desperately needed elsewhere or could be used to decrease tuition significantly for full pay families.

Do you have any data to support your assertion that most parents want to get rid of financial aid? Please post it, if you do. Also, most schools show on their websites how much financial aid they give, so prospective parents can’t complain that they didn’t know about it. If they think it’s unfair to them, they can choose another school.

Ask the parents at your school in a setting where you can get an honest response. The financial aid budget is a large part of the annual budget. Full pay tuition is used to meet this budget.

So you don’t have any data to support your assertion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is accurate that most parents want to get rid of financial aid. While big donors might be okay with it, the average parent paying full tuition knows that they are paying more because the financial aid program is using up a large part of the budget and those funds are desperately needed elsewhere or could be used to decrease tuition significantly for full pay families.

Do you have any data to support your assertion that most parents want to get rid of financial aid? Please post it, if you do. Also, most schools show on their websites how much financial aid they give, so prospective parents can’t complain that they didn’t know about it. If they think it’s unfair to them, they can choose another school.

Ask the parents at your school in a setting where you can get an honest response. The financial aid budget is a large part of the annual budget. Full pay tuition is used to meet this budget.

So you don’t have any data to support your assertion.

You are being ridiculous if you want someone to cite a research article.

Look at what percent of the budget the FA program represents. Then look at how rapidly tuition has increased over the past 10 years. Ask any parent if they think the FA program is worth the cost, which gets passed onto the full pay families at your school, or if they would rather eliminate it and decrease tuition for everybody.

What you have is a program that overcharges most parents and cherry picks a small portion of parents for discounts. The FA parents contribute less to the school. Often A LOT less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:School administrator here. There is an ugliness and ignorance in this thread. Those who are begrudging families receiving financial aid are actually the ones who are wildly out of sync with school culture.

1. It is not accurate that most families want to get rid of financial aid. I work in school philanthropy and it's the #1 reason that the biggest donors cite when contributing to the annual fund. There's a benefit, as another poster said, to every student to having socio-economic diversity in the community. These students will graduate into a world with income disparity. They need the skills and awareness to communicate with others outside their economic class in order to function in their careers.

2. Why do you care what someone else's children wear? If they found a way to buy name brands cheaply, good for them! They don't owe it to you to spend every last minute trying to increase their income. There's a lot of wealth in these schools, and children who receive financial aid are surrounded by evidence of affluence. If they can wear a North Face jacket and feel more like they fit in, that's wonderful. They're still not going to be able to brag about skiing in Switzerland over winter break, which is what they hear other kids doing.

3. For those two parents working in low-paying nonprofit jobs? Good for them. Yes, the financial aid program wants to support those families! And they are often the ones who volunteer and bring the knowledge about how to run a sustainable non-profit (like the school itself) to their school committees, boards, parents associations.

4. A family getting a "sibling discount?" Why not? We love those families, so long as all the kids can meet the admissions standards. And when you apply $55K per tuition times 3 kids, and then do the math on the pre-tax income needed to support that? It means you can make a good income and still qualify for assistance.

5. I doubt very much there's any fraud going on. FAFSA and the business office know a lot more than you about a family's finances, job situation, etc.

Just by kind, OP, and stay out of it.

Thank you for sharing this. As an FA family, these threads are always troubling to see

Why would this thread be troubling to see if you are honestly receiving financial aid?

Not an FA family, but I assume the comments about how everyone wants to eliminate financial aid for everyone would be concerning? And I assume feeling like your children’s clothing is being scrutinized by their peers’ parents who decide if they look poor enough to deserve aid is troubling too.

What on earth are FA recipients doing in expensive, designer clothing?

[Anonymous]

I find it unethical to charge different prices to different people for the same product. FA is an unfair, discriminatory program.

[Anonymous]

DH stopped giving to school indiscriminately after the increase in tuition over a 4 year period. We could afford the tuition, but with 3 DC it was not without significant sacrifices. Both of us worked a second PT job for years to save money until DHs business started making $.
I am happy to support capital projects, very happy to support service initiatives and teacher enrichment. I am glad there is FA but I don’t support it going predominantly to support athletic programs. Purely need based, certainly; academic supports, music and arts programs, absolutely- but the amount of $ to support the athletic programs is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find it unethical to charge different prices to different people for the same product. FA is an unfair, discriminatory program.

Are you sending your children to a school you believe is unethical?

Why?

You should pick a different school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:School administrator here. There is an ugliness and ignorance in this thread. Those who are begrudging families receiving financial aid are actually the ones who are wildly out of sync with school culture.

1. It is not accurate that most families want to get rid of financial aid. I work in school philanthropy and it's the #1 reason that the biggest donors cite when contributing to the annual fund. There's a benefit, as another poster said, to every student to having socio-economic diversity in the community. These students will graduate into a world with income disparity. They need the skills and awareness to communicate with others outside their economic class in order to function in their careers.

2. Why do you care what someone else's children wear? If they found a way to buy name brands cheaply, good for them! They don't owe it to you to spend every last minute trying to increase their income. There's a lot of wealth in these schools, and children who receive financial aid are surrounded by evidence of affluence. If they can wear a North Face jacket and feel more like they fit in, that's wonderful. They're still not going to be able to brag about skiing in Switzerland over winter break, which is what they hear other kids doing.

3. For those two parents working in low-paying nonprofit jobs? Good for them. Yes, the financial aid program wants to support those families! And they are often the ones who volunteer and bring the knowledge about how to run a sustainable non-profit (like the school itself) to their school committees, boards, parents associations.

4. A family getting a "sibling discount?" Why not? We love those families, so long as all the kids can meet the admissions standards. And when you apply $55K per tuition times 3 kids, and then do the math on the pre-tax income needed to support that? It means you can make a good income and still qualify for assistance.

5. I doubt very much there's any fraud going on. FAFSA and the business office know a lot more than you about a family's finances, job situation, etc.

Just by kind, OP, and stay out of it.

Thank you for sharing this. As an FA family, these threads are always troubling to see

Why would this thread be troubling to see if you are honestly receiving financial aid?

Not an FA family, but I assume the comments about how everyone wants to eliminate financial aid for everyone would be concerning? And I assume feeling like your children’s clothing is being scrutinized by their peers’ parents who decide if they look poor enough to deserve aid is troubling too.

What on earth are FA recipients doing in expensive, designer clothing?

yes! The $100 pair of Uggs must be returned and put towards the $56K tuition bill!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:School administrator here. There is an ugliness and ignorance in this thread. Those who are begrudging families receiving financial aid are actually the ones who are wildly out of sync with school culture.

1. It is not accurate that most families want to get rid of financial aid. I work in school philanthropy and it's the #1 reason that the biggest donors cite when contributing to the annual fund. There's a benefit, as another poster said, to every student to having socio-economic diversity in the community. These students will graduate into a world with income disparity. They need the skills and awareness to communicate with others outside their economic class in order to function in their careers.

2. Why do you care what someone else's children wear? If they found a way to buy name brands cheaply, good for them! They don't owe it to you to spend every last minute trying to increase their income. There's a lot of wealth in these schools, and children who receive financial aid are surrounded by evidence of affluence. If they can wear a North Face jacket and feel more like they fit in, that's wonderful. They're still not going to be able to brag about skiing in Switzerland over winter break, which is what they hear other kids doing.

3. For those two parents working in low-paying nonprofit jobs? Good for them. Yes, the financial aid program wants to support those families! And they are often the ones who volunteer and bring the knowledge about how to run a sustainable non-profit (like the school itself) to their school committees, boards, parents associations.

4. A family getting a "sibling discount?" Why not? We love those families, so long as all the kids can meet the admissions standards. And when you apply $55K per tuition times 3 kids, and then do the math on the pre-tax income needed to support that? It means you can make a good income and still qualify for assistance.

5. I doubt very much there's any fraud going on. FAFSA and the business office know a lot more than you about a family's finances, job situation, etc.

Just by kind, OP, and stay out of it.

Thank you for sharing this. As an FA family, these threads are always troubling to see

Why would this thread be troubling to see if you are honestly receiving financial aid?

Not an FA family, but I assume the comments about how everyone wants to eliminate financial aid for everyone would be concerning? And I assume feeling like your children’s clothing is being scrutinized by their peers’ parents who decide if they look poor enough to deserve aid is troubling too.

What on earth are FA recipients doing in expensive, designer clothing?

It suggests fraud by the parents. Like a church pastor driving a ferrari. It is a clear sign of fraud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it unethical to charge different prices to different people for the same product. FA is an unfair, discriminatory program.

Are you sending your children to a school you believe is unethical?

Why?

You should pick a different school.

It is not a single issue decision, obviously. We are working to reduce the size of the FA program.

[Anonymous]

It might help if people understood what FA is from the standpoint of the school and why they have the program.

It appears that some think it is some sort of welfare program. It is not. It is an enrollment management tool that allows the school to fill all the seats with a class that best addresses the varied needs of all the constituencies on campus.

A "no FA approach" would produce classes that include too many kids that are going to be academic and behavioral problems (Yes, rich people do have kids with academic and social problems)

Full Pay parents really wouldn't like a school filled with only full pay kids. It has to do with the quality of the student body.

The impact on the school would be fewer top students and athletic stars whose families can't quite afford full list price. (The average FA is 50% of tuition)

It has nothing to do with the benefits of rubbing elbows with the middle class or lower middle class and everything to do with sitting next to bright, motivated kids in class. And it helps keep down the number of the "entitled" in the classes.