693 FCPS Students Named National Merit Commended Scholars in 2024

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Kids should be evaluated holistically and much more comprehensively than the current process allows, but the evaluation absolutely should be relative to the offerings of the kid's zoned school and their abilities relative to the other kids at their school. Picking the top 1% or 1.5% at each school is appropriate, as long as the process is comprehensive enough to get the correct top kids.”

+1
Absolutely. The by MS process needs adjusted so it can find the best kids at that specific school. Right now that is not necessarily the case - fix that and that corrects most of the issue with the new approach.

I’m as pro-reform as you can get and I agree with the above as well. It’s the one concern that I have with the new process, that it’s not identifying the right kids from the non-feeder schools. Deeper analysis is needed that is not available to us, but it does need to be done.

Agree. Adding a look at SOLs seems like a fair way of evaluating applicants.

Yes. That would have helped the handful of TJ students who failed SOL exams post-freshman and sophomore admissions changes. SOLs test minimum content competency. It is likely that their prior SOL scores would have signaled that they had not built a solid base that would allow them to thrive at TJ. It is hurting students to admit them to a competitive program without adequate preparation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not all about the "cohort". Keep in mind that higher-FARMS schools don't offer anywhere near the number of higher-level courses that lower-FARMS schools offer.

Let's take 2 kids, one zoned for Annandale/FCHS/Justice, the other zoned for Oakton/Langley/McLean. Both equally bright, motivated, not genius level, but smart and STEM-enthusiastic. Both accelerated enough in ES/MS to be taking Alg II H in 8th grade.

Student A (A/F/J) will likely exceed their base school's math course offerings by 10th grade, maybe 11th. If they want to take Multi-Var or AP Statistics, it'll have to be through online / independent study, or trying to cross enroll for one period at a nearby school (a logistical nightmare to deal with different bell schedule, even if the kid has a way to commute on their own). They may or may not have a class available for AP Phys C. They may or may not have an AP class for their foreign language, or even a 4th year language.

Student B (O/L/M) will have all of those courses at their base school, and then some.

So, which student does the county's public school system serve better with an assignment to TJ? The one who literally cannot take 4 years of math at their base school? Or the one who just wants a special class, even though they could get the same at their base school?

This would make sense if we were in fact taking A/F/J students who were likely to run out of math before graduation, but we're not. The overwhelming majority of them are on track to take calculus in their senior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^. The purpose of Governor's schools directly from the VDOE website is this:
"The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers."

I'm a huge proponent of including a test, recommendations, achievements, and math level in the admission process. I also agree that any kid who exceeds the offerings available at their base school belongs at TJ based on the statement of purpose, even if the kid is objectively not as advanced or strong as the top kids from the wealthier schools.

Kids should be evaluated holistically and much more comprehensively than the current process allows, but the evaluation absolutely should be relative to the offerings of the kid's zoned school and their abilities relative to the other kids at their school. Picking the top 1% or 1.5% at each school is appropriate, as long as the process is comprehensive enough to get the correct top kids.

First, it's ambiguous as to whether "age-level peers" refers to the peers at a particular school or throughout a division.

But even assuming it's the former, as you prefer, it's throwing up a giant white flag to take the position that TJ isn't really needed for kids at the strongest schools because they already have a strong cohort. It's an indictment of a jurisdiction and school system that, through a range of historic actions, are responsible for the dearth of strong students at numerous schools. The net result is that TJ ceases to be seen as a beacon of excellence and instead just gets viewed as an escape valve for kids at sub-par base schools. If that's what you want, OK, but then don't expect people to hold TJ in particularly high regard, especially when the majority of its classes aren't even NMSF commended students, much less NMSFs.

We should probably have one of those.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Kids should be evaluated holistically and much more comprehensively than the current process allows, but the evaluation absolutely should be relative to the offerings of the kid's zoned school and their abilities relative to the other kids at their school. Picking the top 1% or 1.5% at each school is appropriate, as long as the process is comprehensive enough to get the correct top kids.”

+1
Absolutely. The by MS process needs adjusted so it can find the best kids at that specific school. Right now that is not necessarily the case - fix that and that corrects most of the issue with the new approach.

I’m as pro-reform as you can get and I agree with the above as well. It’s the one concern that I have with the new process, that it’s not identifying the right kids from the non-feeder schools. Deeper analysis is needed that is not available to us, but it does need to be done.

It's not even picking the right kids at the feeder schools.
Every year there has been a couple of head scratchers that got in and couple of kids that everyone knew should get in but didn't.
There was always a little bit of this in the past, but not like now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Kids should be evaluated holistically and much more comprehensively than the current process allows, but the evaluation absolutely should be relative to the offerings of the kid's zoned school and their abilities relative to the other kids at their school. Picking the top 1% or 1.5% at each school is appropriate, as long as the process is comprehensive enough to get the correct top kids.”

+1
Absolutely. The by MS process needs adjusted so it can find the best kids at that specific school. Right now that is not necessarily the case - fix that and that corrects most of the issue with the new approach.

I’m as pro-reform as you can get and I agree with the above as well. It’s the one concern that I have with the new process, that it’s not identifying the right kids from the non-feeder schools. Deeper analysis is needed that is not available to us, but it does need to be done.

Agree. Adding a look at SOLs seems like a fair way of evaluating applicants.

They will never do that.
In 2023-2024, the number of URM getting advanced pass in geometry SOL is 904.
46 of them were low income
472 of them were asian (31 of them were low income)
22 were black (3 of them were low income)
37 were hispanic (5 of them were low income)
402 were white (7 of them were low income)

So using SOL advance pass as a filter would mostly just increase the number of white students who are not low income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes… if you remove being an excellent test taker from the admissions criteria, you’ll have a class of kids who aren’t necessarily that great at taking standardized tests.

Thankfully, being a good test taker has no practical application other than school admissions processes. So who cares?

I’m more interested in the increase in Regeneron finalists.

For the poster more interested in the Regeneron finalists….7 of the students went to “wealthy feeder middle schools”. 1 from McLean (I’m not sure if the student went to Cooper or Longfellow), 3 students from Cooper (one of the Cooper students also went to Langley and then transferred to TJHSST sophomore year), 2 students from Carson, and 1 student from Longfellow. 1 student was from Stone Hill Middle School in Ashburn (this school has a 62% Asian population).

0 students from any FCPS non-wealthy feeder middle schools.

So, they got in despite and not due to the new process. The one who entered as a froshmore likely was on paper a no-brainer admit who got screwed over by the new admissions process.

I guess one could argue that the new process helped them by cutting down the competition at TJ and somewhat watering down the classes, which in turn let them focus more on their research projects than on their classwork.

If I am reading the PPP post correctly, two of them were froshmores. One from McLean and one from Langley.

The reduced academic stress is real. I would even go so far as to suggest that relaxing grading at TJ has improved extracurricular activity participation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes… if you remove being an excellent test taker from the admissions criteria, you’ll have a class of kids who aren’t necessarily that great at taking standardized tests.

Thankfully, being a good test taker has no practical application other than school admissions processes. So who cares?

I’m more interested in the increase in Regeneron finalists.

For the poster more interested in the Regeneron finalists….7 of the students went to “wealthy feeder middle schools”. 1 from McLean (I’m not sure if the student went to Cooper or Longfellow), 3 students from Cooper (one of the Cooper students also went to Langley and then transferred to TJHSST sophomore year), 2 students from Carson, and 1 student from Longfellow. 1 student was from Stone Hill Middle School in Ashburn (this school has a 62% Asian population).

0 students from any FCPS non-wealthy feeder middle schools.

So, they got in despite and not due to the new process. The one who entered as a froshmore likely was on paper a no-brainer admit who got screwed over by the new admissions process.

I guess one could argue that the new process helped them by cutting down the competition at TJ and somewhat watering down the classes, which in turn let them focus more on their research projects than on their classwork.

If I am reading the PPP post correctly, two of them were froshmores. One from McLean and one from Langley.

The reduced academic stress is real. I would even go so far as to suggest that relaxing grading at TJ has improved extracurricular activity participation.

I could also argue that if they kept the TJ admissions policy as truly race-neutral and merit-based as the original one, there could have been 15 Regeneron winners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes… if you remove being an excellent test taker from the admissions criteria, you’ll have a class of kids who aren’t necessarily that great at taking standardized tests.

Thankfully, being a good test taker has no practical application other than school admissions processes. So who cares?

I’m more interested in the increase in Regeneron finalists.

For the poster more interested in the Regeneron finalists….7 of the students went to “wealthy feeder middle schools”. 1 from McLean (I’m not sure if the student went to Cooper or Longfellow), 3 students from Cooper (one of the Cooper students also went to Langley and then transferred to TJHSST sophomore year), 2 students from Carson, and 1 student from Longfellow. 1 student was from Stone Hill Middle School in Ashburn (this school has a 62% Asian population).

0 students from any FCPS non-wealthy feeder middle schools.

So, they got in despite and not due to the new process. The one who entered as a froshmore likely was on paper a no-brainer admit who got screwed over by the new admissions process.

I guess one could argue that the new process helped them by cutting down the competition at TJ and somewhat watering down the classes, which in turn let them focus more on their research projects than on their classwork.

If I am reading the PPP post correctly, two of them were froshmores. One from McLean and one from Langley.

The reduced academic stress is real. I would even go so far as to suggest that relaxing grading at TJ has improved extracurricular activity participation.

I could also argue that if they kept the TJ admissions policy as truly race-neutral and merit-based as the original one, there could have been 15 regeneron winners.

Sure, I guess, if they also figured out how to reduce the high workloads so that kids could spend more time on things like regeneron projects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes… if you remove being an excellent test taker from the admissions criteria, you’ll have a class of kids who aren’t necessarily that great at taking standardized tests.

Thankfully, being a good test taker has no practical application other than school admissions processes. So who cares?

I’m more interested in the increase in Regeneron finalists.

For the poster more interested in the Regeneron finalists….7 of the students went to “wealthy feeder middle schools”. 1 from McLean (I’m not sure if the student went to Cooper or Longfellow), 3 students from Cooper (one of the Cooper students also went to Langley and then transferred to TJHSST sophomore year), 2 students from Carson, and 1 student from Longfellow. 1 student was from Stone Hill Middle School in Ashburn (this school has a 62% Asian population).

0 students from any FCPS non-wealthy feeder middle schools.

So, they got in despite and not due to the new process. The one who entered as a froshmore likely was on paper a no-brainer admit who got screwed over by the new admissions process.

I guess one could argue that the new process helped them by cutting down the competition at TJ and somewhat watering down the classes, which in turn let them focus more on their research projects than on their classwork.

If I am reading the PPP post correctly, two of them were froshmores. One from McLean and one from Langley.

The reduced academic stress is real. I would even go so far as to suggest that relaxing grading at TJ has improved extracurricular activity participation.

I could also argue that if they kept the TJ admissions policy as truly race-neutral and merit-based as the original one, there could have been 15 Regeneron winners.

Actually, from TJ 2 years ago was 4 students, then last year 4 students then now 8 students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Kids should be evaluated holistically and much more comprehensively than the current process allows, but the evaluation absolutely should be relative to the offerings of the kid's zoned school and their abilities relative to the other kids at their school. Picking the top 1% or 1.5% at each school is appropriate, as long as the process is comprehensive enough to get the correct top kids.”

+1
Absolutely. The by MS process needs adjusted so it can find the best kids at that specific school. Right now that is not necessarily the case - fix that and that corrects most of the issue with the new approach.

I’m as pro-reform as you can get and I agree with the above as well. It’s the one concern that I have with the new process, that it’s not identifying the right kids from the non-feeder schools. Deeper analysis is needed that is not available to us, but it does need to be done.

Agree. Adding a look at SOLs seems like a fair way of evaluating applicants.

Yes. That would have helped the handful of TJ students who failed SOL exams post-freshman and sophomore admissions changes. SOLs test minimum content competency. It is likely that their prior SOL scores would have signaled that they had not built a solid base that would allow them to thrive at TJ. It is hurting students to admit them to a competitive program without adequate preparation.

How? They would just have failed back at their base schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not all about the "cohort". Keep in mind that higher-FARMS schools don't offer anywhere near the number of higher-level courses that lower-FARMS schools offer.

Let's take 2 kids, one zoned for Annandale/FCHS/Justice, the other zoned for Oakton/Langley/McLean. Both equally bright, motivated, not genius level, but smart and STEM-enthusiastic. Both accelerated enough in ES/MS to be taking Alg II H in 8th grade.

Student A (A/F/J) will likely exceed their base school's math course offerings by 10th grade, maybe 11th. If they want to take Multi-Var or AP Statistics, it'll have to be through online / independent study, or trying to cross enroll for one period at a nearby school (a logistical nightmare to deal with different bell schedule, even if the kid has a way to commute on their own). They may or may not have a class available for AP Phys C. They may or may not have an AP class for their foreign language, or even a 4th year language.

Student B (O/L/M) will have all of those courses at their base school, and then some.

So, which student does the county's public school system serve better with an assignment to TJ? The one who literally cannot take 4 years of math at their base school? Or the one who just wants a special class, even though they could get the same at their base school?

The problem with your view is that TJ admissions is not considering math level or base school offerings in light of math level for any kids at any schools. Most kids even at middling SES schools only have one year of post AP calc available. So, the Algebra II in 8th kid will run out of math almost any school that is not McLean, Langley, Oakton, or maybe Chantilly. The pre-calc in 8th kids will run out of math classes even at the high SES schools. None of that is being considered for TJ admissions. Heck, it's entirely possible that the kid at a high FARMS school taking Algebra II in 8th will be passed over for admissions in favor of kids taking Algebra I who write prettier essays.

I would agree with you that in principle, any kid who will run out of math classes at their local school has needs vastly different from their base school cohort and are textbook cases of kids who belong at a Governor's school for STEM.

If the reason they “run out” of math to take is because their parents enrolled them in outside math courses to get them hyper accelerated then I disagree this is a textbook case of a kid who needs this type of school. Now if it’s a kid who just goes to AAP school, gets it in a snap and sits around bored in math all the time so the ES kicks them up to algebra in 6th, then yes THAT is the type of kid the a governor’s STEM school was created for. The issue is you had many families taking the former path to intentionally cultivate kids on an accelerated path vs simply trying to find the right school match for their kids.

In FCPS, it's not possible to be hyper accelerated without having FCPS bump your kid up in early elementary or without transferring in from elsewhere and having FCPS honor the math placement. The only way parents can choose to accelerate a kid is through summer Geometry, which results in Algebra II in 8th. For the most part, the summer Algebra II kids are zoned to the high SES high schools and will have sufficient math classes at the base school. They would not be math outliers at their base schools who would run out of math if not for TJ.

If a kid somehow is hyper-accelerated into pre-calc or calc in 8th, but they have straight As in all of the previous honors math classes, then I would argue that the kid absolutely deserved to be hyperaccelerated. TJ would be the best place for a kid who is already mastering pre-calc or calc at age 13.

Our low-SES high school has around 2-5 juniors in Calc BC each year. Not enough to form a post-calc class for them as seniors, so that's it for them. I know one or two who could have taken Calc BC as sophomores, but intentionally slowed down because they'd be completely on their own. Those kids really would have benefited from more advanced options.

And to be fair, FCPS does try to accommodate them as seniors, through online DE enrollment or cross-registering for one class at a nearby school. But it's really tough to take a post-calculus class that way, they miss a lot.

Not saying all of those kids from every low-SES high school should automatically be in at TJ - but if a kid is otherwise well qualified and motivated, that's the kid who would really benefit from the program over their base school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Kids should be evaluated holistically and much more comprehensively than the current process allows, but the evaluation absolutely should be relative to the offerings of the kid's zoned school and their abilities relative to the other kids at their school. Picking the top 1% or 1.5% at each school is appropriate, as long as the process is comprehensive enough to get the correct top kids.”

+1
Absolutely. The by MS process needs adjusted so it can find the best kids at that specific school. Right now that is not necessarily the case - fix that and that corrects most of the issue with the new approach.

I’m as pro-reform as you can get and I agree with the above as well. It’s the one concern that I have with the new process, that it’s not identifying the right kids from the non-feeder schools. Deeper analysis is needed that is not available to us, but it does need to be done.

Agree. Adding a look at SOLs seems like a fair way of evaluating applicants.

Yes. That would have helped the handful of TJ students who failed SOL exams post-freshman and sophomore admissions changes. SOLs test minimum content competency. It is likely that their prior SOL scores would have signaled that they had not built a solid base that would allow them to thrive at TJ. It is hurting students to admit them to a competitive program without adequate preparation.

How? They would just have failed back at their base schools.

A student who fails an SOL will struggle academically at TJ given the academic rigor. The same student might well be getting As or Bs at their base school; they had a 3.5 GPA or better in middle school despite likely under-performing on their SOLs there too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Kids should be evaluated holistically and much more comprehensively than the current process allows, but the evaluation absolutely should be relative to the offerings of the kid's zoned school and their abilities relative to the other kids at their school. Picking the top 1% or 1.5% at each school is appropriate, as long as the process is comprehensive enough to get the correct top kids.”

+1
Absolutely. The by MS process needs adjusted so it can find the best kids at that specific school. Right now that is not necessarily the case - fix that and that corrects most of the issue with the new approach.

I’m as pro-reform as you can get and I agree with the above as well. It’s the one concern that I have with the new process, that it’s not identifying the right kids from the non-feeder schools. Deeper analysis is needed that is not available to us, but it does need to be done.

Agree. Adding a look at SOLs seems like a fair way of evaluating applicants.

They will never do that.
In 2023-2024, the number of URM getting advanced pass in geometry SOL is 904.
46 of them were low income
472 of them were asian (31 of them were low income)
22 were black (3 of them were low income)
37 were hispanic (5 of them were low income)
402 were white (7 of them were low income)

So using SOL advance pass as a filter would mostly just increase the number of white students who are not low income.

How about algebra?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not all about the "cohort". Keep in mind that higher-FARMS schools don't offer anywhere near the number of higher-level courses that lower-FARMS schools offer.

Let's take 2 kids, one zoned for Annandale/FCHS/Justice, the other zoned for Oakton/Langley/McLean. Both equally bright, motivated, not genius level, but smart and STEM-enthusiastic. Both accelerated enough in ES/MS to be taking Alg II H in 8th grade.

Student A (A/F/J) will likely exceed their base school's math course offerings by 10th grade, maybe 11th. If they want to take Multi-Var or AP Statistics, it'll have to be through online / independent study, or trying to cross enroll for one period at a nearby school (a logistical nightmare to deal with different bell schedule, even if the kid has a way to commute on their own). They may or may not have a class available for AP Phys C. They may or may not have an AP class for their foreign language, or even a 4th year language.

Student B (O/L/M) will have all of those courses at their base school, and then some.

So, which student does the county's public school system serve better with an assignment to TJ? The one who literally cannot take 4 years of math at their base school? Or the one who just wants a special class, even though they could get the same at their base school?

The problem with your view is that TJ admissions is not considering math level or base school offerings in light of math level for any kids at any schools. Most kids even at middling SES schools only have one year of post AP calc available. So, the Algebra II in 8th kid will run out of math almost any school that is not McLean, Langley, Oakton, or maybe Chantilly. The pre-calc in 8th kids will run out of math classes even at the high SES schools. None of that is being considered for TJ admissions. Heck, it's entirely possible that the kid at a high FARMS school taking Algebra II in 8th will be passed over for admissions in favor of kids taking Algebra I who write prettier essays.

I would agree with you that in principle, any kid who will run out of math classes at their local school has needs vastly different from their base school cohort and are textbook cases of kids who belong at a Governor's school for STEM.

If the reason they “run out” of math to take is because their parents enrolled them in outside math courses to get them hyper accelerated then I disagree this is a textbook case of a kid who needs this type of school. Now if it’s a kid who just goes to AAP school, gets it in a snap and sits around bored in math all the time so the ES kicks them up to algebra in 6th, then yes THAT is the type of kid the a governor’s STEM school was created for. The issue is you had many families taking the former path to intentionally cultivate kids on an accelerated path vs simply trying to find the right school match for their kids.

In FCPS, it's not possible to be hyper accelerated without having FCPS bump your kid up in early elementary or without transferring in from elsewhere and having FCPS honor the math placement. The only way parents can choose to accelerate a kid is through summer Geometry, which results in Algebra II in 8th. For the most part, the summer Algebra II kids are zoned to the high SES high schools and will have sufficient math classes at the base school. They would not be math outliers at their base schools who would run out of math if not for TJ.

If a kid somehow is hyper-accelerated into pre-calc or calc in 8th, but they have straight As in all of the previous honors math classes, then I would argue that the kid absolutely deserved to be hyperaccelerated. TJ would be the best place for a kid who is already mastering pre-calc or calc at age 13.

Our low-SES high school has around 2-5 juniors in Calc BC each year. Not enough to form a post-calc class for them as seniors, so that's it for them. I know one or two who could have taken Calc BC as sophomores, but intentionally slowed down because they'd be completely on their own. Those kids really would have benefited from more advanced options.

And to be fair, FCPS does try to accommodate them as seniors, through online DE enrollment or cross-registering for one class at a nearby school. But it's really tough to take a post-calculus class that way, they miss a lot.

Not saying all of those kids from every low-SES high school should automatically be in at TJ - but if a kid is otherwise well qualified and motivated, that's the kid who would really benefit from the program over their base school.

If THAT was how they picked the 1.5% of kids from those schools, I think there would be less of an issue.
But they are picking the wrong kids and they end up going back to their base schools with a year of crappy grades under their belt.
Even if the advanced kids from low SES schools don't become A students at TJ, they will still get a lot out of being pushed and challenged even if they graduate with a low GPA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Kids should be evaluated holistically and much more comprehensively than the current process allows, but the evaluation absolutely should be relative to the offerings of the kid's zoned school and their abilities relative to the other kids at their school. Picking the top 1% or 1.5% at each school is appropriate, as long as the process is comprehensive enough to get the correct top kids.”

+1
Absolutely. The by MS process needs adjusted so it can find the best kids at that specific school. Right now that is not necessarily the case - fix that and that corrects most of the issue with the new approach.

I’m as pro-reform as you can get and I agree with the above as well. It’s the one concern that I have with the new process, that it’s not identifying the right kids from the non-feeder schools. Deeper analysis is needed that is not available to us, but it does need to be done.

Agree. Adding a look at SOLs seems like a fair way of evaluating applicants.

Yes. That would have helped the handful of TJ students who failed SOL exams post-freshman and sophomore admissions changes. SOLs test minimum content competency. It is likely that their prior SOL scores would have signaled that they had not built a solid base that would allow them to thrive at TJ. It is hurting students to admit them to a competitive program without adequate preparation.

How? They would just have failed back at their base schools.

A student who fails an SOL will struggle academically at TJ given the academic rigor. The same student might well be getting As or Bs at their base school; they had a 3.5 GPA or better in middle school despite likely under-performing on their SOLs there too.

Hoestly, if we're going to use SOL, then we really should be looking at the advanced SOL students.