In opposition to reach schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take after going through the college application process with two kids is that applying to true reach schools (ie schools where you’re child has less than 5% chance at admission) is a net negative.

Both of my kids had good grades at good schools, excellent ECs with top ten percent test scores and all advanced classes. This made them competitive for T50 schools but really long shots at T10 schools. But like everyone around here we applied to a mix of target, safety and reach schools. The results were exactly as predicted. Admitted to every school except the reaches.

The prevailing wisdom is - “at least you took your shot.” However, I think that sentiment overlooks the cost of applying to reach schools:

1. Fees. While application fees are small potatoes when thinking about college costs its not nothing- I certainly would have preferred to take my wife out to a nice dinner rather than send Princeton, Harvard and U of C almost $300.

2. Time and trouble. The reach schools’ applications are considerably more trouble than other colleges. I particularly dislike U of C’s zany question. Both of my kids spent hours brainstorming, drafting and editing their essays. All time that would have been better spent enjoying their senior year.

3. Disappointment. Life already has its bumps and troubles you don’t have to go look for them. While my kids didn’t have big expectations and therefore weren’t terribly disappointed each rejection did take the air out of the evening. It also makes for uncomfortable moments with well meaning grandparents, aunts, uncles etc.

4. Waitlisted. The worst position is being waitlisted. It creates all kinds of distractions and makes planning difficult.

Look, of your kid is a good candidate for a top school go for it. But if your kid is a standard issue overachiever save yourself the money, time and trouble.

Most parents cannot tell the difference and do not know how to read the Scoir scattergrams from their high school or correctly interpret the school profile to assess where their kid really stands.
"4.4 Weighted, 1520, 9 APs", but their APs are Geo, Stats, AB calc, Econ, Gov, Bio, APES, APUSH, ForLang and that GPA means they are borderline for the top 20%...when the top 5% rigor at their school takes something like AP lit, BC calc and vector calc/linear, AP chem, Physics C, Bio, APUSH, Foreign Lang...and the top 5% wgpa is 4.7+
Parents are clueless and push their kids toward out of reach schools.

So wrong. My kid is in poly sci at an Ivy. Highest math AP calc AB, only AP science Bio. All the rest were English and 4 histories (euro, us, comparative gov, ap gov&politics).

UW 4.0. They like kids that get As and 5s in Eng lit, Eng lang, and are well rounded.

your kid is either at a super-feeder private OR the highest math the school offered was AB calc, OR they had a hook.
1/3 of the entire high school does BC in either 11th then vector cal in 12, or does BC in 12th. The ivy/t10 admits who have no hooks almost all come from the highest math level, a couple liberal arts/history kids/drama kids come from the group who ended with BC(our second highest track). All those unhooked ivy admits take AP/highest level in every other non-math area too. Even in-state UVA rarely takes from the group that ends with AB Calc: uva accepts about 25% of our high school graduating class, though many in the top 10% ED ivy and withdraw the uva EA so there would be more. Relative rigor matters. A lot. For all schools but especially the T25 and up

Wrong at our HS^

+2 wrong at HS as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My personal favorite is my son got an email from U Chicago saying "even though deadline has passed you can still apply".

Ummm, yeah, not going to add to your pile of denials, pretty sure no one who applies after the deadline has a shot, they just want to pad their acceptance %

I’m surprised they didn’t say,”If you, your barber, the old lady next door, or really anybody you ever meet for the rest of your life wants to apply at any time, we STRONGLY encourage you & them to do so.”

[Anonymous]

The disappointment issue is a real problem for some personalities. My DD will hear from the school she has wanted to go to for years (that is a very likely/target school) on the same day as a long reach that she doesn’t care much about. Getting rejected or deferred from the reach is totally going to take away the joy from getting into the school she actually really likes.

Kind of wishing she had’t applied to the reach…plus its two supplementals took up a lot of her time.

[Anonymous]

Interesting podcast today from YCBK:
why a top-heavy list doesn't end well (it's basically this entire thread) and preparing yourself and your kid not to get in and not be surprised.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The disappointment issue is a real problem for some personalities. My DD will hear from the school she has wanted to go to for years (that is a very likely/target school) on the same day as a long reach that she doesn’t care much about. Getting rejected or deferred from the reach is totally going to take away the joy from getting into the school she actually really likes.

Kind of wishing she had’t applied to the reach…plus its two supplementals took up a lot of her time.

Or not.

My kid didn’t take any of those personally. But since end of junior year we stressed it’s not personal. Thousands of kids have similar stats and there aren’t enough seats. It is a lottery to some degree for top 10.

He ended up getting in RD to an Ivy that I thought he didn’t care about. He always said he wanted a different T20. He was so excited and I asked why he never expressed strong interest before and he said “I did t think I’d actually get in!” The other reach rejections were not emotional at all—even before he got the good news.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The disappointment issue is a real problem for some personalities. My DD will hear from the school she has wanted to go to for years (that is a very likely/target school) on the same day as a long reach that she doesn’t care much about. Getting rejected or deferred from the reach is totally going to take away the joy from getting into the school she actually really likes.

Kind of wishing she had’t applied to the reach…plus its two supplementals took up a lot of her time.

I hear you. I actually didn't think my kid would be as disappointed as he was in the rejections because he got into a lot more schools than we predicted including an Ivy. But, especially if the rejection comes hand-in-hand with the good news, I don't consider it a bad experience. They have to learn to deal with disappointments and a little harsh reality. All things considered, bad news on top of good is not such a big deal.

And they definitely get over it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hear hear! If a kid really wants to go for a reach, that’s great. But for the reasons you outlined, I would not push my kid to do so.

And if "applying to 3 reach schools means you also cannot take your spouse out for a nice dinner", then maybe you limit your kid to 1 reach school. Or realize that even if they were to gain admission, "should I really be finding a a way to pay for this $90K+ school"?

It helps to make sure your kids understand what reach means. That literally, don't except to get in, and if you do it's a nice perk. Search for great Targets and safeties because 90%+ chance that is where you will be attending, so make good choices

[Anonymous]

Sounds like we may need to recalibrate whatever mechanism we are using for selecting the schools to which kids apply.
What are people using as the rule of thumb? Should a reach be a school where your child has a 35% chance of getting in, target 36 - 70% chance of getting in and safety 71% - 100% chance of getting in? Is that reasonable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like we may need to recalibrate whatever mechanism we are using for selecting the schools to which kids apply.
What are people using as the rule of thumb? Should a reach be a school where your child has a 35% chance of getting in, target 36 - 70% chance of getting in and safety 71% - 100% chance of getting in? Is that reasonable?

It's really based on acceptance rates ( moreso in RD). Anything </= 20% is a reach for everyone regardless of the student's "high stats" profile. Targets can still be tricky, but the CDS provides good data. >

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like we may need to recalibrate whatever mechanism we are using for selecting the schools to which kids apply.
What are people using as the rule of thumb? Should a reach be a school where your child has a 35% chance of getting in, target 36 - 70% chance of getting in and safety 71% - 100% chance of getting in? Is that reasonable?

Depends on the kid's academic stats.

Before test optional became widespread due to covid test date cancellations, families used published test score ranges to help sort reaches, matches, and safeties. There was still a great deal of uncertainty for reaches, but not nearly as much as ensued under test optional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like we may need to recalibrate whatever mechanism we are using for selecting the schools to which kids apply.
What are people using as the rule of thumb? Should a reach be a school where your child has a 35% chance of getting in, target 36 - 70% chance of getting in and safety 71% - 100% chance of getting in? Is that reasonable?

Depends on the kid's academic stats.

Before test optional became widespread due to covid test date cancellations, families used published test score ranges to help sort reaches, matches, and safeties. There was still a great deal of uncertainty for reaches, but not nearly as much as ensued under test optional.

Agree. Use the high school Scoir scattergrams: many schools in the Top 30 have obvious all-green-check areas above a certain gpa and score, going off the last 3 cycles only. For quite a few top 30 schools they are definitely match schools or even likelies for the students in the top 5-10% of the class with great scores at our magnet. Also talk to your high school counselor

[Anonymous]

Maybe Top 10 was too big a reach. Those are the Ivies and adjacent. Impossible,

You should have looked at 15-30 as your reaches, and even then yes, there may be rejections.