In opposition to reach schools

[Anonymous]

Can we put the blame on what the real problem is - grade inflation. If you’re older than 40 a 3.7-4.0 is a crazy gpa. In my high school (which 30 years ago). Only a handful of kids had 4.0s. Most kids had a couple of C’s. On their transcript. So when your kids comes to you with a 4.1 you think he would have been the valedictorian.

The schools have played a dirty game with parents where they secure your inaction with phony grades. Who’s gonna schedule a parent teacher conference because thier kids got an A-. But of course an A- today is really a B-/C+.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My take after going through the college application process with two kids is that applying to true reach schools (ie schools where you’re child has less than 5% chance at admission) is a net negative.

Both of my kids had good grades at good schools, excellent ECs with top ten percent test scores and all advanced classes. This made them competitive for T50 schools but really long shots at T10 schools. But like everyone around here we applied to a mix of target, safety and reach schools. The results were exactly as predicted. Admitted to every school except the reaches.

The prevailing wisdom is - “at least you took your shot.” However, I think that sentiment overlooks the cost of applying to reach schools:

1. Fees. While application fees are small potatoes when thinking about college costs its not nothing- I certainly would have preferred to take my wife out to a nice dinner rather than send Princeton, Harvard and U of C almost $300.

2. Time and trouble. The reach schools’ applications are considerably more trouble than other colleges. I particularly dislike U of C’s zany question. Both of my kids spent hours brainstorming, drafting and editing their essays. All time that would have been better spent enjoying their senior year.

3. Disappointment. Life already has its bumps and troubles you don’t have to go look for them. While my kids didn’t have big expectations and therefore weren’t terribly disappointed each rejection did take the air out of the evening. It also makes for uncomfortable moments with well meaning grandparents, aunts, uncles etc.

4. Waitlisted. The worst position is being waitlisted. It creates all kinds of distractions and makes planning difficult.

Look, of your kid is a good candidate for a top school go for it. But if your kid is a standard issue overachiever save yourself the money, time and trouble.

Most parents cannot tell the difference and do not know how to read the Scoir scattergrams from their high school or correctly interpret the school profile to assess where their kid really stands.
"4.4 Weighted, 1520, 9 APs", but their APs are Geo, Stats, AB calc, Econ, Gov, Bio, APES, APUSH, ForLang and that GPA means they are borderline for the top 20%...when the top 5% rigor at their school takes something like AP lit, BC calc and vector calc/linear, AP chem, Physics C, Bio, APUSH, Foreign Lang...and the top 5% wgpa is 4.7+
Parents are clueless and push their kids toward out of reach schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reach for my kid was only in the sense of 3-5% acceptance rates. He had the straight As, rigor, 35 ACT, 5s all AP exams and well-rounded ecs.

He did well RD. In at 2 Ivies, Hopkins and several T15/20s.

We still call them “reach”, merely based on selectivity—not reaching for schools above gpa/scores.

Yes. Some kids have the lottery ticket for anywhere. There are zero reach based on their merit. They are reach only because the school has low acceptance rates and so many kids with tippy top grades scores and too few seats.

[Anonymous]

Hindsight makes a lot of difference in how students and their families feel about applying to reaches.

My 2024 DC who was unhooked, had a high (but not perfect) GPA, 1510 SAT, interesting and authentic ECs (but not national awards or anything like that), was admitted RD to 4 ivies. DC is at Yale and is incredibly happy there. Of course our family feels like it was worth the application fees and extra essays to apply to these schools. I suspect that if DC hadn't won the lottery (and I do understand that it's a lottery), we would feel differently. But you can't ever know that unless you've taken a shot.

[Anonymous]

+1 to the poster who made the comment about parents not understanding where their kid is compared to peers. This is where good CCs really come in, but so many parents ignore recommendations. And on top of that, it is very difficult to gauge who will be accepted where now—TO and grade inflation have made it difficult for even very knowledgeable parents to understand reach/likely/target options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My personal favorite is my son got an email from U Chicago saying "even though deadline has passed you can still apply".

Ummm, yeah, not going to add to your pile of denials, pretty sure no one who applies after the deadline has a shot, they just want to pad their acceptance %

Wth is wrong with Chicago? I know they're under a lot of financial stress, but they embarrass themselves with these tactics. It's bad enough that everyone seems to know that they'll about any and every full pay private school kid who applies ED.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes! The prevailing wisdom is to apply to several reaches, targets, and safeties. But actually, reaches aren't necessary at all. Most important is finding a good fit: socially, academically, and financially.

Our HS counselor is conservative. We wasted so much $ on target/safeties. Got into all. Then got in RD to 2 Ivies, Hopkins, Williams, etc. With our next kid we are cutting out so many of those that older sibling applied to. Younger one has even more rigor/stats. I made the mistake of listening to this board and everyone’s horror stories

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes! The prevailing wisdom is to apply to several reaches, targets, and safeties. But actually, reaches aren't necessary at all. Most important is finding a good fit: socially, academically, and financially.

Our HS counselor is conservative. We wasted so much $ on target/safeties. Got into all. Then got in RD to 2 Ivies, Hopkins, Williams, etc. With our next kid we are cutting out so many of those that older sibling applied to. Younger one has even more rigor/stats. I made the mistake of listening to this board and everyone’s horror stories

Haha. You go girl! Get those Ivies for your boy!

[Anonymous]

I don't think any of your reasons are good enough. The work, critical thinking, and time-management skill development that goes into those applications are far more valuable than a $300 dinner out. As long as they go into it with a healthy perspective, the process can contribute quite a lot to emotional, social, and intellectual development. I'm sorry you're frustated, but your arguments are weak.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hindsight makes a lot of difference in how students and their families feel about applying to reaches.

My 2024 DC who was unhooked, had a high (but not perfect) GPA, 1510 SAT, interesting and authentic ECs (but not national awards or anything like that), was admitted RD to 4 ivies. DC is at Yale and is incredibly happy there. Of course our family feels like it was worth the application fees and extra essays to apply to these schools. I suspect that if DC hadn't won the lottery (and I do understand that it's a lottery), we would feel differently. But you can't ever know that unless you've taken a shot.

Similar story here.
High but definitely not perfect gpa (think some B+ in foreign language).
1500 SAT.

My kid’s EC/academic interests connected and were extremely unique, well-documented with a long trail of non-fancy (mostly non-kid) accomplishments - (meaning no-awards in the traditional sense).
Creator of an operating small business (very small and local filling a community void, but real and definitely not fancy or a non-profit)
Non-traditional applicant without the bells & whistles of a traditional modern student - I’ve posted here before.

Admitted to 4 T20, including Ivy in RD last year.

Key = very authentic pointy interest that cannot be faked and seeped into every aspect of application. Not well-rounded at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:+1 to the poster who made the comment about parents not understanding where their kid is compared to peers. This is where good CCs really come in, but so many parents ignore recommendations. And on top of that, it is very difficult to gauge who will be accepted where now—TO and grade inflation have made it difficult for even very knowledgeable parents to understand reach/likely/target options.

Ask your CCO where your kid is in relation to bc others.

Be honest with yourself: does your kid stand out from the pack in some meaningful way?

Apply to selective colleges where everyone else is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My take after going through the college application process with two kids is that applying to true reach schools (ie schools where you’re child has less than 5% chance at admission) is a net negative.

Both of my kids had good grades at good schools, excellent ECs with top ten percent test scores and all advanced classes. This made them competitive for T50 schools but really long shots at T10 schools. But like everyone around here we applied to a mix of target, safety and reach schools. The results were exactly as predicted. Admitted to every school except the reaches.

The prevailing wisdom is - “at least you took your shot.” However, I think that sentiment overlooks the cost of applying to reach schools:

1. Fees. While application fees are small potatoes when thinking about college costs its not nothing- I certainly would have preferred to take my wife out to a nice dinner rather than send Princeton, Harvard and U of C almost $300.

2. Time and trouble. The reach schools’ applications are considerably more trouble than other colleges. I particularly dislike U of C’s zany question. Both of my kids spent hours brainstorming, drafting and editing their essays. All time that would have been better spent enjoying their senior year.

3. Disappointment. Life already has its bumps and troubles you don’t have to go look for them. While my kids didn’t have big expectations and therefore weren’t terribly disappointed each rejection did take the air out of the evening. It also makes for uncomfortable moments with well meaning grandparents, aunts, uncles etc.

4. Waitlisted. The worst position is being waitlisted. It creates all kinds of distractions and makes planning difficult.

Look, of your kid is a good candidate for a top school go for it. But if your kid is a standard issue overachiever save yourself the money, time and trouble.

Just a reminder that you weren’t the one applying.

As far as the kid, this is why you need to look at more than rankings when you pick a school. My son enjoyed the U of C uncommon essay tremendously. He didn’t particularly like writing in general, but this was fun.

[Anonymous]

I told my kid 1540 4.0 great ECs kid that I'd pay for any application but that he had to be fully prepared for the rejections. Rejections always sting even if you brace for them. It's a lot of work (the application and the years of effort) to get a curt no, but my feeling is disappointments build character and no risk, no reward (two cliches for you!). My kid really wanted more of a challenge and more of an intellectual atmosphere than high school.

Anyway, the process is brutal for the ambitious kids but I may not sorry he went through it and neither is he. He got into several reaches (applied to 15), not his first choices but still excellent schools. Every single school, from his one safety to his handful of targets to his reaches were thoroughly researched and true options.

If he hadn't applied to such a range of reaches, he wouldn't be where he is today. Like I said, it wasn't one of his top choices but he is very happy there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take after going through the college application process with two kids is that applying to true reach schools (ie schools where you’re child has less than 5% chance at admission) is a net negative.

Both of my kids had good grades at good schools, excellent ECs with top ten percent test scores and all advanced classes. This made them competitive for T50 schools but really long shots at T10 schools. But like everyone around here we applied to a mix of target, safety and reach schools. The results were exactly as predicted. Admitted to every school except the reaches.

The prevailing wisdom is - “at least you took your shot.” However, I think that sentiment overlooks the cost of applying to reach schools:

1. Fees. While application fees are small potatoes when thinking about college costs its not nothing- I certainly would have preferred to take my wife out to a nice dinner rather than send Princeton, Harvard and U of C almost $300.

2. Time and trouble. The reach schools’ applications are considerably more trouble than other colleges. I particularly dislike U of C’s zany question. Both of my kids spent hours brainstorming, drafting and editing their essays. All time that would have been better spent enjoying their senior year.

3. Disappointment. Life already has its bumps and troubles you don’t have to go look for them. While my kids didn’t have big expectations and therefore weren’t terribly disappointed each rejection did take the air out of the evening. It also makes for uncomfortable moments with well meaning grandparents, aunts, uncles etc.

4. Waitlisted. The worst position is being waitlisted. It creates all kinds of distractions and makes planning difficult.

Look, of your kid is a good candidate for a top school go for it. But if your kid is a standard issue overachiever save yourself the money, time and trouble.

Most parents cannot tell the difference and do not know how to read the Scoir scattergrams from their high school or correctly interpret the school profile to assess where their kid really stands.
"4.4 Weighted, 1520, 9 APs", but their APs are Geo, Stats, AB calc, Econ, Gov, Bio, APES, APUSH, ForLang and that GPA means they are borderline for the top 20%...when the top 5% rigor at their school takes something like AP lit, BC calc and vector calc/linear, AP chem, Physics C, Bio, APUSH, Foreign Lang...and the top 5% wgpa is 4.7+
Parents are clueless and push their kids toward out of reach schools.

So wrong. My kid is in poly sci at an Ivy. Highest math AP calc AB, only AP science Bio. All the rest were English and 4 histories (euro, us, comparative gov, ap gov&politics).

UW 4.0. They like kids that get As and 5s in Eng lit, Eng lang, and are well rounded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My personal favorite is my son got an email from U Chicago saying "even though deadline has passed you can still apply".

Ummm, yeah, not going to add to your pile of denials, pretty sure no one who applies after the deadline has a shot, they just want to pad their acceptance %

Wth is wrong with Chicago? I know they're under a lot of financial stress, but they embarrass themselves with these tactics. It's bad enough that everyone seems to know that they'll about any and every full pay private school kid who applies ED.

As an adult, do you feel any regret sh*tposting about 17-year-olds? The average SAT at UChicago is 1540. “Any and every full pay private school kid?” It’s tempting to assume that you’re just bitter that your kid didn’t get in, but perhaps you’re just a jerk.