I don’t get it!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a foreigner and newcomer to DC - we moved here for my husband’s work ~ 2 years ago from Western Europe. We have two boys and the oldest just started high school here, so I’ve been trying to learn about US college admissions in case my kids express interest in attending school here.

This is what I have trouble understanding:
- if now desirable employers recruit from a large range of schools rather than only from a few elite schools
- if you can have access to quality peers beyond the T20 schools since there are way more qualified kids than spots at these schools
- if you can get a quality education at pretty much any top 100 school, and
- if life outcomes are truly dependent on the kid rather than the school

Then why oh why are kids (and parents) putting themselves through so much stress and anxiety to get into HYPSM? This is what I don’t get.

Is it purely because Harvard and Yale are more prestigious than Penn State and Miami? So it’s just about prestige and bragging rights?

-The desirable employers do not recruit equally from second tier schools as they do from top tier schools, they just don't.
-The difference in peer group starts to drop off around T15 then again at around T35 and once you are outside the top 75 or so, the population of mediocre students is large enough that the peer group effect is fairly diluted.
-The quality of education is largely dependent on your peer group. You are going much faster and much deeper when you have a better peer group.
-Life outcomes are not indifferent to college pedigree. A Harvard grad has easier access to some opportunities than a Northeastern grad.

The difference between Emory and Penn State may not be life altering but the difference between HYPSM (particularly HMS) and Penn State is.
Your peer group in college is different, the lifetime reputational benefits are different, your opportunities straight out of college are different.

The bolded - I ask how?! I work in finance and every cohort has kids from HYPSM AND state schools, such as Penn State, etc. They ALL ended up in the SAME place! HYPSM made NO difference!

They don't ALL ended up in the SAME place!
There I FIFY

Do you honestly expect people to believe that all penn state grads end up at the same place as harvard grads?

HYPSM account for maybe 0.1% of college graduates. They are very likely over-represented in hiring at top employers (along with whatever local favorites your firm has).

Penn state grads can do as well as a harvard grad but the road is not as easy. They can either try to make a 5% cut at the college admissions stage or make a 10% cut after graduating penn state which has a 50% acceptance rate to get the same job as the average T10 grad. But at some point you have to compete.

Np. Exactly.
What % of the graduating class at Harvard gets a consulting/IB/PE/HF/FANG/PWM etc job at graduation? Now do the same (% of graduating class) for Penn State.

Percent of the class is silly in this context. What percent are you actually competing against? The vast majority of people you want to include in your analysis have no i̶n̶t̶e̶r̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶ chance at those positions. You are going to have far more vicious competition from your hooked classmates at Harvard, who were basically guaranteed that job by virtue of birth (which is also why they got into Harvard).

FIFY

So you believe that all college students are aiming for a consulting/IB/PE/HF/FANG/PWM etc job and if they don't get one it's because they didn't have a chance? Wow. You are so narrow and shallow. Truth: the nursing majors, future doctors and teachers, theater and film kids, kids vested in research sciences, and so on, and so on, want zero to do with your consulting jobs.

Those are the people that can and should go to lower ranked schools. Pedigree doesn’t matter- some of those job are vocational.

Penn has a nursing school. So does Georgetown. But I guess that’s somehow not allowed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a foreigner and newcomer to DC - we moved here for my husband’s work ~ 2 years ago from Western Europe. We have two boys and the oldest just started high school here, so I’ve been trying to learn about US college admissions in case my kids express interest in attending school here.

This is what I have trouble understanding:
- if now desirable employers recruit from a large range of schools rather than only from a few elite schools
- if you can have access to quality peers beyond the T20 schools since there are way more qualified kids than spots at these schools
- if you can get a quality education at pretty much any top 100 school, and
- if life outcomes are truly dependent on the kid rather than the school

Then why oh why are kids (and parents) putting themselves through so much stress and anxiety to get into HYPSM? This is what I don’t get.

Is it purely because Harvard and Yale are more prestigious than Penn State and Miami? So it’s just about prestige and bragging rights?

-The desirable employers do not recruit equally from second tier schools as they do from top tier schools, they just don't.
-The difference in peer group starts to drop off around T15 then again at around T35 and once you are outside the top 75 or so, the population of mediocre students is large enough that the peer group effect is fairly diluted.
-The quality of education is largely dependent on your peer group. You are going much faster and much deeper when you have a better peer group.
-Life outcomes are not indifferent to college pedigree. A Harvard grad has easier access to some opportunities than a Northeastern grad.

The difference between Emory and Penn State may not be life altering but the difference between HYPSM (particularly HMS) and Penn State is.
Your peer group in college is different, the lifetime reputational benefits are different, your opportunities straight out of college are different.

The bolded - I ask how?! I work in finance and every cohort has kids from HYPSM AND state schools, such as Penn State, etc. They ALL ended up in the SAME place! HYPSM made NO difference!

They don't ALL ended up in the SAME place!
There I FIFY

Do you honestly expect people to believe that all penn state grads end up at the same place as harvard grads?

HYPSM account for maybe 0.1% of college graduates. They are very likely over-represented in hiring at top employers (along with whatever local favorites your firm has).

Penn state grads can do as well as a harvard grad but the road is not as easy. They can either try to make a 5% cut at the college admissions stage or make a 10% cut after graduating penn state which has a 50% acceptance rate to get the same job as the average T10 grad. But at some point you have to compete.

Np. Exactly.
What % of the graduating class at Harvard gets a consulting/IB/PE/HF/FANG/PWM etc job at graduation? Now do the same (% of graduating class) for Penn State.

Percent of the class is silly in this context. What percent are you actually competing against? The vast majority of people you want to include in your analysis have no i̶n̶t̶e̶r̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶ chance at those positions. You are going to have far more vicious competition from your hooked classmates at Harvard, who were basically guaranteed that job by virtue of birth (which is also why they got into Harvard).

FIFY

So you believe that all college students are aiming for a consulting/IB/PE/HF/FANG/PWM etc job and if they don't get one it's because they didn't have a chance? Wow. You are so narrow and shallow. Truth: the nursing majors, future doctors and teachers, theater and film kids, kids vested in research sciences, and so on, and so on, want zero to do with your consulting jobs.

But these are not the cast majority of people. I include all non-STEM in the analysis.

Humanities majors need the pedigree though. Otherwise the degree is worthless.

I love clueless comments like this. My kids have humanities degrees from no-name colleges and are doing great in their respective careers. Didn't hold them back at all. But do continue to tell yourself this in order to justify spending outrageous sums of money on your kids' degrees.
DP