State report says 7 Virginia universities should be monitored as enrollment cliff approaches

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Radford was part of Tech for a while

ODU was part of W&M

I think ODU is underrated, really, and Radford is a nice little campus.

Why did the state let the top 3 grow so much? It seems pretty obvious that growing those schools by a lot hurts the smaller schools.

This is the strangest take.

Why? A few schools increase student enrollment by a lot. The smaller universities lose enrollment to the bigger ones. It is a death spiral, really.

It is a shame because I think the smaller publics have value. My daughter almost went to Radford. I think Longwood and UMW would have been nice choices for her, but they didn’t have the programs she wanted, unfortunately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone! OP is referring is to an OPINION piecd not a new article. Big difference

Um, it’s an article about a report to the governor from an official government agency.

No, it's not. It's Dwayne Yancy's opinion on a report for Cardinal News, a small non-profit paper that tries to cover ""the untold story of SE and S Virginia". It says "OPINION" at the top. Always check before reading: opinion or news

No. Dwayne Yancy wrote an opinion piece on a report to the Governor and the Virginia General Assembly from the Joint Legislative Audit and Review Commission that was specifically linked to in the text.

https://jlarc.virginia.gov/pdfs/reports/Rpt593.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone! OP is referring is to an OPINION piecd not a new article. Big difference

Um, it’s an article about a report to the governor from an official government agency.

No, it's not. It's Dwayne Yancy's opinion on a report for Cardinal News, a small non-profit paper that tries to cover ""the untold story of SE and S Virginia". It says "OPINION" at the top. Always check before reading: opinion or news

Okay? Here is the jlarc study: https://jlarc.virginia.gov/pdfs/reports/Rpt593.pdf

The information everyone is talking about is on page 7
***
Several demographic and market trends will place pressure on higher education institutions

As noted in Chapter 1, most enrollment growth has occurred at large institutions rather than smaller and regional ones. In Virginia, five large institutions (GMU, JMU, UVA, Virginia Tech, William & Mary) gained approximately 21,600 students over the past decade, while the remaining 10 institutions lost approximately 9,500 students in that same timeframe. Statewide, this is a relatively modest shift (7 percent) in market share from Virginia's smaller and regional institutions to its larger institutions. Though modest in percentage terms, this shift represents more students in total than the enrollment of several Virginia institutions.

Likely decline in future higher education enrollment could exacerbate trend of market consolidation toward larger institutions

All institutions will be affected to some degree by demographic shifts that will reduce the traditional college age population in the near future—but institutions that have lost market share recently may be especially vulnerable to further declines. Higher education enrollment is expected to begin declining in 2025, according to the U.S. Department of Education.

This expected decline in traditional college-age students will mean all institutions will be competing for fewer students. Birth rates, both nationally and in Virginia, peaked in 2007 but subsequently declined following the Great Recession. The number of high school graduates is expected to peak in 2025 and decline at least through 2032 (Figure 2-1).
Commission

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The naming convention of VA publics is dumb and counter to what other states do to create a brand. Both public and private college options are also pretty pathetic in terms of selectivity and options. The schools generally are in armpit areas of the state compared to other states that place their schools in cities or have a well established college town. The schools should basically be as cheap or cheaper than other states because of these failings. A flagship in another state will have more brand recognition even if they are (at least of) equal rigor than any of the respective state schools in VA they are ranked closely with, including UVA and Tech. The fact that, all other things being equal, almost every high performing kid in VA will choose to go to an out-of-state school if given the chance is damning.

Where are you getting this ideas “that almost every high performing kid in VA chooses to go out of state?” Compared to other states, a huge number of Virginia kids choose to go out of state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The naming convention of VA publics is dumb and counter to what other states do to create a brand. Both public and private college options are also pretty pathetic in terms of selectivity and options. The schools generally are in armpit areas of the state compared to other states that place their schools in cities or have a well established college town. The schools should basically be as cheap or cheaper than other states because of these failings. A flagship in another state will have more brand recognition even if they are (at least of) equal rigor than any of the respective state schools in VA they are ranked closely with, including UVA and Tech. The fact that, all other things being equal, almost every high performing kid in VA will choose to go to an out-of-state school if given the chance is damning.

Where are you getting this ideas “that almost every high performing kid in VA chooses to go out of state?” Compared to other states, a huge number of Virginia kids choose to go out of state.

Choose to stay IN state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Maybe they had some extra per pupil in recent years but that doesn’t cover the huge gap.

And VSU is 1/6th the size of VT. Many expenses aren’t linear.

The Federal data behind this claim is wrong. It is from a database called IPEDS, which is data provided by the institutions, but not checked and often entered incorrectly or inconsistently, leading to errors.

The Virginia budget and its line items are public record, including those for Virginia State and Virginia Tech general fund appropriations, which is what is relevant here. The number of Full Time Equivalent students is tracked by the State Council on Higher Education. As you can see this data is combined in a report on the SCHEV website. You can see from the online report for the budget years 2009-2010 to 2022-2023, the state appropriated $150,058 per in-state FTE for Virginia State vs. $100,867 for Virginia Tech.

https://research.schev.edu/rdPage.aspx?finance&rdReport=finance.FP01_Report

[Anonymous]

Radford alumna here. Former campus tour guide, student leader and now active volunteer
with a particular interest in recruitment.

Radford has lost its identity and origin story that is nearly identical to JMU’s; both began as all-female state normal schools for teacher training. Both schools were purposely selected for geographical convenience to efficiently address the needs for college educated teachers to staff schools in their respective areas.

JMU and Radford went coed and gained university status roughly same time yet Radford has struggled to close the 4:1 female :male ratio and I’d argue, poured money into expanding programs that were too innovative.
Radford lost ground soon after going coed, while JMU leapt ahead and surpassed it.

RU became the easy-entry/safe/party school (and the only college that would accept me) while JMU got the clever moniker of Just Missed U(VA).

Below from Radford library archives:


Radford College was merged with Virginia Polytechnic Institute in 1944, becoming Radford College, the Women's Division of Virginia Polytechnic Institute, a formal arrangement that lasted until 1964. This collection includes preliminary studies about the merger, letters from Governor Colgate Darden, enrollment studies, newspaper clippings pertaining to the merger, correspondence and internal memos related to curricular and structural logistics and problems related to the merger, reports to the Board of Visitors, and detailed studies about the impact of the merger on the Home Economics Departments at both schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also from the same report....

https://wtop.com/education/2024/10/3-virginia-universities-with-some-viability-risks-study-finds/
"On Monday, Sen. Mamie Locke, D-Hampton, questioned if the risks against Virginia State have any connection to the institution not being funded to the same levels as Virginia Tech after the federal government estimated a year ago that VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Like Virginia Tech, the historically Black college in Petersburg is a land grant institution.

“It’s an HBCU and this state is known for not having funded HBCUs to the levels that they should be funded,” Locke said."


Virginia continues to underfund public schools.

Virginia State gets $18,991 per in-state FTE student in general fund appropriations (state revenues appropriated for the institution). Virginia Tech gets $9,480 per in-state FTE.

https://research.schev.edu/info/Reports.Guide-to-the-Finance-Policy-Reports

A few years of increased pupil funding doesn’t reflect the many decades of underfunding - by millions & millions of dollars.

Virginia State has been getting significantly more per FTE for many years.

You think that’s enough even though their facilities are in terrible shape compared to VT, VCU, etc.?

Virginia State has gotten more per FTE from the state than VT for many years. It is still struggling because it doesn't pull in as much money per FTE from other non state sources like net tuition and fees. Other non HBCUs in Virginia have the same issue.

No, it's not funding issue. It could have all the funding. All new facilities. And still it would struggle. Like many HBCUs it has a low graduation rate. It has a 90% acceptance rate and has pretty low admission standards. High achieving Black students are not going to select this school. They have too many other options. Even slight above average students are not selecting it. Employers are not going to seek out graduates of this school.

They shouldn't try and compete with other state school but instead focus on the program they offer that other schools don't which is Agriculture. They could modernized the curriculum ,and recruit more widely , they could attract some students. They could also partner with Tech to offer a transfer program for that degree. Or establish an animal studies degree and provide a pathway into VA tech vet school. This would attract a higher achieving more diverse student body.

It would be in a much different place today if it were funded like VT from the start.

It’s just another example of systemic racism that has long-lasting impacts to present day.

Of course, Republicans don’t want to fix it. They want to pretend like there is no problem here at all. They don’t value public education, especially for HBCUs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also from the same report....

https://wtop.com/education/2024/10/3-virginia-universities-with-some-viability-risks-study-finds/
"On Monday, Sen. Mamie Locke, D-Hampton, questioned if the risks against Virginia State have any connection to the institution not being funded to the same levels as Virginia Tech after the federal government estimated a year ago that VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Like Virginia Tech, the historically Black college in Petersburg is a land grant institution.

“It’s an HBCU and this state is known for not having funded HBCUs to the levels that they should be funded,” Locke said."


Virginia continues to underfund public schools.

Virginia State gets $18,991 per in-state FTE student in general fund appropriations (state revenues appropriated for the institution). Virginia Tech gets $9,480 per in-state FTE.

https://research.schev.edu/info/Reports.Guide-to-the-Finance-Policy-Reports

A few years of increased pupil funding doesn’t reflect the many decades of underfunding - by millions & millions of dollars.

Virginia State has been getting significantly more per FTE for many years.

You think that’s enough even though their facilities are in terrible shape compared to VT, VCU, etc.?

Virginia State has gotten more per FTE from the state than VT for many years. It is still struggling because it doesn't pull in as much money per FTE from other non state sources like net tuition and fees. Other non HBCUs in Virginia have the same issue.

No, it's not funding issue. It could have all the funding. All new facilities. And still it would struggle. Like many HBCUs it has a low graduation rate. It has a 90% acceptance rate and has pretty low admission standards. High achieving Black students are not going to select this school. They have too many other options. Even slight above average students are not selecting it. Employers are not going to seek out graduates of this school.

They shouldn't try and compete with other state school but instead focus on the program they offer that other schools don't which is Agriculture. They could modernized the curriculum ,and recruit more widely , they could attract some students. They could also partner with Tech to offer a transfer program for that degree. Or establish an animal studies degree and provide a pathway into VA tech vet school. This would attract a higher achieving more diverse student body.

It would be in a much different place today if it were funded like VT from the start.

It’s just another example of systemic racism that has long-lasting impacts to present day.

Of course, Republicans don’t want to fix it. They want to pretend like there is no problem here at all. They don’t value public education, especially for HBCUs.

You should send your kids. COA is $22k in-state. That’s half of William and Mary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Radford alumna here. Former campus tour guide, student leader and now active volunteer
with a particular interest in recruitment.

Radford has lost its identity and origin story that is nearly identical to JMU’s; both began as all-female state normal schools for teacher training. Both schools were purposely selected for geographical convenience to efficiently address the needs for college educated teachers to staff schools in their respective areas.

JMU and Radford went coed and gained university status roughly same time yet Radford has struggled to close the 4:1 female :male ratio and I’d argue, poured money into expanding programs that were too innovative.
Radford lost ground soon after going coed, while JMU leapt ahead and surpassed it.

RU became the easy-entry/safe/party school (and the only college that would accept me) while JMU got the clever moniker of Just Missed U(VA).

Below from Radford library archives:


Radford College was merged with Virginia Polytechnic Institute in 1944, becoming Radford College, the Women's Division of Virginia Polytechnic Institute, a formal arrangement that lasted until 1964. This collection includes preliminary studies about the merger, letters from Governor Colgate Darden, enrollment studies, newspaper clippings pertaining to the merger, correspondence and internal memos related to curricular and structural logistics and problems related to the merger, reports to the Board of Visitors, and detailed studies about the impact of the merger on the Home Economics Departments at both schools.

Very interesting. Which programs at Radford were too innovative?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also from the same report....

https://wtop.com/education/2024/10/3-virginia-universities-with-some-viability-risks-study-finds/
"On Monday, Sen. Mamie Locke, D-Hampton, questioned if the risks against Virginia State have any connection to the institution not being funded to the same levels as Virginia Tech after the federal government estimated a year ago that VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Like Virginia Tech, the historically Black college in Petersburg is a land grant institution.

“It’s an HBCU and this state is known for not having funded HBCUs to the levels that they should be funded,” Locke said."


Virginia continues to underfund public schools.

Virginia State gets $18,991 per in-state FTE student in general fund appropriations (state revenues appropriated for the institution). Virginia Tech gets $9,480 per in-state FTE.

https://research.schev.edu/info/Reports.Guide-to-the-Finance-Policy-Reports

A few years of increased pupil funding doesn’t reflect the many decades of underfunding - by millions & millions of dollars.

Virginia State has been getting significantly more per FTE for many years.

You think that’s enough even though their facilities are in terrible shape compared to VT, VCU, etc.?

Virginia State has gotten more per FTE from the state than VT for many years. It is still struggling because it doesn't pull in as much money per FTE from other non state sources like net tuition and fees. Other non HBCUs in Virginia have the same issue.

No, it's not funding issue. It could have all the funding. All new facilities. And still it would struggle. Like many HBCUs it has a low graduation rate. It has a 90% acceptance rate and has pretty low admission standards. High achieving Black students are not going to select this school. They have too many other options. Even slight above average students are not selecting it. Employers are not going to seek out graduates of this school.

They shouldn't try and compete with other state school but instead focus on the program they offer that other schools don't which is Agriculture. They could modernized the curriculum ,and recruit more widely , they could attract some students. They could also partner with Tech to offer a transfer program for that degree. Or establish an animal studies degree and provide a pathway into VA tech vet school. This would attract a higher achieving more diverse student body.

It would be in a much different place today if it were funded like VT from the start.

It’s just another example of systemic racism that has long-lasting impacts to present day.

Of course, Republicans don’t want to fix it. They want to pretend like there is no problem here at all. They don’t value public education, especially for HBCUs.

+100 The truth speaks for itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also from the same report....

https://wtop.com/education/2024/10/3-virginia-universities-with-some-viability-risks-study-finds/
"On Monday, Sen. Mamie Locke, D-Hampton, questioned if the risks against Virginia State have any connection to the institution not being funded to the same levels as Virginia Tech after the federal government estimated a year ago that VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Like Virginia Tech, the historically Black college in Petersburg is a land grant institution.

“It’s an HBCU and this state is known for not having funded HBCUs to the levels that they should be funded,” Locke said."


Virginia continues to underfund public schools.

Virginia State gets $18,991 per in-state FTE student in general fund appropriations (state revenues appropriated for the institution). Virginia Tech gets $9,480 per in-state FTE.

https://research.schev.edu/info/Reports.Guide-to-the-Finance-Policy-Reports

A few years of increased pupil funding doesn’t reflect the many decades of underfunding - by millions & millions of dollars.

Virginia State has been getting significantly more per FTE for many years.

You think that’s enough even though their facilities are in terrible shape compared to VT, VCU, etc.?

Virginia State has gotten more per FTE from the state than VT for many years. It is still struggling because it doesn't pull in as much money per FTE from other non state sources like net tuition and fees. Other non HBCUs in Virginia have the same issue.

No, it's not funding issue. It could have all the funding. All new facilities. And still it would struggle. Like many HBCUs it has a low graduation rate. It has a 90% acceptance rate and has pretty low admission standards. High achieving Black students are not going to select this school. They have too many other options. Even slight above average students are not selecting it. Employers are not going to seek out graduates of this school.

They shouldn't try and compete with other state school but instead focus on the program they offer that other schools don't which is Agriculture. They could modernized the curriculum ,and recruit more widely , they could attract some students. They could also partner with Tech to offer a transfer program for that degree. Or establish an animal studies degree and provide a pathway into VA tech vet school. This would attract a higher achieving more diverse student body.

It would be in a much different place today if it were funded like VT from the start.

It’s just another example of systemic racism that has long-lasting impacts to present day.

Of course, Republicans don’t want to fix it. They want to pretend like there is no problem here at all. They don’t value public education, especially for HBCUs.

+100 The truth speaks for itself.

Some posters here don’t seem to understand but hopefully their kids will receive a proper education and be part of a new generation of change.

[Anonymous]

Not sure I believe the original source, but…

I think CNU’s push into STEM and Accounting bode well for its future.

Accounting always will be needed; colleague’s son just graduated from CNU and landed a Big-4 job before graduation.

STEM is in strong demand now and will remain in strong demand in the future.

[Anonymous]

NSU’s proximity to ODU is not helping it. They’re about 10 minutes apart and ODU has far more amenities and programs, and is in a better part of town.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Maybe they had some extra per pupil in recent years but that doesn’t cover the huge gap.

And VSU is 1/6th the size of VT. Many expenses aren’t linear.

The Federal data behind this claim is wrong. It is from a database called IPEDS, which is data provided by the institutions, but not checked and often entered incorrectly or inconsistently, leading to errors.

The Virginia budget and its line items are public record, including those for Virginia State and Virginia Tech general fund appropriations, which is what is relevant here. The number of Full Time Equivalent students is tracked by the State Council on Higher Education. As you can see this data is combined in a report on the SCHEV website. You can see from the online report for the budget years 2009-2010 to 2022-2023, the state appropriated $150,058 per in-state FTE for Virginia State vs. $100,867 for Virginia Tech.

https://research.schev.edu/rdPage.aspx?finance&rdReport=finance.FP01_Report

While there are some issues with IPEDS, nothing indicates that the federal data is wrong.

Choosing to focus on one line item in recent years doesn’t tell the whole story. Facilities funding. Matching for USDA funding. Adjusting for the Pell status or tuition levels. When you look at the bigger picture, VSU has been historically underfunded, as many HBCUs have been.

It’s great that the state has started to invest in facilities recently. Given how far behind they are hopefully VA continues to address the inequality.