In opposition to reach schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top 10% test scores are not in range for T10 schools.

Yeah that’s what makes them reaches. Try to keep up.

Due to low acceptance rates, T10s are long reaches even for students with top academic stats. Students accepted with scores out of range tend to be hooked.

Some are still TO.

Yes, the hooked ones. Unhooked top 10% test scorers have a snowball's chance of admission. It's a long reach for the top 1% of unhooked applicants. No reason they shouldn't play the lottery. Below that it's a waste of time and money, as you've noted.

TO kid here, unhooked and not in top 10%. Admitted to 3 IVYs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top 10% test scores are not in range for T10 schools.

Yeah that’s what makes them reaches. Try to keep up.

Due to low acceptance rates, T10s are long reaches even for students with top academic stats. Students accepted with scores out of range tend to be hooked.

Some are still TO.

Yes, the hooked ones. Unhooked top 10% test scorers have a snowball's chance of admission. It's a long reach for the top 1% of unhooked applicants. No reason they shouldn't play the lottery. Below that it's a waste of time and money, as you've noted.

TO kid here, unhooked and not in top 10%. Admitted to 3 IVYs.

Is this the kid that sold his company and donated the $50,000 to charity? You post this on every thread .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree in the sense that the whole process for applying to and attending college in this country should be much more streamlined, affordable, and practical than it is. The current system is very broken.

I agree. When you add up all the costs of the whole application process, including application fees, test fees, and fees to send scores (and I'm not counting people who pay for test prep and pay for private counselors), its hundreds of dollars, and most kids end up at a very predictable school where had they just admitted that was the likely result, they would have saved enough money to cover the cost of college books.

If you qualify for fee waivers, have at it and throw everything at the wall, but if you are paying for the whole process -- ED to a target and be done with it.

[Anonymous]

Reach for my kid was only in the sense of 3-5% acceptance rates. He had the straight As, rigor, 35 ACT, 5s all AP exams and well-rounded ecs.

He did well RD. In at 2 Ivies, Hopkins and several T15/20s.

We still call them “reach”, merely based on selectivity—not reaching for schools above gpa/scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this is a post I need to wait until April 1 (when all decisions are in) to comment on. My short take is, sometimes you don't know what's a reach until after the fact. Because my kid is at a title 1 high school, we don't have to pay application fees, score report fees or CSS fees. So absent the cost factor, if she wants to write essays to see if she's got a shot at some Ivys or the like, go for it. We'll find out in 2.5 months if any of it was worth doing.

Same for us. I hope y’all get good news!

[Anonymous]

Eh, we have the money and the time. My senior is competitive enough so they want to shoot their shot. I support it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this is a post I need to wait until April 1 (when all decisions are in) to comment on. My short take is, sometimes you don't know what's a reach until after the fact. Because my kid is at a title 1 high school, we don't have to pay application fees, score report fees or CSS fees. So absent the cost factor, if she wants to write essays to see if she's got a shot at some Ivys or the like, go for it. We'll find out in 2.5 months if any of it was worth doing.

Same for us. I hope y’all get good news!

Exactly. You really don’t know what the story is until your applications are completed and really when the results come. If your student is accepted to several high reaches, were they actually high reaches? And perhaps your reaches are actually targets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree in the sense that the whole process for applying to and attending college in this country should be much more streamlined, affordable, and practical than it is. The current system is very broken.

I agree. When you add up all the costs of the whole application process, including application fees, test fees, and fees to send scores (and I'm not counting people who pay for test prep and pay for private counselors), its hundreds of dollars, and most kids end up at a very predictable school where had they just admitted that was the likely result, they would have saved enough money to cover the cost of college books.

If you qualify for fee waivers, have at it and throw everything at the wall, but if you are paying for the whole process -- ED to a target and be done with it.

100%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take after going through the college application process with two kids is that applying to true reach schools (ie schools where you’re child has less than 5% chance at admission) is a net negative.

Both of my kids had good grades at good schools, excellent ECs with top ten percent test scores and all advanced classes. This made them competitive for T50 schools but really long shots at T10 schools. But like everyone around here we applied to a mix of target, safety and reach schools. The results were exactly as predicted. Admitted to every school except the reaches.

The prevailing wisdom is - “at least you took your shot.” However, I think that sentiment overlooks the cost of applying to reach schools:

1. Fees. While application fees are small potatoes when thinking about college costs its not nothing- I certainly would have preferred to take my wife out to a nice dinner rather than send Princeton, Harvard and U of C almost $300.

2. Time and trouble. The reach schools’ applications are considerably more trouble than other colleges. I particularly dislike U of C’s zany question. Both of my kids spent hours brainstorming, drafting and editing their essays. All time that would have been better spent enjoying their senior year.

3. Disappointment. Life already has its bumps and troubles you don’t have to go look for them. While my kids didn’t have big expectations and therefore weren’t terribly disappointed each rejection did take the air out of the evening. It also makes for uncomfortable moments with well meaning grandparents, aunts, uncles etc.

4. Waitlisted. The worst position is being waitlisted. It creates all kinds of distractions and makes planning difficult.

Look, of your kid is a good candidate for a top school go for it. But if your kid is a standard issue overachiever save yourself the money, time and trouble.

+100

Schools like Harvard and other ivy leagues could increase seats (supply) as there is more than enough demand for these old institutional brand names. And there's no shortage of highly qualified overachiever wonderful kids that they would have zero dip in quality. But like medical school, they constrain supply of their grads and maintain prestige through uber scarcity.

Personally, I have no interest in contributing to their denominator of rejected students or help them further reduce their acceptance rate from 4 to 3 per cent. It does nothing for our family but cost money and time with no payoff.

Where you go to school for 4 years is not worth this much stress.

Finally. Sense and reason arrive on this board.

I agree we don’t need to help these schools become even more rejective.

Wholeheartedly agree. These schools send an endless stream of emails and flyers to these kids too enticing them repeatedly to apply. Usually based on maybe a PSAT score? I don't know. Lesson learned for my next kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree in the sense that the whole process for applying to and attending college in this country should be much more streamlined, affordable, and practical than it is. The current system is very broken.

I agree. When you add up all the costs of the whole application process, including application fees, test fees, and fees to send scores (and I'm not counting people who pay for test prep and pay for private counselors), its hundreds of dollars, and most kids end up at a very predictable school where had they just admitted that was the likely result, they would have saved enough money to cover the cost of college books.

If you qualify for fee waivers, have at it and throw everything at the wall, but if you are paying for the whole process -- ED to a target and be done with it.

Ok, this would be good advice except that most schools don't have an ED option and lots of people need to make financial comparisons

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I wish we knew all decisions in December and then he wouldn't have wasted his time on four more applications in January.

I know we are part of the problem and I regret it, we should have just said no to applying to these schools and the sad part is my kid is above every stat they publish. Doesn't matter when his parents are college educated, upper middle class, etc.

Totally agree with this.

[Anonymous]

ITA with the OP. My first kid ED's a target and it was the best decision ever. Second kid will be trickier because technically he'll probably meet the stats to consider applying to Ivies and the like. But with a 4% admission rate, why bother? It's so tempting for every kid or parent to think they will be the one, but most of the time (from public schools) they aren't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My personal favorite is my son got an email from U Chicago saying "even though deadline has passed you can still apply".

Ummm, yeah, not going to add to your pile of denials, pretty sure no one who applies after the deadline has a shot, they just want to pad their acceptance %

DD got the same email from Columbia. But I read it as “the first application deadline has passed, but there’s still time to apply to Columbia.” Maybe the UChicago note was worded differently…

[Anonymous]

Agree with OP in that so many people get wrapped up in the prestige of the “reach” that they don’t stop to question the costs you outlined in your post. That said, if you are a top student with top stats and one of these T10 schools is your dream school, it is worth the effort. T10 is a reach for everyone and people need to be a lot more realistic about who applies in the first place. Only apply if you are truly exceptional and you truly want to go. Don’t do it for grandpa or for vanity or whatever.

DS1 with excellent stats etc absolutely loved those zany UChi questions and it truly was his dream school. He was meh on other “top schools.” He applied and was accepted ED at U Chicago. DS2 had very high stats as well but viewed “top schools” differently schools—nice places where he might want to go if he got in but wasn’t worth making himself crazy over. DS2 applied to a range of schools with the reaches being well known SLACs. He got into most, rejected/WL at two others. DSs had different approaches and experiences but they both were remarkably clear eyed in what they wanted and what to expect so it was fine. And they both ended up at places they love and did/are doing great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree in the sense that the whole process for applying to and attending college in this country should be much more streamlined, affordable, and practical than it is. The current system is very broken.

I agree. When you add up all the costs of the whole application process, including application fees, test fees, and fees to send scores (and I'm not counting people who pay for test prep and pay for private counselors), its hundreds of dollars, and most kids end up at a very predictable school where had they just admitted that was the likely result, they would have saved enough money to cover the cost of college books.

If you qualify for fee waivers, have at it and throw everything at the wall, but if you are paying for the whole process -- ED to a target and be done with it.

Is putting your kid on the best possible path not worth “hundreds of dollars?” How cheap are you? I get the absurdity of a not so high stats student chasing the impossible but if reaches are viable, even if low probability, why not pay the $60 fee? No risk it, no biscuit!