Can ask for a placement test into Algebra 1 in 7th grade in middle school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: What Geometry is used in science classes in college?

Umm... all of physics, organic chemistry, astronomy, calculus, engineering especially mechanical. And this is just a sampling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see why not. It’s up to the student - it no longer needs an invite or recommendation. A win for inclusive programs.

Anonymous wrote:My daughter didn't get 91% percentile in the IAAT, if she advanced pass the 7th grade SOL, can she ask for a placement test into the Algebra 1 at middle school ?

Algebra 1 H in 7th grades is not open to anyone. There are specific requirements that have to be meet. There are a few middle schools that they bend the requirements to get a big enough class. It sounds like there might be a few exceptions in some places but I would expect that most schools hold a tight line.

At the end of first quarter there will be people talking about dropping their kids to 7th Honors from Algebra 1 because they will be caught off guard by hard the class is. They don’t just let people in.

8th grade is different, anyone can take the class but I know that Teachers and Counselors give very specific guidance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There's very little to "teach" in basic math. The books are clear and there are videos too. It takes practice and practice for students to reach their potential.

Gaining proficiency in basic arithmetic is similar to gaining proficiency in basketball shooting. The more the practice, the better one gets.

practice makes one perfect

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other option is to have her start taking an online algebra class at home like AOPS or there are plenty of really good homeschool algebra programs. She takes algebra at home while taking pre-algebra/math 7 next year. In 8th she takes honors algebra and gets an easy A since she will have already taken algebra and keeps studying topics into algebra 2.

Then she takes geometry the summer between 8th and 9th. In 9th she has caught up to the students who took algebra in 7th. Except she has taken more algebra without having a gap of a year like the student who took geometry in 8th. And has studied some topics from algebra 2. This worked for my child who then got an A in 9th honors algebra 2 while some other students struggled who were advanced into algebra in 7th.

I think this would require taking geometry at home in 8th grade so that she isn't expected to learn a year's worth of math over the summer. It's also a shame that a student who has already taken algebra and can demonstrate their knowledge would need to retake the class.

This is true but not as bad as you think.

The Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 sequence is absolutely terrible. You should do both Algebra and Geometry every year.
So you are in good shape to spend school time reviewing easy Algebra 1 for fluency, and spend home time learning Geometry (lots of high-quality low-cost options) before getting summer credit

Many of the top students do this. It's also better, pedagogically, for your student to learn at their own pace first, and use the school pace later for review, instead of jumping ahead in school where now they have a high-stakes commitment to keep up with school pace.

This is a strange way to look at school. Where did this idea come from, that school is not for learning but is only for getting high grades? Teachers teach material, kids don't have to prelearn it. Their parents think they should so they preteach it (either through a class or at the kitchen table). But why?

Because of the reality that math is unfortunately taught extremely poorly in American schools, (FCPS not being that different, outside perhaps a few schools and/or teachers). Many parents who realize this then come to the logical conclusion that kids can learn math at home/via enrichment much more thoroughly. It's a sad situation, but there's no easy fix, it's cultural and would likely take generations to fix the way math is taught in schools.

Math is taught just fine if you look at the advanced cohort. The biggest difference compared to international students is how early other countries track students to the trades and away from math.

I don't agree, the advanced cohort in this area has been learning more math from out of school enrichment activities, so you cannot just say that math is taught fine in school. If you want simple proof, all you have to do is look at the worksheets and type of material the children work on in school, and you will quickly realize how bad it is.

Some have and some have not. My kids Advanced Math class has three kids that discuss doing math enrichment, the rest don't or don't discuss it. The math club at his school only has 4 6th graders and only one of them, my kid, does math outside of school. I know two kids who scored in the 99th percentile on the IAAT who have not done any outside math enrichment. One of DS friends who does very well in Advanced Math is very open in thinking it is crazy that he enjoys math competitions and does them for fun.

DS attends RSM and the classes meet just about every stereotype that you can come up with. They are mainly male, mostly Indian, Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. There are probably other Asian countries represented but those are the languages I recognize. The European looking families that I see are speaking in what sounds like Russian or some type of Slavic language.

There are probably schools were there are far more kids in math enrichment, I would guess the ES and MS Centers, so parents at those schools might feel more pressure for their kids to be enrolled in enrichment. There is a cultural element at play and we would be crazy to not admit that. But there are a good number of kids who will never take a math enrichment class and do well in higher level math in school.

My 8th grader is in Geometry. 600 on every math SOL he has ever taken. 99th percentile on IAAT. High A's every quarter in Algebra and Geometry. And has never had any outside enrichment. He just has a mathy brain. Of his 6 closest friends, all of whom are in Geometry in 8th, only one has ever done outside enrichment--he went to Mathnasium in early ES but not since 2nd or 3rd grade. DS's friends who do outside math enrichment are all in Algebra II in 8th grade, either because they did Algebra in 6th (went to the MS for 1st period) or because they took Geometry the summer between 7th and 8th.

How does your son feel about being "behind" some of his friends? Does he wish he took geometry over the summer like they did?

My kid is similar, >570 on all SOL Math tests, 99th percentile on IAAT, high A's every quarter in Honor Algebra 1. He wanted to take summer geometry and I said no. His reasoning? "many of my friends are going to take it this summer so I should take it." My reason? "Geometry is such an important class that no one should rush it if they are planning to be in a STEM field". I teach science in college so I do know a thing or two about math preparation. Some (not a few) students in my science classes have problems with fundamental algebra and geometry. I feel bad as there is not much I could do and honestly it is too late to fix when they are in college. Maybe some of them were pushed to Algrebra/Geometry when they are not ready or took those classes in summer, I do not know. Parents here who are reading this: Math is foundation and this is not a race, think long-term please.

Why not allow him to take it over the summer Conditional on him properly learning it next year? Or why not teach him geometry this year so he could complete it over the summer without worrying about absorbing the material at the fast pace?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other option is to have her start taking an online algebra class at home like AOPS or there are plenty of really good homeschool algebra programs. She takes algebra at home while taking pre-algebra/math 7 next year. In 8th she takes honors algebra and gets an easy A since she will have already taken algebra and keeps studying topics into algebra 2.

Then she takes geometry the summer between 8th and 9th. In 9th she has caught up to the students who took algebra in 7th. Except she has taken more algebra without having a gap of a year like the student who took geometry in 8th. And has studied some topics from algebra 2. This worked for my child who then got an A in 9th honors algebra 2 while some other students struggled who were advanced into algebra in 7th.

I think this would require taking geometry at home in 8th grade so that she isn't expected to learn a year's worth of math over the summer. It's also a shame that a student who has already taken algebra and can demonstrate their knowledge would need to retake the class.

This is true but not as bad as you think.

The Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 sequence is absolutely terrible. You should do both Algebra and Geometry every year.
So you are in good shape to spend school time reviewing easy Algebra 1 for fluency, and spend home time learning Geometry (lots of high-quality low-cost options) before getting summer credit

Many of the top students do this. It's also better, pedagogically, for your student to learn at their own pace first, and use the school pace later for review, instead of jumping ahead in school where now they have a high-stakes commitment to keep up with school pace.

This is a strange way to look at school. Where did this idea come from, that school is not for learning but is only for getting high grades? Teachers teach material, kids don't have to prelearn it. Their parents think they should so they preteach it (either through a class or at the kitchen table). But why?

Because of the reality that math is unfortunately taught extremely poorly in American schools, (FCPS not being that different, outside perhaps a few schools and/or teachers). Many parents who realize this then come to the logical conclusion that kids can learn math at home/via enrichment much more thoroughly. It's a sad situation, but there's no easy fix, it's cultural and would likely take generations to fix the way math is taught in schools.

Math is taught just fine if you look at the advanced cohort. The biggest difference compared to international students is how early other countries track students to the trades and away from math.

I don't agree, the advanced cohort in this area has been learning more math from out of school enrichment activities, so you cannot just say that math is taught fine in school. If you want simple proof, all you have to do is look at the worksheets and type of material the children work on in school, and you will quickly realize how bad it is.

Some have and some have not. My kids Advanced Math class has three kids that discuss doing math enrichment, the rest don't or don't discuss it. The math club at his school only has 4 6th graders and only one of them, my kid, does math outside of school. I know two kids who scored in the 99th percentile on the IAAT who have not done any outside math enrichment. One of DS friends who does very well in Advanced Math is very open in thinking it is crazy that he enjoys math competitions and does them for fun.

DS attends RSM and the classes meet just about every stereotype that you can come up with. They are mainly male, mostly Indian, Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. There are probably other Asian countries represented but those are the languages I recognize. The European looking families that I see are speaking in what sounds like Russian or some type of Slavic language.

There are probably schools were there are far more kids in math enrichment, I would guess the ES and MS Centers, so parents at those schools might feel more pressure for their kids to be enrolled in enrichment. There is a cultural element at play and we would be crazy to not admit that. But there are a good number of kids who will never take a math enrichment class and do well in higher level math in school.

My 8th grader is in Geometry. 600 on every math SOL he has ever taken. 99th percentile on IAAT. High A's every quarter in Algebra and Geometry. And has never had any outside enrichment. He just has a mathy brain. Of his 6 closest friends, all of whom are in Geometry in 8th, only one has ever done outside enrichment--he went to Mathnasium in early ES but not since 2nd or 3rd grade. DS's friends who do outside math enrichment are all in Algebra II in 8th grade, either because they did Algebra in 6th (went to the MS for 1st period) or because they took Geometry the summer between 7th and 8th.

How does your son feel about being "behind" some of his friends? Does he wish he took geometry over the summer like they did?

My kid is similar, >570 on all SOL Math tests, 99th percentile on IAAT, high A's every quarter in Honor Algebra 1. He wanted to take summer geometry and I said no. His reasoning? "many of my friends are going to take it this summer so I should take it." My reason? "Geometry is such an important class that no one should rush it if they are planning to be in a STEM field". I teach science in college so I do know a thing or two about math preparation. Some (not a few) students in my science classes have problems with fundamental algebra and geometry. I feel bad as there is not much I could do and honestly it is too late to fix when they are in college. Maybe some of them were pushed to Algrebra/Geometry when they are not ready or took those classes in summer, I do not know. Parents here who are reading this: Math is foundation and this is not a race, think long-term please.

Why not allow him to take it over the summer Conditional on him properly learning it next year? Or why not teach him geometry this year so he could complete it over the summer without worrying about absorbing the material at the fast pace?

Why spend a month of summer doing a math class and not doing things that are relaxing and fun? Geometry in the summer, even for the kids who are strong at math, means 5 days of class for 4 weeks. They have to be online for that class for something like 4 hours a day. They have to complete homework and prepare for tests/quizzes daily.

I know a kid who is missing attending camp with his Scout Troop to take Geometry this summer. What does it get him? It doesn’t improve his chances for attending TJ. So what does it get him? A year more acceleration in math in HS. And that does what for him?

I cannot think of a good reason to take Geometry in the summer. You condense a class into a short time frame. The kids who do well in it are probably kids who took Geometry at RSM or AoPS so they know the material and now they are losing a month of summer to officially take the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other option is to have her start taking an online algebra class at home like AOPS or there are plenty of really good homeschool algebra programs. She takes algebra at home while taking pre-algebra/math 7 next year. In 8th she takes honors algebra and gets an easy A since she will have already taken algebra and keeps studying topics into algebra 2.

Then she takes geometry the summer between 8th and 9th. In 9th she has caught up to the students who took algebra in 7th. Except she has taken more algebra without having a gap of a year like the student who took geometry in 8th. And has studied some topics from algebra 2. This worked for my child who then got an A in 9th honors algebra 2 while some other students struggled who were advanced into algebra in 7th.

I think this would require taking geometry at home in 8th grade so that she isn't expected to learn a year's worth of math over the summer. It's also a shame that a student who has already taken algebra and can demonstrate their knowledge would need to retake the class.

This is true but not as bad as you think.

The Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 sequence is absolutely terrible. You should do both Algebra and Geometry every year.
So you are in good shape to spend school time reviewing easy Algebra 1 for fluency, and spend home time learning Geometry (lots of high-quality low-cost options) before getting summer credit

Many of the top students do this. It's also better, pedagogically, for your student to learn at their own pace first, and use the school pace later for review, instead of jumping ahead in school where now they have a high-stakes commitment to keep up with school pace.

This is a strange way to look at school. Where did this idea come from, that school is not for learning but is only for getting high grades? Teachers teach material, kids don't have to prelearn it. Their parents think they should so they preteach it (either through a class or at the kitchen table). But why?

Because of the reality that math is unfortunately taught extremely poorly in American schools, (FCPS not being that different, outside perhaps a few schools and/or teachers). Many parents who realize this then come to the logical conclusion that kids can learn math at home/via enrichment much more thoroughly. It's a sad situation, but there's no easy fix, it's cultural and would likely take generations to fix the way math is taught in schools.

Math is taught just fine if you look at the advanced cohort. The biggest difference compared to international students is how early other countries track students to the trades and away from math.

I don't agree, the advanced cohort in this area has been learning more math from out of school enrichment activities, so you cannot just say that math is taught fine in school. If you want simple proof, all you have to do is look at the worksheets and type of material the children work on in school, and you will quickly realize how bad it is.

Some have and some have not. My kids Advanced Math class has three kids that discuss doing math enrichment, the rest don't or don't discuss it. The math club at his school only has 4 6th graders and only one of them, my kid, does math outside of school. I know two kids who scored in the 99th percentile on the IAAT who have not done any outside math enrichment. One of DS friends who does very well in Advanced Math is very open in thinking it is crazy that he enjoys math competitions and does them for fun.

DS attends RSM and the classes meet just about every stereotype that you can come up with. They are mainly male, mostly Indian, Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. There are probably other Asian countries represented but those are the languages I recognize. The European looking families that I see are speaking in what sounds like Russian or some type of Slavic language.

There are probably schools were there are far more kids in math enrichment, I would guess the ES and MS Centers, so parents at those schools might feel more pressure for their kids to be enrolled in enrichment. There is a cultural element at play and we would be crazy to not admit that. But there are a good number of kids who will never take a math enrichment class and do well in higher level math in school.

My 8th grader is in Geometry. 600 on every math SOL he has ever taken. 99th percentile on IAAT. High A's every quarter in Algebra and Geometry. And has never had any outside enrichment. He just has a mathy brain. Of his 6 closest friends, all of whom are in Geometry in 8th, only one has ever done outside enrichment--he went to Mathnasium in early ES but not since 2nd or 3rd grade. DS's friends who do outside math enrichment are all in Algebra II in 8th grade, either because they did Algebra in 6th (went to the MS for 1st period) or because they took Geometry the summer between 7th and 8th.

How does your son feel about being "behind" some of his friends? Does he wish he took geometry over the summer like they did?

My kid is similar, >570 on all SOL Math tests, 99th percentile on IAAT, high A's every quarter in Honor Algebra 1. He wanted to take summer geometry and I said no. His reasoning? "many of my friends are going to take it this summer so I should take it." My reason? "Geometry is such an important class that no one should rush it if they are planning to be in a STEM field". I teach science in college so I do know a thing or two about math preparation. Some (not a few) students in my science classes have problems with fundamental algebra and geometry. I feel bad as there is not much I could do and honestly it is too late to fix when they are in college. Maybe some of them were pushed to Algrebra/Geometry when they are not ready or took those classes in summer, I do not know. Parents here who are reading this: Math is foundation and this is not a race, think long-term please.

Why not allow him to take it over the summer Conditional on him properly learning it next year? Or why not teach him geometry this year so he could complete it over the summer without worrying about absorbing the material at the fast pace?

Why spend a month of summer doing a math class and not doing things that are relaxing and fun? Geometry in the summer, even for the kids who are strong at math, means 5 days of class for 4 weeks. They have to be online for that class for something like 4 hours a day. They have to complete homework and prepare for tests/quizzes daily.

I know a kid who is missing attending camp with his Scout Troop to take Geometry this summer. What does it get him? It doesn’t improve his chances for attending TJ. So what does it get him? A year more acceleration in math in HS. And that does what for him?

I cannot think of a good reason to take Geometry in the summer. You condense a class into a short time frame. The kids who do well in it are probably kids who took Geometry at RSM or AoPS so they know the material and now they are losing a month of summer to officially take the class.

I agree that it would be better for these kids to take algebra 1 in 7th and give a full year to geo, but I think PP's son would be better off academically for having taken it in the summer and being a year ahead. I'm not sure why PP didn't try to get their son in algebra a year earlier given that they wanted to give a full year to geometry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other option is to have her start taking an online algebra class at home like AOPS or there are plenty of really good homeschool algebra programs. She takes algebra at home while taking pre-algebra/math 7 next year. In 8th she takes honors algebra and gets an easy A since she will have already taken algebra and keeps studying topics into algebra 2.

Then she takes geometry the summer between 8th and 9th. In 9th she has caught up to the students who took algebra in 7th. Except she has taken more algebra without having a gap of a year like the student who took geometry in 8th. And has studied some topics from algebra 2. This worked for my child who then got an A in 9th honors algebra 2 while some other students struggled who were advanced into algebra in 7th.

I think this would require taking geometry at home in 8th grade so that she isn't expected to learn a year's worth of math over the summer. It's also a shame that a student who has already taken algebra and can demonstrate their knowledge would need to retake the class.

This is true but not as bad as you think.

The Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 sequence is absolutely terrible. You should do both Algebra and Geometry every year.
So you are in good shape to spend school time reviewing easy Algebra 1 for fluency, and spend home time learning Geometry (lots of high-quality low-cost options) before getting summer credit

Many of the top students do this. It's also better, pedagogically, for your student to learn at their own pace first, and use the school pace later for review, instead of jumping ahead in school where now they have a high-stakes commitment to keep up with school pace.

This is a strange way to look at school. Where did this idea come from, that school is not for learning but is only for getting high grades? Teachers teach material, kids don't have to prelearn it. Their parents think they should so they preteach it (either through a class or at the kitchen table). But why?

Because of the reality that math is unfortunately taught extremely poorly in American schools, (FCPS not being that different, outside perhaps a few schools and/or teachers). Many parents who realize this then come to the logical conclusion that kids can learn math at home/via enrichment much more thoroughly. It's a sad situation, but there's no easy fix, it's cultural and would likely take generations to fix the way math is taught in schools.

Math is taught just fine if you look at the advanced cohort. The biggest difference compared to international students is how early other countries track students to the trades and away from math.

I don't agree, the advanced cohort in this area has been learning more math from out of school enrichment activities, so you cannot just say that math is taught fine in school. If you want simple proof, all you have to do is look at the worksheets and type of material the children work on in school, and you will quickly realize how bad it is.

Some have and some have not. My kids Advanced Math class has three kids that discuss doing math enrichment, the rest don't or don't discuss it. The math club at his school only has 4 6th graders and only one of them, my kid, does math outside of school. I know two kids who scored in the 99th percentile on the IAAT who have not done any outside math enrichment. One of DS friends who does very well in Advanced Math is very open in thinking it is crazy that he enjoys math competitions and does them for fun.

DS attends RSM and the classes meet just about every stereotype that you can come up with. They are mainly male, mostly Indian, Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. There are probably other Asian countries represented but those are the languages I recognize. The European looking families that I see are speaking in what sounds like Russian or some type of Slavic language.

There are probably schools were there are far more kids in math enrichment, I would guess the ES and MS Centers, so parents at those schools might feel more pressure for their kids to be enrolled in enrichment. There is a cultural element at play and we would be crazy to not admit that. But there are a good number of kids who will never take a math enrichment class and do well in higher level math in school.

My 8th grader is in Geometry. 600 on every math SOL he has ever taken. 99th percentile on IAAT. High A's every quarter in Algebra and Geometry. And has never had any outside enrichment. He just has a mathy brain. Of his 6 closest friends, all of whom are in Geometry in 8th, only one has ever done outside enrichment--he went to Mathnasium in early ES but not since 2nd or 3rd grade. DS's friends who do outside math enrichment are all in Algebra II in 8th grade, either because they did Algebra in 6th (went to the MS for 1st period) or because they took Geometry the summer between 7th and 8th.

How does your son feel about being "behind" some of his friends? Does he wish he took geometry over the summer like they did?

My kid is similar, >570 on all SOL Math tests, 99th percentile on IAAT, high A's every quarter in Honor Algebra 1. He wanted to take summer geometry and I said no. His reasoning? "many of my friends are going to take it this summer so I should take it." My reason? "Geometry is such an important class that no one should rush it if they are planning to be in a STEM field". I teach science in college so I do know a thing or two about math preparation. Some (not a few) students in my science classes have problems with fundamental algebra and geometry. I feel bad as there is not much I could do and honestly it is too late to fix when they are in college. Maybe some of them were pushed to Algrebra/Geometry when they are not ready or took those classes in summer, I do not know. Parents here who are reading this: Math is foundation and this is not a race, think long-term please.

Why not allow him to take it over the summer Conditional on him properly learning it next year? Or why not teach him geometry this year so he could complete it over the summer without worrying about absorbing the material at the fast pace?

Why spend a month of summer doing a math class and not doing things that are relaxing and fun? Geometry in the summer, even for the kids who are strong at math, means 5 days of class for 4 weeks. They have to be online for that class for something like 4 hours a day. They have to complete homework and prepare for tests/quizzes daily.

I know a kid who is missing attending camp with his Scout Troop to take Geometry this summer. What does it get him? It doesn’t improve his chances for attending TJ. So what does it get him? A year more acceleration in math in HS. And that does what for him?

I cannot think of a good reason to take Geometry in the summer. You condense a class into a short time frame. The kids who do well in it are probably kids who took Geometry at RSM or AoPS so they know the material and now they are losing a month of summer to officially take the class.

I agree that it would be better for these kids to take algebra 1 in 7th and give a full year to geo, but I think PP's son would be better off academically for having taken it in the summer and being a year ahead. I'm not sure why PP didn't try to get their son in algebra a year earlier given that they wanted to give a full year to geometry.

Maybe because PP is a troll?

If my kid wanted to do X during summer break, and X was academic, I wouldn't say "No, you have to relax during summers.". I would try to give my kid some input into his summer activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other option is to have her start taking an online algebra class at home like AOPS or there are plenty of really good homeschool algebra programs. She takes algebra at home while taking pre-algebra/math 7 next year. In 8th she takes honors algebra and gets an easy A since she will have already taken algebra and keeps studying topics into algebra 2.

Then she takes geometry the summer between 8th and 9th. In 9th she has caught up to the students who took algebra in 7th. Except she has taken more algebra without having a gap of a year like the student who took geometry in 8th. And has studied some topics from algebra 2. This worked for my child who then got an A in 9th honors algebra 2 while some other students struggled who were advanced into algebra in 7th.

I think this would require taking geometry at home in 8th grade so that she isn't expected to learn a year's worth of math over the summer. It's also a shame that a student who has already taken algebra and can demonstrate their knowledge would need to retake the class.

This is true but not as bad as you think.

The Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 sequence is absolutely terrible. You should do both Algebra and Geometry every year.
So you are in good shape to spend school time reviewing easy Algebra 1 for fluency, and spend home time learning Geometry (lots of high-quality low-cost options) before getting summer credit

Many of the top students do this. It's also better, pedagogically, for your student to learn at their own pace first, and use the school pace later for review, instead of jumping ahead in school where now they have a high-stakes commitment to keep up with school pace.

This is a strange way to look at school. Where did this idea come from, that school is not for learning but is only for getting high grades? Teachers teach material, kids don't have to prelearn it. Their parents think they should so they preteach it (either through a class or at the kitchen table). But why?

Because of the reality that math is unfortunately taught extremely poorly in American schools, (FCPS not being that different, outside perhaps a few schools and/or teachers). Many parents who realize this then come to the logical conclusion that kids can learn math at home/via enrichment much more thoroughly. It's a sad situation, but there's no easy fix, it's cultural and would likely take generations to fix the way math is taught in schools.

Math is taught just fine if you look at the advanced cohort. The biggest difference compared to international students is how early other countries track students to the trades and away from math.

I don't agree, the advanced cohort in this area has been learning more math from out of school enrichment activities, so you cannot just say that math is taught fine in school. If you want simple proof, all you have to do is look at the worksheets and type of material the children work on in school, and you will quickly realize how bad it is.

Some have and some have not. My kids Advanced Math class has three kids that discuss doing math enrichment, the rest don't or don't discuss it. The math club at his school only has 4 6th graders and only one of them, my kid, does math outside of school. I know two kids who scored in the 99th percentile on the IAAT who have not done any outside math enrichment. One of DS friends who does very well in Advanced Math is very open in thinking it is crazy that he enjoys math competitions and does them for fun.

DS attends RSM and the classes meet just about every stereotype that you can come up with. They are mainly male, mostly Indian, Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. There are probably other Asian countries represented but those are the languages I recognize. The European looking families that I see are speaking in what sounds like Russian or some type of Slavic language.

There are probably schools were there are far more kids in math enrichment, I would guess the ES and MS Centers, so parents at those schools might feel more pressure for their kids to be enrolled in enrichment. There is a cultural element at play and we would be crazy to not admit that. But there are a good number of kids who will never take a math enrichment class and do well in higher level math in school.

My 8th grader is in Geometry. 600 on every math SOL he has ever taken. 99th percentile on IAAT. High A's every quarter in Algebra and Geometry. And has never had any outside enrichment. He just has a mathy brain. Of his 6 closest friends, all of whom are in Geometry in 8th, only one has ever done outside enrichment--he went to Mathnasium in early ES but not since 2nd or 3rd grade. DS's friends who do outside math enrichment are all in Algebra II in 8th grade, either because they did Algebra in 6th (went to the MS for 1st period) or because they took Geometry the summer between 7th and 8th.

How does your son feel about being "behind" some of his friends? Does he wish he took geometry over the summer like they did?

My kid is similar, >570 on all SOL Math tests, 99th percentile on IAAT, high A's every quarter in Honor Algebra 1. He wanted to take summer geometry and I said no. His reasoning? "many of my friends are going to take it this summer so I should take it." My reason? "Geometry is such an important class that no one should rush it if they are planning to be in a STEM field". I teach science in college so I do know a thing or two about math preparation. Some (not a few) students in my science classes have problems with fundamental algebra and geometry. I feel bad as there is not much I could do and honestly it is too late to fix when they are in college. Maybe some of them were pushed to Algrebra/Geometry when they are not ready or took those classes in summer, I do not know. Parents here who are reading this: Math is foundation and this is not a race, think long-term please.

Why not allow him to take it over the summer Conditional on him properly learning it next year? Or why not teach him geometry this year so he could complete it over the summer without worrying about absorbing the material at the fast pace?

Why spend a month of summer doing a math class and not doing things that are relaxing and fun? Geometry in the summer, even for the kids who are strong at math, means 5 days of class for 4 weeks. They have to be online for that class for something like 4 hours a day. They have to complete homework and prepare for tests/quizzes daily.

I know a kid who is missing attending camp with his Scout Troop to take Geometry this summer. What does it get him? It doesn’t improve his chances for attending TJ. So what does it get him? A year more acceleration in math in HS. And that does what for him?

I cannot think of a good reason to take Geometry in the summer. You condense a class into a short time frame. The kids who do well in it are probably kids who took Geometry at RSM or AoPS so they know the material and now they are losing a month of summer to officially take the class.

I agree that it would be better for these kids to take algebra 1 in 7th and give a full year to geo, but I think PP's son would be better off academically for having taken it in the summer and being a year ahead. I'm not sure why PP didn't try to get their son in algebra a year earlier given that they wanted to give a full year to geometry.

Maybe because PP is a troll?

If my kid wanted to do X during summer break, and X was academic, I wouldn't say "No, you have to relax during summers.". I would try to give my kid some input into his summer activities.

I would not allow my child to take a year long class during the summer. If my kid fails a class or gets a D or a C and needs to take a class for recovery, then sure. That is the consequence for failing to put in the effort during the school year. But taking a year long math class or language class or English class in a month during the summer? Nope.

And yes, I would suggest that his summer is better spent reading, doing aademic stuff that he finds more fun, and attending things like summer camp with his friends. Or even an academic summer camp where he meets other kids who are interested in the same subjects.

I am not sure why parents think that there is merit to taking a class like Geometry in a month. Cramming in a years worth of material into such a short period of time so that a child can be one year ahead in math at school for no real purpose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other option is to have her start taking an online algebra class at home like AOPS or there are plenty of really good homeschool algebra programs. She takes algebra at home while taking pre-algebra/math 7 next year. In 8th she takes honors algebra and gets an easy A since she will have already taken algebra and keeps studying topics into algebra 2.

Then she takes geometry the summer between 8th and 9th. In 9th she has caught up to the students who took algebra in 7th. Except she has taken more algebra without having a gap of a year like the student who took geometry in 8th. And has studied some topics from algebra 2. This worked for my child who then got an A in 9th honors algebra 2 while some other students struggled who were advanced into algebra in 7th.

I think this would require taking geometry at home in 8th grade so that she isn't expected to learn a year's worth of math over the summer. It's also a shame that a student who has already taken algebra and can demonstrate their knowledge would need to retake the class.

This is true but not as bad as you think.

The Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 sequence is absolutely terrible. You should do both Algebra and Geometry every year.
So you are in good shape to spend school time reviewing easy Algebra 1 for fluency, and spend home time learning Geometry (lots of high-quality low-cost options) before getting summer credit

Many of the top students do this. It's also better, pedagogically, for your student to learn at their own pace first, and use the school pace later for review, instead of jumping ahead in school where now they have a high-stakes commitment to keep up with school pace.

This is a strange way to look at school. Where did this idea come from, that school is not for learning but is only for getting high grades? Teachers teach material, kids don't have to prelearn it. Their parents think they should so they preteach it (either through a class or at the kitchen table). But why?

Because of the reality that math is unfortunately taught extremely poorly in American schools, (FCPS not being that different, outside perhaps a few schools and/or teachers). Many parents who realize this then come to the logical conclusion that kids can learn math at home/via enrichment much more thoroughly. It's a sad situation, but there's no easy fix, it's cultural and would likely take generations to fix the way math is taught in schools.

Math is taught just fine if you look at the advanced cohort. The biggest difference compared to international students is how early other countries track students to the trades and away from math.

I don't agree, the advanced cohort in this area has been learning more math from out of school enrichment activities, so you cannot just say that math is taught fine in school. If you want simple proof, all you have to do is look at the worksheets and type of material the children work on in school, and you will quickly realize how bad it is.

Some have and some have not. My kids Advanced Math class has three kids that discuss doing math enrichment, the rest don't or don't discuss it. The math club at his school only has 4 6th graders and only one of them, my kid, does math outside of school. I know two kids who scored in the 99th percentile on the IAAT who have not done any outside math enrichment. One of DS friends who does very well in Advanced Math is very open in thinking it is crazy that he enjoys math competitions and does them for fun.

DS attends RSM and the classes meet just about every stereotype that you can come up with. They are mainly male, mostly Indian, Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. There are probably other Asian countries represented but those are the languages I recognize. The European looking families that I see are speaking in what sounds like Russian or some type of Slavic language.

There are probably schools were there are far more kids in math enrichment, I would guess the ES and MS Centers, so parents at those schools might feel more pressure for their kids to be enrolled in enrichment. There is a cultural element at play and we would be crazy to not admit that. But there are a good number of kids who will never take a math enrichment class and do well in higher level math in school.

My 8th grader is in Geometry. 600 on every math SOL he has ever taken. 99th percentile on IAAT. High A's every quarter in Algebra and Geometry. And has never had any outside enrichment. He just has a mathy brain. Of his 6 closest friends, all of whom are in Geometry in 8th, only one has ever done outside enrichment--he went to Mathnasium in early ES but not since 2nd or 3rd grade. DS's friends who do outside math enrichment are all in Algebra II in 8th grade, either because they did Algebra in 6th (went to the MS for 1st period) or because they took Geometry the summer between 7th and 8th.

How does your son feel about being "behind" some of his friends? Does he wish he took geometry over the summer like they did?

My kid is similar, >570 on all SOL Math tests, 99th percentile on IAAT, high A's every quarter in Honor Algebra 1. He wanted to take summer geometry and I said no. His reasoning? "many of my friends are going to take it this summer so I should take it." My reason? "Geometry is such an important class that no one should rush it if they are planning to be in a STEM field". I teach science in college so I do know a thing or two about math preparation. Some (not a few) students in my science classes have problems with fundamental algebra and geometry. I feel bad as there is not much I could do and honestly it is too late to fix when they are in college. Maybe some of them were pushed to Algrebra/Geometry when they are not ready or took those classes in summer, I do not know. Parents here who are reading this: Math is foundation and this is not a race, think long-term please.

Why not allow him to take it over the summer Conditional on him properly learning it next year? Or why not teach him geometry this year so he could complete it over the summer without worrying about absorbing the material at the fast pace?

Why spend a month of summer doing a math class and not doing things that are relaxing and fun? Geometry in the summer, even for the kids who are strong at math, means 5 days of class for 4 weeks. They have to be online for that class for something like 4 hours a day. They have to complete homework and prepare for tests/quizzes daily.

I know a kid who is missing attending camp with his Scout Troop to take Geometry this summer. What does it get him? It doesn’t improve his chances for attending TJ. So what does it get him? A year more acceleration in math in HS. And that does what for him?

I cannot think of a good reason to take Geometry in the summer. You condense a class into a short time frame. The kids who do well in it are probably kids who took Geometry at RSM or AoPS so they know the material and now they are losing a month of summer to officially take the class.

I agree that it would be better for these kids to take algebra 1 in 7th and give a full year to geo, but I think PP's son would be better off academically for having taken it in the summer and being a year ahead. I'm not sure why PP didn't try to get their son in algebra a year earlier given that they wanted to give a full year to geometry.

Maybe because PP is a troll?

If my kid wanted to do X during summer break, and X was academic, I wouldn't say "No, you have to relax during summers.". I would try to give my kid some input into his summer activities.

I would not allow my child to take a year long class during the summer. If my kid fails a class or gets a D or a C and needs to take a class for recovery, then sure. That is the consequence for failing to put in the effort during the school year. But taking a year long math class or language class or English class in a month during the summer? Nope.

And yes, I would suggest that his summer is better spent reading, doing aademic stuff that he finds more fun, and attending things like summer camp with his friends. Or even an academic summer camp where he meets other kids who are interested in the same subjects.

I am not sure why parents think that there is merit to taking a class like Geometry in a month. Cramming in a years worth of material into such a short period of time so that a child can be one year ahead in math at school for no real purpose.

It's not really one year's worth. The kids taking it would know several units already. Perimeter/area/angles add to 180,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other option is to have her start taking an online algebra class at home like AOPS or there are plenty of really good homeschool algebra programs. She takes algebra at home while taking pre-algebra/math 7 next year. In 8th she takes honors algebra and gets an easy A since she will have already taken algebra and keeps studying topics into algebra 2.

Then she takes geometry the summer between 8th and 9th. In 9th she has caught up to the students who took algebra in 7th. Except she has taken more algebra without having a gap of a year like the student who took geometry in 8th. And has studied some topics from algebra 2. This worked for my child who then got an A in 9th honors algebra 2 while some other students struggled who were advanced into algebra in 7th.

I think this would require taking geometry at home in 8th grade so that she isn't expected to learn a year's worth of math over the summer. It's also a shame that a student who has already taken algebra and can demonstrate their knowledge would need to retake the class.

This is true but not as bad as you think.

The Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 sequence is absolutely terrible. You should do both Algebra and Geometry every year.
So you are in good shape to spend school time reviewing easy Algebra 1 for fluency, and spend home time learning Geometry (lots of high-quality low-cost options) before getting summer credit

Many of the top students do this. It's also better, pedagogically, for your student to learn at their own pace first, and use the school pace later for review, instead of jumping ahead in school where now they have a high-stakes commitment to keep up with school pace.

This is a strange way to look at school. Where did this idea come from, that school is not for learning but is only for getting high grades? Teachers teach material, kids don't have to prelearn it. Their parents think they should so they preteach it (either through a class or at the kitchen table). But why?

Because of the reality that math is unfortunately taught extremely poorly in American schools, (FCPS not being that different, outside perhaps a few schools and/or teachers). Many parents who realize this then come to the logical conclusion that kids can learn math at home/via enrichment much more thoroughly. It's a sad situation, but there's no easy fix, it's cultural and would likely take generations to fix the way math is taught in schools.

Math is taught just fine if you look at the advanced cohort. The biggest difference compared to international students is how early other countries track students to the trades and away from math.

I don't agree, the advanced cohort in this area has been learning more math from out of school enrichment activities, so you cannot just say that math is taught fine in school. If you want simple proof, all you have to do is look at the worksheets and type of material the children work on in school, and you will quickly realize how bad it is.

Some have and some have not. My kids Advanced Math class has three kids that discuss doing math enrichment, the rest don't or don't discuss it. The math club at his school only has 4 6th graders and only one of them, my kid, does math outside of school. I know two kids who scored in the 99th percentile on the IAAT who have not done any outside math enrichment. One of DS friends who does very well in Advanced Math is very open in thinking it is crazy that he enjoys math competitions and does them for fun.

DS attends RSM and the classes meet just about every stereotype that you can come up with. They are mainly male, mostly Indian, Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. There are probably other Asian countries represented but those are the languages I recognize. The European looking families that I see are speaking in what sounds like Russian or some type of Slavic language.

There are probably schools were there are far more kids in math enrichment, I would guess the ES and MS Centers, so parents at those schools might feel more pressure for their kids to be enrolled in enrichment. There is a cultural element at play and we would be crazy to not admit that. But there are a good number of kids who will never take a math enrichment class and do well in higher level math in school.

My 8th grader is in Geometry. 600 on every math SOL he has ever taken. 99th percentile on IAAT. High A's every quarter in Algebra and Geometry. And has never had any outside enrichment. He just has a mathy brain. Of his 6 closest friends, all of whom are in Geometry in 8th, only one has ever done outside enrichment--he went to Mathnasium in early ES but not since 2nd or 3rd grade. DS's friends who do outside math enrichment are all in Algebra II in 8th grade, either because they did Algebra in 6th (went to the MS for 1st period) or because they took Geometry the summer between 7th and 8th.

How does your son feel about being "behind" some of his friends? Does he wish he took geometry over the summer like they did?

My kid is similar, >570 on all SOL Math tests, 99th percentile on IAAT, high A's every quarter in Honor Algebra 1. He wanted to take summer geometry and I said no. His reasoning? "many of my friends are going to take it this summer so I should take it." My reason? "Geometry is such an important class that no one should rush it if they are planning to be in a STEM field". I teach science in college so I do know a thing or two about math preparation. Some (not a few) students in my science classes have problems with fundamental algebra and geometry. I feel bad as there is not much I could do and honestly it is too late to fix when they are in college. Maybe some of them were pushed to Algrebra/Geometry when they are not ready or took those classes in summer, I do not know. Parents here who are reading this: Math is foundation and this is not a race, think long-term please.

Why not allow him to take it over the summer Conditional on him properly learning it next year? Or why not teach him geometry this year so he could complete it over the summer without worrying about absorbing the material at the fast pace?

Why spend a month of summer doing a math class and not doing things that are relaxing and fun? Geometry in the summer, even for the kids who are strong at math, means 5 days of class for 4 weeks. They have to be online for that class for something like 4 hours a day. They have to complete homework and prepare for tests/quizzes daily.

I know a kid who is missing attending camp with his Scout Troop to take Geometry this summer. What does it get him? It doesn’t improve his chances for attending TJ. So what does it get him? A year more acceleration in math in HS. And that does what for him?

I cannot think of a good reason to take Geometry in the summer. You condense a class into a short time frame. The kids who do well in it are probably kids who took Geometry at RSM or AoPS so they know the material and now they are losing a month of summer to officially take the class.

I agree that it would be better for these kids to take algebra 1 in 7th and give a full year to geo, but I think PP's son would be better off academically for having taken it in the summer and being a year ahead. I'm not sure why PP didn't try to get their son in algebra a year earlier given that they wanted to give a full year to geometry.

Maybe because PP is a troll?

If my kid wanted to do X during summer break, and X was academic, I wouldn't say "No, you have to relax during summers.". I would try to give my kid some input into his summer activities.

I would not allow my child to take a year long class during the summer. If my kid fails a class or gets a D or a C and needs to take a class for recovery, then sure. That is the consequence for failing to put in the effort during the school year. But taking a year long math class or language class or English class in a month during the summer? Nope.

And yes, I would suggest that his summer is better spent reading, doing aademic stuff that he finds more fun, and attending things like summer camp with his friends. Or even an academic summer camp where he meets other kids who are interested in the same subjects.

I am not sure why parents think that there is merit to taking a class like Geometry in a month. Cramming in a years worth of material into such a short period of time so that a child can be one year ahead in math at school for no real purpose.

Just because your kid is a slow learner doesnt mean everyone should slow down. You keep repeating this nonsense over and over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other option is to have her start taking an online algebra class at home like AOPS or there are plenty of really good homeschool algebra programs. She takes algebra at home while taking pre-algebra/math 7 next year. In 8th she takes honors algebra and gets an easy A since she will have already taken algebra and keeps studying topics into algebra 2.

Then she takes geometry the summer between 8th and 9th. In 9th she has caught up to the students who took algebra in 7th. Except she has taken more algebra without having a gap of a year like the student who took geometry in 8th. And has studied some topics from algebra 2. This worked for my child who then got an A in 9th honors algebra 2 while some other students struggled who were advanced into algebra in 7th.

I think this would require taking geometry at home in 8th grade so that she isn't expected to learn a year's worth of math over the summer. It's also a shame that a student who has already taken algebra and can demonstrate their knowledge would need to retake the class.

This is true but not as bad as you think.

The Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 sequence is absolutely terrible. You should do both Algebra and Geometry every year.
So you are in good shape to spend school time reviewing easy Algebra 1 for fluency, and spend home time learning Geometry (lots of high-quality low-cost options) before getting summer credit

Many of the top students do this. It's also better, pedagogically, for your student to learn at their own pace first, and use the school pace later for review, instead of jumping ahead in school where now they have a high-stakes commitment to keep up with school pace.

This is a strange way to look at school. Where did this idea come from, that school is not for learning but is only for getting high grades? Teachers teach material, kids don't have to prelearn it. Their parents think they should so they preteach it (either through a class or at the kitchen table). But why?

Because of the reality that math is unfortunately taught extremely poorly in American schools, (FCPS not being that different, outside perhaps a few schools and/or teachers). Many parents who realize this then come to the logical conclusion that kids can learn math at home/via enrichment much more thoroughly. It's a sad situation, but there's no easy fix, it's cultural and would likely take generations to fix the way math is taught in schools.

Math is taught just fine if you look at the advanced cohort. The biggest difference compared to international students is how early other countries track students to the trades and away from math.

I don't agree, the advanced cohort in this area has been learning more math from out of school enrichment activities, so you cannot just say that math is taught fine in school. If you want simple proof, all you have to do is look at the worksheets and type of material the children work on in school, and you will quickly realize how bad it is.

Some have and some have not. My kids Advanced Math class has three kids that discuss doing math enrichment, the rest don't or don't discuss it. The math club at his school only has 4 6th graders and only one of them, my kid, does math outside of school. I know two kids who scored in the 99th percentile on the IAAT who have not done any outside math enrichment. One of DS friends who does very well in Advanced Math is very open in thinking it is crazy that he enjoys math competitions and does them for fun.

DS attends RSM and the classes meet just about every stereotype that you can come up with. They are mainly male, mostly Indian, Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. There are probably other Asian countries represented but those are the languages I recognize. The European looking families that I see are speaking in what sounds like Russian or some type of Slavic language.

There are probably schools were there are far more kids in math enrichment, I would guess the ES and MS Centers, so parents at those schools might feel more pressure for their kids to be enrolled in enrichment. There is a cultural element at play and we would be crazy to not admit that. But there are a good number of kids who will never take a math enrichment class and do well in higher level math in school.

My 8th grader is in Geometry. 600 on every math SOL he has ever taken. 99th percentile on IAAT. High A's every quarter in Algebra and Geometry. And has never had any outside enrichment. He just has a mathy brain. Of his 6 closest friends, all of whom are in Geometry in 8th, only one has ever done outside enrichment--he went to Mathnasium in early ES but not since 2nd or 3rd grade. DS's friends who do outside math enrichment are all in Algebra II in 8th grade, either because they did Algebra in 6th (went to the MS for 1st period) or because they took Geometry the summer between 7th and 8th.

How does your son feel about being "behind" some of his friends? Does he wish he took geometry over the summer like they did?

My kid is similar, >570 on all SOL Math tests, 99th percentile on IAAT, high A's every quarter in Honor Algebra 1. He wanted to take summer geometry and I said no. His reasoning? "many of my friends are going to take it this summer so I should take it." My reason? "Geometry is such an important class that no one should rush it if they are planning to be in a STEM field". I teach science in college so I do know a thing or two about math preparation. Some (not a few) students in my science classes have problems with fundamental algebra and geometry. I feel bad as there is not much I could do and honestly it is too late to fix when they are in college. Maybe some of them were pushed to Algrebra/Geometry when they are not ready or took those classes in summer, I do not know. Parents here who are reading this: Math is foundation and this is not a race, think long-term please.

Why not allow him to take it over the summer Conditional on him properly learning it next year? Or why not teach him geometry this year so he could complete it over the summer without worrying about absorbing the material at the fast pace?

Why spend a month of summer doing a math class and not doing things that are relaxing and fun? Geometry in the summer, even for the kids who are strong at math, means 5 days of class for 4 weeks. They have to be online for that class for something like 4 hours a day. They have to complete homework and prepare for tests/quizzes daily.

I know a kid who is missing attending camp with his Scout Troop to take Geometry this summer. What does it get him? It doesn’t improve his chances for attending TJ. So what does it get him? A year more acceleration in math in HS. And that does what for him?

I cannot think of a good reason to take Geometry in the summer. You condense a class into a short time frame. The kids who do well in it are probably kids who took Geometry at RSM or AoPS so they know the material and now they are losing a month of summer to officially take the class.

I agree that it would be better for these kids to take algebra 1 in 7th and give a full year to geo, but I think PP's son would be better off academically for having taken it in the summer and being a year ahead. I'm not sure why PP didn't try to get their son in algebra a year earlier given that they wanted to give a full year to geometry.

Maybe because PP is a troll?

If my kid wanted to do X during summer break, and X was academic, I wouldn't say "No, you have to relax during summers.". I would try to give my kid some input into his summer activities.

I would not allow my child to take a year long class during the summer. If my kid fails a class or gets a D or a C and needs to take a class for recovery, then sure. That is the consequence for failing to put in the effort during the school year. But taking a year long math class or language class or English class in a month during the summer? Nope.

And yes, I would suggest that his summer is better spent reading, doing aademic stuff that he finds more fun, and attending things like summer camp with his friends. Or even an academic summer camp where he meets other kids who are interested in the same subjects.

I am not sure why parents think that there is merit to taking a class like Geometry in a month. Cramming in a years worth of material into such a short period of time so that a child can be one year ahead in math at school for no real purpose.

Just because your kid is a slow learner doesnt mean everyone should slow down. You keep repeating this nonsense over and over.

If students accelerate too much, including taking summer courses, how will we ever achieve equity in math enrollment? Parents of advanced kids, please consider the slow leaners and how they might be left behind before enrolling your child in accelerated math courses. Equity is important for all of us.

[Anonymous]

I am the PP who said no to my son for summer geometry. In addition to teaching science in college, I also know quite a few friends' kids who took summer geometry. Overall, miserable experience - no one liked it. I actually want my son enjoy and like math, I want him to be great at geometry rather than checking a box. He also does competitive sports so we have other things planned for summer. I do not see any benefit of him taking geometry in summer. However, I understand some parents want to do this, possible for very good reasons. It might work well for your child. I share my story here because I have learned a lot from this board, I would like to give back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other option is to have her start taking an online algebra class at home like AOPS or there are plenty of really good homeschool algebra programs. She takes algebra at home while taking pre-algebra/math 7 next year. In 8th she takes honors algebra and gets an easy A since she will have already taken algebra and keeps studying topics into algebra 2.

Then she takes geometry the summer between 8th and 9th. In 9th she has caught up to the students who took algebra in 7th. Except she has taken more algebra without having a gap of a year like the student who took geometry in 8th. And has studied some topics from algebra 2. This worked for my child who then got an A in 9th honors algebra 2 while some other students struggled who were advanced into algebra in 7th.

I think this would require taking geometry at home in 8th grade so that she isn't expected to learn a year's worth of math over the summer. It's also a shame that a student who has already taken algebra and can demonstrate their knowledge would need to retake the class.

This is true but not as bad as you think.

The Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 sequence is absolutely terrible. You should do both Algebra and Geometry every year.
So you are in good shape to spend school time reviewing easy Algebra 1 for fluency, and spend home time learning Geometry (lots of high-quality low-cost options) before getting summer credit

Many of the top students do this. It's also better, pedagogically, for your student to learn at their own pace first, and use the school pace later for review, instead of jumping ahead in school where now they have a high-stakes commitment to keep up with school pace.

This is a strange way to look at school. Where did this idea come from, that school is not for learning but is only for getting high grades? Teachers teach material, kids don't have to prelearn it. Their parents think they should so they preteach it (either through a class or at the

kitchen table). But why?

Because of the reality that math is unfortunately taught extremely poorly in American schools, (FCPS not being that different, outside perhaps a few schools and/or teachers). Many parents who realize this then come to the logical conclusion that kids can learn math at home/via enrichment much more thoroughly. It's a sad situation, but there's no easy fix, it's cultural and would likely take generations to fix the way math is taught in schools.

Math is taught just fine if you look at the advanced cohort. The biggest difference compared to international students is how early other countries track students to the trades and away from math.

I don't agree, the advanced cohort in this area has been learning more math from out of school enrichment activities, so you cannot just say that math is taught fine in school. If you want simple proof, all you have to do is look at the worksheets and type of material the children work on in school, and you will quickly realize how bad it is.

Some have and some have not. My kids Advanced Math class has three kids that discuss doing math enrichment, the rest don't or don't discuss it. The math club at his school only has 4 6th graders and only one of them, my kid, does math outside of school. I know two kids who scored in the 99th percentile on the IAAT who have not done any outside math enrichment. One of DS friends who does very well in Advanced Math is very open in thinking it is crazy that he enjoys math competitions and does them for fun.

DS attends RSM and the classes meet just about every stereotype that you can come up with. They are mainly male, mostly Indian, Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. There are probably other Asian countries represented but those are the languages I recognize. The European looking families that I see are speaking in what sounds like Russian or some type of Slavic language.

There are probably schools were there are far more kids in math enrichment, I would guess the ES and MS Centers, so parents at those schools might feel more pressure for their kids to be enrolled in enrichment. There is a cultural element at play and we would be crazy to not admit that. But there are a good number of kids who will never take a math enrichment class and do well in higher level math in school.

My 8th grader is in Geometry. 600 on every math SOL he has ever taken. 99th percentile on IAAT. High A's every quarter in Algebra and Geometry. And has never had any outside enrichment. He just has a mathy brain. Of his 6 closest friends, all of whom are in Geometry in 8th, only one has ever done outside enrichment--he went to Mathnasium in early ES but not since 2nd or 3rd grade. DS's friends who do outside math enrichment are all in Algebra II in 8th grade, either because they did Algebra in 6th (went to the MS for 1st period) or because they took Geometry the summer between 7th and 8th.

How does your son feel about being "behind" some of his friends? Does he wish he took geometry over the summer like they did?

My kid is similar, >570 on all SOL Math tests, 99th percentile on IAAT, high A's every quarter in Honor Algebra 1. He wanted to take summer geometry and I said no. His reasoning? "many of my friends are going to take it this summer so I should take it." My reason? "Geometry is such an important class that no one should rush it if they are planning to be in a STEM field". I teach science in college so I do know a thing or two about math preparation. Some (not a few) students in my science classes have problems with fundamental algebra and geometry. I feel bad as there is not much I could do and honestly it is too late to fix when they are in college. Maybe some of them were pushed to Algrebra/Geometry when they are not ready or took those classes in summer, I do not know. Parents here who are reading this: Math is foundation and this is not a race, think long-term please.

Why not allow him to take it over the summer Conditional on him properly learning it next year? Or why not teach him geometry this year so he could complete it over the summer without worrying about absorbing the material at the fast pace?

Why spend a month of summer doing a math class and not doing things that are relaxing and fun? Geometry in the summer, even for the kids who are strong at math, means 5 days of class for 4 weeks. They have to be online for that class for something like 4 hours a day. They have to complete homework and prepare for tests/quizzes daily.

I know a kid who is missing attending camp with his Scout Troop to take Geometry this summer. What does it get him? It doesn’t improve his chances for attending TJ. So what does it get him? A year more acceleration in math in HS. And that does what for him?

I cannot think of a good reason to take Geometry in the summer. You condense a class into a short time frame. The kids who do well in it are probably kids who took Geometry at RSM or AoPS so they know the material and now they are losing a month of summer to officially take the class.

I agree that it would be better for these kids to take algebra 1 in 7th and give a full year to geo, but I think PP's son would be better off academically for having taken it in the summer and being a year ahead. I'm not sure why PP didn't try to get their son in algebra a year earlier given that they wanted to give a full year to geometry.

Maybe because PP is a troll?

If my kid wanted to do X during summer break, and X was academic, I wouldn't say "No, you have to relax during summers.". I would try to give my kid some input into his summer activities.

I would not allow my child to take a year long class during the summer. If my kid fails a class or gets a D or a C and needs to take a class for recovery, then sure. That is the consequence for failing to put in the effort during the school year. But taking a year long math class or language class or English class in a month during the summer? Nope.

And yes, I would suggest that his summer is better spent reading, doing aademic stuff that he finds more fun, and attending things like summer camp with his friends. Or even an academic summer camp where he meets other kids who are interested in the same subjects.

I am not sure why parents think that there is merit to taking a class like Geometry in a month. Cramming in a years worth of material into such a short period of time so that a child can be one year ahead in math at school for no real purpose.

Just because your kid is a slow learner doesnt mean everyone should slow down. You keep repeating this nonsense over and over.

What makes you think my kid is a slow learner? I said the only time I would consider summer school for a year long class was if it was to recover a grade. I didn't say that he had done that.

You are welcome to let your kid do what you want. I think it is unnecessary. Geometry is a class that is used in a wide variety of classes in HS and college. Cramming it into one month is likely to lead to issues for your child. I suppose I understand it if kids have done the 2 year geometry program through RSM or whatever the AoPS equivalent is because the kids will have already learned the material. Personally, I think having the full summer to relax and enjoy is more important than taking an extra math class in high school. I know the kid missing Scout Camp to take Geometry is disappointed to be missing camp. For what?

[Anonymous]

It is two months not one month. Compared to 9/10 months. The classes are every other day in regular school year, so you are down to a ratio of 2-1 or 2.5-1. This is quite doable considering there are no other classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP who said no to my son for summer geometry. In addition to teaching science in college, I also know quite a few friends' kids who took summer geometry. Overall, miserable experience - no one liked it. I actually want my son enjoy and like math, I want him to be great at geometry rather than checking a box. He also does competitive sports so we have other things planned for summer. I do not see any benefit of him taking geometry in summer. However, I understand some parents want to do this, possible for very good reasons. It might work well for your child. I share my story here because I have learned a lot from this board, I would like to give back.

same here, my child is a slow learner, and I would never enroll them in summer geometry. It is likely there are hundreds, maybe even thousands, of FCPS kids who could excel in their accelerated math journey by taking summer geometry. However, I have an itch to come here and discourage other parents from enrolling their children in summer geometry. I sought help from a mental health care professional, and they helped me understand that I have a compulsive parenting comparison disorder. They also pointed out that I never encourage other advanced kids to take on accelerated math, even when it likely is within their capability, but take liberty in advising others to slow other kids down to my own child's pace.