In opposition to reach schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes! The prevailing wisdom is to apply to several reaches, targets, and safeties. But actually, reaches aren't necessary at all. Most important is finding a good fit: socially, academically, and financially.

Our HS counselor is conservative. We wasted so much $ on target/safeties. Got into all. Then got in RD to 2 Ivies, Hopkins, Williams, etc. With our next kid we are cutting out so many of those that older sibling applied to. Younger one has even more rigor/stats. I made the mistake of listening to this board and everyone’s horror stories

Applying to safeties is like buying insurance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top 10% test scores are not in range for T10 schools.

Yeah that’s what makes them reaches. Try to keep up.

1350 is a top 10% SAT. No one except maybe an athlete with likely letter is submitting a 1350 to a top 10 school.

I had one kid top 2% and my kid applying next year will be top 1%. Top 10 schools still a big reach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we put the blame on what the real problem is - grade inflation. If you’re older than 40 a 3.7-4.0 is a crazy gpa. In my high school (which 30 years ago). Only a handful of kids had 4.0s. Most kids had a couple of C’s. On their transcript. So when your kids comes to you with a 4.1 you think he would have been the valedictorian.

The schools have played a dirty game with parents where they secure your inaction with phony grades. Who’s gonna schedule a parent teacher conference because thier kids got an A-. But of course an A- today is really a B-/C+.

Absolutley, in a nutshell, inflation is the number one problem

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take after going through the college application process with two kids is that applying to true reach schools (ie schools where you’re child has less than 5% chance at admission) is a net negative.

Both of my kids had good grades at good schools, excellent ECs with top ten percent test scores and all advanced classes. This made them competitive for T50 schools but really long shots at T10 schools. But like everyone around here we applied to a mix of target, safety and reach schools. The results were exactly as predicted. Admitted to every school except the reaches.

The prevailing wisdom is - “at least you took your shot.” However, I think that sentiment overlooks the cost of applying to reach schools:

1. Fees. While application fees are small potatoes when thinking about college costs its not nothing- I certainly would have preferred to take my wife out to a nice dinner rather than send Princeton, Harvard and U of C almost $300.

2. Time and trouble. The reach schools’ applications are considerably more trouble than other colleges. I particularly dislike U of C’s zany question. Both of my kids spent hours brainstorming, drafting and editing their essays. All time that would have been better spent enjoying their senior year.

3. Disappointment. Life already has its bumps and troubles you don’t have to go look for them. While my kids didn’t have big expectations and therefore weren’t terribly disappointed each rejection did take the air out of the evening. It also makes for uncomfortable moments with well meaning grandparents, aunts, uncles etc.

4. Waitlisted. The worst position is being waitlisted. It creates all kinds of distractions and makes planning difficult.

Look, of your kid is a good candidate for a top school go for it. But if your kid is a standard issue overachiever save yourself the money, time and trouble.

Most parents cannot tell the difference and do not know how to read the Scoir scattergrams from their high school or correctly interpret the school profile to assess where their kid really stands.
"4.4 Weighted, 1520, 9 APs", but their APs are Geo, Stats, AB calc, Econ, Gov, Bio, APES, APUSH, ForLang and that GPA means they are borderline for the top 20%...when the top 5% rigor at their school takes something like AP lit, BC calc and vector calc/linear, AP chem, Physics C, Bio, APUSH, Foreign Lang...and the top 5% wgpa is 4.7+
Parents are clueless and push their kids toward out of reach schools.

So wrong. My kid is in poly sci at an Ivy. Highest math AP calc AB, only AP science Bio. All the rest were English and 4 histories (euro, us, comparative gov, ap gov&politics).

UW 4.0. They like kids that get As and 5s in Eng lit, Eng lang, and are well rounded.

your kid is either at a super-feeder private OR the highest math the school offered was AB calc, OR they had a hook.
1/3 of the entire high school does BC in either 11th then vector cal in 12, or does BC in 12th. The ivy/t10 admits who have no hooks almost all come from the highest math level, a couple liberal arts/history kids/drama kids come from the group who ended with BC(our second highest track). All those unhooked ivy admits take AP/highest level in every other non-math area too. Even in-state UVA rarely takes from the group that ends with AB Calc: uva accepts about 25% of our high school graduating class, though many in the top 10% ED ivy and withdraw the uva EA so there would be more. Relative rigor matters. A lot. For all schools but especially the T25 and up

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take after going through the college application process with two kids is that applying to true reach schools (ie schools where you’re child has less than 5% chance at admission) is a net negative.

Both of my kids had good grades at good schools, excellent ECs with top ten percent test scores and all advanced classes. This made them competitive for T50 schools but really long shots at T10 schools. But like everyone around here we applied to a mix of target, safety and reach schools. The results were exactly as predicted. Admitted to every school except the reaches.

The prevailing wisdom is - “at least you took your shot.” However, I think that sentiment overlooks the cost of applying to reach schools:

1. Fees. While application fees are small potatoes when thinking about college costs its not nothing- I certainly would have preferred to take my wife out to a nice dinner rather than send Princeton, Harvard and U of C almost $300.

2. Time and trouble. The reach schools’ applications are considerably more trouble than other colleges. I particularly dislike U of C’s zany question. Both of my kids spent hours brainstorming, drafting and editing their essays. All time that would have been better spent enjoying their senior year.

3. Disappointment. Life already has its bumps and troubles you don’t have to go look for them. While my kids didn’t have big expectations and therefore weren’t terribly disappointed each rejection did take the air out of the evening. It also makes for uncomfortable moments with well meaning grandparents, aunts, uncles etc.

4. Waitlisted. The worst position is being waitlisted. It creates all kinds of distractions and makes planning difficult.

Look, of your kid is a good candidate for a top school go for it. But if your kid is a standard issue overachiever save yourself the money, time and trouble.

Most parents cannot tell the difference and do not know how to read the Scoir scattergrams from their high school or correctly interpret the school profile to assess where their kid really stands.
"4.4 Weighted, 1520, 9 APs", but their APs are Geo, Stats, AB calc, Econ, Gov, Bio, APES, APUSH, ForLang and that GPA means they are borderline for the top 20%...when the top 5% rigor at their school takes something like AP lit, BC calc and vector calc/linear, AP chem, Physics C, Bio, APUSH, Foreign Lang...and the top 5% wgpa is 4.7+
Parents are clueless and push their kids toward out of reach schools.

So wrong. My kid is in poly sci at an Ivy. Highest math AP calc AB, only AP science Bio. All the rest were English and 4 histories (euro, us, comparative gov, ap gov&politics).

UW 4.0. They like kids that get As and 5s in Eng lit, Eng lang, and are well rounded.

your kid is either at a super-feeder private OR the highest math the school offered was AB calc, OR they had a hook.
1/3 of the entire high school does BC in either 11th then vector cal in 12, or does BC in 12th. The ivy/t10 admits who have no hooks almost all come from the highest math level, a couple liberal arts/history kids/drama kids come from the group who ended with BC(our second highest track). All those unhooked ivy admits take AP/highest level in every other non-math area too. Even in-state UVA rarely takes from the group that ends with AB Calc: uva accepts about 25% of our high school graduating class, though many in the top 10% ED ivy and withdraw the uva EA so there would be more. Relative rigor matters. A lot. For all schools but especially the T25 and up

Np. My kid (non-DMV private) is at Ivy now. Highest math was AB (BC is also offered).

Sometimes ppl like you - who want to appear to know everything but really only know very little and only about how things work in your very small tiny little bubble - are wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take after going through the college application process with two kids is that applying to true reach schools (ie schools where you’re child has less than 5% chance at admission) is a net negative.

Both of my kids had good grades at good schools, excellent ECs with top ten percent test scores and all advanced classes. This made them competitive for T50 schools but really long shots at T10 schools. But like everyone around here we applied to a mix of target, safety and reach schools. The results were exactly as predicted. Admitted to every school except the reaches.

The prevailing wisdom is - “at least you took your shot.” However, I think that sentiment overlooks the cost of applying to reach schools:

1. Fees. While application fees are small potatoes when thinking about college costs its not nothing- I certainly would have preferred to take my wife out to a nice dinner rather than send Princeton, Harvard and U of C almost $300.

2. Time and trouble. The reach schools’ applications are considerably more trouble than other colleges. I particularly dislike U of C’s zany question. Both of my kids spent hours brainstorming, drafting and editing their essays. All time that would have been better spent enjoying their senior year.

3. Disappointment. Life already has its bumps and troubles you don’t have to go look for them. While my kids didn’t have big expectations and therefore weren’t terribly disappointed each rejection did take the air out of the evening. It also makes for uncomfortable moments with well meaning grandparents, aunts, uncles etc.

4. Waitlisted. The worst position is being waitlisted. It creates all kinds of distractions and makes planning difficult.

Look, of your kid is a good candidate for a top school go for it. But if your kid is a standard issue overachiever save yourself the money, time and trouble.

Most parents cannot tell the difference and do not know how to read the Scoir scattergrams from their high school or correctly interpret the school profile to assess where their kid really stands.
"4.4 Weighted, 1520, 9 APs", but their APs are Geo, Stats, AB calc, Econ, Gov, Bio, APES, APUSH, ForLang and that GPA means they are borderline for the top 20%...when the top 5% rigor at their school takes something like AP lit, BC calc and vector calc/linear, AP chem, Physics C, Bio, APUSH, Foreign Lang...and the top 5% wgpa is 4.7+
Parents are clueless and push their kids toward out of reach schools.

So wrong. My kid is in poly sci at an Ivy. Highest math AP calc AB, only AP science Bio. All the rest were English and 4 histories (euro, us, comparative gov, ap gov&politics).

UW 4.0. They like kids that get As and 5s in Eng lit, Eng lang, and are well rounded.

your kid is either at a super-feeder private OR the highest math the school offered was AB calc, OR they had a hook.
1/3 of the entire high school does BC in either 11th then vector cal in 12, or does BC in 12th. The ivy/t10 admits who have no hooks almost all come from the highest math level, a couple liberal arts/history kids/drama kids come from the group who ended with BC(our second highest track). All those unhooked ivy admits take AP/highest level in every other non-math area too. Even in-state UVA rarely takes from the group that ends with AB Calc: uva accepts about 25% of our high school graduating class, though many in the top 10% ED ivy and withdraw the uva EA so there would be more. Relative rigor matters. A lot. For all schools but especially the T25 and up

Wrong at our HS^

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take after going through the college application process with two kids is that applying to true reach schools (ie schools where you’re child has less than 5% chance at admission) is a net negative.

Both of my kids had good grades at good schools, excellent ECs with top ten percent test scores and all advanced classes. This made them competitive for T50 schools but really long shots at T10 schools. But like everyone around here we applied to a mix of target, safety and reach schools. The results were exactly as predicted. Admitted to every school except the reaches.

The prevailing wisdom is - “at least you took your shot.” However, I think that sentiment overlooks the cost of applying to reach schools:

1. Fees. While application fees are small potatoes when thinking about college costs its not nothing- I certainly would have preferred to take my wife out to a nice dinner rather than send Princeton, Harvard and U of C almost $300.

2. Time and trouble. The reach schools’ applications are considerably more trouble than other colleges. I particularly dislike U of C’s zany question. Both of my kids spent hours brainstorming, drafting and editing their essays. All time that would have been better spent enjoying their senior year.

3. Disappointment. Life already has its bumps and troubles you don’t have to go look for them. While my kids didn’t have big expectations and therefore weren’t terribly disappointed each rejection did take the air out of the evening. It also makes for uncomfortable moments with well meaning grandparents, aunts, uncles etc.

4. Waitlisted. The worst position is being waitlisted. It creates all kinds of distractions and makes planning difficult.

Look, of your kid is a good candidate for a top school go for it. But if your kid is a standard issue overachiever save yourself the money, time and trouble.

Most parents cannot tell the difference and do not know how to read the Scoir scattergrams from their high school or correctly interpret the school profile to assess where their kid really stands.
"4.4 Weighted, 1520, 9 APs", but their APs are Geo, Stats, AB calc, Econ, Gov, Bio, APES, APUSH, ForLang and that GPA means they are borderline for the top 20%...when the top 5% rigor at their school takes something like AP lit, BC calc and vector calc/linear, AP chem, Physics C, Bio, APUSH, Foreign Lang...and the top 5% wgpa is 4.7+
Parents are clueless and push their kids toward out of reach schools.

So wrong. My kid is in poly sci at an Ivy. Highest math AP calc AB, only AP science Bio. All the rest were English and 4 histories (euro, us, comparative gov, ap gov&politics).

UW 4.0. They like kids that get As and 5s in Eng lit, Eng lang, and are well rounded.

your kid is either at a super-feeder private OR the highest math the school offered was AB calc, OR they had a hook.
1/3 of the entire high school does BC in either 11th then vector cal in 12, or does BC in 12th. The ivy/t10 admits who have no hooks almost all come from the highest math level, a couple liberal arts/history kids/drama kids come from the group who ended with BC(our second highest track). All those unhooked ivy admits take AP/highest level in every other non-math area too. Even in-state UVA rarely takes from the group that ends with AB Calc: uva accepts about 25% of our high school graduating class, though many in the top 10% ED ivy and withdraw the uva EA so there would be more. Relative rigor matters. A lot. For all schools but especially the T25 and up

Np. My kid (non-DMV private) is at Ivy now. Highest math was AB (BC is also offered).

Sometimes ppl like you - who want to appear to know everything but really only know very little and only about how things work in your very small tiny little bubble - are wrong.

+100 my unhooked kids stopped at Calc Ab. Got into Hopkins, UVA, a few Ivies. 5s on all APs one in each core subject. Only AP Bio for science

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we put the blame on what the real problem is - grade inflation. If you’re older than 40 a 3.7-4.0 is a crazy gpa. In my high school (which 30 years ago). Only a handful of kids had 4.0s. Most kids had a couple of C’s. On their transcript. So when your kids comes to you with a 4.1 you think he would have been the valedictorian.

The schools have played a dirty game with parents where they secure your inaction with phony grades. Who’s gonna schedule a parent teacher conference because thier kids got an A-. But of course an A- today is really a B-/C+.

Previous teacher at MCPS W school ten years ago and the amount of obnoxious parents calling and demanding conferences and grade changes when their kids got a B drives teachers over the edge. When I was in highschool 30+ years ago, parents didn't helicopter like today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top 10% test scores are not in range for T10 schools.

Yeah that’s what makes them reaches. Try to keep up.

Top 10% test scores is ~1350. That is not a "reach" at T10. It's basically impossible without a hook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top 10% test scores are not in range for T10 schools.

Yeah that’s what makes them reaches. Try to keep up.

Due to low acceptance rates, T10s are long reaches even for students with top academic stats. Students accepted with scores out of range tend to be hooked.

Some are still TO.

Indeed. Back when tests were required, most applicants with scores out of range would simply not have entertained the idea of applying. While certainly many students have been accepted TO over the past three cycles, and this varies by school now that some are back to requiring scores, TO brought a pie-in-the-sky, false idea of what applicants are actually competitive for top schools.

It made every kid with a 3.8 or higher think they had a chance.
So why not apply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this is a post I need to wait until April 1 (when all decisions are in) to comment on. My short take is, sometimes you don't know what's a reach until after the fact. Because my kid is at a title 1 high school, we don't have to pay application fees, score report fees or CSS fees. So absent the cost factor, if she wants to write essays to see if she's got a shot at some Ivys or the like, go for it. We'll find out in 2.5 months if any of it was worth doing.

Title 1 is a hook these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes! The prevailing wisdom is to apply to several reaches, targets, and safeties. But actually, reaches aren't necessary at all. Most important is finding a good fit: socially, academically, and financially.

Our HS counselor is conservative. We wasted so much $ on target/safeties. Got into all. Then got in RD to 2 Ivies, Hopkins, Williams, etc. With our next kid we are cutting out so many of those that older sibling applied to. Younger one has even more rigor/stats. I made the mistake of listening to this board and everyone’s horror stories

Applying to safeties is like buying insurance.

Extremely cheap insurance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree in the sense that the whole process for applying to and attending college in this country should be much more streamlined, affordable, and practical than it is. The current system is very broken.

You're not going to like the answer that most countries have to this problem.

Everybody takes a standardized test and the applicants sort themselves based on the requirements of the college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes! The prevailing wisdom is to apply to several reaches, targets, and safeties. But actually, reaches aren't necessary at all. Most important is finding a good fit: socially, academically, and financially.

Our HS counselor is conservative. We wasted so much $ on target/safeties. Got into all. Then got in RD to 2 Ivies, Hopkins, Williams, etc. With our next kid we are cutting out so many of those that older sibling applied to. Younger one has even more rigor/stats. I made the mistake of listening to this board and everyone’s horror stories

Applying to safeties is like buying insurance.

100%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes! The prevailing wisdom is to apply to several reaches, targets, and safeties. But actually, reaches aren't necessary at all. Most important is finding a good fit: socially, academically, and financially.

Our HS counselor is conservative. We wasted so much $ on target/safeties. Got into all. Then got in RD to 2 Ivies, Hopkins, Williams, etc. With our next kid we are cutting out so many of those that older sibling applied to. Younger one has even more rigor/stats. I made the mistake of listening to this board and everyone’s horror stories

Applying to safeties is like buying insurance.

True, but kid was way over-insured. lol