I don’t get it!

[Anonymous]

*They

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a foreigner and newcomer to DC - we moved here for my husband’s work ~ 2 years ago from Western Europe. We have two boys and the oldest just started high school here, so I’ve been trying to learn about US college admissions in case my kids express interest in attending school here.

This is what I have trouble understanding:
- if now desirable employers recruit from a large range of schools rather than only from a few elite schools
- if you can have access to quality peers beyond the T20 schools since there are way more qualified kids than spots at these schools
- if you can get a quality education at pretty much any top 100 school, and
- if life outcomes are truly dependent on the kid rather than the school

Then why oh why are kids (and parents) putting themselves through so much stress and anxiety to get into HYPSM? This is what I don’t get.

Is it purely because Harvard and Yale are more prestigious than Penn State and Miami? So it’s just about prestige and bragging rights?

It depends on what you mean by desirable

Deloitte recruits widely. McKinsey recruits from a select group.

Capital One recruits widely. Morgan Stanley recruits from a select group.

If you want your kid to be solidly employed at a first job after graduation that is fine go anywhere for college. If your kid wants the jobs the top of the pecking order though they need to go to a target school. Aka an elite one.

A relative interned at Capital One last summer in a finance group…said 70% were Ivy League kids.

Relative was part of the 30% that happened to have a frat brother alum working at Capital One that hooked him up.

Take away was not “I didn’t need an Ivy”, but rather how much easier it was for Ivy kids compared to him and the other 30%.

I'm the first PP with a kid at UMD, and yes, this is true. It's just easier, opens the door faster. It doesn't mean that a smart kid from UMD won't there; it will just take them longer. Like I said, my kid is super smart. They can easily hold their own academically compared to students from MIT. DC actually got an interview at MIT; that's how high their stats were. Non minority. Unfortunately, DC decided to major in CS, and that's a tough T10 nut to crack.

Is MIT different than other elite schools, in that most elite schools give interviews to anyone who applies?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think perceived prestige is the main reason parents and kids are so crazy to get their kids into certain schools. I do think these schools offer a leg up for some kids, but it is certainly no success path for everyone.

My kid was also an academic high flyer / magnet student. Perfect stats, internships, 4 year varsity athlete, etc. Ivy all waitlist and reject. At UMD CS and doing great. Applying the same hustle and smarts he did in HS. Being at a bigger school there are maybe even more opportunities. Doing paid research and had internships after both freshman and sophomore years. Honestly don't think he'd be doing better if he was at an Ivy.

Are you the same poster who keeps talking about your son at UMD CS?

No. I have not posted in a while. Just trying to point out what OP was saying. Where these kids go to school not everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a foreigner and newcomer to DC - we moved here for my husband’s work ~ 2 years ago from Western Europe. We have two boys and the oldest just started high school here, so I’ve been trying to learn about US college admissions in case my kids express interest in attending school here.

This is what I have trouble understanding:
- if now desirable employers recruit from a large range of schools rather than only from a few elite schools
- if you can have access to quality peers beyond the T20 schools since there are way more qualified kids than spots at these schools
- if you can get a quality education at pretty much any top 100 school, and
- if life outcomes are truly dependent on the kid rather than the school

Then why oh why are kids (and parents) putting themselves through so much stress and anxiety to get into HYPSM? This is what I don’t get.

Is it purely because Harvard and Yale are more prestigious than Penn State and Miami? So it’s just about prestige and bragging rights?

It depends on what you mean by desirable

Deloitte recruits widely. McKinsey recruits from a select group.

Capital One recruits widely. Morgan Stanley recruits from a select group.

If you want your kid to be solidly employed at a first job after graduation that is fine go anywhere for college. If your kid wants the jobs the top of the pecking order though they need to go to a target school. Aka an elite one.

A relative interned at Capital One last summer in a finance group…said 70% were Ivy League kids.

Relative was part of the 30% that happened to have a frat brother alum working at Capital One that hooked him up.

Take away was not “I didn’t need an Ivy”, but rather how much easier it was for Ivy kids compared to him and the other 30%.

I'm the first PP with a kid at UMD, and yes, this is true. It's just easier, opens the door faster. It doesn't mean that a smart kid from UMD won't there; it will just take them longer. Like I said, my kid is super smart. They can easily hold their own academically compared to students from MIT. DC actually got an interview at MIT; that's how high their stats were. Non minority. Unfortunately, DC decided to major in CS, and that's a tough T10 nut to crack.

Is MIT different than other elite schools, in that most elite schools give interviews to anyone who applies?

"MIT interviews are conducted by members of the MIT Educational Council, a network of alumni volunteers. While the goal is to offer interviews to all applicants, the availability of an interview depends on the geographic location and the number of alumni interviewers in the area. In some regions, applicants might not receive an interview due to logistical constraints."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP there's a lot of talk about prestige and bragging rights but it goes beyond that. You're aware of Oxford, Cambridge, The Sorbonne, university of Bologna etc?

What do you think comes of attending those? You are surrounded by the "best minds" and you make connections with those people, you form a creative or business network that you carry with you out into the world.

I have a friend who attended Harvard and never mentions it, avoids it if possible. Yet her network of friends and colleagues who she met there still exist and they are all doing extraordinarily well and can occasionally help each other out.

Is this unique to Harvard though? You get that at a lot of schools. I mean Penn State is supposed to have an amazing alumni network.

Sure. My husband went to Penn State and there's an excellent alumni network. I can assure you it's a quite different network than what you would get with an Ivy though.

How is the Ivy network different from the one you’d get at Penn State? No, seriously, I am asking because I feel these Ivy alumni networks are a myth. It’s not like you go to Harvard and can reach out to Bill Gates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think perceived prestige is the main reason parents and kids are so crazy to get their kids into certain schools. I do think these schools offer a leg up for some kids, but it is certainly no success path for everyone.

My kid was also an academic high flyer / magnet student. Perfect stats, internships, 4 year varsity athlete, etc. Ivy all waitlist and reject. At UMD CS and doing great. Applying the same hustle and smarts he did in HS. Being at a bigger school there are maybe even more opportunities. Doing paid research and had internships after both freshman and sophomore years. Honestly don't think he'd be doing better if he was at an Ivy.

I don’t get how you can criticize “perceived prestige” when it appears the only reason your kid is at UMD was because he was rejected at the Ivy schools.

Aren't you lovely

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP there's a lot of talk about prestige and bragging rights but it goes beyond that. You're aware of Oxford, Cambridge, The Sorbonne, university of Bologna etc?

What do you think comes of attending those? You are surrounded by the "best minds" and you make connections with those people, you form a creative or business network that you carry with you out into the world.

I have a friend who attended Harvard and never mentions it, avoids it if possible. Yet her network of friends and colleagues who she met there still exist and they are all doing extraordinarily well and can occasionally help each other out.

Is this unique to Harvard though? You get that at a lot of schools. I mean Penn State is supposed to have an amazing alumni network.

Sure. My husband went to Penn State and there's an excellent alumni network. I can assure you it's a quite different network than what you would get with an Ivy though.

How is the Ivy network different from the one you’d get at Penn State? No, seriously, I am asking because I feel these Ivy alumni networks are a myth. It’s not like you go to Harvard and can reach out to Bill Gates.

It matters a ton for certain industries like Quant finance and software engineering in finance for you to get a job. Also an Ivy advisor gets you further for grad school admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, that’s about it.

And, unfortunately, it’s starting when kids are at a young age. Exhibit A is the Advanced Academic Program (AAP) forum. It’s a program in Fairfax County Public Schools. There has to be separate forum there because there are so many parents posting scores of their 7-8 year olds and attempting to get into a program. There are perfectly fine classes in their neighborhood schools that are meeting their kid’s needs, but they’re jockeying for this program because they think it gives them a leg up. In the end, it doesn’t really matter. They all end up at the same high school with the same access to honors, IB and AP classes.

The parents are not okay.

+100
AAP is everything that's wrong with this area. Labeling kids this or that at the end of 2nd grade is absolutely absurd.

AAP is the only thing that's right. It's a preview of what is to come in college admissions. The top 10% go this way, the bottom 90% go the other.

"The top 10%" is laughable. No one knows who the top kids will be until high school. AAP is just a bunch of average/above average kids who are often eclipsed by their "normal" peers in high school - not to mention college. Offer advanced classes, sure. But to *everyone*.

For my DC, the best school I know any of their non-AAP in elementary and middle friends got into is GW. Best for AAP was Harvard.

Ooh, here's my anecdote! The only kid at our high school who got into Yale was never in AAP during elementary/middle school. And yet, he was brilliant.

[Anonymous]

This fixation on top-ranked prestige colleges is mostly just a Northeast corridor thing. And you may find some of it on the West Coast and in certain affluent pockets in other parts of the country. 90% of the people in this country (maybe more?) attend their state flagship or regional publics. And many successful immigrants have college degrees from their countries-of-origin.

[Anonymous]

The prestige of HYPMS is huge in Asia. Harvard most of all. Sometimes I think it's the only school some have heard of.

[Anonymous]

Those who would merely settle for the peer-group at Yale will never understand, nor appreciate, the superiority of the peer group at Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The prestige of HYPMS is huge in Asia. Harvard most of all. Sometimes I think it's the only school some have heard of.

But we are not in Asia!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those who would merely settle for the peer-group at Yale will never understand, nor appreciate, the superiority of the peer group at Harvard.

Wow, ok, so going to Yale is “merely settling”?!?! LOL

[Anonymous]

You can drop down far below the top 100 schools & still get a good education. It just depends on how hard the student wants to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This fixation on top-ranked prestige colleges is mostly just a Northeast corridor thing. And you may find some of it on the West Coast and in certain affluent pockets in other parts of the country. 90% of the people in this country (maybe more?) attend their state flagship or regional publics. And many successful immigrants have college degrees from their countries-of-origin.

^This person understands.