American Women Are Giving Up on Marriage (Wall Street Journal)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting because my understanding is that the sociological data shows that married parents have high levels of happiness. Having a stable family is an overall benefit to the individuals involved and society.

Certain demographic groups are more successful in forming and maintaining families including the college educated professional class, Asian Americans, and more religious people.

We talk about this issue with our teen. Alongside college and career prep, we want him to know the importance of family and the value of intentionally prioritizing a good marriage. It doesn’t just magically happen. Effort is both required and rewarded.

Nope - single women are happiest, followed by married men. I forget whether single men or married women are least happy.

We talk with our teen DD about choosing a partner who shares your values and will pull their weight.

You're incorrect. Data show married people are happier--both men and women.
From Stack, Steven, and J. Ross Eshleman. "Marital status and happiness: A 17-nation study." Journal of Marriage and the Family (1998): 527-536:
"Research on marital status and happiness has
tended to be restricted to the U.S. We extend the
analysis to a set of 17 industrialized nations with
diverse social and institutional frameworks. Con-
trolling for sociodemographic variables, we found
that married persons have a significantly higher
level of happiness than persons who are not mar-
ried."

[Anonymous]

If I were to do it all over, I would have opted to be a single mother by choice. I have a few good friends for whom marriage has been integral for them and for their children, but surprisingly many more friends for whom that's sadly not the case. In my case, I am financially independent (over $5 million in accounts and $4 million in real estate, attributable to me, and $400,000 annually in my current mission-based job). I have a strong social, community and professional network, and close family ties. Within my marriage and family, I am the primary responsible parent and always have been (in all areas). On the home front, am also the primary responsible person (about 60/40, and most of the day-to-day). I'm also the equal earner and have equal job responsibilities. But, I've taken on roles that are more predictable and reliable. I also take primary responsibility for our extended families. Overall, I'm responsible for about 75% of the adult-type responsibilities, and 50% of the income. Overall, looking at it quite clinically, there have been substantial drawbacks to being married, sadly without a whole lot of benefits. I say this, though, as someone who has a strong long-term social and family network outside of my DH, and whose DH is not particularly community-oriented and doesn't really take on a split share of responsibilities. And I have the added experience of having three good friends who are single mothers by choice (of kids of ranging ages) and they are building very strong families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And yet.... my 3 kids are in their early twenties and are going to/ participating in multiple weddings each this year. There is also a trend of people getting married younger, as in before 30.

That’s cool for you, but the data say otherwise

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting because my understanding is that the sociological data shows that married parents have high levels of happiness. Having a stable family is an overall benefit to the individuals involved and society.

Certain demographic groups are more successful in forming and maintaining families including the college educated professional class, Asian Americans, and more religious people.

We talk about this issue with our teen. Alongside college and career prep, we want him to know the importance of family and the value of intentionally prioritizing a good marriage. It doesn’t just magically happen. Effort is both required and rewarded.

Nope - single women are happiest, followed by married men. I forget whether single men or married women are least happy.

We talk with our teen DD about choosing a partner who shares your values and will pull their weight.

You're incorrect. Data show married people are happier--both men and women.
From Stack, Steven, and J. Ross Eshleman. "Marital status and happiness: A 17-nation study." Journal of Marriage and the Family (1998): 527-536:
"Research on marital status and happiness has
tended to be restricted to the U.S. We extend the
analysis to a set of 17 industrialized nations with
diverse social and institutional frameworks. Con-
trolling for sociodemographic variables, we found
that married persons have a significantly higher
level of happiness than persons who are not mar-
ried."

1998?? It's a different world now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live in New England and men aren’t really getting married or having kids either

Lotta single Harvard/MIT guys in the sciences

I had a good friend who tried to set me up with a few of these men (Harvard/MIT) brainy science types. Ooh boy I said never again. These men are single for a reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in New England and men aren’t really getting married or having kids either

Lotta single Harvard/MIT guys in the sciences

I had a good friend who tried to set me up with a few of these men (Harvard/MIT) brainy science types. Ooh boy I said never again. These men are single for a reason.

The odds are good, but the goods are odd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting because my understanding is that the sociological data shows that married parents have high levels of happiness. Having a stable family is an overall benefit to the individuals involved and society.

Certain demographic groups are more successful in forming and maintaining families including the college educated professional class, Asian Americans, and more religious people.

We talk about this issue with our teen. Alongside college and career prep, we want him to know the importance of family and the value of intentionally prioritizing a good marriage. It doesn’t just magically happen. Effort is both required and rewarded.

Nope - single women are happiest, followed by married men. I forget whether single men or married women are least happy.

We talk with our teen DD about choosing a partner who shares your values and will pull their weight.

You're incorrect. Data show married people are happier--both men and women.
From Stack, Steven, and J. Ross Eshleman. "Marital status and happiness: A 17-nation study." Journal of Marriage and the Family (1998): 527-536:
"Research on marital status and happiness has
tended to be restricted to the U.S. We extend the
analysis to a set of 17 industrialized nations with
diverse social and institutional frameworks. Con-
trolling for sociodemographic variables, we found
that married persons have a significantly higher
level of happiness than persons who are not mar-
ried."

Does it address the chicken/egg problem of whether it’s truly marriage that makes a difference or it’s simply that good natured people with a sunny outlook are more likely to get married in the first place?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women are not buying into a system that hates them and sets them up to fail.

+1million.

And the pundits can crunch as much data and throw all the statistics at this that they want but until men address this (below) - women aren't going to be interested.

"Many of the men Katie met, she said, either seemed turned off by her ambition or weren’t career-oriented enough for her. She felt discouraged by just how many of her male friends similarly said they expect their future wives to prioritize their families over their jobs."

"Jones, who identifies as politically moderate, thinks couples with kids should split household and child care responsibilities equally. She was surprised by just how few of the men she has encountered in D.C. share this view."

"[S]he broke up with her boyfriend, with whom she shares a 5-year-old son, over a year ago because she was tired of doing most of the child care, cooking and scheduling while also earning almost double her boyfriend’s salary."

I do worry about the backlash against women, which is already well underway. Men aren't going to want to change. They are going to want to force women back into dependency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Overall marriage and children are indeed a bad deal for majority of women.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women don’t need men to survive like they did in the past. We have our own money, our own homes, and our own children. Who needs a man anymore?

Women who want a loving companion and a family for their children.

Agree, but that assumes a man who is a loving companion and good parent. A man who ticks those boxes will do well.

And attractive and smart women are mostly able to find these men. The biggest hurdle I believe is that you have to find them early. You don't have to marry or have kids early, but I do think by age 25 or so most of the good men are in serious dating relationships. Obviously there are exceptions - good men who for whatever reason didn't want to be committed earlier - but the amount of good ones still unattached shrinks drastically as the years go on.

Yes ladies, if you are only pretty enough, you can find a perfect man. Project 2025 has spoken, keep sweet and keep pretty for those men!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women don’t need men to survive like they did in the past. We have our own money, our own homes, and our own children. Who needs a man anymore?

Women who want a loving companion and a family for their children.

Agree, but that assumes a man who is a loving companion and good parent. A man who ticks those boxes will do well.

And attractive and smart women are mostly able to find these men. The biggest hurdle I believe is that you have to find them early. You don't have to marry or have kids early, but I do think by age 25 or so most of the good men are in serious dating relationships. Obviously there are exceptions - good men who for whatever reason didn't want to be committed earlier - but the amount of good ones still unattached shrinks drastically as the years go on.

Yes ladies, if you are only pretty enough, you can find a perfect man. Project 2025 has spoken, keep sweet and keep pretty for those men!

Hey don’t worry - even if all this tinfoil hat 2025 stuff comes true - you still won’t get laid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overall marriage and children are indeed a bad deal for majority of women.

+100

Data clearly shows the opposite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women don’t need men to survive like they did in the past. We have our own money, our own homes, and our own children. Who needs a man anymore?

Women who want a loving companion and a family for their children.

Agree, but that assumes a man who is a loving companion and good parent. A man who ticks those boxes will do well.

And attractive and smart women are mostly able to find these men. The biggest hurdle I believe is that you have to find them early. You don't have to marry or have kids early, but I do think by age 25 or so most of the good men are in serious dating relationships. Obviously there are exceptions - good men who for whatever reason didn't want to be committed earlier - but the amount of good ones still unattached shrinks drastically as the years go on.

Yes ladies, if you are only pretty enough, you can find a perfect man. Project 2025 has spoken, keep sweet and keep pretty for those men!

Get a grip.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women are not buying into a system that hates them and sets them up to fail.

+1million.

And the pundits can crunch as much data and throw all the statistics at this that they want but until men address this (below) - women aren't going to be interested.

"Many of the men Katie met, she said, either seemed turned off by her ambition or weren’t career-oriented enough for her. She felt discouraged by just how many of her male friends similarly said they expect their future wives to prioritize their families over their jobs."

"Jones, who identifies as politically moderate, thinks couples with kids should split household and child care responsibilities equally. She was surprised by just how few of the men she has encountered in D.C. share this view."

"[S]he broke up with her boyfriend, with whom she shares a 5-year-old son, over a year ago because she was tired of doing most of the child care, cooking and scheduling while also earning almost double her boyfriend’s salary."

I do worry about the backlash against women, which is already well underway. Men aren't going to want to change. They are going to want to force women back into dependency.

That is precisely what we're starting to see happen with this administration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women don’t need men to survive like they did in the past. We have our own money, our own homes, and our own children. Who needs a man anymore?

Women who want a loving companion and a family for their children.

Agree, but that assumes a man who is a loving companion and good parent. A man who ticks those boxes will do well.

And attractive and smart women are mostly able to find these men. The biggest hurdle I believe is that you have to find them early. You don't have to marry or have kids early, but I do think by age 25 or so most of the good men are in serious dating relationships. Obviously there are exceptions - good men who for whatever reason didn't want to be committed earlier - but the amount of good ones still unattached shrinks drastically as the years go on.

Most of them aren't even fully formed mentally by 25, so no, that's not a great time to try to figure out who's a good one. The ones who get married early usually have religiosity that encourages them to marry, procreate, and create/maintain a "traditional" household. If that's what you're into, maybe one of those is a "good one" for you. That is NOT universal.