How did we survive?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I won't forget the tyrannical aspects of COVID. It brought to life what I'd only read in political textbooks about other regimes and political ideologies that I'd assume never could happen in America.

I do remember the censorship on here and elsewhere which I'd never encountered before in my 40 years on this earth.

We are, on the face of it, fairly back to normal as a society but behind the faces there's a lot of scars and deep memories. And a great deal of social distrust and contempt. Now that we are getting even the NYT tacitly admitting various policies like shutting down schools and masking were failures whereas three years ago people were warning against them and being screamed at that they wanted to kill grandma. I don't forget things like that. I also don't forget the strange, stubborn hysteria over COVID's origins and that it couldn't be a lab escape, whereas now it's pretty much the standard acceptance and yet there's no consequences for it nor for the people who dared point out the strong likelihood it had to be a lab escape, or for the people who probably were indirectly involved via the research funding.

But we did survive. But we lost a lot, collectively as a society, during the COVID years. I think an old America died with COVID and something different emerged and it's never going to be the same place. COVID revealed enormous fault lines in American society and even the underlying human psyche.

Liberal Democrat here and I feel exactly the same way. It really scared me how judgmental people were. I remember going on a run by myself outdoors and some lady 50 feet away squawked, “WHERE’S YOUR MASK?!”
It would even have been understandable if people just followed the governor’s orders, but they went way, WAY far above and beyond. I’ve even lost friends over it. I still have some (increasingly distant) friends that refuse to go out to any indoor restaurant or party if the Covid case rate is over a certain number. And no, they don’t have any specific preexisting conditions. I really feel bad but they are just no fun to hang out with and that’s just no way to live.
I remember how people would jump down your throat if you so much as asked, well what kind of lives are we even saving? Not even letting people say goodbye to loved ones in the hospital dying of things other than Covid. And don’t get me started about school closures.

But I would be remiss if I didn’t criticize the other side of the issue too. The Covid lockdown authoritarianism bred reactionary conspiracy thinking, general anti-science, anti-evidence based garbage. Knee-jerk opposition to vaccines, and not just mRNA vaccines. Dismissing life-saving medicines as a Big Pharma psy-op. Cult followings around quack pseudoscience “wellness” grifters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have one kid who was three when COVID hit. I was 100% absolutely living my best life. I had to strategize, getting up early and staying up late to make sure work got done, but I filled my days with spending time with my kid. Some of my very favorite memories of her childhood are going to be March-June 2020.

I agree. It was one of the greatest times of my life. It was honestly one of my happiest moments.

I haven't read the whole thread but I agree with this. COVID was scary and I'll always be saddened about live's lost (many unnecessarily). but my kids were 3 and 5 at the time and, honestly, it was the best year or so of my life. Yes, we had to rearrange schedules to get things done but if you had kids around this age, it was probably the easiest to deal with.

Time is the most valuable resource and time spent with kids is very fleeting. Even with the newborn, OP's kids were the perfect age to have made COVID a wonderful experience. I went on mature walks with my kids, did crafts, camped, cooked together read a bunch, and did so many things we wouldn't have taken time to do

I also got to spend a lot of time with my spouse because outside distractions were limited (I understand YMMV depending on how happy your relationship is) and it strengthened our relationship so much.

To be fair, we're both pretty introverted and I would never say it publicly, but COVID was the best time of my life and that's largely because my kids were they age they were at the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you in therapy? I had bad PPD and my memory and thoughts surrounding DS' first year were pretty miserable until I got therapy. (this wasn't during Covid).

I was a Covid nurse. I've legitimately blocked out some memories because it got so bad. What helped me was to concentrate on the positives. It reaffirmed what a great guy DH is and how strong our marriage is. I gained a lot of confidence as a nurse. Etc etc. It isn't so much about "getting over it" as it is about not letting those memories consume you. It is what it is. What happened isn't going to change and it won't do you good to concentrate on all you regret

We have a few friends that are working with EMDR therapy to help with significant workplace trauma. It’s slowly helping.

I'm an ER doc. I had to drive my toddler to the midwest to my parent's house, say goodbye indefinitely, then return to work where my pay was cut and PPE was promised but not guaranteed. I remember holding down a 40 yo to intubate him because the dose of drugs we typically draw up for this didn't touch a young, otherwise healthy 40 yo male who knew he was dying and was fighting it with every ounce of his strength. His mask was off, ours were off, the room was chaos, he was spraying Covid-soaked saliva in our faces. I went home that night to my apt by myself and laid in the dark and cried.

I don't think about any of these memories often because they don't help me. I got through, got my kiddo back, my parents did ok, the patient above lived. But the body keeps the score, as they say. I had to get therapy to deal with what is probably ptsd. My colleagues and I all joke that we have it but none of us laugh. Many of us quit (actually 20% of the healthcare workforce if you span across skill levels. If you're wondering why you can't get in to see your doctor 2 years later this is why).

Sorry you got chewed out on this thread. No one gets to decide how you perceive what you went through, but based on how you feel it deeply affected you and probably needs to be unwound. You're wondering how you survived only now because now your brain knows it's safe to wonder. You'll benefit from unpacking it. Don't worry about all the comparisons, we all have our stuff. Good luck to you.

You conveniently skipped a big part of the ops post which was that she was angry as those without young children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I won't forget the tyrannical aspects of COVID. It brought to life what I'd only read in political textbooks about other regimes and political ideologies that I'd assume never could happen in America.

I do remember the censorship on here and elsewhere which I'd never encountered before in my 40 years on this earth.

We are, on the face of it, fairly back to normal as a society but behind the faces there's a lot of scars and deep memories. And a great deal of social distrust and contempt. Now that we are getting even the NYT tacitly admitting various policies like shutting down schools and masking were failures whereas three years ago people were warning against them and being screamed at that they wanted to kill grandma. I don't forget things like that. I also don't forget the strange, stubborn hysteria over COVID's origins and that it couldn't be a lab escape, whereas now it's pretty much the standard acceptance and yet there's no consequences for it nor for the people who dared point out the strong likelihood it had to be a lab escape, or for the people who probably were indirectly involved via the research funding.

But we did survive. But we lost a lot, collectively as a society, during the COVID years. I think an old America died with COVID and something different emerged and it's never going to be the same place. COVID revealed enormous fault lines in American society and even the underlying human psyche.

Liberal Democrat here and I feel exactly the same way. It really scared me how judgmental people were. I remember going on a run by myself outdoors and some lady 50 feet away squawked, “WHERE’S YOUR MASK?!”
It would even have been understandable if people just followed the governor’s orders, but they went way, WAY far above and beyond. I’ve even lost friends over it. I still have some (increasingly distant) friends that refuse to go out to any indoor restaurant or party if the Covid case rate is over a certain number. And no, they don’t have any specific preexisting conditions. I really feel bad but they are just no fun to hang out with and that’s just no way to live.
I remember how people would jump down your throat if you so much as asked, well what kind of lives are we even saving? Not even letting people say goodbye to loved ones in the hospital dying of things other than Covid. And don’t get me started about school closures.

But I would be remiss if I didn’t criticize the other side of the issue too. The Covid lockdown authoritarianism bred reactionary conspiracy thinking, general anti-science, anti-evidence based garbage. Knee-jerk opposition to vaccines, and not just mRNA vaccines. Dismissing life-saving medicines as a Big Pharma psy-op. Cult followings around quack pseudoscience “wellness” grifters.

There’s been a shift in thinking and it was happening before Covid but Covid accelerated it greatly. 15-20 years ago the people Pooh-poohing vaccines in favor of natural remedies were almost all big time left liberals. And the outbreaks of vaccine preventable diseases were concentrated in those types of areas - mostly out west, some cities in Colorado, Oregon, Washington, and California. Now it’s the arch conservatives. some of those early vaccine denialists became conservative because of the Covid stuff and now they hold other far right views. And the liberals are now staunchly pro vaccine. It was a realigning of politics and values.

[Anonymous]

Having an older child did not make it easier. I know three teens that ended up in residential treatment centers during that time period.

My own children suffered with social and mental issues.

Other people’s problems seem easier to you because you don’t know what they experienced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have one kid who was three when COVID hit. I was 100% absolutely living my best life. I had to strategize, getting up early and staying up late to make sure work got done, but I filled my days with spending time with my kid. Some of my very favorite memories of her childhood are going to be March-June 2020.

I agree. It was one of the greatest times of my life. It was honestly one of my happiest moments.

I haven't read the whole thread but I agree with this. COVID was scary and I'll always be saddened about live's lost (many unnecessarily). but my kids were 3 and 5 at the time and, honestly, it was the best year or so of my life. Yes, we had to rearrange schedules to get things done but if you had kids around this age, it was probably the easiest to deal with.

Time is the most valuable resource and time spent with kids is very fleeting. Even with the newborn, OP's kids were the perfect age to have made COVID a wonderful experience. I went on mature walks with my kids, did crafts, camped, cooked together read a bunch, and did so many things we wouldn't have taken time to do

I also got to spend a lot of time with my spouse because outside distractions were limited (I understand YMMV depending on how happy your relationship is) and it strengthened our relationship so much.

To be fair, we're both pretty introverted and I would never say it publicly, but COVID was the best time of my life and that's largely because my kids were they age they were at the time.

OP here - I suppose that is true if I had any sort of sleep. But since I was living on 45 minute increments of sleep every night for weeks/months on end it was pretty much an awful experience. I didn't have the mental energy to do tons of crafts/nature walks etc. with my older kids because I was just exhausted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I won't forget the tyrannical aspects of COVID. It brought to life what I'd only read in political textbooks about other regimes and political ideologies that I'd assume never could happen in America.

I do remember the censorship on here and elsewhere which I'd never encountered before in my 40 years on this earth.

We are, on the face of it, fairly back to normal as a society but behind the faces there's a lot of scars and deep memories. And a great deal of social distrust and contempt. Now that we are getting even the NYT tacitly admitting various policies like shutting down schools and masking were failures whereas three years ago people were warning against them and being screamed at that they wanted to kill grandma. I don't forget things like that. I also don't forget the strange, stubborn hysteria over COVID's origins and that it couldn't be a lab escape, whereas now it's pretty much the standard acceptance and yet there's no consequences for it nor for the people who dared point out the strong likelihood it had to be a lab escape, or for the people who probably were indirectly involved via the research funding.

But we did survive. But we lost a lot, collectively as a society, during the COVID years. I think an old America died with COVID and something different emerged and it's never going to be the same place. COVID revealed enormous fault lines in American society and even the underlying human psyche.

Liberal Democrat here and I feel exactly the same way. It really scared me how judgmental people were. I remember going on a run by myself outdoors and some lady 50 feet away squawked, “WHERE’S YOUR MASK?!”
It would even have been understandable if people just followed the governor’s orders, but they went way, WAY far above and beyond. I’ve even lost friends over it. I still have some (increasingly distant) friends that refuse to go out to any indoor restaurant or party if the Covid case rate is over a certain number. And no, they don’t have any specific preexisting conditions. I really feel bad but they are just no fun to hang out with and that’s just no way to live.
I remember how people would jump down your throat if you so much as asked, well what kind of lives are we even saving? Not even letting people say goodbye to loved ones in the hospital dying of things other than Covid. And don’t get me started about school closures.

But I would be remiss if I didn’t criticize the other side of the issue too. The Covid lockdown authoritarianism bred reactionary conspiracy thinking, general anti-science, anti-evidence based garbage. Knee-jerk opposition to vaccines, and not just mRNA vaccines. Dismissing life-saving medicines as a Big Pharma psy-op. Cult followings around quack pseudoscience “wellness” grifters.

There’s been a shift in thinking and it was happening before Covid but Covid accelerated it greatly. 15-20 years ago the people Pooh-poohing vaccines in favor of natural remedies were almost all big time left liberals. And the outbreaks of vaccine preventable diseases were concentrated in those types of areas - mostly out west, some cities in Colorado, Oregon, Washington, and California. Now it’s the arch conservatives. some of those early vaccine denialists became conservative because of the Covid stuff and now they hold other far right views. And the liberals are now staunchly pro vaccine. It was a realigning of politics and values.

Yup. The wellness-to-right wing conspiracy pipeline is a thing. Joe Rogan is an example of a facilitator. I recommend checking out the Conspiratuality podcast if anyone is interested in learning more about this trend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I won't forget the tyrannical aspects of COVID. It brought to life what I'd only read in political textbooks about other regimes and political ideologies that I'd assume never could happen in America.

I do remember the censorship on here and elsewhere which I'd never encountered before in my 40 years on this earth.

We are, on the face of it, fairly back to normal as a society but behind the faces there's a lot of scars and deep memories. And a great deal of social distrust and contempt. Now that we are getting even the NYT tacitly admitting various policies like shutting down schools and masking were failures whereas three years ago people were warning against them and being screamed at that they wanted to kill grandma. I don't forget things like that. I also don't forget the strange, stubborn hysteria over COVID's origins and that it couldn't be a lab escape, whereas now it's pretty much the standard acceptance and yet there's no consequences for it nor for the people who dared point out the strong likelihood it had to be a lab escape, or for the people who probably were indirectly involved via the research funding.

But we did survive. But we lost a lot, collectively as a society, during the COVID years. I think an old America died with COVID and something different emerged and it's never going to be the same place. COVID revealed enormous fault lines in American society and even the underlying human psyche.

Liberal Democrat here and I feel exactly the same way. It really scared me how judgmental people were. I remember going on a run by myself outdoors and some lady 50 feet away squawked, “WHERE’S YOUR MASK?!”
It would even have been understandable if people just followed the governor’s orders, but they went way, WAY far above and beyond. I’ve even lost friends over it. I still have some (increasingly distant) friends that refuse to go out to any indoor restaurant or party if the Covid case rate is over a certain number. And no, they don’t have any specific preexisting conditions. I really feel bad but they are just no fun to hang out with and that’s just no way to live.
I remember how people would jump down your throat if you so much as asked, well what kind of lives are we even saving? Not even letting people say goodbye to loved ones in the hospital dying of things other than Covid. And don’t get me started about school closures.

But I would be remiss if I didn’t criticize the other side of the issue too. The Covid lockdown authoritarianism bred reactionary conspiracy thinking, general anti-science, anti-evidence based garbage. Knee-jerk opposition to vaccines, and not just mRNA vaccines. Dismissing life-saving medicines as a Big Pharma psy-op. Cult followings around quack pseudoscience “wellness” grifters.

There’s been a shift in thinking and it was happening before Covid but Covid accelerated it greatly. 15-20 years ago the people Pooh-poohing vaccines in favor of natural remedies were almost all big time left liberals. And the outbreaks of vaccine preventable diseases were concentrated in those types of areas - mostly out west, some cities in Colorado, Oregon, Washington, and California. Now it’s the arch conservatives. some of those early vaccine denialists became conservative because of the Covid stuff and now they hold other far right views. And the liberals are now staunchly pro vaccine. It was a realigning of politics and values.

Yup. The wellness-to-right wing conspiracy pipeline is a thing. Joe Rogan is an example of a facilitator. I recommend checking out the Conspiratuality podcast if anyone is interested in learning more about this trend.

How about the fact that the virus was engineered in a China lab and they have not been held accountable.

[Anonymous]

I fell asleep every night of the initial months of the pandemic to a video from American Experience on the PBS website - sadly no longer available in full, it's called Influenza 1918.

In that influenza pandemic, 675,000 Americans died from a total population of around 103 million.

The pandemic of 2020 killed 1 million out of 330 million.

The American Experience documentary starts out with elders discussing their childhood experience of the influenza pandemic of 1918, and how many of them lost multiple friends and relatives within the span of a few days' time when the flu came to their town or city.

It's a very good documentary, I suggest seeking it out on DVD or at your library if it's available.

Here's a brief discussion of that flu pandemic in a piece from CBS in the early days of the covid pandmic: https://youtu.be/pCF_ePFYPDU?si=KyQL4Q_RfCIuuP2F

I'm sure it was hard being locked down with three little kids - one a newborn. I do have empathy for you, even as a frontline worker who was in the healthcare trenches while others stayed safely at home.

We did okay, and those of us who escaped the death grip of covid should be grateful for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have one kid who was three when COVID hit. I was 100% absolutely living my best life. I had to strategize, getting up early and staying up late to make sure work got done, but I filled my days with spending time with my kid. Some of my very favorite memories of her childhood are going to be March-June 2020.

I agree. It was one of the greatest times of my life. It was honestly one of my happiest moments.

I haven't read the whole thread but I agree with this. COVID was scary and I'll always be saddened about live's lost (many unnecessarily). but my kids were 3 and 5 at the time and, honestly, it was the best year or so of my life. Yes, we had to rearrange schedules to get things done but if you had kids around this age, it was probably the easiest to deal with.

Time is the most valuable resource and time spent with kids is very fleeting. Even with the newborn, OP's kids were the perfect age to have made COVID a wonderful experience. I went on mature walks with my kids, did crafts, camped, cooked together read a bunch, and did so many things we wouldn't have taken time to do

I also got to spend a lot of time with my spouse because outside distractions were limited (I understand YMMV depending on how happy your relationship is) and it strengthened our relationship so much.

To be fair, we're both pretty introverted and I would never say it publicly, but COVID was the best time of my life and that's largely because my kids were they age they were at the time.

OP here - I suppose that is true if I had any sort of sleep. But since I was living on 45 minute increments of sleep every night for weeks/months on end it was pretty much an awful experience. I didn't have the mental energy to do tons of crafts/nature walks etc. with my older kids because I was just exhausted.

What does this have to do with covid? And you being a female dog to people with older children?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I won't forget the tyrannical aspects of COVID. It brought to life what I'd only read in political textbooks about other regimes and political ideologies that I'd assume never could happen in America.

I do remember the censorship on here and elsewhere which I'd never encountered before in my 40 years on this earth.

We are, on the face of it, fairly back to normal as a society but behind the faces there's a lot of scars and deep memories. And a great deal of social distrust and contempt. Now that we are getting even the NYT tacitly admitting various policies like shutting down schools and masking were failures whereas three years ago people were warning against them and being screamed at that they wanted to kill grandma. I don't forget things like that. I also don't forget the strange, stubborn hysteria over COVID's origins and that it couldn't be a lab escape, whereas now it's pretty much the standard acceptance and yet there's no consequences for it nor for the people who dared point out the strong likelihood it had to be a lab escape, or for the people who probably were indirectly involved via the research funding.

But we did survive. But we lost a lot, collectively as a society, during the COVID years. I think an old America died with COVID and something different emerged and it's never going to be the same place. COVID revealed enormous fault lines in American society and even the underlying human psyche.

Liberal Democrat here and I feel exactly the same way. It really scared me how judgmental people were. I remember going on a run by myself outdoors and some lady 50 feet away squawked, “WHERE’S YOUR MASK?!”
It would even have been understandable if people just followed the governor’s orders, but they went way, WAY far above and beyond. I’ve even lost friends over it. I still have some (increasingly distant) friends that refuse to go out to any indoor restaurant or party if the Covid case rate is over a certain number. And no, they don’t have any specific preexisting conditions. I really feel bad but they are just no fun to hang out with and that’s just no way to live.
I remember how people would jump down your throat if you so much as asked, well what kind of lives are we even saving? Not even letting people say goodbye to loved ones in the hospital dying of things other than Covid. And don’t get me started about school closures.

But I would be remiss if I didn’t criticize the other side of the issue too. The Covid lockdown authoritarianism bred reactionary conspiracy thinking, general anti-science, anti-evidence based garbage. Knee-jerk opposition to vaccines, and not just mRNA vaccines. Dismissing life-saving medicines as a Big Pharma psy-op. Cult followings around quack pseudoscience “wellness” grifters.

This happened to me. They now realize that they were wrong in not letting in family but in March - May 2020 we were shut out as my father died.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have been thinking back to the beginning of the pandemic/shut downs and I wonder how I mentally survived it. When shutdown happened I had a newborn, 3 year old and 5 year old. Plus a husband who wasn't used to working from home, working 60-80 hours a week. My PPD spiraled out of control during March-April and I sincerely don't know how I managed to keep my newborn alive during that time. I was sleeping in 45 minute increments at night and up all day with my toddler/5 year old. Only saving grace was I that I didn't have to work since I was on maternity leave.

Now thinking back on it I am surprised that my family even managed to come out of that time unscathed. I think about all my friends who had older children or child free friends who were "living their best lives" and sometimes get sooo angry. I know it was all situational but god it was such a hard period of time for those of us with young kids. I also feel for parents who had older children who missed major life milestones like prom and graduation or pivotal years in college.

for perspective, we had older kids. The pandemic was the only time in my career when I have been able to consistently work from home. And that made me realized how did I ever do the daily commute and pick up and dinner rush and it made me so angry. The amount of time I lost with my kids and wasted on a commute. It was all so worthless. It was a hard period of time for a decade.

The take away is that everyone has a period in life that is really hard while others around them are doing ok.

And lastly, consider the fact that you are asking "how did we survive?" and realize that with the passage of time it was really not that significant in the big scheme of things. Heck even that decade pales in comparison to the number of years where it hasn't been hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have been thinking back to the beginning of the pandemic/shut downs and I wonder how I mentally survived it. When shutdown happened I had a newborn, 3 year old and 5 year old. Plus a husband who wasn't used to working from home, working 60-80 hours a week. My PPD spiraled out of control during March-April and I sincerely don't know how I managed to keep my newborn alive during that time. I was sleeping in 45 minute increments at night and up all day with my toddler/5 year old. Only saving grace was I that I didn't have to work since I was on maternity leave.

Now thinking back on it I am surprised that my family even managed to come out of that time unscathed. I think about all my friends who had older children or child free friends who were "living their best lives" and sometimes get sooo angry. I know it was all situational but god it was such a hard period of time for those of us with young kids. I also feel for parents who had older children who missed major life milestones like prom and graduation or pivotal years in college.

for perspective, we had older kids. The pandemic was the only time in my career when I have been able to consistently work from home. And that made me realized how did I ever do the daily commute and pick up and dinner rush and it made me so angry. The amount of time I lost with my kids and wasted on a commute. It was all so worthless. It was a hard period of time for a decade.

The take away is that everyone has a period in life that is really hard while others around them are doing ok.

And lastly, consider the fact that you are asking "how did we survive?" and realize that with the passage of time it was really not that significant in the big scheme of things. Heck even that decade pales in comparison to the number of years where it hasn't been hard.

OP hates you for having older children during the pandemic.

[Anonymous]

The idea that the virus originated in a lab is NOT accepted as the most likely scenario. Wet market origins remains the most likely. There is insufficient evidence to rule out lab leak, which people hyperventilate about meaning that it must have leaked from a lab. While there’s insufficient evidence, it requires quite a few leaps of faith to go to a less likely scenario as the “most likely” vs the scenario that has happened multiple times before (mutations and transmissions across different species).