The Great Student Swap

[Anonymous]

these students are paying twice as much as they would otherwise—for a similar product

Wrong. My student is getting merit aid so the cost in the same as our in-state public, ranked the same. Op, you are not considering that the same student student wouldn't be able to be admitted to our (similarly) ranked in-state public because we are in a densely, college-educated area of the state where only 10% of college bound students are admitted to our in-state flagship. Out of state options are better. Better because they are higher or similarly ranked, and better because - it's an education. It's always better to broaden one's experience.

[Anonymous]

State publics everywhere are enriched by having students from other states attend, by having a diverse student body - in this case, some geographic diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some students are more adventurous than others and prefer exploring a new location in a different state and, possibly, region of the country.

Many who attend their state flagship complain a bit about too many kids from my high school or area.

This is such a trope that some people use to slight kids that go to in-state schools and/or to feel smug about their kids going to OOS schools. As if simply seeing students they know from high school on campus is a terrible thing.

Doesn’t make it less true. A lot of kids hate high school and want to “remake” themselves somewhere else where there aren’t a bunch of kids that knew them before.

State flagships with low percentages of, and/or caps on, OOS students (e.g., University of Tennessee) are more "High School 2.0" than, say, UVA or VT which have at least one-third or more OOS students. You're just at someone else's high school where lots of people know each other and you don't. I've heard several kids at OOS publics complain that some people (not the majority, to be sure) on their halls or in their clubs tend to hang out with students they know from their high school days and it was thus kind of tough to break in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you asking why anyone wants to go to a big state school in a different state? It’s not that hard to figure out. Both of my kids want to go out of state. One wants north, one wants south. When we run the numbers, it won’t cost us any different than sending them to a VA state school so it’s no difference to us.

Our one that is a senior now and looking to go south is serious about more sun and better weather. It’s fine with us.

Given where Project 2025 is you are a terrible parent.

[Anonymous]

DH is from Michigan and attended a top suburban public HS there. At the time Michigan State where his siblings went was for the kids who wanted to relive high school but UMich was not, even though a handful of kids from his HS class went there with him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In-state at William and Mary costs $43k (tuition, room/board). Likelihood of getting merit is slim if in-state.

OOS at a flagship with merit for my DS is $40k (tuition, room and board). Likelihood of getting merit for OOS is high for students with decent stats.

But not a school with comparable academics. You aren’t getting merit at Michigan.

DC attends UT Austin and was able to get residency after 1 year. And it’s much cheaper than VA in state.

[Anonymous]

DC got into UMich Engineering. He did not get into UVA Engineering as a instate resident, but did get into VT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is exactly what we are talking about in our family. If we get money yes, but why else do this. Fascinating story.

"At the average flagship’s main campus, nearly four out of every ten undergraduates now come from another state. New Jersey kids go to Penn State instead of Rutgers; Illinois residents head off to the University of Missouri instead of the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. For students, going to college out of state is a chance to get away from home—and from their high-school classmates—or to experience what they perceive as “big college” life, such as Saturday tailgates and a thriving social scene centered on fraternities and sororities. But it’s the schools themselves that benefit most from this system, as they are able to charge much higher tuition for out-of-state students. Total costs for in-state students at Alabama run $34,600 this academic year; for out-of-state students, the list price is nearing sixty thousand dollars. Though the quality of the school’s football program cannot be denied, many of these students are coming from states such as Illinois, Georgia, and California, which are also known for big universities with prominent football teams, school spirit, and a vibrant Greek life. (Not to mention that at any big public university, you are still likely to encounter tens of thousands of new people who have never even heard of your high school, even if it’s in the same state.) In other words, these students are paying twice as much as they would otherwise—for a similar product."

https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/the-great-student-swap

The fact that they don't realize that students are mainly choosing Bama for its scholarships and therefore are not paying OOS tuition shows how sloppy this article's "research" is.

[Anonymous]

States should make peering agreements to cancel OOS tuition, and only charge for the excess net flow in one direction. It’s good to build connections between states.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is exactly what we are talking about in our family. If we get money yes, but why else do this. Fascinating story.

"At the average flagship’s main campus, nearly four out of every ten undergraduates now come from another state. New Jersey kids go to Penn State instead of Rutgers; Illinois residents head off to the University of Missouri instead of the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. For students, going to college out of state is a chance to get away from home—and from their high-school classmates—or to experience what they perceive as “big college” life, such as Saturday tailgates and a thriving social scene centered on fraternities and sororities. But it’s the schools themselves that benefit most from this system, as they are able to charge much higher tuition for out-of-state students. Total costs for in-state students at Alabama run $34,600 this academic year; for out-of-state students, the list price is nearing sixty thousand dollars. Though the quality of the school’s football program cannot be denied, many of these students are coming from states such as Illinois, Georgia, and California, which are also known for big universities with prominent football teams, school spirit, and a vibrant Greek life. (Not to mention that at any big public university, you are still likely to encounter tens of thousands of new people who have never even heard of your high school, even if it’s in the same state.) In other words, these students are paying twice as much as they would otherwise—for a similar product."

https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/the-great-student-swap

There is no way you can possibly know this. There is no way anyone has access to any of these complete demographics. This is something fun to talk about but not based on any data.

Every school reports OOS numbers.

UMD is a bit under 10% international and 20% other state, 75% in state

[Anonymous]

A lot of students ‘get money’. High achievers pay less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you asking why anyone wants to go to a big state school in a different state? It’s not that hard to figure out. Both of my kids want to go out of state. One wants north, one wants south. When we run the numbers, it won’t cost us any different than sending them to a VA state school so it’s no difference to us.

Our one that is a senior now and looking to go south is serious about more sun and better weather. It’s fine with us.

What big state schools charge OOS tuition that's the approximately same as in-state Virginia school tuition? Or are you factoring in merit aid?

Not sure if by “big” you mean flagship or not, but Western Carolina has ~12k students & OOS tuition is about 10-11k/yr. JMU is about 13k/yr in state

If you do mean flagship, then UVAs is annoyingly variable on major & year but let’s say an average of 20k-ish. University of Oklahoma is $23k/yr OOS

I didn’t deep dive to compare total cost of attendance or auto merit scholarships, but VA’s in-state tuition is pretty high compared to many states.

You can’t really name just tuition. You room and board, mandatory fees, etc. JMU is more like $33k/year instate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is exactly what we are talking about in our family. If we get money yes, but why else do this. Fascinating story.

"At the average flagship’s main campus, nearly four out of every ten undergraduates now come from another state. New Jersey kids go to Penn State instead of Rutgers; Illinois residents head off to the University of Missouri instead of the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. For students, going to college out of state is a chance to get away from home—and from their high-school classmates—or to experience what they perceive as “big college” life, such as Saturday tailgates and a thriving social scene centered on fraternities and sororities. But it’s the schools themselves that benefit most from this system, as they are able to charge much higher tuition for out-of-state students. Total costs for in-state students at Alabama run $34,600 this academic year; for out-of-state students, the list price is nearing sixty thousand dollars. Though the quality of the school’s football program cannot be denied, many of these students are coming from states such as Illinois, Georgia, and California, which are also known for big universities with prominent football teams, school spirit, and a vibrant Greek life. (Not to mention that at any big public university, you are still likely to encounter tens of thousands of new people who have never even heard of your high school, even if it’s in the same state.) In other words, these students are paying twice as much as they would otherwise—for a similar product."

https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/the-great-student-swap

The fact that they don't realize that students are mainly choosing Bama for its scholarships and therefore are not paying OOS tuition shows how sloppy this article's "research" is.

You need to read the article. The author talks about merit at Alabama. What is implied but not explicitly stated is that buying top kids with merit pulls along other full-pay students. This could be more clear. But it's not like the author doesn't understand.

"It also courted applicants from bedroom communities around New York; Washington, D.C.; Seattle; Boston; and eventually Chicago, where Alabama’s sticker price looked downright reasonable compared with the tuition at pricey private colleges and more expensive public options."

[Anonymous]

Why would anyone want to stay in Illinois?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It can also be because of a strength in a particular area. For example, Indiana U is strong in music. Most of the colleges that are as good or better than IU in this area are private colleges, particularly conservatories. If your kid wants to major in music but you want them to have the full college experience, IU's only rival among public universities is UMichigan, which is a harder admit.

I agree that usually students go to a different state’s big public university because 1) it specializes in something they want, or 2) they didn’t get in to the university or specific program in their own state.

Looking around at my friends and neighbors it’s mostly this, rather than a desire to go far away.

Finally, my own child went to a neighboring state and got merit aid that brought tuition almost exactly to our in-state rate. This is common too.