When Coaches Lie

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I coached softball. Here’s what I found and what I told parents:

This is travel ball. It is a select team. Yes, we are developmental, but playing time is neither even nor guaranteed.

In doubleheaders and pool play on Saturdays I bat the roster and rotate the defense evenly. Everyone gets an opportunity. That doesn’t mean your kid starts at their preferred position if there are other players better in that spot, but I will look for opportunities to put them there to give them a chance to prove themselves.

On elimination Sunday, however, only the best 9 are starting. And that “best 9” is situational — who worked hardest in practice that week, who produced on Saturday, who hits fast pitching better versus slow pitching (and vice versa). A lot of variables. And that “best 9” might change game-to-game if we advance, depending on the opponent. If your kid is on the bench, I will try to get them into the game, either as a courtesy runner or as a pinch hitter, but it’s entirely situational.

One time we lost our first game and were out of the tournament early. One kid didn’t play in that game. Parents start screaming at me. I looked at them evenly, told them they signed up for this and reminded them of the player contract they signed that, among other things, had a 24-hour rule.

I cut the kid the next day.

So you're an a**hole who is incapable of properly assessing kids at tryouts and then gives offers to kids who don't play?

I think we found the butt hurt parent who thinks their 10U player is Jennie Finch.

My teams had 11 or 12 girls. Some had more talent and ability than others. And some worked harder than others. And sometimes hard work beats talent that doesn’t work hard.

My policies were transparent and parents and kids explicitly agreed to them. What I learned through the years is some kids progress more quickly than others and those are the ones who get the opportunities in elimination game situations. And the kids who don’t progress who sit more — their parents tended to be the most aggressive and whiny.

I would cut this pp’s kid so fast their head would spin if they spoke to me IRL. Don’t come at me like that. You literally signed up for this.

You must feel like a big man putting 10 year old girls in their place

She is putting the 10 year old girl's PARENTS in their place.

I mean, not really. I'm not excusing the parent's behavior but, if this is the first time, I think some grace/conversation is warranted. Just referencing the "contract" is a dbag flex just b/c you can. Adults don't act that way, either.

There's a lot of focus on ahole parents here -and there are a lot of them- but there are just as many ahole coaches. They rule over their little kingdom with absolutes. THey don't like any questioning, even the respectful ones. And let's not pretend they don't play favorites. And in the situation noted above, "don't come at me like that"? ??? Adults do not react that way when they are in a place of authority over children, and their families who are paying a LOT of money to participate.

Naw. The proponderance of glass bowl parents is astronomically higher. For the simple reason that parents are worried about one child. Coaches are concerned about every child on the team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm really trying to understand the mindset of someone who wants to coach 11 year olds, but then decides that some of them get to have a miserable experience. Did you just have a miserable childhood that you want to take out on kids?

At U15 or 16, some kids won't play on travel teams. Even U13, kids know it and most find teams with roles that they accept. Doing to to U10s just makes you a dick

+1

A parent contract with “playing time during games and tournaments is NOT guaranteed” started at 13U for us. No one has ever had a problem with that. The kids will be in high school soon. Parents get it. If a kid or parent is not happy with their role, some choose to move on to a different team gracefully after the season.

But at 10-11 that is 100% crazy- and poor coaching. All the kids played- some more than others at that age- but they definitely all played at minimum 50% of the time. Why even take a kid on the team who isn’t going to play much, at that age? Unethical IMHO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry the coach lied. Many coaches are really terrible at this age - any coach who thinks winning is important at age 11 (select team or not) has a screw loose and is getting some sort of weird validation from being a winning coach instead of developing athletes and setting a good example for kids.

My only advice is to find a more casual, local-only travel team that’s not trying to be “competitive” (I take it that’s what you were trying to do, but don’t give up because of one crappy coach!). We have always sought out teams like this for our son, and I think it has only helped his development as a player, teammate, and quite frankly as a person. He is in high school now and nobody knows or cares who was on the “elite” team three or four years ago.

Very true. Any parent of a high school baseball player could tell some stories and give examples….performance at the younger ages has little correlation to performance later on at the high school level +. Many of the youth “stars” never even make the HS baseball team, and many youth “weak players” do. I’ve seen this over and over again. Lots of surprises.

It's called puberty.

You don't know how a kid will develop until they actually do.

Although...it is exceedingly rare that a professional athlete didn't dominate at every age.

You will hear of them form time-to-time...a player like Jackson Merrill who barely made the JV team as a HS freshmen, but then went on to be a first MLB pick after his senior year in HS.

95% are players like Messi (trained at FC Barcelona starting at 5), or Freddie Freeman or Bryce Harper or again nearly all pro athletes that were dominant players at 5, 10, 15, etc.

The actual point is the average Little League superstar is not going to grow up to be another Bryce Harper or Freddie Freeman. A lot of these kids won’t even be on their HS teams, meanwhile coaches are ruining the game for all of the other average kids who just want to play.

Harper and Freeman would have been just fine regardless of whether or not their less talented teammates actually got to play regularly when they were kids.

I don’t what to say. Our HS team has two LLs that feed into it and the starting 8 were all on their 12u LL All Star teams from both of those leagues…with the five starting pitchers also 12u All stars in LL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry the coach lied. Many coaches are really terrible at this age - any coach who thinks winning is important at age 11 (select team or not) has a screw loose and is getting some sort of weird validation from being a winning coach instead of developing athletes and setting a good example for kids.

My only advice is to find a more casual, local-only travel team that’s not trying to be “competitive” (I take it that’s what you were trying to do, but don’t give up because of one crappy coach!). We have always sought out teams like this for our son, and I think it has only helped his development as a player, teammate, and quite frankly as a person. He is in high school now and nobody knows or cares who was on the “elite” team three or four years ago.

Very true. Any parent of a high school baseball player could tell some stories and give examples….performance at the younger ages has little correlation to performance later on at the high school level +. Many of the youth “stars” never even make the HS baseball team, and many youth “weak players” do. I’ve seen this over and over again. Lots of surprises.

It's called puberty.

You don't know how a kid will develop until they actually do.

Although...it is exceedingly rare that a professional athlete didn't dominate at every age.

You will hear of them form time-to-time...a player like Jackson Merrill who barely made the JV team as a HS freshmen, but then went on to be a first MLB pick after his senior year in HS.

95% are players like Messi (trained at FC Barcelona starting at 5), or Freddie Freeman or Bryce Harper or again nearly all pro athletes that were dominant players at 5, 10, 15, etc.

The actual point is the average Little League superstar is not going to grow up to be another Bryce Harper or Freddie Freeman. A lot of these kids won’t even be on their HS teams, meanwhile coaches are ruining the game for all of the other average kids who just want to play.

Harper and Freeman would have been just fine regardless of whether or not their less talented teammates actually got to play regularly when they were kids.

I don’t what to say. Our HS team has two LLs that feed into it and the starting 8 were all on their 12u LL All Star teams from both of those leagues…with the five starting pitchers also 12u All stars in LL.

You are missing the point. It’s also, quite frankly, incredibly weird that you know the Little League history of all the kids in your High School. (I assume there are NO former Little League all-stars who DIDN’T make the team, right?) Some of you REALLY need to get a life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm really trying to understand the mindset of someone who wants to coach 11 year olds, but then decides that some of them get to have a miserable experience. Did you just have a miserable childhood that you want to take out on kids?

At U15 or 16, some kids won't play on travel teams. Even U13, kids know it and most find teams with roles that they accept. Doing to to U10s just makes you a dick

+1

A parent contract with “playing time during games and tournaments is NOT guaranteed” started at 13U for us. No one has ever had a problem with that. The kids will be in high school soon. Parents get it. If a kid or parent is not happy with their role, some choose to move on to a different team gracefully after the season.

But at 10-11 that is 100% crazy- and poor coaching. All the kids played- some more than others at that age- but they definitely all played at minimum 50% of the time. Why even take a kid on the team who isn’t going to play much, at that age? Unethical IMHO.

That's the wrong question to ask. Why even JOIN a team that has this structure at that age?

Again, the thread premise is "when coaches lie." But when the policies are spelled out and you still aspire to join that team and agree, in writing, to its policies, you don't then get to cry when the policies means your kid sits more on Sundays.

If you can't deal with that, don't join it in the first place.

But the reality is, a lot of parents overestimate their childrens' abilities and still aspire to join those kinds of teams for whatever reason -- the organization is perceived to be better than others, the coach has a reputation for success, hell, their friends are on it... And agree to the terms ... and then whine. That's a glass bowl parent, not a coach lying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry the coach lied. Many coaches are really terrible at this age - any coach who thinks winning is important at age 11 (select team or not) has a screw loose and is getting some sort of weird validation from being a winning coach instead of developing athletes and setting a good example for kids.

My only advice is to find a more casual, local-only travel team that’s not trying to be “competitive” (I take it that’s what you were trying to do, but don’t give up because of one crappy coach!). We have always sought out teams like this for our son, and I think it has only helped his development as a player, teammate, and quite frankly as a person. He is in high school now and nobody knows or cares who was on the “elite” team three or four years ago.

Very true. Any parent of a high school baseball player could tell some stories and give examples….performance at the younger ages has little correlation to performance later on at the high school level +. Many of the youth “stars” never even make the HS baseball team, and many youth “weak players” do. I’ve seen this over and over again. Lots of surprises.

It's called puberty.

You don't know how a kid will develop until they actually do.

Although...it is exceedingly rare that a professional athlete didn't dominate at every age.

You will hear of them form time-to-time...a player like Jackson Merrill who barely made the JV team as a HS freshmen, but then went on to be a first MLB pick after his senior year in HS.

95% are players like Messi (trained at FC Barcelona starting at 5), or Freddie Freeman or Bryce Harper or again nearly all pro athletes that were dominant players at 5, 10, 15, etc.

The actual point is the average Little League superstar is not going to grow up to be another Bryce Harper or Freddie Freeman. A lot of these kids won’t even be on their HS teams, meanwhile coaches are ruining the game for all of the other average kids who just want to play.

Harper and Freeman would have been just fine regardless of whether or not their less talented teammates actually got to play regularly when they were kids.

I don’t what to say. Our HS team has two LLs that feed into it and the starting 8 were all on their 12u LL All Star teams from both of those leagues…with the five starting pitchers also 12u All stars in LL.

You are missing the point. It’s also, quite frankly, incredibly weird that you know the Little League history of all the kids in your High School. (I assume there are NO former Little League all-stars who DIDN’T make the team, right?) Some of you REALLY need to get a life.

My kid is on the team...we have known all these kids for like 10+ years either as teammates or playing against each other. Not weird at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry the coach lied. Many coaches are really terrible at this age - any coach who thinks winning is important at age 11 (select team or not) has a screw loose and is getting some sort of weird validation from being a winning coach instead of developing athletes and setting a good example for kids.

My only advice is to find a more casual, local-only travel team that’s not trying to be “competitive” (I take it that’s what you were trying to do, but don’t give up because of one crappy coach!). We have always sought out teams like this for our son, and I think it has only helped his development as a player, teammate, and quite frankly as a person. He is in high school now and nobody knows or cares who was on the “elite” team three or four years ago.

Very true. Any parent of a high school baseball player could tell some stories and give examples….performance at the younger ages has little correlation to performance later on at the high school level +. Many of the youth “stars” never even make the HS baseball team, and many youth “weak players” do. I’ve seen this over and over again. Lots of surprises.

It's called puberty.

You don't know how a kid will develop until they actually do.

Although...it is exceedingly rare that a professional athlete didn't dominate at every age.

You will hear of them form time-to-time...a player like Jackson Merrill who barely made the JV team as a HS freshmen, but then went on to be a first MLB pick after his senior year in HS.

95% are players like Messi (trained at FC Barcelona starting at 5), or Freddie Freeman or Bryce Harper or again nearly all pro athletes that were dominant players at 5, 10, 15, etc.

The actual point is the average Little League superstar is not going to grow up to be another Bryce Harper or Freddie Freeman. A lot of these kids won’t even be on their HS teams, meanwhile coaches are ruining the game for all of the other average kids who just want to play.

Harper and Freeman would have been just fine regardless of whether or not their less talented teammates actually got to play regularly when they were kids.

I don’t what to say. Our HS team has two LLs that feed into it and the starting 8 were all on their 12u LL All Star teams from both of those leagues…with the five starting pitchers also 12u All stars in LL.

You are missing the point. It’s also, quite frankly, incredibly weird that you know the Little League history of all the kids in your High School. (I assume there are NO former Little League all-stars who DIDN’T make the team, right?) Some of you REALLY need to get a life.

DP here. If you coached little league, you know all the all stars in your league for the year ahead and the year behind your kid. That's not weird at all.

What I find weird is that the varsity team is entirely little league all stars. Like I said, about half the kids on our varsity team (we also have 2 little leagues feed into our high school) were not all stars on the little league team and probably not on any of the younger teams either.

Most all stars definitely do not make make it onto the team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm really trying to understand the mindset of someone who wants to coach 11 year olds, but then decides that some of them get to have a miserable experience. Did you just have a miserable childhood that you want to take out on kids?

At U15 or 16, some kids won't play on travel teams. Even U13, kids know it and most find teams with roles that they accept. Doing to to U10s just makes you a dick

+1

A parent contract with “playing time during games and tournaments is NOT guaranteed” started at 13U for us. No one has ever had a problem with that. The kids will be in high school soon. Parents get it. If a kid or parent is not happy with their role, some choose to move on to a different team gracefully after the season.

But at 10-11 that is 100% crazy- and poor coaching. All the kids played- some more than others at that age- but they definitely all played at minimum 50% of the time. Why even take a kid on the team who isn’t going to play much, at that age? Unethical IMHO.

That's the wrong question to ask. Why even JOIN a team that has this structure at that age?

Again, the thread premise is "when coaches lie." But when the policies are spelled out and you still aspire to join that team and agree, in writing, to its policies, you don't then get to cry when the policies means your kid sits more on Sundays.

If you can't deal with that, don't join it in the first place.

But the reality is, a lot of parents overestimate their childrens' abilities and still aspire to join those kinds of teams for whatever reason -- the organization is perceived to be better than others, the coach has a reputation for success, hell, their friends are on it... And agree to the terms ... and then whine. That's a glass bowl parent, not a coach lying.

Mostly because they are pretty sure some other kid is going to be sitting on the bench subsidizing their kid's playing time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm really trying to understand the mindset of someone who wants to coach 11 year olds, but then decides that some of them get to have a miserable experience. Did you just have a miserable childhood that you want to take out on kids?

At U15 or 16, some kids won't play on travel teams. Even U13, kids know it and most find teams with roles that they accept. Doing to to U10s just makes you a dick

+1

A parent contract with “playing time during games and tournaments is NOT guaranteed” started at 13U for us. No one has ever had a problem with that. The kids will be in high school soon. Parents get it. If a kid or parent is not happy with their role, some choose to move on to a different team gracefully after the season.

But at 10-11 that is 100% crazy- and poor coaching. All the kids played- some more than others at that age- but they definitely all played at minimum 50% of the time. Why even take a kid on the team who isn’t going to play much, at that age? Unethical IMHO.

That's the wrong question to ask. Why even JOIN a team that has this structure at that age?

Again, the thread premise is "when coaches lie." But when the policies are spelled out and you still aspire to join that team and agree, in writing, to its policies, you don't then get to cry when the policies means your kid sits more on Sundays.

If you can't deal with that, don't join it in the first place.

But the reality is, a lot of parents overestimate their childrens' abilities and still aspire to join those kinds of teams for whatever reason -- the organization is perceived to be better than others, the coach has a reputation for success, hell, their friends are on it... And agree to the terms ... and then whine. That's a glass bowl parent, not a coach lying.

Mostly because they are pretty sure some other kid is going to be sitting on the bench subsidizing their kid's playing time.

coaches also lie to sell parents. It can range from "I see you kid as my starting x position" to "I believe in development" to "my philosophy is that kids this age need to play"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry the coach lied. Many coaches are really terrible at this age - any coach who thinks winning is important at age 11 (select team or not) has a screw loose and is getting some sort of weird validation from being a winning coach instead of developing athletes and setting a good example for kids.

My only advice is to find a more casual, local-only travel team that’s not trying to be “competitive” (I take it that’s what you were trying to do, but don’t give up because of one crappy coach!). We have always sought out teams like this for our son, and I think it has only helped his development as a player, teammate, and quite frankly as a person. He is in high school now and nobody knows or cares who was on the “elite” team three or four years ago.

Very true. Any parent of a high school baseball player could tell some stories and give examples….performance at the younger ages has little correlation to performance later on at the high school level +. Many of the youth “stars” never even make the HS baseball team, and many youth “weak players” do. I’ve seen this over and over again. Lots of surprises.

It's called puberty.

You don't know how a kid will develop until they actually do.

Although...it is exceedingly rare that a professional athlete didn't dominate at every age.

You will hear of them form time-to-time...a player like Jackson Merrill who barely made the JV team as a HS freshmen, but then went on to be a first MLB pick after his senior year in HS.

95% are players like Messi (trained at FC Barcelona starting at 5), or Freddie Freeman or Bryce Harper or again nearly all pro athletes that were dominant players at 5, 10, 15, etc.

The actual point is the average Little League superstar is not going to grow up to be another Bryce Harper or Freddie Freeman. A lot of these kids won’t even be on their HS teams, meanwhile coaches are ruining the game for all of the other average kids who just want to play.

Harper and Freeman would have been just fine regardless of whether or not their less talented teammates actually got to play regularly when they were kids.

I don’t what to say. Our HS team has two LLs that feed into it and the starting 8 were all on their 12u LL All Star teams from both of those leagues…with the five starting pitchers also 12u All stars in LL.

You are missing the point. It’s also, quite frankly, incredibly weird that you know the Little League history of all the kids in your High School. (I assume there are NO former Little League all-stars who DIDN’T make the team, right?) Some of you REALLY need to get a life.

DP here. If you coached little league, you know all the all stars in your league for the year ahead and the year behind your kid. That's not weird at all.

What I find weird is that the varsity team is entirely little league all stars. Like I said, about half the kids on our varsity team (we also have 2 little leagues feed into our high school) were not all stars on the little league team and probably not on any of the younger teams either.

Most all stars definitely do not make make it onto the team.

The varsity team is not all LL All Stars, but the 8 starters and the 5 starting pitchers were all LL All Stars. There are another 12 players on the team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest to god, just quit. I’m sure you have better things to do with your time.

OP here. Our kid wants to and we’ve agreed that makes sense at end of fall season. Baseball, btw. Cant compete with coach’s kids and all the other nonsense. Has been rough on everyone and we don’t need it in our lives. It just gets old after awhile.

It honestly sounds like you have a terrible coach. Having a coach like this can really damage the self-esteem. There are so many options for baseball teams at your son’s age.

Baseball coaches themselves have self esteem issues and don't like to admit when they're wrong. Many don't even understand all the situational strategies and rules but act like know-it-alls in front of the kids and don't like it when they're corrected by the kids. At least that's from our experience.

[Anonymous]

This entire conversation is why I'm so very grateful for this anonymous forum. While there are always trolls or self-serving people posting as if they're objective, for the most part you can really get a sense of some of the teams to stay away from for this kind of reason. I know there are still often changes or surprises (positives and negatives), but whether it's been about schools or summer camps or sports teams, I love the fact that this forum exists and so much legit, useful info is shared here. All while still tossing massive duffle bags of salt over my shoulder as I read advice here.

[Anonymous]

On this "riding the bench" problem: for families navigating this for their 1st season there will often be unpleasant surprises like this, in most sports. But once your kid is playing, even if it's a bad experience, halfway through the season start watching other teams and talk to parents of other clubs about their experiences. Observe and also find out who seems to be much better at whatever your team/coach/club sucks at, and as the season ends try to find out about summer clinics and tryout clinics for clubs/teams you're really interested in.

TL/DR: Don't wait until next tryout season to start scoping other teams. Do your research during this season. Talking to other parents on other clubs is key.

[Anonymous]

Agree with PP if you want to keep your options open for the following season- know that depending on the sport (and location, I guess) tryouts can happen much earlier than you'd think.

Tryouts are happening now for summer 2025 baseball teams. It's madness but it's happening. This is in NOVA so maybe they do it differently elsewhere, but I'm also in the VA travel tryouts Facebook group and all around VA, teams are starting to hold tryouts for next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry the coach lied. Many coaches are really terrible at this age - any coach who thinks winning is important at age 11 (select team or not) has a screw loose and is getting some sort of weird validation from being a winning coach instead of developing athletes and setting a good example for kids.

My only advice is to find a more casual, local-only travel team that’s not trying to be “competitive” (I take it that’s what you were trying to do, but don’t give up because of one crappy coach!). We have always sought out teams like this for our son, and I think it has only helped his development as a player, teammate, and quite frankly as a person. He is in high school now and nobody knows or cares who was on the “elite” team three or four years ago.

Very true. Any parent of a high school baseball player could tell some stories and give examples….performance at the younger ages has little correlation to performance later on at the high school level +. Many of the youth “stars” never even make the HS baseball team, and many youth “weak players” do. I’ve seen this over and over again. Lots of surprises.

It's called puberty.

You don't know how a kid will develop until they actually do.

Although...it is exceedingly rare that a professional athlete didn't dominate at every age.

You will hear of them form time-to-time...a player like Jackson Merrill who barely made the JV team as a HS freshmen, but then went on to be a first MLB pick after his senior year in HS.

95% are players like Messi (trained at FC Barcelona starting at 5), or Freddie Freeman or Bryce Harper or again nearly all pro athletes that were dominant players at 5, 10, 15, etc.

The actual point is the average Little League superstar is not going to grow up to be another Bryce Harper or Freddie Freeman. A lot of these kids won’t even be on their HS teams, meanwhile coaches are ruining the game for all of the other average kids who just want to play.

Harper and Freeman would have been just fine regardless of whether or not their less talented teammates actually got to play regularly when they were kids.

I don’t what to say. Our HS team has two LLs that feed into it and the starting 8 were all on their 12u LL All Star teams from both of those leagues…with the five starting pitchers also 12u All stars in LL.

You are missing the point. It’s also, quite frankly, incredibly weird that you know the Little League history of all the kids in your High School. (I assume there are NO former Little League all-stars who DIDN’T make the team, right?) Some of you REALLY need to get a life.

My kid is on the team...we have known all these kids for like 10+ years either as teammates or playing against each other. Not weird at all.

So what happened to the other Little League all stars who are not members of the starting 8? By my math there are at least 8 former all stars who aren’t starting if your school pulls from two LLs. Have they already been signed by MLB?

How did these all stars manage to continue to be good even if they played on teams that weren’t packed with all stars during the regular season? Since it’s LL I’ll bet some of those scrubs even got a chance to bat or play in the infield occasionally!

And it is weird - I couldn’t tell you who my kid played against when he was 12 unless we independently knew the kid OR the kid was like a once in a generation, standout talent. But I suppose there are a LOT of busybody parents in youth sports.

Seriously, though. You are still missing the point.