UMD or W&M

[Anonymous]

Just a reminder that OP's kid wants to be an economics major. Not CS. Not Engg.

[Anonymous]

W&M has a toxic “bro culture.” It is in a state lead by a Republican governor.

Over 30% of w&m is in a frat.

UMD all the way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:W&M has a toxic “bro culture.” It is in a state lead by a Republican governor.

Over 30% of w&m is in a frat.

UMD all the way.

I don’t think UMD is any position to talk about frats right now. Lol

Making kids eat their own feces. Nice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:W&M has a toxic “bro culture.” It is in a state lead by a Republican governor.

Over 30% of w&m is in a frat.

UMD all the way.

Virginia is a liberal state. Did Maryland's long time republican governor make it a conservative state?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I think they are equal in reputation so would let student pick which they prefer, assuming cost is similar.

They absolutely aren't

You're right. UMD is ranked higher (46) than WM (53).
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

And yet, according to Parchment, when applicants are admitted to both, they choose W&M over UMD-CP 70% to 30%. Revealed preference tells us a lot more than pseudoscience rankings.

preferences can be about many things, and not necessarily about academics.

Yes, but what makes a university “better” than another if not the revealed preference of a population who can choose between them? What you think is important is NOT the only criteria in evaluating a university. And there is no way accurate way to measure the “academics” between the two in a way that you can say flatly one is stronger than the other. Sure UMD is bigger and offers things that W&M does not, but what W&M does do I think it does quite well.

Certainly, it depends on when and who took the survey, and what their majors are.

Harvard is the most popular on parchment, but a serious student would choose UMD over Harvard for CS.

Parchment also shows Michigan State as top 20 most popular. You think an Econ major would choose Mich State over W&M?

Also, the stats on parchment for the colleges are almost 10 years old. A lot has changed in 10 years.

You are utterly fooling yourself.

People more concerned with prestige will choose Harvard CS. Serious CS students wouldn't choose Harvard for CS over UMD CS.

Delusion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are equal in reputation so would let student pick which they prefer, assuming cost is similar.

They absolutely aren't

Yes, UMD is better especially for CS or engineering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:W&M has a toxic “bro culture.” It is in a state lead by a Republican governor.

Over 30% of w&m is in a frat.

UMD all the way.

Someone is off their meds again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are equal in reputation so would let student pick which they prefer, assuming cost is similar.

They absolutely aren't

Yes, UMD is better especially for CS or engineering.

The OP is interested in Economics. You are commenting on CS and engineering.

If you want to consider CS and engineering, it has been pointed out that W&M does not have engineering. For CS, UMD supporters have pointed out higher ranking, but W&M supporters showed a report from WSJ that shows W&M grads working in technology (where CS grads may work) have higher salaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are equal in reputation so would let student pick which they prefer, assuming cost is similar.

They absolutely aren't

Yes, UMD is better especially for CS or engineering.

The OP is interested in Economics. You are commenting on CS and engineering.

If you want to consider CS and engineering, it has been pointed out that W&M does not have engineering. For CS, UMD supporters have pointed out higher ranking, but W&M supporters showed a report from WSJ that shows W&M grads working in technology (where CS grads may work) have higher salaries.

But those Eng and CS details are really irrelevant! OP asked about Econ and since that is a squishier major with more likelihood for grad school or MBA after it the overall caliber of the school - not any one specific non-Econ major - is what is relevant to OP’s question

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are equal in reputation so would let student pick which they prefer, assuming cost is similar.

They absolutely aren't

You're right. UMD is ranked higher (46) than WM (53).
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

And yet, according to Parchment, when applicants are admitted to both, they choose W&M over UMD-CP 70% to 30%. Revealed preference tells us a lot more than pseudoscience rankings.

preferences can be about many things, and not necessarily about academics.

Yes, but what makes a university “better” than another if not the revealed preference of a population who can choose between them? What you think is important is NOT the only criteria in evaluating a university. And there is no way accurate way to measure the “academics” between the two in a way that you can say flatly one is stronger than the other. Sure UMD is bigger and offers things that W&M does not, but what W&M does do I think it does quite well.

Certainly, it depends on when and who took the survey, and what their majors are.

Harvard is the most popular on parchment, but a serious student would choose UMD over Harvard for CS.

Parchment also shows Michigan State as top 20 most popular. You think an Econ major would choose Mich State over W&M?

Also, the stats on parchment for the colleges are almost 10 years old. A lot has changed in 10 years.

You are utterly fooling yourself.

People more concerned with prestige will choose Harvard CS. Serious CS students wouldn't choose Harvard for CS over UMD CS.

That's your assertion. It fits your narrative. My assertion is that the vast majority would choose Harvard for CS over UMD CS if they actually had that choice.

BTW, for high paying jobs in software, WSJ has Harvard #3 overall after Stanford and Princeton. UMD is not in the top 20 among public universities.

How many of those Harvard grads have family connections to get those high paying jobs vs UMD grads?

How many of them got into Harvard because of legacy or their wealth?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are equal in reputation so would let student pick which they prefer, assuming cost is similar.

They absolutely aren't

You're right. UMD is ranked higher (46) than WM (53).
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

And yet, according to Parchment, when applicants are admitted to both, they choose W&M over UMD-CP 70% to 30%. Revealed preference tells us a lot more than pseudoscience rankings.

preferences can be about many things, and not necessarily about academics.

Yes, but what makes a university “better” than another if not the revealed preference of a population who can choose between them? What you think is important is NOT the only criteria in evaluating a university. And there is no way accurate way to measure the “academics” between the two in a way that you can say flatly one is stronger than the other. Sure UMD is bigger and offers things that W&M does not, but what W&M does do I think it does quite well.

Certainly, it depends on when and who took the survey, and what their majors are.

Harvard is the most popular on parchment, but a serious student would choose UMD over Harvard for CS.

Parchment also shows Michigan State as top 20 most popular. You think an Econ major would choose Mich State over W&M?

Also, the stats on parchment for the colleges are almost 10 years old. A lot has changed in 10 years.

You are utterly fooling yourself.

People more concerned with prestige will choose Harvard CS. Serious CS students wouldn't choose Harvard for CS over UMD CS.

That's your assertion. It fits your narrative. My assertion is that the vast majority would choose Harvard for CS over UMD CS if they actually had that choice.

BTW, for high paying jobs in software, WSJ has Harvard #3 overall after Stanford and Princeton. UMD is not in the top 20 among public universities.

How many of those Harvard grads have family connections to get those high paying jobs vs UMD grads?

How many of them got into Harvard because of legacy or their wealth?

UMD isn't even appearing on the top 20 for salary on any if the WSJ lists except for finance, where they are 17 among publics. Putting aside top privates, which generally have significantly higher salaries, why isn't UMD ranking with these publics? Are you going to argue those publics have wealthy and connected students?

[Anonymous]

Those will have completely different feels. How about whichever one the kid likes better after visiting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are equal in reputation so would let student pick which they prefer, assuming cost is similar.

They absolutely aren't

You're right. UMD is ranked higher (46) than WM (53).
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

And yet, according to Parchment, when applicants are admitted to both, they choose W&M over UMD-CP 70% to 30%. Revealed preference tells us a lot more than pseudoscience rankings.

preferences can be about many things, and not necessarily about academics.

Yes, but what makes a university “better” than another if not the revealed preference of a population who can choose between them? What you think is important is NOT the only criteria in evaluating a university. And there is no way accurate way to measure the “academics” between the two in a way that you can say flatly one is stronger than the other. Sure UMD is bigger and offers things that W&M does not, but what W&M does do I think it does quite well.

Certainly, it depends on when and who took the survey, and what their majors are.

Harvard is the most popular on parchment, but a serious student would choose UMD over Harvard for CS.

Parchment also shows Michigan State as top 20 most popular. You think an Econ major would choose Mich State over W&M?

Also, the stats on parchment for the colleges are almost 10 years old. A lot has changed in 10 years.

You are utterly fooling yourself.

People more concerned with prestige will choose Harvard CS. Serious CS students wouldn't choose Harvard for CS over UMD CS.

That's your assertion. It fits your narrative. My assertion is that the vast majority would choose Harvard for CS over UMD CS if they actually had that choice.

BTW, for high paying jobs in software, WSJ has Harvard #3 overall after Stanford and Princeton. UMD is not in the top 20 among public universities.

How many of those Harvard grads have family connections to get those high paying jobs vs UMD grads?

How many of them got into Harvard because of legacy or their wealth?

UMD isn't even appearing on the top 20 for salary on any if the WSJ lists except for finance, where they are 17 among publics. Putting aside top privates, which generally have significantly higher salaries, why isn't UMD ranking with these publics? Are you going to argue those publics have wealthy and connected students?

CS is a big field. Not all CS jobs lead to $150K starting salary, especially when you come from a public school. Many of those grads don't have the family connections to get those cushy high paying jobs.

CS grads at UMD outnumber Finance grads. So, the average pay of a CS grad isn't going to be high since the numbers include grads who don't get those cushy high paying jobs.

Also, I can't see the WSJ list, so I don't know what methodology they are using. But, obviously, graduates with the family connections will make more than those who don't, no matter their major. That is something that will skew any list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UMD economics is a strong department with professors who are world-class. That brings with it a degree of exposure and a set of opportunities that have their own value. On the other hand, WM will have smaller classes and greater faculty attention from professors who are very good at economics and will be excellent teachers. Which will suit your Dc better?

OP I think this poster makes an excellent point.

Fwiw my kid faced a similar choice a few years ago. W and M Monroe vs UMD honors with a little scholarship. Financially, UMD made sense but W and M was financially doable. So it came down to what DS preferred.
The caliber of students is identical (see the CDS numbers at the end of my post).
W and M is a slac with small class sizes, a focus on writing and a compact campus. These were all attributes that appealed to my DS but when we visited he did not like the town itself- it felt too provincial.

He ultimately picked UMD (Stem focused major) His science classes have been good but big.

Humanities and social science classes mostly small (20-30 in many cases) and several classes have been taught by graduate students. Writing assignments are not as plentiful or as rigorous as they would be at a slac.

OTOH he has found it surprisingly easy to get research opportunities and been able to work quite closely with professors. All his friends are graduating with jobs (consulting , federal govt, engineering, finance) or going to graduate school (good PhD programs, medical school, law school).

UMD is a R1 (top tier research institution) just a metro ride away from Washington DC. If your child is interested in Economics, they have top faculty. Of course it is a massive department and your child will have to be highly motivated to take advantage of the research opportunities that exist on campus and the internship opportunities off campus.

Ultimately these are both great schools but very different and it will ultimately come down to fit and priorities. I hope they visit both before deciding.

William and Mary (2023 CDS with 45% reporting scores)

1365 (25th)
1450 (50th)
1510 (75th)

UMD (2023 CDS with 41% reporting scores)
1380 (25th)
1450 (50th)
1510 (75th)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are equal in reputation so would let student pick which they prefer, assuming cost is similar.

They absolutely aren't

You're right. UMD is ranked higher (46) than WM (53).
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

And yet, according to Parchment, when applicants are admitted to both, they choose W&M over UMD-CP 70% to 30%. Revealed preference tells us a lot more than pseudoscience rankings.

preferences can be about many things, and not necessarily about academics.

Yes, but what makes a university “better” than another if not the revealed preference of a population who can choose between them? What you think is important is NOT the only criteria in evaluating a university. And there is no way accurate way to measure the “academics” between the two in a way that you can say flatly one is stronger than the other. Sure UMD is bigger and offers things that W&M does not, but what W&M does do I think it does quite well.

Certainly, it depends on when and who took the survey, and what their majors are.

Harvard is the most popular on parchment, but a serious student would choose UMD over Harvard for CS.

Parchment also shows Michigan State as top 20 most popular. You think an Econ major would choose Mich State over W&M?

Also, the stats on parchment for the colleges are almost 10 years old. A lot has changed in 10 years.

You are utterly fooling yourself.

People more concerned with prestige will choose Harvard CS. Serious CS students wouldn't choose Harvard for CS over UMD CS.

That's your assertion. It fits your narrative. My assertion is that the vast majority would choose Harvard for CS over UMD CS if they actually had that choice.

BTW, for high paying jobs in software, WSJ has Harvard #3 overall after Stanford and Princeton. UMD is not in the top 20 among public universities.

How many of those Harvard grads have family connections to get those high paying jobs vs UMD grads?

How many of them got into Harvard because of legacy or their wealth?

UMD isn't even appearing on the top 20 for salary on any if the WSJ lists except for finance, where they are 17 among publics. Putting aside top privates, which generally have significantly higher salaries, why isn't UMD ranking with these publics? Are you going to argue those publics have wealthy and connected students?

CS is a big field. Not all CS jobs lead to $150K starting salary, especially when you come from a public school. Many of those grads don't have the family connections to get those cushy high paying jobs.

CS grads at UMD outnumber Finance grads. So, the average pay of a CS grad isn't going to be high since the numbers include grads who don't get those cushy high paying jobs.

Also, I can't see the WSJ list, so I don't know what methodology they are using. But, obviously, graduates with the family connections will make more than those who don't, no matter their major. That is something that will skew any list.

UMD isn’t even making the salary list for public colleges. That includes schools like Oklahoma and Indiana.

Stop with the BS family connections argument.