693 FCPS Students Named National Merit Commended Scholars in 2024

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Kids should be evaluated holistically and much more comprehensively than the current process allows, but the evaluation absolutely should be relative to the offerings of the kid's zoned school and their abilities relative to the other kids at their school. Picking the top 1% or 1.5% at each school is appropriate, as long as the process is comprehensive enough to get the correct top kids.”

+1
Absolutely. The by MS process needs adjusted so it can find the best kids at that specific school. Right now that is not necessarily the case - fix that and that corrects most of the issue with the new approach.

I’m as pro-reform as you can get and I agree with the above as well. It’s the one concern that I have with the new process, that it’s not identifying the right kids from the non-feeder schools. Deeper analysis is needed that is not available to us, but it does need to be done.

Agree. Adding a look at SOLs seems like a fair way of evaluating applicants.

They will never do that.
In 2023-2024, the number of URM getting advanced pass in geometry SOL is 904.
46 of them were low income
472 of them were asian (31 of them were low income)
22 were black (3 of them were low income)
37 were hispanic (5 of them were low income)
402 were white (7 of them were low income)

So using SOL advance pass as a filter would mostly just increase the number of white students who are not low income.

How about algebra?

DP It would be useful to consider 7th grade SOL scores in TJ admissions decisions as an objective measure of content mastery. Given the SOL's use of computer adaptive testing, FCPS might not want to use an absolute threshold, but rather one in the near vicinity of a set threshold. For illustrative purposes, here is the breakdown of pass advanced totals for all FCPS 7th grade students taking SOLs in 2023-24 - e.g. SOL for Math 7, Math 8, Algebra 1, and Geometry. (There were too few Algebra 2 scores to report race breakdowns.)

Number of FCPS 7th graders scoring SOL Pass Advanced (2023-24)
Asian: Math 7--23 , Math 8--237, Algebra 1--623, Geometry--24
Black: Math 7--3, Math 8--34, Algebra 1--37, Geometry--0
Hispanic: Math 7--7, Math 8--86, Algebra 1--56, Geometry--<
White:Math 7--55, Math 8--422, Algebra 1--428, Geometry--<
Mixed Race, non-Hispanic: Math7--5, Math 8--78, Algebra 1--96, Geometry--<

All FCPS 7th graders scoring SOL Pass Advanced (2023-24): 2,214
Asian: 907, Black: 74, Hispanic: 149, White: 905, Mixed Race, non-Hispanic: 179

Not all of those students would apply to TJ, so a slightly lower SOL score threshold could be used to ensure the overall applicant pool meets a minimum size.

But students taking Math 7 wouldn't be eligible to apply so it would have been 2,122 for kids received a pass advanced in Math 8+.

You could extend the eligibility to the kids who received a pass proficient for Algebra 1+. That would make it 2,709 eligible students from FCPS, keeping in mind that a large % of the eligible white and Hispanic kids won't apply.

Some of the test numbers are shocking. More than half of the Hispanic kids fail their math SOL in 7th grade.

Students can move from Math 7 in 7th grade to Algebra 1 or Algebra 1 HN in 8th grade. The latter two courses have a prerequisite of either Math 7 and/or Pre-Algebra.
https://insys.fcps.edu/CourseCatOnline/courselist/1042/10/1/1/1/1

TJ's admissions criteria includes being enrolled in Algebra 1 honors in 8th grade or Algebra 1 in 8th grade if their school doesn't offer the honors version. So a student taking Math 7 in 7th grade and either Algebra 1 (in some cases) or Algebra 1 honors in 8th grade meets the admission requirements.
"To be eligible for consideration, when the application window opens, applicants must: (1) have completed a full-year course of Algebra 1, or be currently enrolled in a full-year course of honors-level Algebra 1; applicants attending schools whose curricular programs do not include “honors” Algebra 1 courses must have completed or be enrolled in a full-year course of the highest level of Algebra 1 available at their school" https://www.fcps.edu/registration/thomas-jefferson-admissions/eligibility-requirements

Interesting. I didn't realize they could go straight from Math 7.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Kids should be evaluated holistically and much more comprehensively than the current process allows, but the evaluation absolutely should be relative to the offerings of the kid's zoned school and their abilities relative to the other kids at their school. Picking the top 1% or 1.5% at each school is appropriate, as long as the process is comprehensive enough to get the correct top kids.”

+1
Absolutely. The by MS process needs adjusted so it can find the best kids at that specific school. Right now that is not necessarily the case - fix that and that corrects most of the issue with the new approach.

I’m as pro-reform as you can get and I agree with the above as well. It’s the one concern that I have with the new process, that it’s not identifying the right kids from the non-feeder schools. Deeper analysis is needed that is not available to us, but it does need to be done.

Agree. Adding a look at SOLs seems like a fair way of evaluating applicants.

They will never do that.
In 2023-2024, the number of students getting advanced pass in geometry SOL is 904.
46 of them were low income
472 of them were asian (31 of them were low income)
22 were black (3 of them were low income)
37 were hispanic (5 of them were low income)
402 were white (7 of them were low income)

So using SOL advance pass as a filter would mostly just increase the number of white students who are not low income.

How about algebra?

What about it?

Here is the website, you can fiddle around with it but algebra in 8th grade is already pretty mid.

https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex_captcha/home.do?apexTypeId=306

You only presented partial data. You can’t really draw any conclusions when you only look at a subset of the kids.

I presented all the geometry advanced pass data.

ETA. I presented all the 8th grade geometry advanced pass data.
That's already 904 kids for ~306 spots (only about 306 of those spots go to FCPS students, the rest go to Loudon, Arlington, PW, Falls Church)
Add the 8th grade algebra advanced pass and you are adding over 1400 more kids
That's 2300 kids for 306 spots.

There's only about 14k 8th graders in FCPS.

For the class of 2025 (the only year for which I have seen info), 117 out of 306 (almost 40%) students were not receiving AAP level 4 coursework
The admission rate for AAP kids was about 18%, for non-AAP kids about 13%
The percentage of freshmen that took the minimum math requirement in 8th grade (algebra) went from 5% to 31%

And? AAP shouldn't be a requirement.

And there is more in the PP than AAP.

SOL for algebra is not very useful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Kids should be evaluated holistically and much more comprehensively than the current process allows, but the evaluation absolutely should be relative to the offerings of the kid's zoned school and their abilities relative to the other kids at their school. Picking the top 1% or 1.5% at each school is appropriate, as long as the process is comprehensive enough to get the correct top kids.”

+1
Absolutely. The by MS process needs adjusted so it can find the best kids at that specific school. Right now that is not necessarily the case - fix that and that corrects most of the issue with the new approach.

I’m as pro-reform as you can get and I agree with the above as well. It’s the one concern that I have with the new process, that it’s not identifying the right kids from the non-feeder schools. Deeper analysis is needed that is not available to us, but it does need to be done.

Agree. Adding a look at SOLs seems like a fair way of evaluating applicants.

They will never do that.
In 2023-2024, the number of URM getting advanced pass in geometry SOL is 904.
46 of them were low income
472 of them were asian (31 of them were low income)
22 were black (3 of them were low income)
37 were hispanic (5 of them were low income)
402 were white (7 of them were low income)

So using SOL advance pass as a filter would mostly just increase the number of white students who are not low income.

How about algebra?

DP It would be useful to consider 7th grade SOL scores in TJ admissions decisions as an objective measure of content mastery. Given the SOL's use of computer adaptive testing, FCPS might not want to use an absolute threshold, but rather one in the near vicinity of a set threshold. For illustrative purposes, here is the breakdown of pass advanced totals for all FCPS 7th grade students taking SOLs in 2023-24 - e.g. SOL for Math 7, Math 8, Algebra 1, and Geometry. (There were too few Algebra 2 scores to report race breakdowns.)

Number of FCPS 7th graders scoring SOL Pass Advanced (2023-24)
Asian: Math 7--23 , Math 8--237, Algebra 1--623, Geometry--24
Black: Math 7--3, Math 8--34, Algebra 1--37, Geometry--0
Hispanic: Math 7--7, Math 8--86, Algebra 1--56, Geometry--<
White:Math 7--55, Math 8--422, Algebra 1--428, Geometry--<
Mixed Race, non-Hispanic: Math7--5, Math 8--78, Algebra 1--96, Geometry--<

All FCPS 7th graders scoring SOL Pass Advanced (2023-24): 2,214
Asian: 907, Black: 74, Hispanic: 149, White: 905, Mixed Race, non-Hispanic: 179

Not all of those students would apply to TJ, so a slightly lower SOL score threshold could be used to ensure the overall applicant pool meets a minimum size.

But students taking Math 7 wouldn't be eligible to apply so it would have been 2,122 for kids received a pass advanced in Math 8+.

You could extend the eligibility to the kids who received a pass proficient for Algebra 1+. That would make it 2,709 eligible students from FCPS, keeping in mind that a large % of the eligible white and Hispanic kids won't apply.

Some of the test numbers are shocking. More than half of the Hispanic kids fail their math SOL in 7th grade.

Students can move from Math 7 in 7th grade to Algebra 1 or Algebra 1 HN in 8th grade. The latter two courses have a prerequisite of either Math 7 and/or Pre-Algebra.
https://insys.fcps.edu/CourseCatOnline/courselist/1042/10/1/1/1/1

TJ's admissions criteria includes being enrolled in Algebra 1 honors in 8th grade or Algebra 1 in 8th grade if their school doesn't offer the honors version. So a student taking Math 7 in 7th grade and either Algebra 1 (in some cases) or Algebra 1 honors in 8th grade meets the admission requirements.
"To be eligible for consideration, when the application window opens, applicants must: (1) have completed a full-year course of Algebra 1, or be currently enrolled in a full-year course of honors-level Algebra 1; applicants attending schools whose curricular programs do not include “honors” Algebra 1 courses must have completed or be enrolled in a full-year course of the highest level of Algebra 1 available at their school" https://www.fcps.edu/registration/thomas-jefferson-admissions/eligibility-requirements

Are there MS that do not offer Math 7 H or Algebra 1 H? Honestly, can someone point to an example of a MS that does not offer any Honors math options? If that does happen then it is the rare exception to the rule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Kids should be evaluated holistically and much more comprehensively than the current process allows, but the evaluation absolutely should be relative to the offerings of the kid's zoned school and their abilities relative to the other kids at their school. Picking the top 1% or 1.5% at each school is appropriate, as long as the process is comprehensive enough to get the correct top kids.”

+1
Absolutely. The by MS process needs adjusted so it can find the best kids at that specific school. Right now that is not necessarily the case - fix that and that corrects most of the issue with the new approach.

I’m as pro-reform as you can get and I agree with the above as well. It’s the one concern that I have with the new process, that it’s not identifying the right kids from the non-feeder schools. Deeper analysis is needed that is not available to us, but it does need to be done.

Agree. Adding a look at SOLs seems like a fair way of evaluating applicants.

They will never do that.
In 2023-2024, the number of URM getting advanced pass in geometry SOL is 904.
46 of them were low income
472 of them were asian (31 of them were low income)
22 were black (3 of them were low income)
37 were hispanic (5 of them were low income)
402 were white (7 of them were low income)

So using SOL advance pass as a filter would mostly just increase the number of white students who are not low income.

How about algebra?

DP It would be useful to consider 7th grade SOL scores in TJ admissions decisions as an objective measure of content mastery. Given the SOL's use of computer adaptive testing, FCPS might not want to use an absolute threshold, but rather one in the near vicinity of a set threshold. For illustrative purposes, here is the breakdown of pass advanced totals for all FCPS 7th grade students taking SOLs in 2023-24 - e.g. SOL for Math 7, Math 8, Algebra 1, and Geometry. (There were too few Algebra 2 scores to report race breakdowns.)

Number of FCPS 7th graders scoring SOL Pass Advanced (2023-24)
Asian: Math 7--23 , Math 8--237, Algebra 1--623, Geometry--24
Black: Math 7--3, Math 8--34, Algebra 1--37, Geometry--0
Hispanic: Math 7--7, Math 8--86, Algebra 1--56, Geometry--<
White:Math 7--55, Math 8--422, Algebra 1--428, Geometry--<
Mixed Race, non-Hispanic: Math7--5, Math 8--78, Algebra 1--96, Geometry--<

All FCPS 7th graders scoring SOL Pass Advanced (2023-24): 2,214
Asian: 907, Black: 74, Hispanic: 149, White: 905, Mixed Race, non-Hispanic: 179

Not all of those students would apply to TJ, so a slightly lower SOL score threshold could be used to ensure the overall applicant pool meets a minimum size.

But students taking Math 7 wouldn't be eligible to apply so it would have been 2,122 for kids received a pass advanced in Math 8+.

You could extend the eligibility to the kids who received a pass proficient for Algebra 1+. That would make it 2,709 eligible students from FCPS, keeping in mind that a large % of the eligible white and Hispanic kids won't apply.

Some of the test numbers are shocking. More than half of the Hispanic kids fail their math SOL in 7th grade.

Students can move from Math 7 in 7th grade to Algebra 1 or Algebra 1 HN in 8th grade. The latter two courses have a prerequisite of either Math 7 and/or Pre-Algebra.
https://insys.fcps.edu/CourseCatOnline/courselist/1042/10/1/1/1/1

TJ's admissions criteria includes being enrolled in Algebra 1 honors in 8th grade or Algebra 1 in 8th grade if their school doesn't offer the honors version. So a student taking Math 7 in 7th grade and either Algebra 1 (in some cases) or Algebra 1 honors in 8th grade meets the admission requirements.
"To be eligible for consideration, when the application window opens, applicants must: (1) have completed a full-year course of Algebra 1, or be currently enrolled in a full-year course of honors-level Algebra 1; applicants attending schools whose curricular programs do not include “honors” Algebra 1 courses must have completed or be enrolled in a full-year course of the highest level of Algebra 1 available at their school" https://www.fcps.edu/registration/thomas-jefferson-admissions/eligibility-requirements

Interesting. I didn't realize they could go straight from Math 7.

A student can enroll in Algebra 1 H in 7th grade regardless of their IOWA or SOL score. those are used to filter out kids but parents can insist on a student being enrolled in Algebra 1 H in 7th grade without even taking the IOWA or SOL. It is not advertised but it is an option. Is it a good option? Who knows but it is there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are all crazy. A 4% drop in the number of students in the top 97% of students in the County has you foaming at the mouth.

TJ is a public school that should be available to all the MSs in the County, that includes schools with a high poverty level and ELL level. There are smart kids at those schools who have not had the same exposure to math and science as kids from high SES schools. They deserve a chance to be exposed to classes that move at a faster pace and push them just like the kids from higher SES schools. They might not score as high on the SAT but they are better off for being in a school that pushes them and challenges them. They might earn C’s and B’s at TJ but being surrounded by highly motivated peers is a good thing for kids who have never had that type of exposure.

Not every kid at TJ needs to be the same with the same goals. Adding in kids from Poe and Stone and giving them a chance to work with kids who are bright and motivated who have had more exposure to STEM from Carson, Longfellow, Cooper, and Rocky Run is good for those kids. It is challenging them in a different way. They might only score in the 90th percentile on the SAT but they are learning so much more than they would at their base school.

They are smart and gifted, they have not had the same opportunities to explore these fields. Does it show in their grades at TJ and on the SAT? Sure. Are they failures because they are not in the 97th percentile? No. Historically the vast majority of kids at TJ were not in the commended group or the Semi-Finalists based on SAT scores. So now there are a few more kids in that category. TJ still has far more kids in that catagory than any other school in FCPS. McLean, Langley, and Oakton have a few more kids that are the 97th percentile, good for them.

They're mostly just sour grapes over not being able to buy their way into TJ anymore like when people were buying the test answers under the old system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are all crazy. A 4% drop in the number of students in the top 97% of students in the County has you foaming at the mouth.

TJ is a public school that should be available to all the MSs in the County, that includes schools with a high poverty level and ELL level. There are smart kids at those schools who have not had the same exposure to math and science as kids from high SES schools. They deserve a chance to be exposed to classes that move at a faster pace and push them just like the kids from higher SES schools. They might not score as high on the SAT but they are better off for being in a school that pushes them and challenges them. They might earn C’s and B’s at TJ but being surrounded by highly motivated peers is a good thing for kids who have never had that type of exposure.

Not every kid at TJ needs to be the same with the same goals. Adding in kids from Poe and Stone and giving them a chance to work with kids who are bright and motivated who have had more exposure to STEM from Carson, Longfellow, Cooper, and Rocky Run is good for those kids. It is challenging them in a different way. They might only score in the 90th percentile on the SAT but they are learning so much more than they would at their base school.

They are smart and gifted, they have not had the same opportunities to explore these fields. Does it show in their grades at TJ and on the SAT? Sure. Are they failures because they are not in the 97th percentile? No. Historically the vast majority of kids at TJ were not in the commended group or the Semi-Finalists based on SAT scores. So now there are a few more kids in that category. TJ still has far more kids in that catagory than any other school in FCPS. McLean, Langley, and Oakton have a few more kids that are the 97th percentile, good for them.

They're mostly just sour grapes over not being able to buy their way into TJ anymore like when people were buying the test answers under the old system.

It doesn't seem like an improvement to channel the highest achieving kids to AAP centers and then have the same quotas for each middle school, including those with few high achieving kids. Sounds like a political spoils system, not a way to provide opportunities to the most qualified STEM students.