The Great Student Swap

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is the math plain and simple. VA has more high stat kids than UVA, VT and W&M can admit in any given year.

Other state flagships want to bring in the best students they can, often are much larger than VA universities and don’t have as many highly qualified students in their home state.

Many OOS flagships sweeten the pot with tuition discounts/merit aid so a win/win for both parties.

You write this as if neither the state nor the schools has any control over the number of students they educate or the price they charge. Virginia could have enough seats to educate all their high-performing students in-state if that was something the state valued.

VA has a breadth of excellent universities but in the end, top students only want UVA or VT or W&M. Of the 3 only VT can really grow in capacity at the main campus. Students want main campus accommodations, exactly why UVA-Wise will never take off and Penn State is closing a number of satellite campus locations.

If students can’t get into UVA they take the consolation prize and enjoy 4 years at Georgia, with money for grad school.

No brainer really.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is the math plain and simple. VA has more high stat kids than UVA, VT and W&M can admit in any given year.

Other state flagships want to bring in the best students they can, often are much larger than VA universities and don’t have as many highly qualified students in their home state.

Many OOS flagships sweeten the pot with tuition discounts/merit aid so a win/win for both parties.

You write this as if neither the state nor the schools has any control over the number of students they educate or the price they charge. Virginia could have enough seats to educate all their high-performing students in-state if that was something the state valued.

You are wrong. The Commonwealth of Virginia funds 41 public institutions of higher learning, which includes the very generous guaranteed transfer program community colleges to its four year institutions. The Commonwealth is currently pushing billions of dollars into growing those institutions like GMU (now the largest R1 University in the Commonwealth wealth) , which can still develop (you didn’t know it has five campuses, did you? One in Korea). It’s also recently opened a UVA campus in Arlington. Name one other state tge size of Virginia that does what Virginia does for its college bound residents. Only CA and Texas are more expansive but they are much larger states. Wisconsin and Michigan just offer the top flagship, not the breadth and variety that Virginia does.

Holy drive-by Spartan erasure, Batman! Not to mention EMU, WMU, Wayne State, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only Illinois kids who go to University of Missouri are those who didn’t get in to UIUC.

U of Missouri was just an example. For decades, Illinois kids have been flocking to U of Iowa, Indiana U. Purdue, Michigan, Wisconsin, Notre Dame. U of Nebraska has a lot too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It does seem stupid, but I guess these kids want to get as far away from their parents as possible.

It’s not unusual to want to see a new place & meet new people.

If they go to U of Illinois, they will end up hanging around many of the same kids they knew in high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In-state at William and Mary costs $43k (tuition, room/board). Likelihood of getting merit is slim if in-state.

OOS at a flagship with merit for my DS is $40k (tuition, room and board). Likelihood of getting merit for OOS is high for students with decent stats.

Or look for private schools that offer good financial aid. My kid received excellent financial aid from a top-50 private school, and the total four-year cost was lower than UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only Illinois kids who go to University of Missouri are those who didn’t get in to UIUC.

U of Missouri was just an example. For decades, Illinois kids have been flocking to U of Iowa, Indiana U. Purdue, Michigan, Wisconsin, Notre Dame. U of Nebraska has a lot too.

Yep, my CS kid is almost certainly not getting into UIUC, it’s his first choice though. Likely will go to Iowa or Nebraska with merit bring it to the same or less than Illinois.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the other school in a diffwewnt state has a program that is better for that major.

+1 that was my kid's case. Very niche major. MD is a tiny state, with not many options to begin with. For my other DC who is a CS major, UMD was perfect. Very happy there, and thriving now. Has a great internship lined up for the summer.

[Anonymous]

My kid also went out of state to a different state flagship that had his exact niche major. Admittedly, he also did not want HS 2.0. And yes of course he could have avoided people from high school at big state school, but after a not great high school experience, he wanted a fresh start. To me, that excitement and optimism - in combination with the perfect fit major-wise - was worth paying for. Kid is VERY happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid also went out of state to a different state flagship that had his exact niche major. Admittedly, he also did not want HS 2.0. And yes of course he could have avoided people from high school at big state school, but after a not great high school experience, he wanted a fresh start. To me, that excitement and optimism - in combination with the perfect fit major-wise - was worth paying for. Kid is VERY happy.

I'm the PP with a kid in the same situation -- they are so looking forward to leaving HS and starting at the oos college. This is what they are now focusing on.

They are already depressed and have been seeing a therapist for a few years. Having to go in state would've made the depression worse, IMO, where tons of kids from their HS go to this in state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the past two decades, though, the University of Alabama has transformed its student body, increasing its share of new out-of-state undergraduates from just twenty-three per cent in 2002 to sixty-five per cent in 2022, according to recent data from the National Center for Education Statistics.

Alabama gives free tuition plus stipend plus master’s plus honors college and more to NMF. That probably increases out of state attendance. It wasn’t enough to interest my NMF in going to Alabama, though.

My NMF chose Bama and is doing very well. The NMF cohort there is very engaged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the past two decades, though, the University of Alabama has transformed its student body, increasing its share of new out-of-state undergraduates from just twenty-three per cent in 2002 to sixty-five per cent in 2022, according to recent data from the National Center for Education Statistics.

Alabama gives free tuition plus stipend plus master’s plus honors college and more to NMF. That probably increases out of state attendance. It wasn’t enough to interest my NMF in going to Alabama, though.

My NMF chose Bama and is doing very well. The NMF cohort there is very engaged.

Can you speak more to this? My HS junior who is likely to make the NM cutoff is looking at Alabama as an option.

[Anonymous]

My MCPS DD didn’t get into UMD, her first choice, but was admitted to UVA and W&M OOS. She wasn’t interested in Towson or St. Mary’s. She was admitted to several SLAC’s with enough merit to bring the cost to $50-60k. But W&M was the right fit for her so we paid full freight ~ $70k. No regrets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In-state at William and Mary costs $43k (tuition, room/board). Likelihood of getting merit is slim if in-state.

OOS at a flagship with merit for my DS is $40k (tuition, room and board). Likelihood of getting merit for OOS is high for students with decent stats.

Or look for private schools that offer good financial aid. My kid received excellent financial aid from a top-50 private school, and the total four-year cost was lower than UVA[b].

Great, but parents say this and never give names. It’s very hard to do with most privates running $94k. Very few of them offer $54k in merit to bring costs down to UVA at $40k. If you can do it, great, but very few schools offer that. Wash & Lee, does, but only for 44 applicants who have demonstrated leadership skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is the math plain and simple. VA has more high stat kids than UVA, VT and W&M can admit in any given year.

Other state flagships want to bring in the best students they can, often are much larger than VA universities and don’t have as many highly qualified students in their home state.

Many OOS flagships sweeten the pot with tuition discounts/merit aid so a win/win for both parties.

You write this as if neither the state nor the schools has any control over the number of students they educate or the price they charge. Virginia could have enough seats to educate all their high-performing students in-state if that was something the state valued.

VA has a breadth of excellent universities but in the end, top students only want UVA or VT or W&M. Of the 3 only VT can really grow in capacity at the main campus. Students want main campus accommodations, exactly why UVA-Wise will never take off and Penn State is closing a number of satellite campus locations.

If students can’t get into UVA they take the consolation prize and enjoy 4 years at Georgia, with money for grad school.

No brainer really.

No, they (“top Students”) can easily go to the three via the community college transfer program or by regular transfer from another four year state or private university. Over 699 students do it every year at UVA. Unfortunately, many Va families eschew the community college easy access because they don’t think about it. We are blessed in VA to have the public college and universities that we do. Btw I know many “top students” who went to GMU and JMU on full scholarship and are now in great law schools because all the law schools want are top GPAs and LSAts which you can get at many of the VA publics. You don’t HAVE to go OPS as a top student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is the math plain and simple. VA has more high stat kids than UVA, VT and W&M can admit in any given year.

Other state flagships want to bring in the best students they can, often are much larger than VA universities and don’t have as many highly qualified students in their home state.

Many OOS flagships sweeten the pot with tuition discounts/merit aid so a win/win for both parties.

You write this as if neither the state nor the schools has any control over the number of students they educate or the price they charge. Virginia could have enough seats to educate all their high-performing students in-state if that was something the state valued.

VA has a breadth of excellent universities but in the end, top students only want UVA or VT or W&M. Of the 3 only VT can really grow in capacity at the main campus. Students want main campus accommodations, exactly why UVA-Wise will never take off and Penn State is closing a number of satellite campus locations.

If students can’t get into UVA they take the consolation prize and enjoy 4 years at Georgia, with money for grad school.

No brainer really.

No, they (“top Students”) can easily go to the three via the community college transfer program or by regular transfer from another four year state or private university. Over 699 students do it every year at UVA. Unfortunately, many Va families eschew the community college easy access because they don’t think about it. We are blessed in VA to have the public college and universities that we do. Btw I know many “top students” who went to GMU and JMU on full scholarship and are now in great law schools because all the law schools want are top GPAs and LSAts which you can get at many of the VA publics. You don’t HAVE to go OPS as a top student.

It’s great you feel “blessed” to have options like community college transfer and GMU. Other Virginians feel blessed to have the opportunity to go OOS. It’s actually ok, different people can do different things.