My husband believes we seriously live in a matriarchy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those quick to claim there is no patriarchy typically have the most to lose from it being dismantled.

Would not the reverse apply just the same? Those yelling patriarchy the loudest have the most to gain from it's continued "existence".

Hahaha

I love quotation marks like it’s not real, like the earth isn’t “round” or we aren’t held to it by “gravity”.

Thank you. I thought that would be a nice touch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is he?

My mom always talked about how my (gentle, generally easy-going) dad was the head of the house, but she has a dominant personality that reigned supreme in our house, . She was generally a benevolent dictator, but her authority was definite. As a teenager, my dad once tried to talk to me about how he knew my mom was being unreasonable, but I should try to be patient, understanding, etc. I still regret calling him a doormat.

The point is that some people have take charge personalities and others are willing to let them. Other times, a partner can bully the other to the point that conforming to their wishes is easier than dealing with the drama that will come if they’re opposed. If conforming to their wishes leaves you with a negative feeling of 5.5 and opposing them cranks the negativity up to 11, the math is fairly simple. Most individual issues really aren’t that big a deal. Every relationship requires compromise and it’s not so bad giving in this time. The problem comes when someone has to give in every time.

In my relationship, my ex-husband became the manipulative bully. It wasn’t because he was sexist. He was simply a controlling jerk. He could be absolutely wonderful most of the time, until he wasn’t.

I have no idea about the actual dynamics of your relationship. Maybe you have a well-balanced relationship. He might even have more power than you do. I do know that in most relationships, as each member is an individual with strengths and weaknesses, one person will probably exert somewhat more influence, at least on the little everyday things (which is probably a beneficial, efficient system for a household). It really only matters if, when the other partner wants to assert their position, that it is given equal weight in the negotiation.

There are many matriarchy households. There are many patriarchy households. Many households may be based on roughly equal levels of authority, with the balance shifting situationally (one handles finance, while the other handles scheduling, one spends more time with the kids and has a better feel for how to handle them, and maybe one has special expertise with cars, gardening, home repair, etc.) I suspect a lot of families say you handle your (childhood) family the way you want and I’ll deal with mine. Each family establishes its own systems and hierarchy. Hopefully, it works for all involved, but that’s certainly not guaranteed.

What a load. Any woman knows things go the man’s way 80% of the time in 90% of the households.

We all know women get stuck with the majority of household tasks and child care tasks no matter how much bacon she brings home.

I wasn’t talking about 90% of households. I was talking about my personal experiences with households. Patriarchal households unquestionably exist and may outnumber matriarchal households. It doesn’t negate the existence of matriarchal households, the fact that I was raised in a matriarchal household, or the possibility that OP’s family could be structured as a matriarchy.

Moreover, while division of labor is an important question for any household, it is separate from the question of whether either the “matriarchy” or “patriarchy”term applies. Those terms relate to the division of power, which may affect the division of labor but is not defined by it. Theoretically, a woman whose husband provides her with a maid, cook, nanny, chauffeur, etc., might not get stuck with any household or childcare tasks, and might not be obligated to bring home the bacon, but that doesn’t rule out the possibility that her household is run as a patriarchy.

You’re trying to make societal judgements. I agree that socially, men have generally held more power and influence than women (although that’s gradually changing). Individual relationships/families, however, find their own balance. Some personalities are more assertive, others are less so. Those traits are not gender dependent. I’ve known some very formidable individuals (both men and women) and some very easy going individuals (both men and women). Both traits have social value, and both traits can be problematic when taken to an extreme. The resulting relationship balance can be anywhere on the spectrum from a strong patriarchy to a strong matriarchy, and it may be completely distinct from how the individuals react to society in general. I have no idea if OP’s family is a matriarchy, a patriarchy, or a perfectly balanced egalitarian relationship. I only know that a determination can only be made by looking at the power balance within that specific relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And that he is oppressed by women such as his mother and myself.

Is he delulu?

The man used to wear the pants in the family. But now, she's always trying to pull them down , so you gotta decide what's more important to you, peace in the family or standing up to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband too! Any time I point out discrimination against women, he immediately counters with how oppressed white men are these days, and how the tables have turned against him.

My husband too!! When did white men become oppressed? I thought they were the oppressors?

In what way? I’m trying to understand how woman are paid 83.1% of what men are paid (per 2021 numbers), don’t have rights over their own reproductive system in at least a third of the states (as of 2023), are 10% of Fortune 500 CEOs (as of 2023) , dropped out of the workforce more when COVID hit due to family responsibilities AND still handle most of the household tasks even when working full time per every survey I’ve seen. How can white men be the most oppressed and still on top by every metric or is this a “compared to 1950 when it was okay that women made 60% of what men made …”.

My favorite is the “oh you can’t say anything without …” and yet do you think people in the past didn’t have to hold their tongue against true injustice to keep their jobs or even their lives? My parents definitely had to in order to stay employed.

Women earn less because they, by choice, select careers and jobs that pay less. Typically because they are less unpleasant and more flexible jobs.

This has been asked and answered in DOL studies since as early as the Clinton era.

The careers that pay less do so because they’re traditionally considered “women’s work” and women weren’t the ones who supported the family. Nursing, teaching, child care, social work. How are those easier? Even if women choose flexible jobs, why do they do that? Because they’re also expected to be the primary parent.

Pay isn’t based on difficulty. It’s based on the amount of money the labor makes and the perceived value by the one signing the pay checks.

Roofers work really hard, but they’re not paid very much. Same with landscapers.

On the other hand, lobbyists are paid very well.

It’s not about “traditional gender roles” at all. We just don’t value “hard work” we value ROI, and usually roi measured in the quarter or year… not even long term.

If it’s done by men. The reality is that most people still perceive men > women and every thing women do Ie work, art etc is considered to be less than.

This. And there are clear statistics showing how once a profession becomes dominated by women, its pay decreases in real terms. It has occurred both in teaching, which, when a male
Profession, was considered decently paid, and it occurred in reverse in computer coding, which, which a female profession, was considered clerical and therefore was low paid.

Do you ever stop to do a tiny bit of research and question your priors when you encounter outright propaganda like this? Or do you just swallow it up without a second thought?

To be clear, you’re saying The Atlantic is “outright propaganda” now?

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/what-programmings-past-reveals-about-todays-gender-pay-gap/498797/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And that he is oppressed by women such as his mother and myself.

Is he delulu?

Troll

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband too! Any time I point out discrimination against women, he immediately counters with how oppressed white men are these days, and how the tables have turned against him.

My husband too!! When did white men become oppressed? I thought they were the oppressors?

In what way? I’m trying to understand how woman are paid 83.1% of what men are paid (per 2021 numbers), don’t have rights over their own reproductive system in at least a third of the states (as of 2023), are 10% of Fortune 500 CEOs (as of 2023) , dropped out of the workforce more when COVID hit due to family responsibilities AND still handle most of the household tasks even when working full time per every survey I’ve seen. How can white men be the most oppressed and still on top by every metric or is this a “compared to 1950 when it was okay that women made 60% of what men made …”.

My favorite is the “oh you can’t say anything without …” and yet do you think people in the past didn’t have to hold their tongue against true injustice to keep their jobs or even their lives? My parents definitely had to in order to stay employed.

Women earn less because they, by choice, select careers and jobs that pay less. Typically because they are less unpleasant and more flexible jobs.

This has been asked and answered in DOL studies since as early as the Clinton era.

The careers that pay less do so because they’re traditionally considered “women’s work” and women weren’t the ones who supported the family. Nursing, teaching, child care, social work. How are those easier? Even if women choose flexible jobs, why do they do that? Because they’re also expected to be the primary parent.

Pay isn’t based on difficulty. It’s based on the amount of money the labor makes and the perceived value by the one signing the pay checks.

Roofers work really hard, but they’re not paid very much. Same with landscapers.

On the other hand, lobbyists are paid very well.

It’s not about “traditional gender roles” at all. We just don’t value “hard work” we value ROI, and usually roi measured in the quarter or year… not even long term.

If it’s done by men. The reality is that most people still perceive men > women and every thing women do Ie work, art etc is considered to be less than.

This. And there are clear statistics showing how once a profession becomes dominated by women, its pay decreases in real terms. It has occurred both in teaching, which, when a male
Profession, was considered decently paid, and it occurred in reverse in computer coding, which, which a female profession, was considered clerical and therefore was low paid.

Do you ever stop to do a tiny bit of research and question your priors when you encounter outright propaganda like this? Or do you just swallow it up without a second thought?

To be clear, you’re saying The Atlantic is “outright propaganda” now?

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/what-programmings-past-reveals-about-todays-gender-pay-gap/498797/

Yes, a "computer programmer" back then was akin to a data entry specialist and not very much like what a software engineer does today. They are playing word games and engaging in dishonest sleight of hand, as usual.

Don't let that stop your train though!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband too! Any time I point out discrimination against women, he immediately counters with how oppressed white men are these days, and how the tables have turned against him.

My husband too!! When did white men become oppressed? I thought they were the oppressors?

In what way? I’m trying to understand how woman are paid 83.1% of what men are paid (per 2021 numbers), don’t have rights over their own reproductive system in at least a third of the states (as of 2023), are 10% of Fortune 500 CEOs (as of 2023) , dropped out of the workforce more when COVID hit due to family responsibilities AND still handle most of the household tasks even when working full time per every survey I’ve seen. How can white men be the most oppressed and still on top by every metric or is this a “compared to 1950 when it was okay that women made 60% of what men made …”.

My favorite is the “oh you can’t say anything without …” and yet do you think people in the past didn’t have to hold their tongue against true injustice to keep their jobs or even their lives? My parents definitely had to in order to stay employed.

Women earn less because they, by choice, select careers and jobs that pay less. Typically because they are less unpleasant and more flexible jobs.

This has been asked and answered in DOL studies since as early as the Clinton era.

The careers that pay less do so because they’re traditionally considered “women’s work” and women weren’t the ones who supported the family. Nursing, teaching, child care, social work. How are those easier? Even if women choose flexible jobs, why do they do that? Because they’re also expected to be the primary parent.

Pay isn’t based on difficulty. It’s based on the amount of money the labor makes and the perceived value by the one signing the pay checks.

Roofers work really hard, but they’re not paid very much. Same with landscapers.

On the other hand, lobbyists are paid very well.

It’s not about “traditional gender roles” at all. We just don’t value “hard work” we value ROI, and usually roi measured in the quarter or year… not even long term.

If it’s done by men. The reality is that most people still perceive men > women and every thing women do Ie work, art etc is considered to be less than.

This. And there are clear statistics showing how once a profession becomes dominated by women, its pay decreases in real terms. It has occurred both in teaching, which, when a male
Profession, was considered decently paid, and it occurred in reverse in computer coding, which, which a female profession, was considered clerical and therefore was low paid.

Do you ever stop to do a tiny bit of research and question your priors when you encounter outright propaganda like this? Or do you just swallow it up without a second thought?

To be clear, you’re saying The Atlantic is “outright propaganda” now?

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/what-programmings-past-reveals-about-todays-gender-pay-gap/498797/

Yes, a "computer programmer" back then was akin to a data entry specialist and not very much like what a software engineer does today. They are playing word games and engaging in dishonest sleight of hand, as usual.

Don't let that stop your train though!

Wow tell me you didn’t read the article
Without telling me you didn’t read the article.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband too! Any time I point out discrimination against women, he immediately counters with how oppressed white men are these days, and how the tables have turned against him.

My husband too!! When did white men become oppressed? I thought they were the oppressors?

In what way? I’m trying to understand how woman are paid 83.1% of what men are paid (per 2021 numbers), don’t have rights over their own reproductive system in at least a third of the states (as of 2023), are 10% of Fortune 500 CEOs (as of 2023) , dropped out of the workforce more when COVID hit due to family responsibilities AND still handle most of the household tasks even when working full time per every survey I’ve seen. How can white men be the most oppressed and still on top by every metric or is this a “compared to 1950 when it was okay that women made 60% of what men made …”.

My favorite is the “oh you can’t say anything without …” and yet do you think people in the past didn’t have to hold their tongue against true injustice to keep their jobs or even their lives? My parents definitely had to in order to stay employed.

Women earn less because they, by choice, select careers and jobs that pay less. Typically because they are less unpleasant and more flexible jobs.

This has been asked and answered in DOL studies since as early as the Clinton era.

The careers that pay less do so because they’re traditionally considered “women’s work” and women weren’t the ones who supported the family. Nursing, teaching, child care, social work. How are those easier? Even if women choose flexible jobs, why do they do that? Because they’re also expected to be the primary parent.

Pay isn’t based on difficulty. It’s based on the amount of money the labor makes and the perceived value by the one signing the pay checks.

Roofers work really hard, but they’re not paid very much. Same with landscapers.

On the other hand, lobbyists are paid very well.

It’s not about “traditional gender roles” at all. We just don’t value “hard work” we value ROI, and usually roi measured in the quarter or year… not even long term.

If it’s done by men. The reality is that most people still perceive men > women and every thing women do Ie work, art etc is considered to be less than.

This. And there are clear statistics showing how once a profession becomes dominated by women, its pay decreases in real terms. It has occurred both in teaching, which, when a male
Profession, was considered decently paid, and it occurred in reverse in computer coding, which, which a female profession, was considered clerical and therefore was low paid.

Do you ever stop to do a tiny bit of research and question your priors when you encounter outright propaganda like this? Or do you just swallow it up without a second thought?

To be clear, you’re saying The Atlantic is “outright propaganda” now?

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/what-programmings-past-reveals-about-todays-gender-pay-gap/498797/

Yes, a "computer programmer" back then was akin to a data entry specialist and not very much like what a software engineer does today. They are playing word games and engaging in dishonest sleight of hand, as usual.

Don't let that stop your train though!

Wow tell me you didn’t read the article
Without telling me you didn’t read the article.

You read what makes you feel good and proclaim it as truth to the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband too! Any time I point out discrimination against women, he immediately counters with how oppressed white men are these days, and how the tables have turned against him.

My husband too!! When did white men become oppressed? I thought they were the oppressors?

In what way? I’m trying to understand how woman are paid 83.1% of what men are paid (per 2021 numbers), don’t have rights over their own reproductive system in at least a third of the states (as of 2023), are 10% of Fortune 500 CEOs (as of 2023) , dropped out of the workforce more when COVID hit due to family responsibilities AND still handle most of the household tasks even when working full time per every survey I’ve seen. How can white men be the most oppressed and still on top by every metric or is this a “compared to 1950 when it was okay that women made 60% of what men made …”.

My favorite is the “oh you can’t say anything without …” and yet do you think people in the past didn’t have to hold their tongue against true injustice to keep their jobs or even their lives? My parents definitely had to in order to stay employed.

Women earn less because they, by choice, select careers and jobs that pay less. Typically because they are less unpleasant and more flexible jobs.

This has been asked and answered in DOL studies since as early as the Clinton era.

The careers that pay less do so because they’re traditionally considered “women’s work” and women weren’t the ones who supported the family. Nursing, teaching, child care, social work. How are those easier? Even if women choose flexible jobs, why do they do that? Because they’re also expected to be the primary parent.

Pay isn’t based on difficulty. It’s based on the amount of money the labor makes and the perceived value by the one signing the pay checks.

Roofers work really hard, but they’re not paid very much. Same with landscapers.

On the other hand, lobbyists are paid very well.

It’s not about “traditional gender roles” at all. We just don’t value “hard work” we value ROI, and usually roi measured in the quarter or year… not even long term.

If it’s done by men. The reality is that most people still perceive men > women and every thing women do Ie work, art etc is considered to be less than.

This. And there are clear statistics showing how once a profession becomes dominated by women, its pay decreases in real terms. It has occurred both in teaching, which, when a male
Profession, was considered decently paid, and it occurred in reverse in computer coding, which, which a female profession, was considered clerical and therefore was low paid.

Do you ever stop to do a tiny bit of research and question your priors when you encounter outright propaganda like this? Or do you just swallow it up without a second thought?

To be clear, you’re saying The Atlantic is “outright propaganda” now?

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/what-programmings-past-reveals-about-todays-gender-pay-gap/498797/

Yes, a "computer programmer" back then was akin to a data entry specialist and not very much like what a software engineer does today. They are playing word games and engaging in dishonest sleight of hand, as usual.

Don't let that stop your train though!

Wow tell me you didn’t read the article
Without telling me you didn’t read the article.

You read what makes you feel good and proclaim it as truth to the world.

…which is why you didn’t read the article.

[Anonymous]

Wow what planet is that guy living on where he thinks everything is a matriarch and how can I get there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband too! Any time I point out discrimination against women, he immediately counters with how oppressed white men are these days, and how the tables have turned against him.

My husband too!! When did white men become oppressed? I thought they were the oppressors?

In what way? I’m trying to understand how woman are paid 83.1% of what men are paid (per 2021 numbers), don’t have rights over their own reproductive system in at least a third of the states (as of 2023), are 10% of Fortune 500 CEOs (as of 2023) , dropped out of the workforce more when COVID hit due to family responsibilities AND still handle most of the household tasks even when working full time per every survey I’ve seen. How can white men be the most oppressed and still on top by every metric or is this a “compared to 1950 when it was okay that women made 60% of what men made …”.

My favorite is the “oh you can’t say anything without …” and yet do you think people in the past didn’t have to hold their tongue against true injustice to keep their jobs or even their lives? My parents definitely had to in order to stay employed.

Women earn less because they, by choice, select careers and jobs that pay less. Typically because they are less unpleasant and more flexible jobs.

This has been asked and answered in DOL studies since as early as the Clinton era.

The careers that pay less do so because they’re traditionally considered “women’s work” and women weren’t the ones who supported the family. Nursing, teaching, child care, social work. How are those easier? Even if women choose flexible jobs, why do they do that? Because they’re also expected to be the primary parent.

Pay isn’t based on difficulty. It’s based on the amount of money the labor makes and the perceived value by the one signing the pay checks.

Roofers work really hard, but they’re not paid very much. Same with landscapers.

On the other hand, lobbyists are paid very well.

It’s not about “traditional gender roles” at all. We just don’t value “hard work” we value ROI, and usually roi measured in the quarter or year… not even long term.

If it’s done by men. The reality is that most people still perceive men > women and every thing women do Ie work, art etc is considered to be less than.

This. And there are clear statistics showing how once a profession becomes dominated by women, its pay decreases in real terms. It has occurred both in teaching, which, when a male
Profession, was considered decently paid, and it occurred in reverse in computer coding, which, which a female profession, was considered clerical and therefore was low paid.

Do you ever stop to do a tiny bit of research and question your priors when you encounter outright propaganda like this? Or do you just swallow it up without a second thought?

To be clear, you’re saying The Atlantic is “outright propaganda” now?

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/what-programmings-past-reveals-about-todays-gender-pay-gap/498797/

Yes, a "computer programmer" back then was akin to a data entry specialist and not very much like what a software engineer does today. They are playing word games and engaging in dishonest sleight of hand, as usual.

Don't let that stop your train though!

Wow tell me you didn’t read the article
Without telling me you didn’t read the article.

You read what makes you feel good and proclaim it as truth to the world.

…which is why you didn’t read the article.

I read everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband too! Any time I point out discrimination against women, he immediately counters with how oppressed white men are these days, and how the tables have turned against him.

My husband too!! When did white men become oppressed? I thought they were the oppressors?

In what way? I’m trying to understand how woman are paid 83.1% of what men are paid (per 2021 numbers), don’t have rights over their own reproductive system in at least a third of the states (as of 2023), are 10% of Fortune 500 CEOs (as of 2023) , dropped out of the workforce more when COVID hit due to family responsibilities AND still handle most of the household tasks even when working full time per every survey I’ve seen. How can white men be the most oppressed and still on top by every metric or is this a “compared to 1950 when it was okay that women made 60% of what men made …”.

My favorite is the “oh you can’t say anything without …” and yet do you think people in the past didn’t have to hold their tongue against true injustice to keep their jobs or even their lives? My parents definitely had to in order to stay employed.

Women earn less because they, by choice, select careers and jobs that pay less. Typically because they are less unpleasant and more flexible jobs.

This has been asked and answered in DOL studies since as early as the Clinton era.

The careers that pay less do so because they’re traditionally considered “women’s work” and women weren’t the ones who supported the family. Nursing, teaching, child care, social work. How are those easier? Even if women choose flexible jobs, why do they do that? Because they’re also expected to be the primary parent.

Pay isn’t based on difficulty. It’s based on the amount of money the labor makes and the perceived value by the one signing the pay checks.

Roofers work really hard, but they’re not paid very much. Same with landscapers.

On the other hand, lobbyists are paid very well.

It’s not about “traditional gender roles” at all. We just don’t value “hard work” we value ROI, and usually roi measured in the quarter or year… not even long term.

If it’s done by men. The reality is that most people still perceive men > women and every thing women do Ie work, art etc is considered to be less than.

This. And there are clear statistics showing how once a profession becomes dominated by women, its pay decreases in real terms. It has occurred both in teaching, which, when a male
Profession, was considered decently paid, and it occurred in reverse in computer coding, which, which a female profession, was considered clerical and therefore was low paid.

Do you ever stop to do a tiny bit of research and question your priors when you encounter outright propaganda like this? Or do you just swallow it up without a second thought?

To be clear, you’re saying The Atlantic is “outright propaganda” now?

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/what-programmings-past-reveals-about-todays-gender-pay-gap/498797/

Yes, a "computer programmer" back then was akin to a data entry specialist and not very much like what a software engineer does today. They are playing word games and engaging in dishonest sleight of hand, as usual.

Don't let that stop your train though!

Wow tell me you didn’t read the article
Without telling me you didn’t read the article.

You read what makes you feel good and proclaim it as truth to the world.

…which is why you didn’t read the article.

I read everything.

Then you’re aware your prior comments about computer programming are directly contradicted in it. It’s ok if you read something that diverges from your worldview every once it awhile— it doesn’t make it incorrect or untruthful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow what planet is that guy living on where he thinks everything is a matriarch and how can I get there?

I hear my husband say stuff like no one takes care of him, or that no one cares if he is sad, or that it doesn’t matter if you are a good person, people only care about what you can do for them. And I think, “yeah. Welcome to being an adult.”

But I think he imagines that there is this other subset of people who are just loved and cared for unconditionally without anything being expected of them in return. I don’t know who exactly he thinks these people are (other than children) or who is doing all of this caring (men?). But it feels real to him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband too! Any time I point out discrimination against women, he immediately counters with how oppressed white men are these days, and how the tables have turned against him.

My husband too!! When did white men become oppressed? I thought they were the oppressors?

In what way? I’m trying to understand how woman are paid 83.1% of what men are paid (per 2021 numbers), don’t have rights over their own reproductive system in at least a third of the states (as of 2023), are 10% of Fortune 500 CEOs (as of 2023) , dropped out of the workforce more when COVID hit due to family responsibilities AND still handle most of the household tasks even when working full time per every survey I’ve seen. How can white men be the most oppressed and still on top by every metric or is this a “compared to 1950 when it was okay that women made 60% of what men made …”.

My favorite is the “oh you can’t say anything without …” and yet do you think people in the past didn’t have to hold their tongue against true injustice to keep their jobs or even their lives? My parents definitely had to in order to stay employed.

Women earn less because they, by choice, select careers and jobs that pay less. Typically because they are less unpleasant and more flexible jobs.

This has been asked and answered in DOL studies since as early as the Clinton era.

The careers that pay less do so because they’re traditionally considered “women’s work” and women weren’t the ones who supported the family. Nursing, teaching, child care, social work. How are those easier? Even if women choose flexible jobs, why do they do that? Because they’re also expected to be the primary parent.

Pay isn’t based on difficulty. It’s based on the amount of money the labor makes and the perceived value by the one signing the pay checks.

Roofers work really hard, but they’re not paid very much. Same with landscapers.

On the other hand, lobbyists are paid very well.

It’s not about “traditional gender roles” at all. We just don’t value “hard work” we value ROI, and usually roi measured in the quarter or year… not even long term.

If it’s done by men. The reality is that most people still perceive men > women and every thing women do Ie work, art etc is considered to be less than.

This. And there are clear statistics showing how once a profession becomes dominated by women, its pay decreases in real terms. It has occurred both in teaching, which, when a male
Profession, was considered decently paid, and it occurred in reverse in computer coding, which, which a female profession, was considered clerical and therefore was low paid.

Do you ever stop to do a tiny bit of research and question your priors when you encounter outright propaganda like this? Or do you just swallow it up without a second thought?

To be clear, you’re saying The Atlantic is “outright propaganda” now?

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/what-programmings-past-reveals-about-todays-gender-pay-gap/498797/

Yes, a "computer programmer" back then was akin to a data entry specialist and not very much like what a software engineer does today. They are playing word games and engaging in dishonest sleight of hand, as usual.

Don't let that stop your train though!

Wow tell me you didn’t read the article
Without telling me you didn’t read the article.

You read what makes you feel good and proclaim it as truth to the world.

…which is why you didn’t read the article.

I read everything.

Then you’re aware your prior comments about computer programming are directly contradicted in it. It’s ok if you read something that diverges from your worldview every once it awhile— it doesn’t make it incorrect or untruthful.

No, I've read the history of this prior to this tendentious wave of propaganda. What a "computer programmer" did then is not the same as what it is considered now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow what planet is that guy living on where he thinks everything is a matriarch and how can I get there?

I hear my husband say stuff like no one takes care of him, or that no one cares if he is sad, or that it doesn’t matter if you are a good person, people only care about what you can do for them. And I think, “yeah. Welcome to being an adult.”

But I think he imagines that there is this other subset of people who are just loved and cared for unconditionally without anything being expected of them in return. I don’t know who exactly he thinks these people are (other than children) or who is doing all of this caring (men?). But it feels real to him.

That other subset is called "women". And the reason is because they are more inherently biologically valuable.

Way to invalidate your husbands feelings.