Lottery data with June offer numbers is up

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm stunned that Cooper is moving so little, less than 2nd St!

Everyone I know who got a Cooper seat took it, so I'm not surprised. I also know many people who ranked it over 2nd street because they thought they had no shot at 2nd.

It makes no sense to rank Cooper over 2nd if you prefer 2nd.

Some people seem determined to believe the lottery is trickier than it is. Always rank in order of true preference, people!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quick glance as a ward 4 parent; Takoma and Whittier not offering one spot so far for PK3 is remarkable.

Shepherd hasn't offered one waitlist spot in any grade.

Shepherd feeds to Deal and JR. Not the same as Whittier and Takoma. It is pretty remarkable those two schools didn’t offer a waitlist spot to any PK3 yet.

Not really. Lots of families these days use ECE spots at their IB or any other schools. The real differentiator is upper elementary and percentages of IB families that stay thru upper elementary thru 4th.

Ward 3 families need to stop saying this. We're an upper elementary family leaving our EOTP IB this year ONLY because of the middle school feed. I would LOVE if DCs could stay through fifth at our elementary, but when lottery gold strikes, you have to take it. I'm really sad to leave our school and DCs will be devastated when they find out, but the reality is that there are many nice elementary schools in this city that feed into very less nice middle and high schools, and middle class families that can't afford private have to play the lottery and take the opportunity when it comes.

You are leaving just as Pp said.

Don't be dense. There's a big difference between using your IB pre-K as free daycare and deciding to stay for first, second, third grade. The ONLY "real differentiator" at many EOTP schools is the middle school feeder pattern. There are plenty of schools in DC, if you're there in second and leaving in fourth, it's because you feel like you HAVE to, not because you want to.

Sure but you are not the majority. The data says it all and the overwhelming majority of higher SES IB families at these poorly performing EOTP schools are not staying at their IB schools past K/1st. There is a big exodus and by 2nd, it’s a few families. Just look at the makeup of your 2nd, 3rd grade classes compared to ECE.

The one exception is Capitol Hill schools where majority do stay thru 4th at least.

Big assumption to call all of these schools poorly performing. Look at the thread on Barnard for example. Schools can have lower overall numbers while meeting the needs of the top students very well. At the elementary level, that is.

And we moved from a DCPS similar to Barnard to a HRCS after second and truth be told, the academics are weaker at our new school. Less differentiation and less experienced teachers. It is what it is, but if you’ve never had your kids in EOTP DCPS schools, you are just parroting generalizations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quick glance as a ward 4 parent; Takoma and Whittier not offering one spot so far for PK3 is remarkable.

Shepherd hasn't offered one waitlist spot in any grade.

Shepherd feeds to Deal and JR. Not the same as Whittier and Takoma. It is pretty remarkable those two schools didn’t offer a waitlist spot to any PK3 yet.

Not really. Lots of families these days use ECE spots at their IB or any other schools. The real differentiator is upper elementary and percentages of IB families that stay thru upper elementary thru 4th.

Ward 3 families need to stop saying this. We're an upper elementary family leaving our EOTP IB this year ONLY because of the middle school feed. I would LOVE if DCs could stay through fifth at our elementary, but when lottery gold strikes, you have to take it. I'm really sad to leave our school and DCs will be devastated when they find out, but the reality is that there are many nice elementary schools in this city that feed into very less nice middle and high schools, and middle class families that can't afford private have to play the lottery and take the opportunity when it comes.

You are leaving just as Pp said.

Don't be dense. There's a big difference between using your IB pre-K as free daycare and deciding to stay for first, second, third grade. The ONLY "real differentiator" at many EOTP schools is the middle school feeder pattern. There are plenty of schools in DC, if you're there in second and leaving in fourth, it's because you feel like you HAVE to, not because you want to.

Sure but you are not the majority. The data says it all and the overwhelming majority of higher SES IB families at these poorly performing EOTP schools are not staying at their IB schools past K/1st. There is a big exodus and by 2nd, it’s a few families. Just look at the makeup of your 2nd, 3rd grade classes compared to ECE.

The one exception is Capitol Hill schools where majority do stay thru 4th at least.

Can you provide a link to this data?

It doesn't really exist. Audited enrollment numbers will give number of students by grade, number of students by race, and number of students by at-risk designation, but it doesn't give at-risk/race by grade. You can kind of get a sense of the PK3-2nd and 3rd-5th split looking at PARCC data totals by at-risk/race, but at individual grade levels the data is often suppressed.

I think PP may have literally meant "look." Not really a great basis for making sweeping generalizations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quick glance as a ward 4 parent; Takoma and Whittier not offering one spot so far for PK3 is remarkable.

Shepherd hasn't offered one waitlist spot in any grade.

Shepherd feeds to Deal and JR. Not the same as Whittier and Takoma. It is pretty remarkable those two schools didn’t offer a waitlist spot to any PK3 yet.

Not really. Lots of families these days use ECE spots at their IB or any other schools. The real differentiator is upper elementary and percentages of IB families that stay thru upper elementary thru 4th.

Ward 3 families need to stop saying this. We're an upper elementary family leaving our EOTP IB this year ONLY because of the middle school feed. I would LOVE if DCs could stay through fifth at our elementary, but when lottery gold strikes, you have to take it. I'm really sad to leave our school and DCs will be devastated when they find out, but the reality is that there are many nice elementary schools in this city that feed into very less nice middle and high schools, and middle class families that can't afford private have to play the lottery and take the opportunity when it comes.

You are leaving just as Pp said.

Don't be dense. There's a big difference between using your IB pre-K as free daycare and deciding to stay for first, second, third grade. The ONLY "real differentiator" at many EOTP schools is the middle school feeder pattern. There are plenty of schools in DC, if you're there in second and leaving in fourth, it's because you feel like you HAVE to, not because you want to.

Sure but you are not the majority. The data says it all and the overwhelming majority of higher SES IB families at these poorly performing EOTP schools are not staying at their IB schools past K/1st. There is a big exodus and by 2nd, it’s a few families. Just look at the makeup of your 2nd, 3rd grade classes compared to ECE.

The one exception is Capitol Hill schools where majority do stay thru 4th at least.

Can you provide a link to this data?

It doesn't really exist. Audited enrollment numbers will give number of students by grade, number of students by race, and number of students by at-risk designation, but it doesn't give at-risk/race by grade. You can kind of get a sense of the PK3-2nd and 3rd-5th split looking at PARCC data totals by at-risk/race, but at individual grade levels the data is often suppressed.

I think PP may have literally meant "look." Not really a great basis for making sweeping generalizations.

I think the PK3-2nd vs. PARCC grade demographics tells you quite a bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Takoma also didn’t make any offers for 1st, 2nd or 5th grade and only opened 4-7 lottery seats for each of those grades so it isn’t just prek.

It blew through the entire waitlist in third grade, though--that was a surprise to us. My kid had a very bad lottery number (last spot on each waitlist) and we still were offered a place. It just goes to show that this isn't a predictable process.

[Anonymous]

different poster. the “really good” elementary/“bad” IB middle combo is presumably one of the 3 Hill area middle schools.

[Anonymous]

yes, if you already have a sibling at Cooper or live lots closer (Brookland/Edgewood etc.), you might rank it over 2nd street. some ppl definitely fit these categories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:yes, if you already have a sibling at Cooper or live lots closer (Brookland/Edgewood etc.), you might rank it over 2nd street. some ppl definitely fit these categories.

Definitely. Cooper is walkable for us, which is a huge deal when having also a kid in elementary and a kid in daycare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quick glance as a ward 4 parent; Takoma and Whittier not offering one spot so far for PK3 is remarkable.

Shepherd hasn't offered one waitlist spot in any grade.

Shepherd feeds to Deal and JR. Not the same as Whittier and Takoma. It is pretty remarkable those two schools didn’t offer a waitlist spot to any PK3 yet.

Not really. Lots of families these days use ECE spots at their IB or any other schools. The real differentiator is upper elementary and percentages of IB families that stay thru upper elementary thru 4th.

Ward 3 families need to stop saying this. We're an upper elementary family leaving our EOTP IB this year ONLY because of the middle school feed. I would LOVE if DCs could stay through fifth at our elementary, but when lottery gold strikes, you have to take it. I'm really sad to leave our school and DCs will be devastated when they find out, but the reality is that there are many nice elementary schools in this city that feed into very less nice middle and high schools, and middle class families that can't afford private have to play the lottery and take the opportunity when it comes.

You are leaving just as Pp said.

Don't be dense. There's a big difference between using your IB pre-K as free daycare and deciding to stay for first, second, third grade. The ONLY "real differentiator" at many EOTP schools is the middle school feeder pattern. There are plenty of schools in DC, if you're there in second and leaving in fourth, it's because you feel like you HAVE to, not because you want to.

Sure but you are not the majority. The data says it all and the overwhelming majority of higher SES IB families at these poorly performing EOTP schools are not staying at their IB schools past K/1st. There is a big exodus and by 2nd, it’s a few families. Just look at the makeup of your 2nd, 3rd grade classes compared to ECE.

The one exception is Capitol Hill schools where majority do stay thru 4th at least.

Can you provide a link to this data?

It doesn't really exist. Audited enrollment numbers will give number of students by grade, number of students by race, and number of students by at-risk designation, but it doesn't give at-risk/race by grade. You can kind of get a sense of the PK3-2nd and 3rd-5th split looking at PARCC data totals by at-risk/race, but at individual grade levels the data is often suppressed.

I think PP may have literally meant "look." Not really a great basis for making sweeping generalizations.

I think the PK3-2nd vs. PARCC grade demographics tells you quite a bit.

Not knowing the distribution within in those grade bands limits its practical utility.

For example, at our IB 3rd-5th is about 60% economically disadvantaged. But working around data suppression (not possible at all schools), the actual distribution is 47% in 3rd, 64% in 4th, and 73% in 5th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yes, if you already have a sibling at Cooper or live lots closer (Brookland/Edgewood etc.), you might rank it over 2nd street. some ppl definitely fit these categories.

Definitely. Cooper is walkable for us, which is a huge deal when having also a kid in elementary and a kid in daycare.

Sure, there are several reasons why you might prefer Cooper (siblings, location, language) but people are responding to the PP who said that people were ranking Cooper first because they didn't think they had a shot at 2nd. People aren't saying that others should necessarily prefer 2nd over Cooper or that it's bad to rank Cooper higher. People are saying that you shouldn't rank Cooper higher based on your chances of getting a spot at 2nd. That's the part that is wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yes, if you already have a sibling at Cooper or live lots closer (Brookland/Edgewood etc.), you might rank it over 2nd street. some ppl definitely fit these categories.

Definitely. Cooper is walkable for us, which is a huge deal when having also a kid in elementary and a kid in daycare.

Sure, there are several reasons why you might prefer Cooper (siblings, location, language) but people are responding to the PP who said that people were ranking Cooper first because they didn't think they had a shot at 2nd. People aren't saying that others should necessarily prefer 2nd over Cooper or that it's bad to rank Cooper higher. People are saying that you shouldn't rank Cooper higher based on your chances of getting a spot at 2nd. That's the part that is wrong.

Some people just don't grasp how the lottery works, it's true. Especially if they've been happy with their elementary school and haven't lotteried since PK3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:EA at BASIS is going to be a disaster.

You said the quiet part out loud. Why do you assume that kids who are economically disadvantaged are dumb and/or can't apply themselves? Why do you assume they don't have or can't develop executive functioning? Some of these 10 and 11 year old kids have already dealt with more sh*t in their lives than you will ever know and they are still in the game fighting to succeed. EA preferences are designed precisely for this reason; to ensure kids who more than many others need a solid educational footing have access.

DP. My understanding of the Basis model is that it would take a lot of support at home to catch up academically and pass the tests. If the kids are coming in behind and Basis keeps its “up or out” approach, we’re gonna see a disproportionate number of EA kids dropping out.

Your understanding is wrong. The kids at the top of the class don't have parents all up in their stuff. They tend to be independent, self-starting learners. Kids who grow up in unstable environments and grow up quickly might tend to exhibit high level executive functioning beyond coddled peers whose parents sit next to them and do the work with them.

BASIS is a lottery school. A kid coming in through EA is not going to magically be at the top of the class. The myth of the miraculously prepared tough-luck kid is a myth.

But someone went through the lottery process. That absolutely takes parental or family involvement. As a teacher I’ve taught many bright kids who excelled and would be EA. This idea that parents aren’t involved or care about their kids education if they are eligible for EA is gross.

It scares me if you are teaching our kids with that ability to reason. No one said there aren't EA families that support their kids. The question is whether there's a higher percentage of kids from EA or non EA who are supported at home. We all know the answer to that and it has nothing to do with whether we're pulling for the non EA kids to succeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yes, if you already have a sibling at Cooper or live lots closer (Brookland/Edgewood etc.), you might rank it over 2nd street. some ppl definitely fit these categories.

Definitely. Cooper is walkable for us, which is a huge deal when having also a kid in elementary and a kid in daycare.

Sure, there are several reasons why you might prefer Cooper (siblings, location, language) but people are responding to the PP who said that people were ranking Cooper first because they didn't think they had a shot at 2nd. People aren't saying that others should necessarily prefer 2nd over Cooper or that it's bad to rank Cooper higher. People are saying that you shouldn't rank Cooper higher based on your chances of getting a spot at 2nd. That's the part that is wrong.

Some people just don't grasp how the lottery works, it's true. Especially if they've been happy with their elementary school and haven't lotteried since PK3.

Unfortunate truth. It also happens with some choosing not to lottery at 5th grade because they are happy with ES and thinking they'll just do it for 6th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yes, if you already have a sibling at Cooper or live lots closer (Brookland/Edgewood etc.), you might rank it over 2nd street. some ppl definitely fit these categories.

Definitely. Cooper is walkable for us, which is a huge deal when having also a kid in elementary and a kid in daycare.

Sure, there are several reasons why you might prefer Cooper (siblings, location, language) but people are responding to the PP who said that people were ranking Cooper first because they didn't think they had a shot at 2nd. People aren't saying that others should necessarily prefer 2nd over Cooper or that it's bad to rank Cooper higher. People are saying that you shouldn't rank Cooper higher based on your chances of getting a spot at 2nd. That's the part that is wrong.

Some people just don't grasp how the lottery works, it's true. Especially if they've been happy with their elementary school and haven't lotteried since PK3.

Unfortunate truth. It also happens with some choosing not to lottery at 5th grade because they are happy with ES and thinking they'll just do it for 6th.

I just lived this (have a 4th grader at a good EOTP school with a bad middle) and while I may have considered staying when I was young and foolish, it was not at all an option. Our entire cohort played the lottery. Middle school is too important and the chances of getting a better path in 5th is so much higher than waiting for 6th (bc of Latin, Basis, ITS and all of the deal and Hardy (and maybe others depending on your standards)) feeders.

We had a medium number and got a placement at a good charter and an offer from a Hardy feeder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quick glance as a ward 4 parent; Takoma and Whittier not offering one spot so far for PK3 is remarkable.

Shepherd hasn't offered one waitlist spot in any grade.

Shepherd feeds to Deal and JR. Not the same as Whittier and Takoma. It is pretty remarkable those two schools didn’t offer a waitlist spot to any PK3 yet.

Not really. Lots of families these days use ECE spots at their IB or any other schools. The real differentiator is upper elementary and percentages of IB families that stay thru upper elementary thru 4th.

Ward 3 families need to stop saying this. We're an upper elementary family leaving our EOTP IB this year ONLY because of the middle school feed. I would LOVE if DCs could stay through fifth at our elementary, but when lottery gold strikes, you have to take it. I'm really sad to leave our school and DCs will be devastated when they find out, but the reality is that there are many nice elementary schools in this city that feed into very less nice middle and high schools, and middle class families that can't afford private have to play the lottery and take the opportunity when it comes.

You are leaving just as Pp said.

Don't be dense. There's a big difference between using your IB pre-K as free daycare and deciding to stay for first, second, third grade. The ONLY "real differentiator" at many EOTP schools is the middle school feeder pattern. There are plenty of schools in DC, if you're there in second and leaving in fourth, it's because you feel like you HAVE to, not because you want to.

Sure but you are not the majority. The data says it all and the overwhelming majority of higher SES IB families at these poorly performing EOTP schools are not staying at their IB schools past K/1st. There is a big exodus and by 2nd, it’s a few families. Just look at the makeup of your 2nd, 3rd grade classes compared to ECE.

The one exception is Capitol Hill schools where majority do stay thru 4th at least.

Can you provide a link to this data?

It doesn't really exist. Audited enrollment numbers will give number of students by grade, number of students by race, and number of students by at-risk designation, but it doesn't give at-risk/race by grade. You can kind of get a sense of the PK3-2nd and 3rd-5th split looking at PARCC data totals by at-risk/race, but at individual grade levels the data is often suppressed.

I think PP may have literally meant "look." Not really a great basis for making sweeping generalizations.

I think the PK3-2nd vs. PARCC grade demographics tells you quite a bit.

Not knowing the distribution within in those grade bands limits its practical utility.

For example, at our IB 3rd-5th is about 60% economically disadvantaged. But working around data suppression (not possible at all schools), the actual distribution is 47% in 3rd, 64% in 4th, and 73% in 5th.

OK, so if PK3-2nd is 25% economically disadvantaged, that's a very different story from if it's 55% in terms of what's happening with attrition.