American Women Are Giving Up on Marriage (Wall Street Journal)

[Anonymous]

I live in New England and men aren’t really getting married or having kids either

Lotta single Harvard/MIT guys in the sciences

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women don’t need men to survive like they did in the past. We have our own money, our own homes, and our own children. Who needs a man anymore?

Women who want a loving companion and a family for their children.

Agree, but that assumes a man who is a loving companion and good parent. A man who ticks those boxes will do well.

And attractive and smart women are mostly able to find these men. The biggest hurdle I believe is that you have to find them early. You don't have to marry or have kids early, but I do think by age 25 or so most of the good men are in serious dating relationships. Obviously there are exceptions - good men who for whatever reason didn't want to be committed earlier - but the amount of good ones still unattached shrinks drastically as the years go on.

Why is there a time limit on being a loving companion and good parent? Those are choices any man could make at any time. If they are choosing otherwise, they won't do well in the dating market and unattached women will do their own thing re: kids. But it's a choice those men are making.

I think PP was open to the possibility of men choosing at any point to be loving companion and good parent. But they see evidence on the ground that indicates that the earlier you look for a relationship, the higher your odds of finding men who either know they want that choice or are open to it. Over time they either get paired off, or they get set in their ways and less and less able to easily leave the single life.

David Brooks wrote a piece about how people (men and women) might be focusing too much early on on their careers, and missing out on the time when they are most likely to find someone -- and for someone to find them. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/17/opinion/marriage-happiness-career.html ("To Be Happy, Marriage Matters More Than Career").

"When I’m around young adults, I like to ask them how they are thinking about the big commitments in their lives: what career to go into, where to live, whom to marry. Most of them have thought a lot about their career plans. But my impression is that many have not thought a lot about how marriage will fit into their lives."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s where I am seeing that married people are happier:

From U. Chicago
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4508123
“Being married is the most important differentiator with a 30-percentage point happy-unhappy gap over the unmarried. “

Brad Wilcox from UVA looking at GSS data
https://ifstudies.org/blog/who-is-happiest-married-mothers-and-fathers-per-the-latest-general-social-survey
“This new IFS research brief provides further evidence that happiness is linked to American family life. In particular, and contrary to the views articulated by many on social media, the mainstream media, and the American public, marriage and parenthood do not appear to be obstacles to living a happy life. Instead, these two traditional markers of adulthood are associated with a happier life. As difficult as marriage and parenthood can be, in general, men and women who have the benefit of a spouse and children are the most likely to report that they are “very happy” with their lives, according to the most recent round of the General Social Survey.”

Yes the body of the social studies data is that married women are happier than their single counterparts even if there are some outlier polls. You also see benefits in life longevity for marriage.

Is it the body of social science or just the pro-family body of social science?

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/may/25/women-happier-without-children-or-a-spouse-happiness-expert

- quotes legitimate social scientists, like Paul Dolan, a professor of behavioural science at the London School of Economics

- Notable quotes:

" We may have suspected it already, but now the science backs it up: unmarried and childless women are the happiest subgroup in the population."

"We do have some good longitudinal data following the same people over time, but I am going to do a massive disservice to that science and just say: if you’re a man, you should probably get married; if you’re a woman, don’t bother. Men benefited from marriage because they “calmed down”, he said. “You take less risks, you earn more money at work, and you live a little longer. She, on the other hand, has to put up with that, and dies sooner than if she never married. The healthiest and happiest population subgroup are women who never married or had children,” he said "

That book has been pretty thoroughly debunked.

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/6/4/18650969/married-women-miserable-fake-paul-dolan-happiness

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yet.... my 3 kids are in their early twenties and are going to/ participating in multiple weddings each this year. There is also a trend of people getting married younger, as in before 30.

Among wealthy people, yes.

No, it’s a Southern thing, not common amongst the upper middle class.

Rich Catholics in the Tristate and New England are getting married young

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those women are not settling for men who are not compatible, full partners. Nothing wrong with that. It sounds like if any of them met the right guy, they'd consider marriage.

But, doesn't that mean men are giving up too? The population of the U.S. is 50.5% female. If they aren't getting married, neither are men. Or is something going wrong with a large portion of the male population making them incompatible marriage partners?

Both genders are becoming increasingly unattractive to the other. You have more men growing up to be directionless incel losers, you have more women becoming fat and having delusional standards.

Politics is more extreme now so conservative men and liberal women are finding decreased ability to find common ground. Economically men are losing their appeal, women need them less and they have less to offer in the first place. Socially, there are fewer places to meet in person so we see increased use of online dating which is a very harsh environment and fosters the idea that everyone you meet is disposable, top 5% of men rake it in while bottom 95% get next to nothing.

I strongly disagree in a post-GLP1 world—half my neighborhood has shrunk.

Men and women are increasingly assessing parental aura/vibes to forecast their partner’s future

GLP-1s cause unnatural droopiness you can tell right away

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:After 2025 no unmarried female will have the choice again whether they get married.

Project 2025 come on down maga stupids.

Breeding homes are already being built in Ok, MO, Al, AR, Louisiana, MI, and Idaho. Idaho is putting them up super fast.

Link?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting because my understanding is that the sociological data shows that married parents have high levels of happiness. Having a stable family is an overall benefit to the individuals involved and society.

Certain demographic groups are more successful in forming and maintaining families including the college educated professional class, Asian Americans, and more religious people.

We talk about this issue with our teen. Alongside college and career prep, we want him to know the importance of family and the value of intentionally prioritizing a good marriage. It doesn’t just magically happen. Effort is both required and rewarded.

Married non-parents have even higher levels of happiness.

No it’s single women

This sites the study.

I didn't say they had the highest, just higher than parents. I don't want to be alone, but my husband is fantastic. Maybe if I hadn't found him.

[Anonymous]

Is it really surprising that men in DC don’t want to date the overweight woman who is 38 and works in real estate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yet.... my 3 kids are in their early twenties and are going to/ participating in multiple weddings each this year. There is also a trend of people getting married younger, as in before 30.

Among wealthy people, yes.

No, it’s a Southern thing, not common amongst the upper middle class.

Rich Catholics in the Tristate and New England are getting married young

Marry in haste, repent at leisure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it really surprising that men in DC don’t want to date the overweight woman who is 38 and works in real estate?

What’s wrong with RE?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women don’t need men to survive like they did in the past. We have our own money, our own homes, and our own children. Who needs a man anymore?

Women who want a loving companion and a family for their children.

If the "loving companion" is a dud in terms of a dad and doing housechores, he will quickly turn into a "albatross around the neck".

They say a wife is a ball and chain, but IMO, a dud husband is the real ball and chain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it really surprising that men in DC don’t want to date the overweight woman who is 38 and works in real estate?

What’s wrong with RE?

New poster

It’s gauche

Trump-coded

Would rather date a 40 year old Montessori teacher with a rigorous Pilates regimen

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yet.... my 3 kids are in their early twenties and are going to/ participating in multiple weddings each this year. There is also a trend of people getting married younger, as in before 30.

Among wealthy people, yes.

No, it’s a Southern thing, not common amongst the upper middle class.

Rich Catholics in the Tristate and New England are getting married young

Marry in haste, repent at leisure.

Just because someone marries young does not mean they married "in haste." DH and I dated for four years before marriage, but still married at 24. Happily married 21 years later.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women don’t need men to survive like they did in the past. We have our own money, our own homes, and our own children. Who needs a man anymore?

Women who want a loving companion and a family for their children.

Agree, but that assumes a man who is a loving companion and good parent. A man who ticks those boxes will do well.

And attractive and smart women are mostly able to find these men. The biggest hurdle I believe is that you have to find them early. You don't have to marry or have kids early, but I do think by age 25 or so most of the good men are in serious dating relationships. Obviously there are exceptions - good men who for whatever reason didn't want to be committed earlier - but the amount of good ones still unattached shrinks drastically as the years go on.

Why is there a time limit on being a loving companion and good parent? Those are choices any man could make at any time. If they are choosing otherwise, they won't do well in the dating market and unattached women will do their own thing re: kids. But it's a choice those men are making.

I think PP was open to the possibility of men choosing at any point to be loving companion and good parent. But they see evidence on the ground that indicates that the earlier you look for a relationship, the higher your odds of finding men who either know they want that choice or are open to it. Over time they either get paired off, or they get set in their ways and less and less able to easily leave the single life.

David Brooks wrote a piece about how people (men and women) might be focusing too much early on on their careers, and missing out on the time when they are most likely to find someone -- and for someone to find them. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/17/opinion/marriage-happiness-career.html ("To Be Happy, Marriage Matters More Than Career").

"When I’m around young adults, I like to ask them how they are thinking about the big commitments in their lives: what career to go into, where to live, whom to marry. Most of them have thought a lot about their career plans. But my impression is that many have not thought a lot about how marriage will fit into their lives."

Do you find no irony here? What do you think his ex-wife might add to the discussion?