UMD or W&M

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are equal in reputation so would let student pick which they prefer, assuming cost is similar.

They absolutely aren't

You're right. UMD is ranked higher (46) than WM (53).
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

And yet, according to Parchment, when applicants are admitted to both, they choose W&M over UMD-CP 70% to 30%. Revealed preference tells us a lot more than pseudoscience rankings.

preferences can be about many things, and not necessarily about academics.

Yes, but what makes a university “better” than another if not the revealed preference of a population who can choose between them? What you think is important is NOT the only criteria in evaluating a university. And there is no way accurate way to measure the “academics” between the two in a way that you can say flatly one is stronger than the other. Sure UMD is bigger and offers things that W&M does not, but what W&M does do I think it does quite well.

Certainly, it depends on when and who took the survey, and what their majors are.

Harvard is the most popular on parchment, but a serious student would choose UMD over Harvard for CS.

Parchment also shows Michigan State as top 20 most popular. You think an Econ major would choose Mich State over W&M?

Also, the stats on parchment for the colleges are almost 10 years old. A lot has changed in 10 years.

On what basis are you making that assertion?

The many high stats CS students I know, and yes, rankings.

For example, the number of published papers in CS coming out colleges: Harvard isn't on the list but UMD is.

https://csrankings.org/#/index?all&us

That list changes month to month but only slightly because it's based on the publications. But UMD is always somewhere on that list, and Harvard is not.

Look up most CS rankings.. Harvard is usually not up there. Harvard has the name prestige, but it's not really known for a top CS program.

I have a friend who went to Harvard for law; their DC is a CS major, and they didn't think their DC should apply to Harvard.

Published papers just means a school has a greater graduate/research focus. Says nothing about the actual quality of the program.

Not to mention that churning out papers isn't even a sign of research quality--you would probably need metrics of journal quality, citations and influence to get even a bit closer to that--and then adjust by per capita faculty. And it's still not telling you much about the quality of the undergraduate program.

please.. if this was a list that showed W&M has more published researched in Econ you'd be all "see.. WM is so much better".

No we wouldn't. Don't project your intellectual dishonesty onto other people.

I don't even have a preference between W&M and UMD--both are great schools. I just think the assorted rankings are obviously flawed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to share an unpopular opinion. Real universities have engineering programs. There. I said it.

It's an unpopular opinion because it's inaccurate and narrow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are equal in reputation so would let student pick which they prefer, assuming cost is similar.

They absolutely aren't

You're right. UMD is ranked higher (46) than WM (53).
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

And yet, according to Parchment, when applicants are admitted to both, they choose W&M over UMD-CP 70% to 30%. Revealed preference tells us a lot more than pseudoscience rankings.

preferences can be about many things, and not necessarily about academics.

Yes, but what makes a university “better” than another if not the revealed preference of a population who can choose between them? What you think is important is NOT the only criteria in evaluating a university. And there is no way accurate way to measure the “academics” between the two in a way that you can say flatly one is stronger than the other. Sure UMD is bigger and offers things that W&M does not, but what W&M does do I think it does quite well.

Certainly, it depends on when and who took the survey, and what their majors are.

Harvard is the most popular on parchment, but a serious student would choose UMD over Harvard for CS.

Parchment also shows Michigan State as top 20 most popular. You think an Econ major would choose Mich State over W&M?

Also, the stats on parchment for the colleges are almost 10 years old. A lot has changed in 10 years.

On what basis are you making that assertion?

The many high stats CS students I know, and yes, rankings.

For example, the number of published papers in CS coming out colleges: Harvard isn't on the list but UMD is.

https://csrankings.org/#/index?all&us

That list changes month to month but only slightly because it's based on the publications. But UMD is always somewhere on that list, and Harvard is not.

Look up most CS rankings.. Harvard is usually not up there. Harvard has the name prestige, but it's not really known for a top CS program.

I have a friend who went to Harvard for law; their DC is a CS major, and they didn't think their DC should apply to Harvard.

From WSJ:

Engineers who attended Harvard as undergraduates earn significantly more per year than graduates of other schools, according to a new ranking of colleges by Burning Glass, a nonprofit that researches employment trends.

The average annual engineering salary of Harvard graduates over their first 10 years in the field is $130,119. That’s a premium of nearly $40,000 a year over the median graduate’s average annual salary of $90,174. Stanford University and the California Institute of Technology are No. 2 and No. 3 on the private-school list.

UMD doesn't even make the list of top 20 public universities

Additionally from WSJ:

Graduates of Stanford University who go into tech earn higher salaries than other schools’ graduates in the field, according to a ranking compiled by the Burning Glass Institute, a nonprofit that researches employment trends. Stanford grads make an average of $151,028, followed by Harvard at $149,934. Highest public school is UC Berkeley at $140,960 and the lowest at #20 is UNC at $114,076.

Again, UMD doesn't even make the list of Top 20 public universities.

It's like why would anyone even bother attending, right?

that's not what I stated. No argument that Harvard is prestigious, just not necessarily a top CS school.

Also, how much the graduate makes in a vacuum doesn't mean much. More students at Harvard come from well connected and wealthy families than students from UMD. So, it's not surprising that Harvard grads make more. Also, locality of the job plays a role in the salary. I used to work for a FAANG in SV.

Say what you like, but most serious CS students wouldn't choose Harvard for their CS program over UMD CS program. Sure, the name is more prestigious, and a student may choose Harvard for that, but the CS program is not.

OK. let's forget about Harvard and just look at other public schools. You do realize you are going down the rabbit hole of essentially making stuff up to double-down on your position.

Engineering (UMD did not make the list):

1. UC Berkeley: $110,153
5. San Jose State: $105,180
8. UNC Chapel Hill: $104,036
11. Indiana University: $101,804
15. University of New Mexico: $100,033
20. Colorado School of Mines: $98,450

Tech (UMD did not make the list):

1. UC Berkeley: $140,960
2. Michigan: $127,406
5. Washington: $123,739
10. UVA (ugh...like a shot through the heart): $119,497
16. William & Mary: $115,049
20. UNC: $114,076

I think your friend may actually want to reconsider Harvard vs. UMD for CS, assuming cost is not a factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are equal in reputation so would let student pick which they prefer, assuming cost is similar.

They absolutely aren't

You're right. UMD is ranked higher (46) than WM (53).
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

And yet, according to Parchment, when applicants are admitted to both, they choose W&M over UMD-CP 70% to 30%. Revealed preference tells us a lot more than pseudoscience rankings.

preferences can be about many things, and not necessarily about academics.

Yes, but what makes a university “better” than another if not the revealed preference of a population who can choose between them? What you think is important is NOT the only criteria in evaluating a university. And there is no way accurate way to measure the “academics” between the two in a way that you can say flatly one is stronger than the other. Sure UMD is bigger and offers things that W&M does not, but what W&M does do I think it does quite well.

Certainly, it depends on when and who took the survey, and what their majors are.

Harvard is the most popular on parchment, but a serious student would choose UMD over Harvard for CS.

Parchment also shows Michigan State as top 20 most popular. You think an Econ major would choose Mich State over W&M?

Also, the stats on parchment for the colleges are almost 10 years old. A lot has changed in 10 years.

On what basis are you making that assertion?

The many high stats CS students I know, and yes, rankings.

For example, the number of published papers in CS coming out colleges: Harvard isn't on the list but UMD is.

https://csrankings.org/#/index?all&us

That list changes month to month but only slightly because it's based on the publications. But UMD is always somewhere on that list, and Harvard is not.

Look up most CS rankings.. Harvard is usually not up there. Harvard has the name prestige, but it's not really known for a top CS program.

I have a friend who went to Harvard for law; their DC is a CS major, and they didn't think their DC should apply to Harvard.

From WSJ:

Engineers who attended Harvard as undergraduates earn significantly more per year than graduates of other schools, according to a new ranking of colleges by Burning Glass, a nonprofit that researches employment trends.

The average annual engineering salary of Harvard graduates over their first 10 years in the field is $130,119. That’s a premium of nearly $40,000 a year over the median graduate’s average annual salary of $90,174. Stanford University and the California Institute of Technology are No. 2 and No. 3 on the private-school list.

UMD doesn't even make the list of top 20 public universities

Additionally from WSJ:

Graduates of Stanford University who go into tech earn higher salaries than other schools’ graduates in the field, according to a ranking compiled by the Burning Glass Institute, a nonprofit that researches employment trends. Stanford grads make an average of $151,028, followed by Harvard at $149,934. Highest public school is UC Berkeley at $140,960 and the lowest at #20 is UNC at $114,076.

Again, UMD doesn't even make the list of Top 20 public universities.

It's like why would anyone even bother attending, right?

that's not what I stated. No argument that Harvard is prestigious, just not necessarily a top CS school.

Also, how much the graduate makes in a vacuum doesn't mean much. More students at Harvard come from well connected and wealthy families than students from UMD. So, it's not surprising that Harvard grads make more. Also, locality of the job plays a role in the salary. I used to work for a FAANG in SV.

Say what you like, but most serious CS students wouldn't choose Harvard for their CS program over UMD CS program. Sure, the name is more prestigious, and a student may choose Harvard for that, but the CS program is not.

OK. let's forget about Harvard and just look at other public schools. You do realize you are going down the rabbit hole of essentially making stuff up to double-down on your position.

Engineering (UMD did not make the list):

1. UC Berkeley: $110,153
5. San Jose State: $105,180
8. UNC Chapel Hill: $104,036
11. Indiana University: $101,804
15. University of New Mexico: $100,033
20. Colorado School of Mines: $98,450

Tech (UMD did not make the list):

1. UC Berkeley: $140,960
2. Michigan: $127,406
5. Washington: $123,739
10. UVA (ugh...like a shot through the heart): $119,497
16. William & Mary: $115,049
20. UNC: $114,076

I think your friend may actually want to reconsider Harvard vs. UMD for CS, assuming cost is not a factor.

What list are you citing? USNWR has UMD higher ranked in CS for ungrad than UVA, VA Tech and W&M

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are equal in reputation so would let student pick which they prefer, assuming cost is similar.

They absolutely aren't

You're right. UMD is ranked higher (46) than WM (53).
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

And yet, according to Parchment, when applicants are admitted to both, they choose W&M over UMD-CP 70% to 30%. Revealed preference tells us a lot more than pseudoscience rankings.

preferences can be about many things, and not necessarily about academics.

Yes, but what makes a university “better” than another if not the revealed preference of a population who can choose between them? What you think is important is NOT the only criteria in evaluating a university. And there is no way accurate way to measure the “academics” between the two in a way that you can say flatly one is stronger than the other. Sure UMD is bigger and offers things that W&M does not, but what W&M does do I think it does quite well.

Certainly, it depends on when and who took the survey, and what their majors are.

Harvard is the most popular on parchment, but a serious student would choose UMD over Harvard for CS.

Parchment also shows Michigan State as top 20 most popular. You think an Econ major would choose Mich State over W&M?

Also, the stats on parchment for the colleges are almost 10 years old. A lot has changed in 10 years.

On what basis are you making that assertion?

The many high stats CS students I know, and yes, rankings.

For example, the number of published papers in CS coming out colleges: Harvard isn't on the list but UMD is.

https://csrankings.org/#/index?all&us

That list changes month to month but only slightly because it's based on the publications. But UMD is always somewhere on that list, and Harvard is not.

Look up most CS rankings.. Harvard is usually not up there. Harvard has the name prestige, but it's not really known for a top CS program.

I have a friend who went to Harvard for law; their DC is a CS major, and they didn't think their DC should apply to Harvard.

From WSJ:

Engineers who attended Harvard as undergraduates earn significantly more per year than graduates of other schools, according to a new ranking of colleges by Burning Glass, a nonprofit that researches employment trends.

The average annual engineering salary of Harvard graduates over their first 10 years in the field is $130,119. That’s a premium of nearly $40,000 a year over the median graduate’s average annual salary of $90,174. Stanford University and the California Institute of Technology are No. 2 and No. 3 on the private-school list.

UMD doesn't even make the list of top 20 public universities

Additionally from WSJ:

Graduates of Stanford University who go into tech earn higher salaries than other schools’ graduates in the field, according to a ranking compiled by the Burning Glass Institute, a nonprofit that researches employment trends. Stanford grads make an average of $151,028, followed by Harvard at $149,934. Highest public school is UC Berkeley at $140,960 and the lowest at #20 is UNC at $114,076.

Again, UMD doesn't even make the list of Top 20 public universities.

It's like why would anyone even bother attending, right?

that's not what I stated. No argument that Harvard is prestigious, just not necessarily a top CS school.

Also, how much the graduate makes in a vacuum doesn't mean much. More students at Harvard come from well connected and wealthy families than students from UMD. So, it's not surprising that Harvard grads make more. Also, locality of the job plays a role in the salary. I used to work for a FAANG in SV.

Say what you like, but most serious CS students wouldn't choose Harvard for their CS program over UMD CS program. Sure, the name is more prestigious, and a student may choose Harvard for that, but the CS program is not.

OK. let's forget about Harvard and just look at other public schools. You do realize you are going down the rabbit hole of essentially making stuff up to double-down on your position.

Engineering (UMD did not make the list):

1. UC Berkeley: $110,153
5. San Jose State: $105,180
8. UNC Chapel Hill: $104,036
11. Indiana University: $101,804
15. University of New Mexico: $100,033
20. Colorado School of Mines: $98,450

Tech (UMD did not make the list):

1. UC Berkeley: $140,960
2. Michigan: $127,406
5. Washington: $123,739
10. UVA (ugh...like a shot through the heart): $119,497
16. William & Mary: $115,049
20. UNC: $114,076

I think your friend may actually want to reconsider Harvard vs. UMD for CS, assuming cost is not a factor.

What list are you citing? USNWR has UMD higher ranked in CS for ungrad than UVA, VA Tech and W&M

WSJ list of top private and public schools in terms of people actually working in engineering or tech and what they are getting paid. Yes, you could be working in tech in a business function and make the list, but the list basically comports to school known for their technical degrees.

Certainly, kids working in the engineering world I would assume have engineering degrees, though I guess a large engineering group like Bechtel may have kids on the business side.

Here are the links:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/top-colleges-high-paying-jobs-engineering-7be5d8f2
https://www.wsj.com/articles/top-colleges-high-paying-jobs-tech-58b1588c

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are equal in reputation so would let student pick which they prefer, assuming cost is similar.

They absolutely aren't

You're right. UMD is ranked higher (46) than WM (53).
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

And yet, according to Parchment, when applicants are admitted to both, they choose W&M over UMD-CP 70% to 30%. Revealed preference tells us a lot more than pseudoscience rankings.

preferences can be about many things, and not necessarily about academics.

Yes, but what makes a university “better” than another if not the revealed preference of a population who can choose between them? What you think is important is NOT the only criteria in evaluating a university. And there is no way accurate way to measure the “academics” between the two in a way that you can say flatly one is stronger than the other. Sure UMD is bigger and offers things that W&M does not, but what W&M does do I think it does quite well.

Certainly, it depends on when and who took the survey, and what their majors are.

Harvard is the most popular on parchment, but a serious student would choose UMD over Harvard for CS.

Parchment also shows Michigan State as top 20 most popular. You think an Econ major would choose Mich State over W&M?

Also, the stats on parchment for the colleges are almost 10 years old. A lot has changed in 10 years.

On what basis are you making that assertion?

The many high stats CS students I know, and yes, rankings.

For example, the number of published papers in CS coming out colleges: Harvard isn't on the list but UMD is.

https://csrankings.org/#/index?all&us

That list changes month to month but only slightly because it's based on the publications. But UMD is always somewhere on that list, and Harvard is not.

Look up most CS rankings.. Harvard is usually not up there. Harvard has the name prestige, but it's not really known for a top CS program.

I have a friend who went to Harvard for law; their DC is a CS major, and they didn't think their DC should apply to Harvard.

From WSJ:

Engineers who attended Harvard as undergraduates earn significantly more per year than graduates of other schools, according to a new ranking of colleges by Burning Glass, a nonprofit that researches employment trends.

The average annual engineering salary of Harvard graduates over their first 10 years in the field is $130,119. That’s a premium of nearly $40,000 a year over the median graduate’s average annual salary of $90,174. Stanford University and the California Institute of Technology are No. 2 and No. 3 on the private-school list.

UMD doesn't even make the list of top 20 public universities

Additionally from WSJ:

Graduates of Stanford University who go into tech earn higher salaries than other schools’ graduates in the field, according to a ranking compiled by the Burning Glass Institute, a nonprofit that researches employment trends. Stanford grads make an average of $151,028, followed by Harvard at $149,934. Highest public school is UC Berkeley at $140,960 and the lowest at #20 is UNC at $114,076.

Again, UMD doesn't even make the list of Top 20 public universities.

It's like why would anyone even bother attending, right?

that's not what I stated. No argument that Harvard is prestigious, just not necessarily a top CS school.

Also, how much the graduate makes in a vacuum doesn't mean much. More students at Harvard come from well connected and wealthy families than students from UMD. So, it's not surprising that Harvard grads make more. Also, locality of the job plays a role in the salary. I used to work for a FAANG in SV.

Say what you like, but most serious CS students wouldn't choose Harvard for their CS program over UMD CS program. Sure, the name is more prestigious, and a student may choose Harvard for that, but the CS program is not.

OK. let's forget about Harvard and just look at other public schools. You do realize you are going down the rabbit hole of essentially making stuff up to double-down on your position.

Engineering (UMD did not make the list):

1. UC Berkeley: $110,153
5. San Jose State: $105,180
8. UNC Chapel Hill: $104,036
11. Indiana University: $101,804
15. University of New Mexico: $100,033
20. Colorado School of Mines: $98,450

Tech (UMD did not make the list):

1. UC Berkeley: $140,960
2. Michigan: $127,406
5. Washington: $123,739
10. UVA (ugh...like a shot through the heart): $119,497
16. William & Mary: $115,049
20. UNC: $114,076

I think your friend may actually want to reconsider Harvard vs. UMD for CS, assuming cost is not a factor.

W&M appears to be the only public school ranked on the WSJ Tech pay list that does not have an Engineering department (even UNC has engineering, primarily biomedical). Considering engineering graduates typically pays 2X as much as average college graduates through the early career, this is a really good performance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Money matters but not the most important consideration. I was under the impression that UMD is on upward trajectory whilst W&M is moving opposite direction. I have been wondering about that.

UMD is on an upward trajectory for sure. Only 1/3 of the applicants were a cepte to UMD this year from my son’s very competitive MCPS. The last everal years at least 1/2 were accepted.

If your daughter would prefer a smaller school, she should not go to Maryland.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are equal in reputation so would let student pick which they prefer, assuming cost is similar.

They absolutely aren't

You're right. UMD is ranked higher (46) than WM (53).
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

And yet, according to Parchment, when applicants are admitted to both, they choose W&M over UMD-CP 70% to 30%. Revealed preference tells us a lot more than pseudoscience rankings.

preferences can be about many things, and not necessarily about academics.

Yes, but what makes a university “better” than another if not the revealed preference of a population who can choose between them? What you think is important is NOT the only criteria in evaluating a university. And there is no way accurate way to measure the “academics” between the two in a way that you can say flatly one is stronger than the other. Sure UMD is bigger and offers things that W&M does not, but what W&M does do I think it does quite well.

Certainly, it depends on when and who took the survey, and what their majors are.

Harvard is the most popular on parchment, but a serious student would choose UMD over Harvard for CS.

Parchment also shows Michigan State as top 20 most popular. You think an Econ major would choose Mich State over W&M?

Also, the stats on parchment for the colleges are almost 10 years old. A lot has changed in 10 years.

On what basis are you making that assertion?

The many high stats CS students I know, and yes, rankings.

For example, the number of published papers in CS coming out colleges: Harvard isn't on the list but UMD is.

https://csrankings.org/#/index?all&us

That list changes month to month but only slightly because it's based on the publications. But UMD is always somewhere on that list, and Harvard is not.

Look up most CS rankings.. Harvard is usually not up there. Harvard has the name prestige, but it's not really known for a top CS program.

I have a friend who went to Harvard for law; their DC is a CS major, and they didn't think their DC should apply to Harvard.

Published papers just means a school has a greater graduate/research focus. Says nothing about the actual quality of the program.

You're probably correct. UMD has an inferior CS program.

says someone not in CS.

I believe that was sarcasm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are equal in reputation so would let student pick which they prefer, assuming cost is similar.

They absolutely aren't

You're right. UMD is ranked higher (46) than WM (53).
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

And yet, according to Parchment, when applicants are admitted to both, they choose W&M over UMD-CP 70% to 30%. Revealed preference tells us a lot more than pseudoscience rankings.

preferences can be about many things, and not necessarily about academics.

Yes, but what makes a university “better” than another if not the revealed preference of a population who can choose between them? What you think is important is NOT the only criteria in evaluating a university. And there is no way accurate way to measure the “academics” between the two in a way that you can say flatly one is stronger than the other. Sure UMD is bigger and offers things that W&M does not, but what W&M does do I think it does quite well.

Certainly, it depends on when and who took the survey, and what their majors are.

Harvard is the most popular on parchment, but a serious student would choose UMD over Harvard for CS.

Parchment also shows Michigan State as top 20 most popular. You think an Econ major would choose Mich State over W&M?

Also, the stats on parchment for the colleges are almost 10 years old. A lot has changed in 10 years.

On what basis are you making that assertion?

The many high stats CS students I know, and yes, rankings.

For example, the number of published papers in CS coming out colleges: Harvard isn't on the list but UMD is.

https://csrankings.org/#/index?all&us

That list changes month to month but only slightly because it's based on the publications. But UMD is always somewhere on that list, and Harvard is not.

Look up most CS rankings.. Harvard is usually not up there. Harvard has the name prestige, but it's not really known for a top CS program.

I have a friend who went to Harvard for law; their DC is a CS major, and they didn't think their DC should apply to Harvard.

From WSJ:

Engineers who attended Harvard as undergraduates earn significantly more per year than graduates of other schools, according to a new ranking of colleges by Burning Glass, a nonprofit that researches employment trends.

The average annual engineering salary of Harvard graduates over their first 10 years in the field is $130,119. That’s a premium of nearly $40,000 a year over the median graduate’s average annual salary of $90,174. Stanford University and the California Institute of Technology are No. 2 and No. 3 on the private-school list.

UMD doesn't even make the list of top 20 public universities

Additionally from WSJ:

Graduates of Stanford University who go into tech earn higher salaries than other schools’ graduates in the field, according to a ranking compiled by the Burning Glass Institute, a nonprofit that researches employment trends. Stanford grads make an average of $151,028, followed by Harvard at $149,934. Highest public school is UC Berkeley at $140,960 and the lowest at #20 is UNC at $114,076.

Again, UMD doesn't even make the list of Top 20 public universities.

It's like why would anyone even bother attending, right?

that's not what I stated. No argument that Harvard is prestigious, just not necessarily a top CS school.

Also, how much the graduate makes in a vacuum doesn't mean much. More students at Harvard come from well connected and wealthy families than students from UMD. So, it's not surprising that Harvard grads make more. Also, locality of the job plays a role in the salary. I used to work for a FAANG in SV.

Say what you like, but most serious CS students wouldn't choose Harvard for their CS program over UMD CS program. Sure, the name is more prestigious, and a student may choose Harvard for that, but the CS program is not.

OK. let's forget about Harvard and just look at other public schools. You do realize you are going down the rabbit hole of essentially making stuff up to double-down on your position.

Engineering (UMD did not make the list):

1. UC Berkeley: $110,153
5. San Jose State: $105,180
8. UNC Chapel Hill: $104,036
11. Indiana University: $101,804
15. University of New Mexico: $100,033
20. Colorado School of Mines: $98,450

Tech (UMD did not make the list):

1. UC Berkeley: $140,960
2. Michigan: $127,406
5. Washington: $123,739
10. UVA (ugh...like a shot through the heart): $119,497
16. William & Mary: $115,049
20. UNC: $114,076

I think your friend may actually want to reconsider Harvard vs. UMD for CS, assuming cost is not a factor.

W&M appears to be the only public school ranked on the WSJ Tech pay list that does not have an Engineering department (even UNC has engineering, primarily biomedical). Considering engineering graduates typically pays 2X as much as average college graduates through the early career, this is a really good performance.

Which is why a salary list on WSJ isn't really a good indication of how great the program is. Who goes to W&M for engineering over UMD or even Purdue?

I know that list is not really meaningful because I went to SJSU and studied CS. That's a CSU school that churns out CS grads, but it's not hugely highly rated. It's a regional school, but it's literally in the middle of SV, and that's why the grads get paid a lot. $100K in SV is nothing. I worked for FAANG there. W&M isn't high on the list of noted CS colleges. UMD is, in part, because one of the founders of a FAANG is from UMD.

You're spouting a list made in a vacuum. I'm sure many of you are more educated than I am, but you certainly don't seem to be able to analyze that data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I think they are equal in reputation so would let student pick which they prefer, assuming cost is similar.

They absolutely aren't

You're right. UMD is ranked higher (46) than WM (53).
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

And yet, according to Parchment, when applicants are admitted to both, they choose W&M over UMD-CP 70% to 30%. Revealed preference tells us a lot more than pseudoscience rankings.

preferences can be about many things, and not necessarily about academics.

Yes, but what makes a university “better” than another if not the revealed preference of a population who can choose between them? What you think is important is NOT the only criteria in evaluating a university. And there is no way accurate way to measure the “academics” between the two in a way that you can say flatly one is stronger than the other. Sure UMD is bigger and offers things that W&M does not, but what W&M does do I think it does quite well.

Certainly, it depends on when and who took the survey, and what their majors are.

Harvard is the most popular on parchment, but a serious student would choose UMD over Harvard for CS.

Parchment also shows Michigan State as top 20 most popular. You think an Econ major would choose Mich State over W&M?

Also, the stats on parchment for the colleges are almost 10 years old. A lot has changed in 10 years.

On what basis are you making that assertion?

The many high stats CS students I know, and yes, rankings.

For example, the number of published papers in CS coming out colleges: Harvard isn't on the list but UMD is.

https://csrankings.org/#/index?all&us

That list changes month to month but only slightly because it's based on the publications. But UMD is always somewhere on that list, and Harvard is not.

Look up most CS rankings.. Harvard is usually not up there. Harvard has the name prestige, but it's not really known for a top CS program.

I have a friend who went to Harvard for law; their DC is a CS major, and they didn't think their DC should apply to Harvard.

Published papers just means a school has a greater graduate/research focus. Says nothing about the actual quality of the program.

You're probably correct. UMD has an inferior CS program.

says someone not in CS.

I believe that was sarcasm.

IDK.. some folks on here think W&M is better than UMD for Engineering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are equal in reputation so would let student pick which they prefer, assuming cost is similar.

They absolutely aren't

You're right. UMD is ranked higher (46) than WM (53).
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

And yet, according to Parchment, when applicants are admitted to both, they choose W&M over UMD-CP 70% to 30%. Revealed preference tells us a lot more than pseudoscience rankings.

preferences can be about many things, and not necessarily about academics.

Yes, but what makes a university “better” than another if not the revealed preference of a population who can choose between them? What you think is important is NOT the only criteria in evaluating a university. And there is no way accurate way to measure the “academics” between the two in a way that you can say flatly one is stronger than the other. Sure UMD is bigger and offers things that W&M does not, but what W&M does do I think it does quite well.

Certainly, it depends on when and who took the survey, and what their majors are.

Harvard is the most popular on parchment, but a serious student would choose UMD over Harvard for CS.

Parchment also shows Michigan State as top 20 most popular. You think an Econ major would choose Mich State over W&M?

Also, the stats on parchment for the colleges are almost 10 years old. A lot has changed in 10 years.

On what basis are you making that assertion?

The many high stats CS students I know, and yes, rankings.

For example, the number of published papers in CS coming out colleges: Harvard isn't on the list but UMD is.

https://csrankings.org/#/index?all&us

That list changes month to month but only slightly because it's based on the publications. But UMD is always somewhere on that list, and Harvard is not.

Look up most CS rankings.. Harvard is usually not up there. Harvard has the name prestige, but it's not really known for a top CS program.

I have a friend who went to Harvard for law; their DC is a CS major, and they didn't think their DC should apply to Harvard.

From WSJ:

Engineers who attended Harvard as undergraduates earn significantly more per year than graduates of other schools, according to a new ranking of colleges by Burning Glass, a nonprofit that researches employment trends.

The average annual engineering salary of Harvard graduates over their first 10 years in the field is $130,119. That’s a premium of nearly $40,000 a year over the median graduate’s average annual salary of $90,174. Stanford University and the California Institute of Technology are No. 2 and No. 3 on the private-school list.

UMD doesn't even make the list of top 20 public universities

Additionally from WSJ:

Graduates of Stanford University who go into tech earn higher salaries than other schools’ graduates in the field, according to a ranking compiled by the Burning Glass Institute, a nonprofit that researches employment trends. Stanford grads make an average of $151,028, followed by Harvard at $149,934. Highest public school is UC Berkeley at $140,960 and the lowest at #20 is UNC at $114,076.

Again, UMD doesn't even make the list of Top 20 public universities.

It's like why would anyone even bother attending, right?

that's not what I stated. No argument that Harvard is prestigious, just not necessarily a top CS school.

Also, how much the graduate makes in a vacuum doesn't mean much. More students at Harvard come from well connected and wealthy families than students from UMD. So, it's not surprising that Harvard grads make more. Also, locality of the job plays a role in the salary. I used to work for a FAANG in SV.

Say what you like, but most serious CS students wouldn't choose Harvard for their CS program over UMD CS program. Sure, the name is more prestigious, and a student may choose Harvard for that, but the CS program is not.

OK. let's forget about Harvard and just look at other public schools. You do realize you are going down the rabbit hole of essentially making stuff up to double-down on your position.

Engineering (UMD did not make the list):

1. UC Berkeley: $110,153
5. San Jose State: $105,180
8. UNC Chapel Hill: $104,036
11. Indiana University: $101,804
15. University of New Mexico: $100,033
20. Colorado School of Mines: $98,450

Tech (UMD did not make the list):

1. UC Berkeley: $140,960
2. Michigan: $127,406
5. Washington: $123,739
10. UVA (ugh...like a shot through the heart): $119,497
16. William & Mary: $115,049
20. UNC: $114,076

I think your friend may actually want to reconsider Harvard vs. UMD for CS, assuming cost is not a factor.

W&M appears to be the only public school ranked on the WSJ Tech pay list that does not have an Engineering department (even UNC has engineering, primarily biomedical). Considering engineering graduates typically pays 2X as much as average college graduates through the early career, this is a really good performance.

Which is why a salary list on WSJ isn't really a good indication of how great the program is. Who goes to W&M for engineering over UMD or even Purdue?

I know that list is not really meaningful because I went to SJSU and studied CS. That's a CSU school that churns out CS grads, but it's not hugely highly rated. It's a regional school, but it's literally in the middle of SV, and that's why the grads get paid a lot. $100K in SV is nothing. I worked for FAANG there. W&M isn't high on the list of noted CS colleges. UMD is, in part, because one of the founders of a FAANG is from UMD.

You're spouting a list made in a vacuum. I'm sure many of you are more educated than I am, but you certainly don't seem to be able to analyze that data.

Well, nobody because I guess W&M doesn't offer engineering. However, plenty of people work in Tech that are not engineers.

You bring up a fair point on SJSU...but what about Indiana? Or New Mexico? Why isn't UMD even on either list?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are equal in reputation so would let student pick which they prefer, assuming cost is similar.

They absolutely aren't

You're right. UMD is ranked higher (46) than WM (53).
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

And yet, according to Parchment, when applicants are admitted to both, they choose W&M over UMD-CP 70% to 30%. Revealed preference tells us a lot more than pseudoscience rankings.

preferences can be about many things, and not necessarily about academics.

Yes, but what makes a university “better” than another if not the revealed preference of a population who can choose between them? What you think is important is NOT the only criteria in evaluating a university. And there is no way accurate way to measure the “academics” between the two in a way that you can say flatly one is stronger than the other. Sure UMD is bigger and offers things that W&M does not, but what W&M does do I think it does quite well.

Certainly, it depends on when and who took the survey, and what their majors are.

Harvard is the most popular on parchment, but a serious student would choose UMD over Harvard for CS.

Parchment also shows Michigan State as top 20 most popular. You think an Econ major would choose Mich State over W&M?

Also, the stats on parchment for the colleges are almost 10 years old. A lot has changed in 10 years.

On what basis are you making that assertion?

The many high stats CS students I know, and yes, rankings.

For example, the number of published papers in CS coming out colleges: Harvard isn't on the list but UMD is.

https://csrankings.org/#/index?all&us

That list changes month to month but only slightly because it's based on the publications. But UMD is always somewhere on that list, and Harvard is not.

Look up most CS rankings.. Harvard is usually not up there. Harvard has the name prestige, but it's not really known for a top CS program.

I have a friend who went to Harvard for law; their DC is a CS major, and they didn't think their DC should apply to Harvard.

Published papers just means a school has a greater graduate/research focus. Says nothing about the actual quality of the program.

You're probably correct. UMD has an inferior CS program.

says someone not in CS.

I believe that was sarcasm.

IDK.. some folks on here think W&M is better than UMD for Engineering.

not many though. Those of us replying to OP's question re: UMD vs. W&M for Econ (not Engineering, not CS) were focused on what OP actually asked. The odd Tech & Engineering tangent here isn't related to where this thread started - which school is better for Econ and is W&M getting worse since OP noted it had fallen in the overall rankings while UMD had risen in the overall rankings.

- W&M proponent but of course they're not a hot spot for Engineering, lacking an Engineering school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are equal in reputation so would let student pick which they prefer, assuming cost is similar.

They absolutely aren't

You're right. UMD is ranked higher (46) than WM (53).
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

And yet, according to Parchment, when applicants are admitted to both, they choose W&M over UMD-CP 70% to 30%. Revealed preference tells us a lot more than pseudoscience rankings.

preferences can be about many things, and not necessarily about academics.

Yes, but what makes a university “better” than another if not the revealed preference of a population who can choose between them? What you think is important is NOT the only criteria in evaluating a university. And there is no way accurate way to measure the “academics” between the two in a way that you can say flatly one is stronger than the other. Sure UMD is bigger and offers things that W&M does not, but what W&M does do I think it does quite well.

Certainly, it depends on when and who took the survey, and what their majors are.

Harvard is the most popular on parchment, but a serious student would choose UMD over Harvard for CS.

Parchment also shows Michigan State as top 20 most popular. You think an Econ major would choose Mich State over W&M?

Also, the stats on parchment for the colleges are almost 10 years old. A lot has changed in 10 years.

On what basis are you making that assertion?

The many high stats CS students I know, and yes, rankings.

For example, the number of published papers in CS coming out colleges: Harvard isn't on the list but UMD is.

https://csrankings.org/#/index?all&us

That list changes month to month but only slightly because it's based on the publications. But UMD is always somewhere on that list, and Harvard is not.

Look up most CS rankings.. Harvard is usually not up there. Harvard has the name prestige, but it's not really known for a top CS program.

I have a friend who went to Harvard for law; their DC is a CS major, and they didn't think their DC should apply to Harvard.

Published papers just means a school has a greater graduate/research focus. Says nothing about the actual quality of the program.

You're probably correct. UMD has an inferior CS program.

says someone not in CS.

I believe that was sarcasm.

IDK.. some folks on here think W&M is better than UMD for Engineering.

Nice attempt at misdirection. The PP showed that W&M is on a WSJ list of top publics for pay in Tech sector. UMD is not.

Neither UMD or W&M appeared on the WSJ list for top publics for pay in Engineering. This is of course expected for W&M because it does not have Engineering. UMD does, but as indicated, it is not top 20.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are equal in reputation so would let student pick which they prefer, assuming cost is similar.

They absolutely aren't

You're right. UMD is ranked higher (46) than WM (53).
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

And yet, according to Parchment, when applicants are admitted to both, they choose W&M over UMD-CP 70% to 30%. Revealed preference tells us a lot more than pseudoscience rankings.

preferences can be about many things, and not necessarily about academics.

Yes, but what makes a university “better” than another if not the revealed preference of a population who can choose between them? What you think is important is NOT the only criteria in evaluating a university. And there is no way accurate way to measure the “academics” between the two in a way that you can say flatly one is stronger than the other. Sure UMD is bigger and offers things that W&M does not, but what W&M does do I think it does quite well.

Certainly, it depends on when and who took the survey, and what their majors are.

Harvard is the most popular on parchment, but a serious student would choose UMD over Harvard for CS.

Parchment also shows Michigan State as top 20 most popular. You think an Econ major would choose Mich State over W&M?

Also, the stats on parchment for the colleges are almost 10 years old. A lot has changed in 10 years.

On what basis are you making that assertion?

The many high stats CS students I know, and yes, rankings.

For example, the number of published papers in CS coming out colleges: Harvard isn't on the list but UMD is.

https://csrankings.org/#/index?all&us

That list changes month to month but only slightly because it's based on the publications. But UMD is always somewhere on that list, and Harvard is not.

Look up most CS rankings.. Harvard is usually not up there. Harvard has the name prestige, but it's not really known for a top CS program.

I have a friend who went to Harvard for law; their DC is a CS major, and they didn't think their DC should apply to Harvard.

Published papers just means a school has a greater graduate/research focus. Says nothing about the actual quality of the program.

You're probably correct. UMD has an inferior CS program.

says someone not in CS.

I believe that was sarcasm.

IDK.. some folks on here think W&M is better than UMD for Engineering.

Nice attempt at misdirection. The PP showed that W&M is on a WSJ list of top publics for pay in Tech sector. UMD is not.

Neither UMD or W&M appeared on the WSJ list for top publics for pay in Engineering. This is of course expected for W&M because it does not have Engineering. UMD does, but as indicated, it is not top 20.

^^ W&M appeared on the top publics for pay in tech which would be CS and Data Science

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are equal in reputation so would let student pick which they prefer, assuming cost is similar.

They absolutely aren't

You're right. UMD is ranked higher (46) than WM (53).
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

And yet, according to Parchment, when applicants are admitted to both, they choose W&M over UMD-CP 70% to 30%. Revealed preference tells us a lot more than pseudoscience rankings.

preferences can be about many things, and not necessarily about academics.

Yes, but what makes a university “better” than another if not the revealed preference of a population who can choose between them? What you think is important is NOT the only criteria in evaluating a university. And there is no way accurate way to measure the “academics” between the two in a way that you can say flatly one is stronger than the other. Sure UMD is bigger and offers things that W&M does not, but what W&M does do I think it does quite well.

Certainly, it depends on when and who took the survey, and what their majors are.

Harvard is the most popular on parchment, but a serious student would choose UMD over Harvard for CS.

Parchment also shows Michigan State as top 20 most popular. You think an Econ major would choose Mich State over W&M?

Also, the stats on parchment for the colleges are almost 10 years old. A lot has changed in 10 years.

On what basis are you making that assertion?

The many high stats CS students I know, and yes, rankings.

For example, the number of published papers in CS coming out colleges: Harvard isn't on the list but UMD is.

https://csrankings.org/#/index?all&us

That list changes month to month but only slightly because it's based on the publications. But UMD is always somewhere on that list, and Harvard is not.

Look up most CS rankings.. Harvard is usually not up there. Harvard has the name prestige, but it's not really known for a top CS program.

I have a friend who went to Harvard for law; their DC is a CS major, and they didn't think their DC should apply to Harvard.

Published papers just means a school has a greater graduate/research focus. Says nothing about the actual quality of the program.

You're probably correct. UMD has an inferior CS program.

says someone not in CS.

I believe that was sarcasm.

IDK.. some folks on here think W&M is better than UMD for Engineering.

Nice attempt at misdirection. The PP showed that W&M is on a WSJ list of top publics for pay in Tech sector. UMD is not.

Neither UMD or W&M appeared on the WSJ list for top publics for pay in Engineering. This is of course expected for W&M because it does not have Engineering. UMD does, but as indicated, it is not top 20.

^^ W&M appeared on the top publics for pay in tech which would be CS and Data Science

Neither makes the list for Data Science. They don't have a list specific to CS.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/top-colleges-high-paying-jobs-data-science-989e6d79