Any recourse for kids skipped on ladder for Divisionals?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our coach assigns it and there were definitely some upset kids who didn't get to swim what they wanted.

Do parental politics ever come into play for these assignments?

I can't only speak for the team for which I am a team rep. We 100% go by the ladder for divisional selection and no, parents, even tem reps, have no sway. If a swimmer is in top 2 times for more than 2 events they get to choose the 2 they want to swim- coach may give them input if there is an event they are more likely to place high in/make all stars, but in the end it is up to the swimmer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again, not my kid, but wondering if there is any NVSL complaint process for this.

Time to MYOB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you can appeal to the NVSL Circuit Court of Appeals. If you lose there, you can file for a writ of certiorari to the NVSL Supreme Court. Stand up for your rights. and fight!

Unfortunately Trump stacked NVSL supreme court too. No hope for OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our coach assigns it and there were definitely some upset kids who didn't get to swim what they wanted.

Wanted to swim or deserved to swim based on fastest times? Huge difference. If the ladder is followed, as it should be, there will still be disappointed kids, that is life.

Now as a team rep I do find it frustrating when you look at the entry list with alternates listed and there are alternates listed in the top 6 who won't get to swim because 2 kids on their team have faster times. But rather than give up a spot, which I know is their right, a team puts in a kid with no time who then DQs at the meet because they can't even swim the stroke legally.

There were several kids who were top or second on the ladder for more than 2 events. Coach picked and for at least 2, they were upset because they weren't swimming the event they wanted and a kid who was lower on the ladder did.

Agree in the dq situation, you should give up the spot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do the team reps even have a say in the divisional meet sheet? I am a team rep and I only reviewed our meet sheet for accuracy and to make sure no one was entered into more than 2 events. The conversations about stroke selection and preferences occurred between the coaches and the swimmers, with the top swimmers across all strokes getting first pick. It would bother me to be on a team where a team rep had any influence over the meet sheet. That is 100% not cool.

Exactly. Another team rep here. I don’t make any decisions about who swims what strokes ever during the season. My role is to check the entries our coaches make for accuracy, and question any entries if they don’t make sense, but I play no role in meet strategy. That’s 100% up to our coaches. And follows the ladder 100% of the time.

This is the way. Otherwise people are gonna complain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question from an MCSL parent, why isn’t divisionals a team meet? I don’t understand why they wouldn’t score it that way.

IAS is the individual competition, divisionals is still the same teams competing against each other in a head to head meet.

This would erase this problem completely bc the coaches would place swimmers according to what would put the team in the best position and no one else would be involved in the decision making.

Because Divisionals is the qualifying meet for IAS. If it were a team event, coaches would assign kids based on maximizing team results, not maximizing individual chances to make all stars.

Example: a team has 3 kids who are pretty fast in Freestyle. Only one is fast enough to make IAS, but the other two are also fast enough to earn points for the team. The fastest kid is also a point-earner in backstroke, but not fast enough for IAS. Team does not have other fast backstrokers. As an individual event, that swimmer would swim freestyle for a shot at all stars. As a team event, that swimmer would be put into backstroke so the team could score points in both events, but nobody would qualify for IAS.

If you make Divisionals a team event, you'd have to change how people qualify for all stars. That would be fine, but it's a bigger change than just making Divisionals a team event.

Thanks for explaining this. I have to say, I actually think MCSL divisionals and all-stars system is better. Maybe NVSL should start calling "divisionals", "individuals". This would help enforce the notion that it is not a team competition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question from an MCSL parent, why isn’t divisionals a team meet? I don’t understand why they wouldn’t score it that way.

IAS is the individual competition, divisionals is still the same teams competing against each other in a head to head meet.

This would erase this problem completely bc the coaches would place swimmers according to what would put the team in the best position and no one else would be involved in the decision making.

Because Divisionals is the qualifying meet for IAS. If it were a team event, coaches would assign kids based on maximizing team results, not maximizing individual chances to make all stars.

Example: a team has 3 kids who are pretty fast in Freestyle. Only one is fast enough to make IAS, but the other two are also fast enough to earn points for the team. The fastest kid is also a point-earner in backstroke, but not fast enough for IAS. Team does not have other fast backstrokers. As an individual event, that swimmer would swim freestyle for a shot at all stars. As a team event, that swimmer would be put into backstroke so the team could score points in both events, but nobody would qualify for IAS.

If you make Divisionals a team event, you'd have to change how people qualify for all stars. That would be fine, but it's a bigger change than just making Divisionals a team event.

Thanks for explaining this. I have to say, I actually think MCSL divisionals and all-stars system is better. Maybe NVSL should start calling "divisionals", "individuals". This would help enforce the notion that it is not a team competition.

They do. As others have pointed out the meet is called Divisional Individual Championships. Not sure what more people need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question from an MCSL parent, why isn’t divisionals a team meet? I don’t understand why they wouldn’t score it that way.

IAS is the individual competition, divisionals is still the same teams competing against each other in a head to head meet.

This would erase this problem completely bc the coaches would place swimmers according to what would put the team in the best position and no one else would be involved in the decision making.

Funny thing is, in MCSL many parents and coaches are so fixated on how their team places at Divisionals. In the end, it doesn't matter if your team places last and gets zero points. The virtual meets dictate next year's divisions, and the individual swimmers get all stars based on their individual swims through Divisionals.

Because Divisionals is the qualifying meet for IAS. If it were a team event, coaches would assign kids based on maximizing team results, not maximizing individual chances to make all stars.

Example: a team has 3 kids who are pretty fast in Freestyle. Only one is fast enough to make IAS, but the other two are also fast enough to earn points for the team. The fastest kid is also a point-earner in backstroke, but not fast enough for IAS. Team does not have other fast backstrokers. As an individual event, that swimmer would swim freestyle for a shot at all stars. As a team event, that swimmer would be put into backstroke so the team could score points in both events, but nobody would qualify for IAS.

If you make Divisionals a team event, you'd have to change how people qualify for all stars. That would be fine, but it's a bigger change than just making Divisionals a team event.

Thanks for explaining this. I have to say, I actually think MCSL divisionals and all-stars system is better. Maybe NVSL should start calling "divisionals", "individuals". This would help enforce the notion that it is not a team competition.

[Anonymous]

Funny thing is, in MCSL many parents and coaches are so fixated on how their team places at Divisionals and Relay Carnival. In the end, it doesn't matter if your team places last and gets zero points. The virtual meets dictate next year's divisions, and the individual swimmers get all stars based on their individual swims through Divisionals. The relay teams get into all star relays on their performance as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again, not my kid, but wondering if there is any NVSL complaint process for this.

Your pool needs to establish clear rules for how Divisionals events are chosen. We did this years ago after having a team rep that did something similar. It was approved by the pool board, who has oversight of the team and very clearly sets out how this is done.

The pool board? Why would the pool board who is in charge of keeping the physical pool operating have anything to do with the swim team. Which is a separate entity at the pool. The team reps should be the swim team board. Ie: president, VP, and a team treasure at the minimum. Totally and 100% separate from the pool. They have to co-exist and work together. But a pool board would have zero control over a swim team except for closing for the team events as agreed to before the season.

[Anonymous]

Our team denied a kid who was #1 in all events his Divisionals picks (he even gave 3 options!) and put him in an event he was least likely to make All Stars in, because no one else could swim it in his age group. He was an All Star contender, but never got to swim his chosen events because all summer long swam what the team needed him to do at A meets, and then at divisionals they took his choices away there too. Parent raised it with team rep and had her head torn off.

Some on team believe this is in violation of NVSL policy, Im no expert though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our team denied a kid who was #1 in all events his Divisionals picks (he even gave 3 options!) and put him in an event he was least likely to make All Stars in, because no one else could swim it in his age group. He was an All Star contender, but never got to swim his chosen events because all summer long swam what the team needed him to do at A meets, and then at divisionals they took his choices away there too. Parent raised it with team rep and had her head torn off.

Some on team believe this is in violation of NVSL policy, Im no expert though.

In my years as an nvsl parent with kids swimming minis, B, A, divisionals, and all star meets and in different divisions over time (btw 3 and 8), I have never heard this happen from other parents.

Youre going to have to out this team…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our team denied a kid who was #1 in all events his Divisionals picks (he even gave 3 options!) and put him in an event he was least likely to make All Stars in, because no one else could swim it in his age group. He was an All Star contender, but never got to swim his chosen events because all summer long swam what the team needed him to do at A meets, and then at divisionals they took his choices away there too. Parent raised it with team rep and had her head torn off.

Some on team believe this is in violation of NVSL policy, Im no expert though.

In my years as an nvsl parent with kids swimming minis, B, A, divisionals, and all star meets and in different divisions over time (btw 3 and 8), I have never heard this happen from other parents.

Youre going to have to out this team…

DP. Not a good idea to out anyone.

Regardless, this is a situation where the coach put the interests of the team ahead of the individual swimmer - this was was wrong and destroyed the coach-athlete bond of trust. Likewise, the team rep was out of line. Unfortunately, the league won't likely do anything, deferring to the coach and rep. In that scenario, it's time to find another team. Let the old team figure out how to win without him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our team denied a kid who was #1 in all events his Divisionals picks (he even gave 3 options!) and put him in an event he was least likely to make All Stars in, because no one else could swim it in his age group. He was an All Star contender, but never got to swim his chosen events because all summer long swam what the team needed him to do at A meets, and then at divisionals they took his choices away there too. Parent raised it with team rep and had her head torn off.

Some on team believe this is in violation of NVSL policy, Im no expert though.

In my years as an nvsl parent with kids swimming minis, B, A, divisionals, and all star meets and in different divisions over time (btw 3 and 8), I have never heard this happen from other parents.

Youre going to have to out this team…

DP. Not a good idea to out anyone.

Regardless, this is a situation where the coach put the interests of the team ahead of the individual swimmer - this was was wrong and destroyed the coach-athlete bond of trust. Likewise, the team rep was out of line. Unfortunately, the league won't likely do anything, deferring to the coach and rep. In that scenario, it's time to find another team. Let the old team figure out how to win without him.

So you'll just let someone else walk into the same situation next year after jumping ship? Sometimes name and shame is necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our team denied a kid who was #1 in all events his Divisionals picks (he even gave 3 options!) and put him in an event he was least likely to make All Stars in, because no one else could swim it in his age group. He was an All Star contender, but never got to swim his chosen events because all summer long swam what the team needed him to do at A meets, and then at divisionals they took his choices away there too. Parent raised it with team rep and had her head torn off.

Some on team believe this is in violation of NVSL policy, Im no expert though.

Find another pool club/swim team. ^ this is not right and a life’s too short to fight it