The Great Student Swap

[Anonymous]

It's sick that instate students can't get into their own lower rated flagship schools than out of state

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC got into UMich Engineering. He did not get into UVA Engineering as a instate resident, but did get into VT.

Same with my niece.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is exactly what we are talking about in our family. If we get money yes, but why else do this. Fascinating story.

"At the average flagship’s main campus, nearly four out of every ten undergraduates now come from another state. New Jersey kids go to Penn State instead of Rutgers; Illinois residents head off to the University of Missouri instead of the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. For students, going to college out of state is a chance to get away from home—and from their high-school classmates—or to experience what they perceive as “big college” life, such as Saturday tailgates and a thriving social scene centered on fraternities and sororities. But it’s the schools themselves that benefit most from this system, as they are able to charge much higher tuition for out-of-state students. Total costs for in-state students at Alabama run $34,600 this academic year; for out-of-state students, the list price is nearing sixty thousand dollars. Though the quality of the school’s football program cannot be denied, many of these students are coming from states such as Illinois, Georgia, and California, which are also known for big universities with prominent football teams, school spirit, and a vibrant Greek life. (Not to mention that at any big public university, you are still likely to encounter tens of thousands of new people who have never even heard of your high school, even if it’s in the same state.) In other words, these students are paying twice as much as they would otherwise—for a similar product."

https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/the-great-student-swap

The fact that they don't realize that students are mainly choosing Bama for its scholarships and therefore are not paying OOS tuition shows how sloppy this article's "research" is.

Umm, it's in the New Yorker, which just had an article on how good its fact checking is. My neice goes to Alabama from Chicago and they pay full price. Still cheaper than UIUC, which she didn't get into anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is exactly what we are talking about in our family. If we get money yes, but why else do this. Fascinating story.

"At the average flagship’s main campus, nearly four out of every ten undergraduates now come from another state. New Jersey kids go to Penn State instead of Rutgers; Illinois residents head off to the University of Missouri instead of the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. For students, going to college out of state is a chance to get away from home—and from their high-school classmates—or to experience what they perceive as “big college” life, such as Saturday tailgates and a thriving social scene centered on fraternities and sororities. But it’s the schools themselves that benefit most from this system, as they are able to charge much higher tuition for out-of-state students. Total costs for in-state students at Alabama run $34,600 this academic year; for out-of-state students, the list price is nearing sixty thousand dollars. Though the quality of the school’s football program cannot be denied, many of these students are coming from states such as Illinois, Georgia, and California, which are also known for big universities with prominent football teams, school spirit, and a vibrant Greek life. (Not to mention that at any big public university, you are still likely to encounter tens of thousands of new people who have never even heard of your high school, even if it’s in the same state.) In other words, these students are paying twice as much as they would otherwise—for a similar product."

https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/the-great-student-swap

The fact that they don't realize that students are mainly choosing Bama for its scholarships and therefore are not paying OOS tuition shows how sloppy this article's "research" is.

Umm, it's in the New Yorker, which just had an article on how good its fact checking is. My neice goes to Alabama from Chicago and they pay full price. Still cheaper than UIUC, which she didn't get into anyway.

How is full pay OOS at Alabama cheaper than in state at UIUC? I just checked and in state tuition and fees at UIUC is max $23,500 while OOS tuition at Alabama is over $34,000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid didn’t apply because he didn’t like the school, but likely couldn’t have gotten into UVA from his high school because the necessary stats are artificially inflated b/c of the high school’s applicant pool, but he got into a higher ranked state flagship in another state. We could afford the tuition so off he went.

Our next DC doesn’t want to stay in VA and wants to go south and our finances haven’t changed so he’ll leave VA too.

Didn’t have the stats for UVA in-state, but go into Berkley, UCLA, or Michigan OOS? Which one? I’m so curious. I thought those were way tougher than UVA.

It’s one of those three. Unhooked kids from DC’s hs pretty much needed an SAT of 1520+ to be competitive for UVA. Not the case at the other 3 (2 of which are test blind).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC got into UMich Engineering. He did not get into UVA Engineering as a instate resident, but did get into VT.

Same with my niece.

UVa Engineering is a much smaller program than engineering at either VT or UMich. Highly competitive admissions as a result.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:States should make peering agreements to cancel OOS tuition, and only charge for the excess net flow in one direction. It’s good to build connections between states.

Some states already have had reciprocity agreements for years (e.g. Wisconsin and Minnesota).

[Anonymous]

If you live in the Northeast, there are plenty of OOS flagships with merit that are comparable in cost to your instate flagship. Also, it’s generally easier to get into a similar caliber OOS flagship because they want OOS money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For state schools with high in-state tuition, losing their best students is a risk they are willing to take. Maybe the state gov't doesn't care, or believe the kids will come back post-grad.

Losing a handful to Alabama isn't a big deal. So many kids these days are high stats it is easy to replace them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only Illinois kids who go to University of Missouri are those who didn’t get in to UIUC.

Same. The only VA kids in our region who go to UGA, Clemson or NCState are the ones who cannot get in to UVA or VT.

Yes but it's not because they don't have the stats, it's because the schools would rather get OOS money from similarly qualified students. Musical chairs where the students lose (or the parents' pocketbook).

Which schools are easier to get into for out of state? Not UVA. Not UGA.

Penn State. Ohio State.

[Anonymous]

Maybe the other school in a diffwewnt state has a program that is better for that major.

[Anonymous]

This topic was recently on the A2C Reddit (not referencing the New Yorker article) and a poster there made some great points about IL, in particular, and NJ is very similar.

In IL there is one big flagship, it is competitive for acceptance especially in certain areas (like Engineering) and it is pretty expensive in-state. Additionally, none of the other public options in IL have a lot of name recognition, or big sports scene and the like. Contrast that with nearby states: Indiana has IU and Purdue, Michigan has UMich and Mich St., even Iowa has U of Iowa and Iowa St. So the IL kids that can't get into UIUC apply to Indiana and Iowa and Mich St and the like, and in many cases it's not that much more $ and it's a less competitive admit.

NJ has a similar situation but maybe *worse*. Rutgers is the only flagship and only state school with any national name recognition, and even then, since it's not "University of NJ" or whatever, some people have no idea it's the NJ flagship university. Many out-of-staters could not name another public NJ university, even though there are plenty. Moreover, because NJ is a high population density state, has a good public transportation system, and Rutgers is basically in the middle of the state, it's an hour (and a train or bus ride) from most of rest of the state. For the same reason, most of the other public options have pretty large commuter populations. So students often don't feel they are "going away", in going to Rutgers, and they don't like the campus experience of the other publics, they just want to experience something different. Also, a lot of the parents are high income and will pay for that OOS experience even though their kid got into Rutgers and it's the better ranked school and has a lot of excellent programs.

Although Rutgers is Big 10 for sports now, it just doesn't have the feel of Big 10. So kids go to Penn St, or down south. Or they go to IU (but only to Kelley or Jacobs) or to Purdue but only for Engineering. Or to CU because they want some mountains. Or to URI or UNH because they couldn't get into Rutgers NB and definitely didn't want to go to Rutgers-Newark. And the schools are happy to take their OOS money, and happy to have them as students because they are often well-prepared for college by their excellent suburban public or magnet school.

Our school publishes a survey every year of the Seniors, and the class of 2025 data showed that only 18% of the college-bound seniors (the vast majority of the class goes to college) were going to in-state schools. All in-state schools combined, not just Rutgers. Which is insanely low. Meanwhile, about half were going to a public university.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is exactly what we are talking about in our family. If we get money yes, but why else do this. Fascinating story.

"At the average flagship’s main campus, nearly four out of every ten undergraduates now come from another state. New Jersey kids go to Penn State instead of Rutgers; Illinois residents head off to the University of Missouri instead of the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. For students, going to college out of state is a chance to get away from home—and from their high-school classmates—or to experience what they perceive as “big college” life, such as Saturday tailgates and a thriving social scene centered on fraternities and sororities. But it’s the schools themselves that benefit most from this system, as they are able to charge much higher tuition for out-of-state students. Total costs for in-state students at Alabama run $34,600 this academic year; for out-of-state students, the list price is nearing sixty thousand dollars. Though the quality of the school’s football program cannot be denied, many of these students are coming from states such as Illinois, Georgia, and California, which are also known for big universities with prominent football teams, school spirit, and a vibrant Greek life. (Not to mention that at any big public university, you are still likely to encounter tens of thousands of new people who have never even heard of your high school, even if it’s in the same state.) In other words, these students are paying twice as much as they would otherwise—for a similar product."

https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/the-great-student-swap

Going to Alabama for 60k instead of a selective private for about that much after aid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you asking why anyone wants to go to a big state school in a different state? It’s not that hard to figure out. Both of my kids want to go out of state. One wants north, one wants south. When we run the numbers, it won’t cost us any different than sending them to a VA state school so it’s no difference to us.

Our one that is a senior now and looking to go south is serious about more sun and better weather. It’s fine with us.

What big state schools charge OOS tuition that's the approximately same as in-state Virginia school tuition? Or are you factoring in merit aid?

Of course you'd factor in merit aid.

People on this board go on and on about comparing the full cost of attendance at schools, without recognizing that, except for a small number of elite privates, most students at most schools aren't paying full cost. The numbers that matter are what you are actually asked to pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is exactly what we are talking about in our family. If we get money yes, but why else do this. Fascinating story.

"At the average flagship’s main campus, nearly four out of every ten undergraduates now come from another state. New Jersey kids go to Penn State instead of Rutgers; Illinois residents head off to the University of Missouri instead of the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. For students, going to college out of state is a chance to get away from home—and from their high-school classmates—or to experience what they perceive as “big college” life, such as Saturday tailgates and a thriving social scene centered on fraternities and sororities. But it’s the schools themselves that benefit most from this system, as they are able to charge much higher tuition for out-of-state students. Total costs for in-state students at Alabama run $34,600 this academic year; for out-of-state students, the list price is nearing sixty thousand dollars. Though the quality of the school’s football program cannot be denied, many of these students are coming from states such as Illinois, Georgia, and California, which are also known for big universities with prominent football teams, school spirit, and a vibrant Greek life. (Not to mention that at any big public university, you are still likely to encounter tens of thousands of new people who have never even heard of your high school, even if it’s in the same state.) In other words, these students are paying twice as much as they would otherwise—for a similar product."

https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/the-great-student-swap

Going to Alabama for 60k instead of a selective private for about that much after aid?

What percentage of OOS students at Alabama pay the full tuition.

The kids I know who go to Alabama are almost universally in one of two situations.

1) They qualify for automatic merit that makes Alabama less expensive than their state flagship.

or

2) They don't have the stats to get into their state flagship.