Culture essay question. Feels like a trap

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it’s at all a disavantage to write about carribean, middle eastern, North African (eg egyptian), Indian culture. When it’s a disadvantage to highlight Chinese, Korean, or Japanese, or Jewish culture….i just don’t know. My instinct is no, if it’s a really good essay. Maybe if it’s just a “this is my ethnicity and it’s special to me because o love my parents and my community” type essay. But they probably already know you are Korean/chinese/jewish/japanese so it’s probably not the essay that will affect as much as your name (unless you’ve got an ambiguous name, eg Chinese mom married Irish dad and your name is Jack Moynihan….). At some point, you can’t control for all the randomness.

FWIW, my kid has a very Jewish name but isn’t Jewish. Did the name hurt? Who knows. I don’t even know what they wrote their culture essay about — they wouldn’t tell me!

I think Indian and MENA is a disadvantaged. Chinese too. Japanese less so. I’d be less worried about a jewish name but I wouldn’t double down on using the culture essay to underscore this.

All this is annoying and sad. I’m not sure the race box wasn’t better. I don’t like the kids thinking about how to game this.

I review applications (not for college admissions) and most of the Indian applicants say the same thing. Unfortunately they’re getting bad advice, but I think the tide is turning and the students/families are becoming more cognizant that they need to differentiate themselves.

Thank you for admitting that you still illegally discriminate based on race.

They are not admissions officer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You sound paranoid.

My daughter’s common app essay drew heavily from her Asian heritage. It was authentic to her, and she got into 7 of the ten schools she applied to, all with offers of merit aid.

Please don’t pass your thinking onto your child. Let them be who they are. A school who wants someone like them will welcome them with open arms (and you don’t want to send them somewhere where they are not welcome).

There is empirical evidence that selective schools discriminated against asians.
Don't be naive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

Almost 10% of asian students get a 1500+ on the SAT. It's less than 1% for most other groups, except white where you get 2% (disproportionately jewish).

Academic achievement is not evenly distributed across races.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

Almost 10% of asian students get a 1500+ on the SAT. It's less than 1% for most other groups, except white where you get 2% (disproportionately jewish).

Academic achievement is not evenly distributed across races.

The power of a race almost entirely coming from the upper class of their nations!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think these schools want to hear about Asian culture, including Indian.

I don’t think they want to hear about middle eastern/North African.

I don’t think they want to hear about any Caribbean culture.

I think they’re only looking for (American) Black, Hispanic, indigenous, and rural, and first gen (but only if no specified ethnicity or one of the above).

The whole thing feels like a trap w college still stuck with their own implicit bias or not so implicit box checking.

Am I wrong? Wouldn’t you advise a kid with strong ties to, say, Egypt or China to pick a “culture” (club, neighborhood etc) that isn’t so impacted in this process?

This question is not there for you unless you are black or hispanic. They aren't allowed to ask your race but you are allowed to volunteer it.
This is how they can discriminate based on race without explicitly discriminating based on race.

And that’s ok. It’s ok to discriminate in this way. “Discriminate” only means making choices, after all. When you choose onion rings instead of French fries, you have discriminated.

And when you choose based on race you have racially discriminated. This is racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s obviously giving students an opportunity to talk about things that can give them a leg up in admissions without engaging in affirmative action.

And that's OK. Desirable, even. These schools want diverse cohorts.

Sure, if you believe in elevating race above merit.

Except that doesn’t happen and it’s insanely racist of you to suggest that it does. For starters, your definition of “merit” is not even universally agreed.

Aside from the empirical evidence we have that this absolutely happens, why would it be racist to point out racism?
And there isn't much controversy about the definition of merit, certainly not if we are talking about academic merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see evidence that backs up what you're saying when I look at students on college campuses.

This. You go on the campuses of top schools and they feel overwhelmingly Asian and South Asian. Clearly these kids are getting in.

This is as dumb as people who say that cops kill more white men than black men so cops clearly don't have a problem with black men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With the OP. Colleges do want more Black undergrads.

You guys, this question wasn’t a supplement until the SC decision. This is the workaround. If you’re Black or Hispanic, put it here. If you’re Asian, do so at your own risk.

John Roberts explicitly suggested schools do this in the decision.

He did not suggest that schools devise an essay question to prompt kids to self identify their race.

Allowing students to talk about their life experience (including how race has impacted their life) into consideration is different than low key asking them to self identify their race in an otherwise race blind application process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see evidence that backs up what you're saying when I look at students on college campuses.

This. You go on the campuses of top schools and they feel overwhelmingly Asian and South Asian. Clearly these kids are getting in.

This is as dumb as people who say that cops kill more white men than black men so cops clearly don't have a problem with black men.

Except one ends with death and the other is college admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No.

Privilege still trumps race. So this essay is the last remaining lever.

And racism is alive and well. I’m a little bitter that asian kids can’t be fully themselves in this process. Racism is shitty

So you're sorry that your racial preferences are at the expense of asians but you support it nonetheless

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No.

Privilege still trumps race. So this essay is the last remaining lever.

And racism is alive and well. I’m a little bitter that asian kids can’t be fully themselves in this process. Racism is shitty

So you're sorry that your racial preferences are at the expense of asians but you support it nonetheless

DP, but why is it wrong for campus’s to not be 50%+ Asian. White students are artificially limited, because we recognize a diverse environment and yeah…it makes college awesome, more interesting, and frankly less echo chamber-y. My first real discussion on Policing happened in a seminar with a black student who was low income advocating for MORE police, while a white liberal student harped on institutional racism, and an Asian American student had ambivalence between no police at all and the effects of crime. Those great discussions can only really spur with diverse living experiences, and if any of us are being honest, top colleges’ Asian populations are 70+% Chinese, Korean, and Japanese.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

Lol, you seem a bit grumpy and bitter.

URMs that go to these schools, and generally, are super intelligent, creative, high EQs. they will use this essay as an opp to discuss something interesting and authentic. could be race if it works but they wont /shouldnt shoehorn it here as main evenr when they can easily communicate it elsewhere and or adjacently here.

The bolded may be true in a vaccuum, but compared to their peers at the same institution, it is not true.And it becomes less true as you move down the totem pole of college selectivity. The gaps get wider and wider as each tier takes more than it's share of URM. By the time you get to places like Georgetown, the gap gets pretty shocking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

They don't want white or Asian students.. because there are already so many of them!
Meaning it is just more competitive amongst your peers if you are white or Asian, and less if you're not. Not that schools don't want white or Asian students at all.

Really unpopular opinion but colleges love Asian students and they’re highly overrepresented and nag as if they’re martyrs because they have to go to ucla or brown instead of Harvard- their parents’ dream

Asians are over-represented and that is the problem. They have too many and need to be more selective with asians in order to avoid almost half the students being asian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think these schools want to hear about Asian culture, including Indian.

I don’t think they want to hear about middle eastern/North African.

I don’t think they want to hear about any Caribbean culture.

I think they’re only looking for (American) Black, Hispanic, indigenous, and rural, and first gen (but only if no specified ethnicity or one of the above).

The whole thing feels like a trap w college still stuck with their own implicit bias or not so implicit box checking.

Am I wrong? Wouldn’t you advise a kid with strong ties to, say, Egypt or China to pick a “culture” (club, neighborhood etc) that isn’t so impacted in this process?

yes, who you call American blacks, we have a special place in this country. We have been here since 1619, before the revolution, we have never been immigrants. At the same time we were not treated as fully human till the 1960s after war (where yes, white americans sacrificed many lives and that cannot be forgotten) and battle in the courts. if it were noy for this American struggle to recongize the rights of all man you would not be in this country, the flood of immigration after 1968 would not have happen if not for the civil rights movement. so yes, if colleges want to hear about how people have overcome in a society in which their not to distant ancestors, many who are still alive, were literally treated as second class citizens, take time to understand that. This country has a history, the sum of the United States is not equal to being a place people can come to espace where they came from.

So a bunch of white people did horrible shit to a bunch of black people and the answer is to take opportunities earned by a bunch of asians people to give to the black people? We couldn't naturalize and become citizens. We didn't own slaves. But, OK, lets say that this is somehow fair because the asian immigrants are assuming the moral debt of the country when they immigrate here and it is somehow fair that they bear the lion's share of this moral debty. What moral debt does this country have to hispanics that asians must sacrifice so we can provide a preference to them? I mean chinese on the west coast were lynched, and hispanics were among the ones doing the lynching. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Chinese_massacre_of_1871

Why should asian opportunities be given to hispanics? There are at least as many hispanic beneficiaries of affirmative action as there are descendants of american slaves. And why should the african and caribbean immigrants receive this preference? Until very recently asians didn't show up on these shores with much more than any other immigrant, legal or otherwise. Vietnamese refugees came here with nothing. Most asian countries before 1980 had currency controls that restricted your ability to take money out of the country when you went to america.

Racism is a dirty business and the notion that there is such a thing as "good racism" is perverse.

Also, the immigration naturalization act had little to do with civil rights movement and had everything to do with the cold war and america's image on the world stage. In fact if you believe derrick bell, even the civil rights act was also largely the result of the cold war. See, interest convergence. Has it escaped you that noone was concerned about legacy admissions until affirmative action went away? Affirmative action was providing cover for legacy admissions and other white preferences, see, interest convergence.

When you make appeals like this over injustices you yourself never suffered, what you are seeking is justice and what you are getting is pity. A black man under the age of 40 (never mind an 18 year old applying for college) was not born into circumstances any worse than a poor asian immigrant in chinatown.

For someone promoting a culture that claims to value learning, this statement is so appallingly ignorant as to suggest that the person making is not sincere.

The briefest glance at any real research on this subject (such as that done by the US DOJ and very, very many police departments around the country) reveals that PPs statement is, of course, nonsense. Black people are stopped more by police on the street, in cars, on public transport (literally except at night in circumstances where police can’t see their race), they are searched more (despite white people having a slightly higher probability of carrying drugs or weapons), they are charged more than whites displaying identical behavior with offenses ranging from jay walking to resisting arrest, they are given higher sentences for identical crimes, they are paroled less often, and they are violated back to jail more often for identical things.

In school, the story is the same — white and Asian kids are given a pass on behavior that gets Black kids suspended or expelled or results in police being called.

Of course, PP likely knows all this, they are just hoping some DCUM readers don’t so that they can engage in obvious racist propaganda. I doubt they are even Asian. The Asians that I personally know, having suffered racism, are aware of all forms of it and support the Black community. Just like I wouldn’t go to Bangladesh as an America and attack the law setting aside a percentage of civil service jobs for families of veterans and talking about what I deserve at the expense of other groups, the real Asians that I know in the US don’t try to undermine the Black community but rather seek to work together to fight all racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

Almost 10% of asian students get a 1500+ on the SAT. It's less than 1% for most other groups, except white where you get 2% (disproportionately jewish).

Academic achievement is not evenly distributed across races.

The power of a race almost entirely coming from the upper class of their nations!

Until very recently, the upper class asians stayed in asia, why would they leave to come to a country that treated them poorly.