Transgender Chess Ban

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I commend this group from taking this approach.

Instead of reflexively bowing to the current trend, they are taking a "time out" to research the issue further.

Good for them.

Bowing to the current trend? The current trend is to freak out over trans-people.

I don't know anyone "freaking out" over trans-persons. I do, however, know many who are growing sick and tired of having this nonsense front and center all the time. YOu want to change your name, wear a dress, wear pants, etc., go right ahead. But demanding that everyone accommodate you in all aspects of your journey is immature and obnoxious.

"Nonsense?" Your lack of empathy is sociopathic.

Oh, that's convincing. Now I will accede to demands that all aspects of anyone and everyone's journey is accommodated at the international level...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Men consistently outperform women on spatial tasks, including mental rotation, which is the ability to identify how a 3-D object would appear if rotated in space. Now, a University of Iowa study shows a connection between this sex-linked ability and the structure of the parietal lobe, the brain region that controls this type of skill."

An ability that would seem very useful in chess.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081217124430.htm

Te spatial rotation test is a topic which has been used to justify gender differences since at least the 80s. It mainly has to do with very reaction time-sensitive actions. It has nothing to do with what chess masters do. While you might think that rotation helps you understand all of the rook's moves, a chess master instantly sees all of those positions by rote memory. They do not stare at the board and mentally trace the possible paths of individual pieces like beginners do. They operate strategically and based on a large mental database of games and proven attacks or defenses.

As for the main board, there is no global rotation of attacks and defense, because the board is anchored in space by the starting positions of white and black.

By analogy you could imagine a fighter pilot needs fast spatial rotation, but their general does not.

Womansplaining

[Anonymous]

I’m on board with categories in chest for biological male and biological female. But, if they are going to take away an award previously won, it should go both ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Men consistently outperform women on spatial tasks, including mental rotation, which is the ability to identify how a 3-D object would appear if rotated in space. Now, a University of Iowa study shows a connection between this sex-linked ability and the structure of the parietal lobe, the brain region that controls this type of skill."

An ability that would seem very useful in chess.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081217124430.htm

Te spatial rotation test is a topic which has been used to justify gender differences since at least the 80s. It mainly has to do with very reaction time-sensitive actions. It has nothing to do with what chess masters do. While you might think that rotation helps you understand all of the rook's moves, a chess master instantly sees all of those positions by rote memory. They do not stare at the board and mentally trace the possible paths of individual pieces like beginners do. They operate strategically and based on a large mental database of games and proven attacks or defenses.

As for the main board, there is no global rotation of attacks and defense, because the board is anchored in space by the starting positions of white and black.

By analogy you could imagine a fighter pilot needs fast spatial rotation, but their general does not.

Womansplaining

I am a man, and I am familiar with the research in question. I studied this in university.

[Anonymous]

What this comes down to is whether the female category is created to address issues of discrimination or differences in ability due to gender.

If it's discrimination, I totally understand. Create a women's series so that girls have someone to look up to. This increases their participation rates, which eventually makes chess a gender balanced competition. Some of the grandmaster comments suggest it, like Fischer who called women "weak and stupid", or Kasparov who said "Women, by their nature, are not exceptional chess players; they are not great fighters."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I commend this group from taking this approach.

Instead of reflexively bowing to the current trend, they are taking a "time out" to research the issue further.

Good for them.

Bowing to the current trend? The current trend is to freak out over trans-people.

I don't know anyone "freaking out" over trans-persons. I do, however, know many who are growing sick and tired of having this nonsense front and center all the time. YOu want to change your name, wear a dress, wear pants, etc., go right ahead. But demanding that everyone accommodate you in all aspects of your journey is immature and obnoxious.

"Nonsense?" Your lack of empathy is sociopathic.

Oh, that's convincing. Now I will accede to demands that all aspects of anyone and everyone's journey is accommodated at the international level...

There's a lot of distance between "the issues of transgender people is nonsense" and "acceding to all aspects of everyone's demands." The fact that you pretend not to understand that underscores your lack of empathy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I commend this group from taking this approach.

Instead of reflexively bowing to the current trend, they are taking a "time out" to research the issue further.

Good for them.

Bowing to the current trend? The current trend is to freak out over trans-people.

I don't know anyone "freaking out" over trans-persons. I do, however, know many who are growing sick and tired of having this nonsense front and center all the time. YOu want to change your name, wear a dress, wear pants, etc., go right ahead. But demanding that everyone accommodate you in all aspects of your journey is immature and obnoxious.

"Nonsense?" Your lack of empathy is sociopathic.

Oh, that's convincing. Now I will accede to demands that all aspects of anyone and everyone's journey is accommodated at the international level...

There's a lot of distance between "the issues of transgender people is nonsense" and "acceding to all aspects of everyone's demands." The fact that you pretend not to understand that underscores your lack of empathy.

There is no distance. Either you believe males can become females and vice versa or not. Simple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I commend this group from taking this approach.

Instead of reflexively bowing to the current trend, they are taking a "time out" to research the issue further.

Good for them.

Bowing to the current trend? The current trend is to freak out over trans-people.

I don't know anyone "freaking out" over trans-persons. I do, however, know many who are growing sick and tired of having this nonsense front and center all the time. YOu want to change your name, wear a dress, wear pants, etc., go right ahead. But demanding that everyone accommodate you in all aspects of your journey is immature and obnoxious.

"Nonsense?" Your lack of empathy is sociopathic.

Oh, that's convincing. Now I will accede to demands that all aspects of anyone and everyone's journey is accommodated at the international level...

There's a lot of distance between "the issues of transgender people is nonsense" and "acceding to all aspects of everyone's demands." The fact that you pretend not to understand that underscores your lack of empathy.

There is no distance. Either you believe males can become females and vice versa or not. Simple.

I thought the issue was gender not sex?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s some kind of tortured reasoning. They are just being bullies. It’s acceptable to harass transgender people and so now everyone is jumping on the bandwagon.

I simply don’t understand how anyone can be so cruel. There’s not a lot of acceptance of being transgender as it is and it’s gratuitous to keep piling on.

Replace "transgender" with "black" and step back 70 years and nothing would have changed.

There are so many people on this forum who would be dumping milkshakes on sit-in protestors and cheering the dogs and fire hoses if they had been born in the 1930s.

They'll try to tell you "oh no, I'd be all for civil rights if I was around back then, but this trans thing is different!"

It's not, and they wouldn't, but it's what they have to tell themselves to believe they're good people despite their bigoted beliefs.

Yeah. Cutting off body parts because you were born in the wrong body is similar to being black.

You must be out of your mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s some kind of tortured reasoning. They are just being bullies. It’s acceptable to harass transgender people and so now everyone is jumping on the bandwagon.

I simply don’t understand how anyone can be so cruel. There’s not a lot of acceptance of being transgender as it is and it’s gratuitous to keep piling on.

Replace "transgender" with "black" and step back 70 years and nothing would have changed.

There are so many people on this forum who would be dumping milkshakes on sit-in protestors and cheering the dogs and fire hoses if they had been born in the 1930s.

They'll try to tell you "oh no, I'd be all for civil rights if I was around back then, but this trans thing is different!"

It's not, and they wouldn't, but it's what they have to tell themselves to believe they're good people despite their bigoted beliefs.

Yeah. Cutting off body parts because you were born in the wrong body is similar to being black.

You must be out of your mind.

How they are treated by people like you sure is similar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I’m not going to wade into the absurd and overblown hysterics in this thread but the reason for this is that the real training advantages in chess start when children are young and when transwomen are still boys. Boys do not compete against girls. For whatever reason (prejudice, cultural bias against girls, earlier spatial brain development in boys, something else), the boys circuit is where there is both much more development and better competition. So, by the time the transwoman has this level of competition, she has been given access to a much larger and more advanced playing field than the female-sexed competitors. They are doing this because they want women to play chess, particularly internationally where women can’t remove hijabs etc., and allowing transwomen to play will stop that. It will also bar a lot of Muslim women from competition, and it is an area where Muslim women can shine and compete.

The people who are claiming this is just bias against trans people quite obviously know literally nothing about chess competition and development and sound profoundly hysterical and ignorant. They also clearly don’t care much or know much about international chess, nor about the conditions faced by women playing chess outside the US. It’s a myopic, US-centric, rather spoiled-sounding viewpoint.

wow, if what you are saying is true, then not only trans girls should be allowed to play with girls, but young girls should be allowed to play with young boys. you are stating squarely that the boys' circuits is where the best development and competition is and boys benefit from being exposed to it to the point that a transwoman who trained as a young person in the boys' ciscuit would have an unfair advantage over women who trained in girls' circuits. then eliminate gender divisions in chess. this is not 100 yard sprint or weight lifting, it's a brain game so let's all kids train and compete in the same circuits so they have the same training and if somebody decides to transition to another gender there will be no issues

Chess is not divided by gender. There's a general competition open up to everybody and a separate female only one to try and encourage young girls to play.

Ah, now I get it. Thank you. So the proposed policy makes sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I’m not going to wade into the absurd and overblown hysterics in this thread but the reason for this is that the real training advantages in chess start when children are young and when transwomen are still boys. Boys do not compete against girls. For whatever reason (prejudice, cultural bias against girls, earlier spatial brain development in boys, something else), the boys circuit is where there is both much more development and better competition. So, by the time the transwoman has this level of competition, she has been given access to a much larger and more advanced playing field than the female-sexed competitors. They are doing this because they want women to play chess, particularly internationally where women can’t remove hijabs etc., and allowing transwomen to play will stop that. It will also bar a lot of Muslim women from competition, and it is an area where Muslim women can shine and compete.

The people who are claiming this is just bias against trans people quite obviously know literally nothing about chess competition and development and sound profoundly hysterical and ignorant. They also clearly don’t care much or know much about international chess, nor about the conditions faced by women playing chess outside the US. It’s a myopic, US-centric, rather spoiled-sounding viewpoint.

What's your explanation for trans men giving up their titles from before they transitioned? It sure sounds like they're bigoted against trans people and this isn't about trans women specifically.

They aren't giving up their titles. They are still Female Grandmasters, which is from a separate competition.

https://doc.fide.com/docs/DOC/2FC2023/CM2_2023_45.pdf

4.1. Titles. If a player holds any of the women titles, but the gender has been changed
to a man, the women titles are to be abolished.

DP. That's inaccurate and a misleading selective quote. What it actually says is that the title is changed to reflect the new gender:

"4.1. Titles. If a player holds any of the women titles, but the gender has been changed
to a man, the women titles are to be abolished. Those can be renewed if the person
changes the gender back to a woman and can prove the ownership of the respective
FIDE ID that holds the title. The abolished women title may be transferred into a general
title of the same or lower level (e.g., WGM may be transferred into FM, WIM into CM,
etc.)."

I thought the titles was referring to holding championship belts. This makes more sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s some kind of tortured reasoning. They are just being bullies. It’s acceptable to harass transgender people and so now everyone is jumping on the bandwagon.

I simply don’t understand how anyone can be so cruel. There’s not a lot of acceptance of being transgender as it is and it’s gratuitous to keep piling on.

Replace "transgender" with "black" and step back 70 years and nothing would have changed.

There are so many people on this forum who would be dumping milkshakes on sit-in protestors and cheering the dogs and fire hoses if they had been born in the 1930s.

They'll try to tell you "oh no, I'd be all for civil rights if I was around back then, but this trans thing is different!"

It's not, and they wouldn't, but it's what they have to tell themselves to believe they're good people despite their bigoted beliefs.

Yeah. Cutting off body parts because you were born in the wrong body is similar to being black.

You must be out of your mind.

How they are treated by people like you sure is similar.

No. It's people like you who are fake sympathizers to the struggles and history of black people in this country. You use black people to make silly analogies that are completely off base.

Leave black people out this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I commend this group from taking this approach.

Instead of reflexively bowing to the current trend, they are taking a "time out" to research the issue further.

Good for them.

Bowing to the current trend? The current trend is to freak out over trans-people.

I don't know anyone "freaking out" over trans-persons. I do, however, know many who are growing sick and tired of having this nonsense front and center all the time. YOu want to change your name, wear a dress, wear pants, etc., go right ahead. But demanding that everyone accommodate you in all aspects of your journey is immature and obnoxious.

"Nonsense?" Your lack of empathy is sociopathic.

Oh, that's convincing. Now I will accede to demands that all aspects of anyone and everyone's journey is accommodated at the international level...

There's a lot of distance between "the issues of transgender people is nonsense" and "acceding to all aspects of everyone's demands." The fact that you pretend not to understand that underscores your lack of empathy.

There is no distance. Either you believe males can become females and vice versa or not. Simple.

I thought the issue was gender not sex?

Gender is nothing more than cultural and social attitudes about being a male or female (sex). Gender is often based on harmful sex stereotypes and should be abolished.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I commend this group from taking this approach.

Instead of reflexively bowing to the current trend, they are taking a "time out" to research the issue further.

Good for them.

Bowing to the current trend? The current trend is to freak out over trans-people.

I don't know anyone "freaking out" over trans-persons. I do, however, know many who are growing sick and tired of having this nonsense front and center all the time. YOu want to change your name, wear a dress, wear pants, etc., go right ahead. But demanding that everyone accommodate you in all aspects of your journey is immature and obnoxious.

"Nonsense?" Your lack of empathy is sociopathic.

Oh, that's convincing. Now I will accede to demands that all aspects of anyone and everyone's journey is accommodated at the international level...

There's a lot of distance between "the issues of transgender people is nonsense" and "acceding to all aspects of everyone's demands." The fact that you pretend not to understand that underscores your lack of empathy.

There is no distance. Either you believe males can become females and vice versa or not. Simple.

I thought the issue was gender not sex?

Gender is nothing more than cultural and social attitudes about being a male or female (sex). Gender is often based on harmful sex stereotypes and should be abolished.

No, thank you. I am a woman, not a female person.