When Coaches Lie

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry the coach lied. Many coaches are really terrible at this age - any coach who thinks winning is important at age 11 (select team or not) has a screw loose and is getting some sort of weird validation from being a winning coach instead of developing athletes and setting a good example for kids.

My only advice is to find a more casual, local-only travel team that’s not trying to be “competitive” (I take it that’s what you were trying to do, but don’t give up because of one crappy coach!). We have always sought out teams like this for our son, and I think it has only helped his development as a player, teammate, and quite frankly as a person. He is in high school now and nobody knows or cares who was on the “elite” team three or four years ago.

Very true. Any parent of a high school baseball player could tell some stories and give examples….performance at the younger ages has little correlation to performance later on at the high school level +. Many of the youth “stars” never even make the HS baseball team, and many youth “weak players” do. I’ve seen this over and over again. Lots of surprises.

It's called puberty.

You don't know how a kid will develop until they actually do.

Although...it is exceedingly rare that a professional athlete didn't dominate at every age.

You will hear of them form time-to-time...a player like Jackson Merrill who barely made the JV team as a HS freshmen, but then went on to be a first MLB pick after his senior year in HS.

95% are players like Messi (trained at FC Barcelona starting at 5), or Freddie Freeman or Bryce Harper or again nearly all pro athletes that were dominant players at 5, 10, 15, etc.

The actual point is the average Little League superstar is not going to grow up to be another Bryce Harper or Freddie Freeman. A lot of these kids won’t even be on their HS teams, meanwhile coaches are ruining the game for all of the other average kids who just want to play.

Harper and Freeman would have been just fine regardless of whether or not their less talented teammates actually got to play regularly when they were kids.

I don’t what to say. Our HS team has two LLs that feed into it and the starting 8 were all on their 12u LL All Star teams from both of those leagues…with the five starting pitchers also 12u All stars in LL.

You are missing the point. It’s also, quite frankly, incredibly weird that you know the Little League history of all the kids in your High School. (I assume there are NO former Little League all-stars who DIDN’T make the team, right?) Some of you REALLY need to get a life.

My kid is on the team...we have known all these kids for like 10+ years either as teammates or playing against each other. Not weird at all.

So what happened to the other Little League all stars who are not members of the starting 8? By my math there are at least 8 former all stars who aren’t starting if your school pulls from two LLs. Have they already been signed by MLB?

How did these all stars manage to continue to be good even if they played on teams that weren’t packed with all stars during the regular season? Since it’s LL I’ll bet some of those scrubs even got a chance to bat or play in the infield occasionally!

And it is weird - I couldn’t tell you who my kid played against when he was 12 unless we independently knew the kid OR the kid was like a once in a generation, standout talent. But I suppose there are a LOT of busybody parents in youth sports.

Seriously, though. You are still missing the point.

26 kids played on the two all star teams. 7 went private and play on their varsity teams…13 went public and are starters (8 position players and 5 pitchers)…6 play other sports.

You obviously never coached or were particularly involved with your kid’s baseball. These kids played together for years and then many played on same travel teams for 13u and 14u.

The idea that the strongest kids at 12 aren’t strong later circulates like a bad penny.

The top local HS basektball teams (PVI, Gonzaga, Sidwell, Bullis…Teams that are top 20 in the country) all start looking at the top 12 year olds to try to recruit them to their high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry the coach lied. Many coaches are really terrible at this age - any coach who thinks winning is important at age 11 (select team or not) has a screw loose and is getting some sort of weird validation from being a winning coach instead of developing athletes and setting a good example for kids.

My only advice is to find a more casual, local-only travel team that’s not trying to be “competitive” (I take it that’s what you were trying to do, but don’t give up because of one crappy coach!). We have always sought out teams like this for our son, and I think it has only helped his development as a player, teammate, and quite frankly as a person. He is in high school now and nobody knows or cares who was on the “elite” team three or four years ago.

Very true. Any parent of a high school baseball player could tell some stories and give examples….performance at the younger ages has little correlation to performance later on at the high school level +. Many of the youth “stars” never even make the HS baseball team, and many youth “weak players” do. I’ve seen this over and over again. Lots of surprises.

It's called puberty.

You don't know how a kid will develop until they actually do.

Although...it is exceedingly rare that a professional athlete didn't dominate at every age.

You will hear of them form time-to-time...a player like Jackson Merrill who barely made the JV team as a HS freshmen, but then went on to be a first MLB pick after his senior year in HS.

95% are players like Messi (trained at FC Barcelona starting at 5), or Freddie Freeman or Bryce Harper or again nearly all pro athletes that were dominant players at 5, 10, 15, etc.

The actual point is the average Little League superstar is not going to grow up to be another Bryce Harper or Freddie Freeman. A lot of these kids won’t even be on their HS teams, meanwhile coaches are ruining the game for all of the other average kids who just want to play.

Harper and Freeman would have been just fine regardless of whether or not their less talented teammates actually got to play regularly when they were kids.

I don’t what to say. Our HS team has two LLs that feed into it and the starting 8 were all on their 12u LL All Star teams from both of those leagues…with the five starting pitchers also 12u All stars in LL.

You are missing the point. It’s also, quite frankly, incredibly weird that you know the Little League history of all the kids in your High School. (I assume there are NO former Little League all-stars who DIDN’T make the team, right?) Some of you REALLY need to get a life.

My kid is on the team...we have known all these kids for like 10+ years either as teammates or playing against each other. Not weird at all.

So what happened to the other Little League all stars who are not members of the starting 8? By my math there are at least 8 former all stars who aren’t starting if your school pulls from two LLs. Have they already been signed by MLB?

How did these all stars manage to continue to be good even if they played on teams that weren’t packed with all stars during the regular season? Since it’s LL I’ll bet some of those scrubs even got a chance to bat or play in the infield occasionally!

And it is weird - I couldn’t tell you who my kid played against when he was 12 unless we independently knew the kid OR the kid was like a once in a generation, standout talent. But I suppose there are a LOT of busybody parents in youth sports.

Seriously, though. You are still missing the point.

26 kids played on the two all star teams. 7 went private and play on their varsity teams…13 went public and are starters (8 position players and 5 pitchers)…6 play other sports.

You obviously never coached or were particularly involved with your kid’s baseball. These kids played together for years and then many played on same travel teams for 13u and 14u.

The idea that the strongest kids at 12 aren’t strong later circulates like a bad penny.

The top local HS basektball teams (PVI, Gonzaga, Sidwell, Bullis…Teams that are top 20 in the country) all start looking at the top 12 year olds to try to recruit them to their high school.

I’m sorry that I was not treating your scouting report on 12 year olds with the proper respect. Clearly I am a bad, uninvolved parent. And my idea that a kid who doesn’t hit the puberty lottery may already be pretty close to his maximum athletic potential in middle school is obviously misguided pseudoscientific coping.

Is that about right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry the coach lied. Many coaches are really terrible at this age - any coach who thinks winning is important at age 11 (select team or not) has a screw loose and is getting some sort of weird validation from being a winning coach instead of developing athletes and setting a good example for kids.

My only advice is to find a more casual, local-only travel team that’s not trying to be “competitive” (I take it that’s what you were trying to do, but don’t give up because of one crappy coach!). We have always sought out teams like this for our son, and I think it has only helped his development as a player, teammate, and quite frankly as a person. He is in high school now and nobody knows or cares who was on the “elite” team three or four years ago.

Very true. Any parent of a high school baseball player could tell some stories and give examples….performance at the younger ages has little correlation to performance later on at the high school level +. Many of the youth “stars” never even make the HS baseball team, and many youth “weak players” do. I’ve seen this over and over again. Lots of surprises.

It's called puberty.

You don't know how a kid will develop until they actually do.

Although...it is exceedingly rare that a professional athlete didn't dominate at every age.

You will hear of them form time-to-time...a player like Jackson Merrill who barely made the JV team as a HS freshmen, but then went on to be a first MLB pick after his senior year in HS.

95% are players like Messi (trained at FC Barcelona starting at 5), or Freddie Freeman or Bryce Harper or again nearly all pro athletes that were dominant players at 5, 10, 15, etc.

The actual point is the average Little League superstar is not going to grow up to be another Bryce Harper or Freddie Freeman. A lot of these kids won’t even be on their HS teams, meanwhile coaches are ruining the game for all of the other average kids who just want to play.

Harper and Freeman would have been just fine regardless of whether or not their less talented teammates actually got to play regularly when they were kids.

I don’t what to say. Our HS team has two LLs that feed into it and the starting 8 were all on their 12u LL All Star teams from both of those leagues…with the five starting pitchers also 12u All stars in LL.

You are missing the point. It’s also, quite frankly, incredibly weird that you know the Little League history of all the kids in your High School. (I assume there are NO former Little League all-stars who DIDN’T make the team, right?) Some of you REALLY need to get a life.

My kid is on the team...we have known all these kids for like 10+ years either as teammates or playing against each other. Not weird at all.

So what happened to the other Little League all stars who are not members of the starting 8? By my math there are at least 8 former all stars who aren’t starting if your school pulls from two LLs. Have they already been signed by MLB?

How did these all stars manage to continue to be good even if they played on teams that weren’t packed with all stars during the regular season? Since it’s LL I’ll bet some of those scrubs even got a chance to bat or play in the infield occasionally!

And it is weird - I couldn’t tell you who my kid played against when he was 12 unless we independently knew the kid OR the kid was like a once in a generation, standout talent. But I suppose there are a LOT of busybody parents in youth sports.

Seriously, though. You are still missing the point.

26 kids played on the two all star teams. 7 went private and play on their varsity teams…13 went public and are starters (8 position players and 5 pitchers)…6 play other sports.

You obviously never coached or were particularly involved with your kid’s baseball. These kids played together for years and then many played on same travel teams for 13u and 14u.

The idea that the strongest kids at 12 aren’t strong later circulates like a bad penny.

The top local HS basektball teams (PVI, Gonzaga, Sidwell, Bullis…Teams that are top 20 in the country) all start looking at the top 12 year olds to try to recruit them to their high school.

I’m sorry that I was not treating your scouting report on 12 year olds with the proper respect. Clearly I am a bad, uninvolved parent. And my idea that a kid who doesn’t hit the puberty lottery may already be pretty close to his maximum athletic potential in middle school is obviously misguided pseudoscientific coping.

Is that about right?

Apology accepted. Glad you accept you have your head up your ass and you can now move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you are thinking about this backwards. I’m sure most (not all) professional athletes were also talented when they were kids. But the argument is that the vast, vast majority of “all-stars” or “elite” pre-pubescent children will NOT be professional athletes. The vast majority will not even play in college. Many won’t even play in high school. And many kids who were “average” will pass them by.

And a kid who is on the path to making MLB is not going to be hindered in the slightest by riding the bench every once in awhile so his fellow 10 year buddies can have a chance to play. Being a good teammate is (or should be) part of an athlete’s development as well.

+1
My kid played on a travel team for former MLB coaches (DS was middle school aged at the time). Two former MLB guys each with a son on the team. And guess what? Their own talented kids sat the bench as much as the rest. They’d have their gigantic, talented sons splitting time with my mediocre little 100lb son and other teammates/friends. Why? They knew it didn’t matter. It was YOUTH ball and until high school, it is about fun/reps/learning to be a good teammate. And youth ball success is totally irrelevant later on. They knew that. It is the “regular dad” types who rarely seem to understand this. And I appreciate those guys too- there would not be any youth baseball with them!- but they often have the wrong perspective.

There is very strong evidence to support this statement in this thread. But I do think you have a point that we should appreciate them, too. You’re absolutely correct in that they’re the ones doing most of the work to make youth baseball happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry the coach lied. Many coaches are really terrible at this age - any coach who thinks winning is important at age 11 (select team or not) has a screw loose and is getting some sort of weird validation from being a winning coach instead of developing athletes and setting a good example for kids.

My only advice is to find a more casual, local-only travel team that’s not trying to be “competitive” (I take it that’s what you were trying to do, but don’t give up because of one crappy coach!). We have always sought out teams like this for our son, and I think it has only helped his development as a player, teammate, and quite frankly as a person. He is in high school now and nobody knows or cares who was on the “elite” team three or four years ago.

Very true. Any parent of a high school baseball player could tell some stories and give examples….performance at the younger ages has little correlation to performance later on at the high school level +. Many of the youth “stars” never even make the HS baseball team, and many youth “weak players” do. I’ve seen this over and over again. Lots of surprises.

It's called puberty.

You don't know how a kid will develop until they actually do.

Although...it is exceedingly rare that a professional athlete didn't dominate at every age.

You will hear of them form time-to-time...a player like Jackson Merrill who barely made the JV team as a HS freshmen, but then went on to be a first MLB pick after his senior year in HS.

95% are players like Messi (trained at FC Barcelona starting at 5), or Freddie Freeman or Bryce Harper or again nearly all pro athletes that were dominant players at 5, 10, 15, etc.

The actual point is the average Little League superstar is not going to grow up to be another Bryce Harper or Freddie Freeman. A lot of these kids won’t even be on their HS teams, meanwhile coaches are ruining the game for all of the other average kids who just want to play.

Harper and Freeman would have been just fine regardless of whether or not their less talented teammates actually got to play regularly when they were kids.

I don’t what to say. Our HS team has two LLs that feed into it and the starting 8 were all on their 12u LL All Star teams from both of those leagues…with the five starting pitchers also 12u All stars in LL.

You are missing the point. It’s also, quite frankly, incredibly weird that you know the Little League history of all the kids in your High School. (I assume there are NO former Little League all-stars who DIDN’T make the team, right?) Some of you REALLY need to get a life.

My kid is on the team...we have known all these kids for like 10+ years either as teammates or playing against each other. Not weird at all.

So what happened to the other Little League all stars who are not members of the starting 8? By my math there are at least 8 former all stars who aren’t starting if your school pulls from two LLs. Have they already been signed by MLB?

How did these all stars manage to continue to be good even if they played on teams that weren’t packed with all stars during the regular season? Since it’s LL I’ll bet some of those scrubs even got a chance to bat or play in the infield occasionally!

And it is weird - I couldn’t tell you who my kid played against when he was 12 unless we independently knew the kid OR the kid was like a once in a generation, standout talent. But I suppose there are a LOT of busybody parents in youth sports.

Seriously, though. You are still missing the point.

26 kids played on the two all star teams. 7 went private and play on their varsity teams…13 went public and are starters (8 position players and 5 pitchers)…6 play other sports.

You obviously never coached or were particularly involved with your kid’s baseball. These kids played together for years and then many played on same travel teams for 13u and 14u.

The idea that the strongest kids at 12 aren’t strong later circulates like a bad penny.

The top local HS basektball teams (PVI, Gonzaga, Sidwell, Bullis…Teams that are top 20 in the country) all start looking at the top 12 year olds to try to recruit them to their high school.

I’m sorry that I was not treating your scouting report on 12 year olds with the proper respect. Clearly I am a bad, uninvolved parent. And my idea that a kid who doesn’t hit the puberty lottery may already be pretty close to his maximum athletic potential in middle school is obviously misguided pseudoscientific coping.

Is that about right?

Apology accepted. Glad you accept you have your head up your ass and you can now move on.

Do we have to appreciate guys like this, though?

[Anonymous]

You appreciate the willingness to volunteer and coach your kid. If they aren't great at the gig and your kid isn't getting what they need to develop, you quietly move on and find a better team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry the coach lied. Many coaches are really terrible at this age - any coach who thinks winning is important at age 11 (select team or not) has a screw loose and is getting some sort of weird validation from being a winning coach instead of developing athletes and setting a good example for kids.

My only advice is to find a more casual, local-only travel team that’s not trying to be “competitive” (I take it that’s what you were trying to do, but don’t give up because of one crappy coach!). We have always sought out teams like this for our son, and I think it has only helped his development as a player, teammate, and quite frankly as a person. He is in high school now and nobody knows or cares who was on the “elite” team three or four years ago.

Very true. Any parent of a high school baseball player could tell some stories and give examples….performance at the younger ages has little correlation to performance later on at the high school level +. Many of the youth “stars” never even make the HS baseball team, and many youth “weak players” do. I’ve seen this over and over again. Lots of surprises.

It's called puberty.

You don't know how a kid will develop until they actually do.

Although...it is exceedingly rare that a professional athlete didn't dominate at every age.

You will hear of them form time-to-time...a player like Jackson Merrill who barely made the JV team as a HS freshmen, but then went on to be a first MLB pick after his senior year in HS.

95% are players like Messi (trained at FC Barcelona starting at 5), or Freddie Freeman or Bryce Harper or again nearly all pro athletes that were dominant players at 5, 10, 15, etc.

The actual point is the average Little League superstar is not going to grow up to be another Bryce Harper or Freddie Freeman. A lot of these kids won’t even be on their HS teams, meanwhile coaches are ruining the game for all of the other average kids who just want to play.

Harper and Freeman would have been just fine regardless of whether or not their less talented teammates actually got to play regularly when they were kids.

I don’t what to say. Our HS team has two LLs that feed into it and the starting 8 were all on their 12u LL All Star teams from both of those leagues…with the five starting pitchers also 12u All stars in LL.

You are missing the point. It’s also, quite frankly, incredibly weird that you know the Little League history of all the kids in your High School. (I assume there are NO former Little League all-stars who DIDN’T make the team, right?) Some of you REALLY need to get a life.

My kid is on the team...we have known all these kids for like 10+ years either as teammates or playing against each other. Not weird at all.

So what happened to the other Little League all stars who are not members of the starting 8? By my math there are at least 8 former all stars who aren’t starting if your school pulls from two LLs. Have they already been signed by MLB?

How did these all stars manage to continue to be good even if they played on teams that weren’t packed with all stars during the regular season? Since it’s LL I’ll bet some of those scrubs even got a chance to bat or play in the infield occasionally!

And it is weird - I couldn’t tell you who my kid played against when he was 12 unless we independently knew the kid OR the kid was like a once in a generation, standout talent. But I suppose there are a LOT of busybody parents in youth sports.

Seriously, though. You are still missing the point.

26 kids played on the two all star teams. 7 went private and play on their varsity teams…13 went public and are starters (8 position players and 5 pitchers)…6 play other sports.

You obviously never coached or were particularly involved with your kid’s baseball. These kids played together for years and then many played on same travel teams for 13u and 14u.

The idea that the strongest kids at 12 aren’t strong later circulates like a bad penny.

The top local HS basektball teams (PVI, Gonzaga, Sidwell, Bullis…Teams that are top 20 in the country) all start looking at the top 12 year olds to try to recruit them to their high school.

I think your experience with your all star team is unusual especially since there are usually at least a few starting juniors. To have all starting position players from a single all star team is very unusual indeed.

I wouldn't look at schools like PVI as an example of what happens to talented youth. They are looking at the best kid in a hundred or the best kid in a thousand, those kids have crazy talent and are probably tracking to be very tall.

Most little leagues have no more than 8 teams and out of those 8 teams they are selecting 1 teams worth to be all stars. It's like 15% of players that end up on the all star team, in some years it's like 20 or 25%.
Probably only 3 or 4 of the all stars are stud players that you are building the rest of the team around.
And those 3 or 4 stud players are just as likely to go play football or basketball and drop baseball entirely. These kids are athletes that can probably play a lot of different sports in high school and baseball is not the sport fo choice for a lot of boys once they get to high school and sports like football become available.
Players 5 through 9 are solid players that can probably play high school ball if they keep at it but many of them will say goodbye to baseball after their all star season or they will move onto a different sport.
Players 10-13 are probably not much better than the next 10 or 20 players.