Can ask for a placement test into Algebra 1 in 7th grade in middle school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. The IAAT is the placement test.

If she is attending a lower performing non-center school, there is a chance that they will take kids in the high 80s to have the minimum number of 8th graders the following year to justify a geometry class. (You must have at least 8 students to staff a class). If she is attending a center school or a school that typically has 15+ 7th graders in algebra, there is no chance.

--MS algebra teacher

This is not correct. You can contact the school directly and tell the admin you want your child in Algebra. They evaluate her (no test) profile and if agreeable, give you a form.

Depends on the school. I have taught at 4 FCPS schools, and only 1 was willing to fudge numbers. (It was one where typically only 3-4 7th graders officially qualified for algebra 1 each year) The other 3 held strict to the requirements.

It is true at Cooper, Thoreau and LJMS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. The IAAT is the placement test.

If she is attending a lower performing non-center school, there is a chance that they will take kids in the high 80s to have the minimum number of 8th graders the following year to justify a geometry class. (You must have at least 8 students to staff a class). If she is attending a center school or a school that typically has 15+ 7th graders in algebra, there is no chance.

--MS algebra teacher

We moved to a low performing school with the hopes of getting an automatic entry into TJ. But having enough students interested in enrolling in geometry to justify class is an issue. Bad decision to chase the 1.5% quota per school and relocate here.

Precisely why the new system is garbage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. The IAAT is the placement test.

If she is attending a lower performing non-center school, there is a chance that they will take kids in the high 80s to have the minimum number of 8th graders the following year to justify a geometry class. (You must have at least 8 students to staff a class). If she is attending a center school or a school that typically has 15+ 7th graders in algebra, there is no chance.

--MS algebra teacher

This is not correct. You can contact the school directly and tell the admin you want your child in Algebra. They evaluate her (no test) profile and if agreeable, give you a form.

Depends on the school. I have taught at 4 FCPS schools, and only 1 was willing to fudge numbers. (It was one where typically only 3-4 7th graders officially qualified for algebra 1 each year) The other 3 held strict to the requirements.

Why would you tell the poster it’s not possible then rather than saying it depends on the school? It isn’t “fudging” the numbers. It’s a placement by the school at the parent’s request.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. The IAAT is the placement test.

If she is attending a lower performing non-center school, there is a chance that they will take kids in the high 80s to have the minimum number of 8th graders the following year to justify a geometry class. (You must have at least 8 students to staff a class). If she is attending a center school or a school that typically has 15+ 7th graders in algebra, there is no chance.

--MS algebra teacher

We moved to a low performing school with the hopes of getting an automatic entry into TJ. But having enough students interested in enrolling in geometry to justify class is an issue. Bad decision to chase the 1.5% quota per school and relocate here.

What school? We're in a school that the VDOE lists as needing support. There are multiple sections of 7th grade algebra

that's interesting. needing support, but multiple 7th grade algebra. what school is this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. The IAAT is the placement test.

If she is attending a lower performing non-center school, there is a chance that they will take kids in the high 80s to have the minimum number of 8th graders the following year to justify a geometry class. (You must have at least 8 students to staff a class). If she is attending a center school or a school that typically has 15+ 7th graders in algebra, there is no chance.

--MS algebra teacher

We moved to a low performing school with the hopes of getting an automatic entry into TJ. But having enough students interested in enrolling in geometry to justify class is an issue. Bad decision to chase the 1.5% quota per school and relocate here.

What school? We're in a school that the VDOE lists as needing support. There are multiple sections of 7th grade algebra

that's interesting. needing support, but multiple 7th grade algebra. what school is this?

sandburg

[Anonymous]

Running the numbers at the VA DOE SOL Score site:

There were 1,680 7th graders who took Algebra 1, 1,158 passed advanced, 514 passed, and 8 failed the SOL. Centers are bolded. Center schools will pull students from base MS whihc will explain why some base schools have a lot fewer kids in Algebra 1, particularly those feeding Carson, Longfellow, Frost, Kimer, and Cooper.

Carson Middle 7 Algebra I 228
Longfellow Middle 7 Algebra I 166
Frost Middle 7 Algebra I 128
Kilmer Middle 7 Algebra I 128
Rocky Run Middle 7 Algebra I 128
Cooper Middle 7 Algebra I 125
Thoreau Middle 7 Algebra I 89
Johnson Middle 7 Algebra I 87
Lake Braddock 7 Algebra I 78
Jackson Middle 7 Algebra I 68
Glasgow Middle 7 Algebra I 62
Twain Middle 7 Algebra I 61
Irving Middle 7 Algebra I 51
Hughes Middle 7 Algebra I 47
Sandburg Middle 7 Algebra I 41
Robinson Secondary 7 Algebra I 36
South County Middle 7 Algebra I 35
Franklin Middle 7 Algebra I 27
Holmes Middle 7 Algebra I 23
Liberty Middle 7 Algebra I 22
Whitman Middle 7 Algebra I 18
Hayfield Secondary 7 Algebra I 14
Herndon Middle 7 Algebra I 11
Key Middle 7 Algebra I <
Poe Middle 7 Algebra I <
Stone Middle 7 Algebra I <

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other option is to have her start taking an online algebra class at home like AOPS or there are plenty of really good homeschool algebra programs. She takes algebra at home while taking pre-algebra/math 7 next year. In 8th she takes honors algebra and gets an easy A since she will have already taken algebra and keeps studying topics into algebra 2.

Then she takes geometry the summer between 8th and 9th. In 9th she has caught up to the students who took algebra in 7th. Except she has taken more algebra without having a gap of a year like the student who took geometry in 8th. And has studied some topics from algebra 2. This worked for my child who then got an A in 9th honors algebra 2 while some other students struggled who were advanced into algebra in 7th.

I think this would require taking geometry at home in 8th grade so that she isn't expected to learn a year's worth of math over the summer. It's also a shame that a student who has already taken algebra and can demonstrate their knowledge would need to retake the class.

This is true but not as bad as you think.

The Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 sequence is absolutely terrible. You should do both Algebra and Geometry every year.
So you are in good shape to spend school time reviewing easy Algebra 1 for fluency, and spend home time learning Geometry (lots of high-quality low-cost options) before getting summer credit

Many of the top students do this. It's also better, pedagogically, for your student to learn at their own pace first, and use the school pace later for review, instead of jumping ahead in school where now they have a high-stakes commitment to keep up with school pace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Running the numbers at the VA DOE SOL Score site:

There were 1,680 7th graders who took Algebra 1, 1,158 passed advanced, 514 passed, and 8 failed the SOL. Centers are bolded. Center schools will pull students from base MS whihc will explain why some base schools have a lot fewer kids in Algebra 1, particularly those feeding Carson, Longfellow, Frost, Kimer, and Cooper.

Carson Middle 7 Algebra I 228
Longfellow Middle 7 Algebra I 166
Frost Middle 7 Algebra I 128
Kilmer Middle 7 Algebra I 128
Rocky Run Middle 7 Algebra I 128
Cooper Middle 7 Algebra I 125
Thoreau Middle 7 Algebra I 89
Johnson Middle 7 Algebra I 87
Lake Braddock 7 Algebra I 78
Jackson Middle 7 Algebra I 68
Glasgow Middle 7 Algebra I 62
Twain Middle 7 Algebra I 61
Irving Middle 7 Algebra I 51
Hughes Middle 7 Algebra I 47
Sandburg Middle 7 Algebra I 41
Robinson Secondary 7 Algebra I 36
South County Middle 7 Algebra I 35
Franklin Middle 7 Algebra I 27
Holmes Middle 7 Algebra I 23
Liberty Middle 7 Algebra I 22
Whitman Middle 7 Algebra I 18
Hayfield Secondary 7 Algebra I 14
Herndon Middle 7 Algebra I 11
Key Middle 7 Algebra I <
Poe Middle 7 Algebra I <
Stone Middle 7 Algebra I <

The fact that the vast majority pass advanced or passed implies the existing cutoffs do a good job identifying kids who will do well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other option is to have her start taking an online algebra class at home like AOPS or there are plenty of really good homeschool algebra programs. She takes algebra at home while taking pre-algebra/math 7 next year. In 8th she takes honors algebra and gets an easy A since she will have already taken algebra and keeps studying topics into algebra 2.

Then she takes geometry the summer between 8th and 9th. In 9th she has caught up to the students who took algebra in 7th. Except she has taken more algebra without having a gap of a year like the student who took geometry in 8th. And has studied some topics from algebra 2. This worked for my child who then got an A in 9th honors algebra 2 while some other students struggled who were advanced into algebra in 7th.

I think this would require taking geometry at home in 8th grade so that she isn't expected to learn a year's worth of math over the summer. It's also a shame that a student who has already taken algebra and can demonstrate their knowledge would need to retake the class.

This is true but not as bad as you think.

The Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 sequence is absolutely terrible. You should do both Algebra and Geometry every year.
So you are in good shape to spend school time reviewing easy Algebra 1 for fluency, and spend home time learning Geometry (lots of high-quality low-cost options) before getting summer credit

Many of the top students do this. It's also better, pedagogically, for your student to learn at their own pace first, and use the school pace later for review, instead of jumping ahead in school where now they have a high-stakes commitment to keep up with school pace.

This is a strange way to look at school. Where did this idea come from, that school is not for learning but is only for getting high grades? Teachers teach material, kids don't have to prelearn it. Their parents think they should so they preteach it (either through a class or at the kitchen table). But why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other option is to have her start taking an online algebra class at home like AOPS or there are plenty of really good homeschool algebra programs. She takes algebra at home while taking pre-algebra/math 7 next year. In 8th she takes honors algebra and gets an easy A since she will have already taken algebra and keeps studying topics into algebra 2.

Then she takes geometry the summer between 8th and 9th. In 9th she has caught up to the students who took algebra in 7th. Except she has taken more algebra without having a gap of a year like the student who took geometry in 8th. And has studied some topics from algebra 2. This worked for my child who then got an A in 9th honors algebra 2 while some other students struggled who were advanced into algebra in 7th.

I think this would require taking geometry at home in 8th grade so that she isn't expected to learn a year's worth of math over the summer. It's also a shame that a student who has already taken algebra and can demonstrate their knowledge would need to retake the class.

This is true but not as bad as you think.

The Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 sequence is absolutely terrible. You should do both Algebra and Geometry every year.
So you are in good shape to spend school time reviewing easy Algebra 1 for fluency, and spend home time learning Geometry (lots of high-quality low-cost options) before getting summer credit

Many of the top students do this. It's also better, pedagogically, for your student to learn at their own pace first, and use the school pace later for review, instead of jumping ahead in school where now they have a high-stakes commitment to keep up with school pace.

I know the math competition classes are a mix of algebra, geometry, and number theory. I think that is part of the reason DS likes them so much, they move quickly but dive into a bunch of different subjects. The classes are engaging and challenging. Math in ES seems to be a mix of the different subjects as well. It is when the US gets to higher math that we split them for some reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other option is to have her start taking an online algebra class at home like AOPS or there are plenty of really good homeschool algebra programs. She takes algebra at home while taking pre-algebra/math 7 next year. In 8th she takes honors algebra and gets an easy A since she will have already taken algebra and keeps studying topics into algebra 2.

Then she takes geometry the summer between 8th and 9th. In 9th she has caught up to the students who took algebra in 7th. Except she has taken more algebra without having a gap of a year like the student who took geometry in 8th. And has studied some topics from algebra 2. This worked for my child who then got an A in 9th honors algebra 2 while some other students struggled who were advanced into algebra in 7th.

I think this would require taking geometry at home in 8th grade so that she isn't expected to learn a year's worth of math over the summer. It's also a shame that a student who has already taken algebra and can demonstrate their knowledge would need to retake the class.

This is true but not as bad as you think.

The Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 sequence is absolutely terrible. You should do both Algebra and Geometry every year.
So you are in good shape to spend school time reviewing easy Algebra 1 for fluency, and spend home time learning Geometry (lots of high-quality low-cost options) before getting summer credit

Many of the top students do this. It's also better, pedagogically, for your student to learn at their own pace first, and use the school pace later for review, instead of jumping ahead in school where now they have a high-stakes commitment to keep up with school pace.

This is a strange way to look at school. Where did this idea come from, that school is not for learning but is only for getting high grades? Teachers teach material, kids don't have to prelearn it. Their parents think they should so they preteach it (either through a class or at the kitchen table). But why?

Because of the reality that math is unfortunately taught extremely poorly in American schools, (FCPS not being that different, outside perhaps a few schools and/or teachers). Many parents who realize this then come to the logical conclusion that kids can learn math at home/via enrichment much more thoroughly. It's a sad situation, but there's no easy fix, it's cultural and would likely take generations to fix the way math is taught in schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Running the numbers at the VA DOE SOL Score site:

There were 1,680 7th graders who took Algebra 1, 1,158 passed advanced, 514 passed, and 8 failed the SOL. Centers are bolded. Center schools will pull students from base MS whihc will explain why some base schools have a lot fewer kids in Algebra 1, particularly those feeding Carson, Longfellow, Frost, Kimer, and Cooper.

Carson Middle 7 Algebra I 228
Longfellow Middle 7 Algebra I 166
Frost Middle 7 Algebra I 128
Kilmer Middle 7 Algebra I 128
Rocky Run Middle 7 Algebra I 128
Cooper Middle 7 Algebra I 125
Thoreau Middle 7 Algebra I 89
Johnson Middle 7 Algebra I 87
Lake Braddock 7 Algebra I 78
Jackson Middle 7 Algebra I 68
Glasgow Middle 7 Algebra I 62
Twain Middle 7 Algebra I 61
Irving Middle 7 Algebra I 51
Hughes Middle 7 Algebra I 47
Sandburg Middle 7 Algebra I 41
Robinson Secondary 7 Algebra I 36
South County Middle 7 Algebra I 35
Franklin Middle 7 Algebra I 27
Holmes Middle 7 Algebra I 23
Liberty Middle 7 Algebra I 22
Whitman Middle 7 Algebra I 18
Hayfield Secondary 7 Algebra I 14
Herndon Middle 7 Algebra I 11
Key Middle 7 Algebra I <
Poe Middle 7 Algebra I <
Stone Middle 7 Algebra I <

The fact that the vast majority pass advanced or passed implies the existing cutoffs do a good job identifying kids who will do well.

Or it just implies that SOLs are a very poor measure of mathematical understanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other option is to have her start taking an online algebra class at home like AOPS or there are plenty of really good homeschool algebra programs. She takes algebra at home while taking pre-algebra/math 7 next year. In 8th she takes honors algebra and gets an easy A since she will have already taken algebra and keeps studying topics into algebra 2.

Then she takes geometry the summer between 8th and 9th. In 9th she has caught up to the students who took algebra in 7th. Except she has taken more algebra without having a gap of a year like the student who took geometry in 8th. And has studied some topics from algebra 2. This worked for my child who then got an A in 9th honors algebra 2 while some other students struggled who were advanced into algebra in 7th.

I think this would require taking geometry at home in 8th grade so that she isn't expected to learn a year's worth of math over the summer. It's also a shame that a student who has already taken algebra and can demonstrate their knowledge would need to retake the class.

This is true but not as bad as you think.

The Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 sequence is absolutely terrible. You should do both Algebra and Geometry every year.
So you are in good shape to spend school time reviewing easy Algebra 1 for fluency, and spend home time learning Geometry (lots of high-quality low-cost options) before getting summer credit

Many of the top students do this. It's also better, pedagogically, for your student to learn at their own pace first, and use the school pace later for review, instead of jumping ahead in school where now they have a high-stakes commitment to keep up with school pace.

This is a strange way to look at school. Where did this idea come from, that school is not for learning but is only for getting high grades? Teachers teach material, kids don't have to prelearn it. Their parents think they should so they preteach it (either through a class or at the kitchen table). But why?

Because DS is bored with math at school and wants do dive deeper and move more quickly. Is it realy that different then allowing a kid who loves to read to read books above their grade level or a kid who loves music to take lessons outside of school or a kid who loves psorts to play a sport outside of PE? For some reason we have this weird idea that it is ok for kids to be really interested in doing a lot of activities outside of school but once those activities are math or science based people think it is pushy.

Encourage a kid to read or write for fun and all is well. Encourage a kid to do math for fun and you are a tiger parent.

It is easier for schools to deal with advanced readers and writers, you place the child in the top reading group and you allow them to read what they want when they finish their school work. It is harder to deal with a kid who is advanced in math because group work rarely is enough. But that doesn't mean that parents with kids who love math should not support that love. Or that parents with kids who are good at math and bored at school shouldn't find a way to engage their child in math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other option is to have her start taking an online algebra class at home like AOPS or there are plenty of really good homeschool algebra programs. She takes algebra at home while taking pre-algebra/math 7 next year. In 8th she takes honors algebra and gets an easy A since she will have already taken algebra and keeps studying topics into algebra 2.

Then she takes geometry the summer between 8th and 9th. In 9th she has caught up to the students who took algebra in 7th. Except she has taken more algebra without having a gap of a year like the student who took geometry in 8th. And has studied some topics from algebra 2. This worked for my child who then got an A in 9th honors algebra 2 while some other students struggled who were advanced into algebra in 7th.

I think this would require taking geometry at home in 8th grade so that she isn't expected to learn a year's worth of math over the summer. It's also a shame that a student who has already taken algebra and can demonstrate their knowledge would need to retake the class.

This is true but not as bad as you think.

The Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 sequence is absolutely terrible. You should do both Algebra and Geometry every year.
So you are in good shape to spend school time reviewing easy Algebra 1 for fluency, and spend home time learning Geometry (lots of high-quality low-cost options) before getting summer credit

Many of the top students do this. It's also better, pedagogically, for your student to learn at their own pace first, and use the school pace later for review, instead of jumping ahead in school where now they have a high-stakes commitment to keep up with school pace.

This is a strange way to look at school. Where did this idea come from, that school is not for learning but is only for getting high grades? Teachers teach material, kids don't have to prelearn it. Their parents think they should so they preteach it (either through a class or at the kitchen table). But why?

Because of the reality that math is unfortunately taught extremely poorly in American schools, (FCPS not being that different, outside perhaps a few schools and/or teachers). Many parents who realize this then come to the logical conclusion that kids can learn math at home/via enrichment much more thoroughly. It's a sad situation, but there's no easy fix, it's cultural and would likely take generations to fix the way math is taught in schools.

Math is taught just fine if you look at the advanced cohort. The biggest difference compared to international students is how early other countries track students to the trades and away from math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Running the numbers at the VA DOE SOL Score site:

There were 1,680 7th graders who took Algebra 1, 1,158 passed advanced, 514 passed, and 8 failed the SOL. Centers are bolded. Center schools will pull students from base MS whihc will explain why some base schools have a lot fewer kids in Algebra 1, particularly those feeding Carson, Longfellow, Frost, Kimer, and Cooper.

Carson Middle 7 Algebra I 228
Longfellow Middle 7 Algebra I 166
Frost Middle 7 Algebra I 128
Kilmer Middle 7 Algebra I 128
Rocky Run Middle 7 Algebra I 128
Cooper Middle 7 Algebra I 125
Thoreau Middle 7 Algebra I 89
Johnson Middle 7 Algebra I 87
Lake Braddock 7 Algebra I 78
Jackson Middle 7 Algebra I 68
Glasgow Middle 7 Algebra I 62
Twain Middle 7 Algebra I 61
Irving Middle 7 Algebra I 51
Hughes Middle 7 Algebra I 47
Sandburg Middle 7 Algebra I 41
Robinson Secondary 7 Algebra I 36
South County Middle 7 Algebra I 35
Franklin Middle 7 Algebra I 27
Holmes Middle 7 Algebra I 23
Liberty Middle 7 Algebra I 22
Whitman Middle 7 Algebra I 18
Hayfield Secondary 7 Algebra I 14
Herndon Middle 7 Algebra I 11
Key Middle 7 Algebra I <
Poe Middle 7 Algebra I <
Stone Middle 7 Algebra I <

The fact that the vast majority pass advanced or passed implies the existing cutoffs do a good job identifying kids who will do well.

Or it just implies that SOLs are a very poor measure of mathematical understanding.

Sure, if you cannot abandon the narrative that students are bad at math. Take a look at the SOL questions. Do they seem that poor to you? Or are they a reasonably accurate measure of math mastery?