Systemic bias against Asian-Americans in schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait until you get to MS and HS when teacher choose award recipients. You'll see how few Asian American students especially East Asian students get awards for anything other than grades.

I feel like your child goes to the same school as mine but it's probably universal in this area. HS with high Asian American percentage. More than 20 awards for things like leadership. 0 Asian Americans.

the Asian American experience imo is better in flyover country than in mega-city suburbs

You are treated as an individual more.

Not really. People feel less threatened and are less likely to lash out at you, but you'll still run into bias and discrimination. You aren't white. You stick out like a sore thumb. People are just nicer about it. That doesn't make up for the lack of immigrant enclaves.

Nope. This is just scared racist logic from people who grow up in a ethnic enclave bubble, and then call it racism.

Compare people who grow up in ethnic ghettos to those that don’t, and you’ll see the difference every time.

Maybe I shouldn't have used the term "enclave" because it's conjuring an image of a poor, ghetto person. I more meant areas that have concentrations of Asians, like 15% Asians in their schools. Flyover country tends to lack that. There are benefits to being around people who share some of the same culture and traditions. Those areas can support businesses and restaurants that cater to Asians. If you can't see the benefits of that then I don't know what to say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like you've described a school that selects URMs. That's not anti-AAPI bias.

Fwiw, there a number of AAPI students in FCPS of different backgrounds and some are high achieving and others are average. Don't have all the same concerns.

It is biased if the selection is not based on merit.

Who defines what is merit? In NVA we had a selection process to TJ which was supposed to be merit but turns out about half the kids had access to the exam questions from having attended expensive outside prep.

Do you have a current student @TJHSST? Doubt it.

Yes, and they got in on actual merit. They did not pay for test access at one of the prep centers for wealthy families.

DP
Well, if true and proven re: the actual test copy, why wasn’t a formal investigation carried out? If proven fraud, why weren’t charges filed? that test-prep place is still open and functioning, isn’t it?
If what DCUM claims is true, why hasn’t it been covered in the New Yorker or The Atlantic?
If you have links I’ve missed, please share.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like you've described a school that selects URMs. That's not anti-AAPI bias.

Fwiw, there a number of AAPI students in FCPS of different backgrounds and some are high achieving and others are average. Don't have all the same concerns.

It is biased if the selection is not based on merit.

Who defines what is merit? In NVA we had a selection process to TJ which was supposed to be merit but turns out about half the kids had access to the exam questions from having attended expensive outside prep.

Do you have a current student @TJHSST? Doubt it.

Yes, and they got in on actual merit. They did not pay for test access at one of the prep centers for wealthy families.

DP
Well, if true and proven re: the actual test copy, why wasn’t a formal investigation carried out? If proven fraud, why weren’t charges filed? that test-prep place is still open and functioning, isn’t it?
If what DCUM claims is true, why hasn’t it been covered in the New Yorker or The Atlantic?
If you have links I’ve missed, please share.

What authority says Fairfax is required to address the situation through criminal prosecution rather than by adjusting the admissions process (as they did)?

What makes you think any NYC-based publication has any interest whatsoever in anything that happens in Fairfax County?

And as to the test-prep place, it’s a free country. You can send your children to whatever kind of private school you like. A taxpayer-funded public school like TJ has to retain reasonably broad political support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are at a school with a significant percentage of Asian-American students but mostly white teachers. We've noticed over the past year that when teachers have a choice to choose students for leadership positions such as for panels, if they have a request from an outside entity for students to speak with, student hosts for assemblies, or for leaders for class project they are not selecting AAPI students. It's really striking and when parents first brought this up to us I was skeptical but then we saw it happen again and again. They will choose students from other minority groups who comprise only a small percentage of students at the school so it is not all white students who are being chosen.

We moved to the area from California where we were at a school with a similar percentage of AAPI students and did not see this issue. What is going on? Is it just gross stereotyping that AAPI students are not good leaders or speakers? Are we just at a terrible school?

Well, at TJ Asians make up the majority which is amazing because we're such a small fraction of the population so if anything it might be biased in our favor. At least the criteria used to select students seem to favor us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like you've described a school that selects URMs. That's not anti-AAPI bias.

Fwiw, there a number of AAPI students in FCPS of different backgrounds and some are high achieving and others are average. Don't have all the same concerns.

It is biased if the selection is not based on merit.

Who defines what is merit? In NVA we had a selection process to TJ which was supposed to be merit but turns out about half the kids had access to the exam questions from having attended expensive outside prep.

Do you have a current student @TJHSST? Doubt it.

Yes, and they got in on actual merit. They did not pay for test access at one of the prep centers for wealthy families.

DP
Well, if true and proven re: the actual test copy, why wasn’t a formal investigation carried out? If proven fraud, why weren’t charges filed? that test-prep place is still open and functioning, isn’t it?
If what DCUM claims is true, why hasn’t it been covered in the New Yorker or The Atlantic?
If you have links I’ve missed, please share.

You realize that this has been going on as long as there have been tests. There were even credible allegations that Trump hired someone to take the SATs for him to get into UPenn. The wealthy have always used their wealth to game admissions. It's more of a wink wink situation.

[Anonymous]

Please, I’m not naive. I’m asking about fraud in TJHSST admissions. It is a public, taxpayer-funded magnet HS, not an Ivy private uni (Penn) which is free to shape its class with however many trumps or princelingoffspring as they see fit. ALDC, you know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait until you get to MS and HS when teacher choose award recipients. You'll see how few Asian American students especially East Asian students get awards for anything other than grades.

I feel like your child goes to the same school as mine but it's probably universal in this area. HS with high Asian American percentage. More than 20 awards for things like leadership. 0 Asian Americans.

+1 MCPS

Of course, they skip things like highest GPA, 4.0 GPA, etc... but they give out subject awards which is not based on grades, and very few of those recipients are Asian American. These awards get called out, but the "smart" kids don't get called out.

At our school, the smart kids get these awards. It's based on merit.

DC's school also skipped smart/working hard/achievement awards. No 4.0 awards or academic awards or even subject awards at all. They did give out only nebulous awards to two types of kids. White kids whose parents have connections at the school or who got awards from white teachers who look like them and kids who are URM. Not sure how I feel about it. My child is an URM who did not get an award FWIW. I liked that they recognized some kids who might not otherwise have been recognized but a lot of people noticed how insulting it was to that particular minority group.

[Anonymous]

HS. About 20-30 awards, did not count them. School is about 20% Asian. 1 Asian got an award. Rest of the school is mostly white, very few of other races but they represented a much higher percentage of awards. I admit I noticed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:HS. About 20-30 awards, did not count them. School is about 20% Asian. 1 Asian got an award. Rest of the school is mostly white, very few of other races but they represented a much higher percentage of awards. I admit I noticed.

Are you talking about those Most Punctual awards? Typically that crap is given to kids of the PTA so if you want them just go play that game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are at a school with a significant percentage of Asian-American students but mostly white teachers. We've noticed over the past year that when teachers have a choice to choose students for leadership positions such as for panels, if they have a request from an outside entity for students to speak with, student hosts for assemblies, or for leaders for class project they are not selecting AAPI students. It's really striking and when parents first brought this up to us I was skeptical but then we saw it happen again and again. They will choose students from other minority groups who comprise only a small percentage of students at the school so it is not all white students who are being chosen.

We moved to the area from California where we were at a school with a similar percentage of AAPI students and did not see this issue. What is going on? Is it just gross stereotyping that AAPI students are not good leaders or speakers? Are we just at a terrible school?

Not sure about all that but since Asians make up maybe 15% of the population in this area but occupy 70% of the spots at these advanced programs like TJ, if there's bias it's working in their favor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at a school with a significant percentage of Asian-American students but mostly white teachers. We've noticed over the past year that when teachers have a choice to choose students for leadership positions such as for panels, if they have a request from an outside entity for students to speak with, student hosts for assemblies, or for leaders for class project they are not selecting AAPI students. It's really striking and when parents first brought this up to us I was skeptical but then we saw it happen again and again. They will choose students from other minority groups who comprise only a small percentage of students at the school so it is not all white students who are being chosen.

We moved to the area from California where we were at a school with a similar percentage of AAPI students and did not see this issue. What is going on? Is it just gross stereotyping that AAPI students are not good leaders or speakers? Are we just at a terrible school?

Not sure about all that but since Asians make up maybe 15% of the population in this area but occupy 70% of the spots at these advanced programs like TJ, if there's bias it's working in their favor.

OP is not talking about specialized test-in schools like TJ but rather your typical neighborhood school. You know, where the (mostly white) teachers select students for various awards and positions purely on a subjective basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have heard teachers make stereotypical comments about Asian American students in social settings and sporting events many times. I have also had parents say things to me and about me (an American born person of Indian heritage) that are based on stereotypes. It’s very hurtful and I didn’t experience this in the midwest probably because thwre were fewer Asian American students in my area and people were not concerned about “cultural” changed. This area is tough.

Poli Sci 101

I'm not sure what it's like on the West Coast or Midwest but here the Asian community basically make supremacist arguments such as school academic clubs should all have Asian student leaders etc. We have large population of very poor Salvadoran students yet have to listen to complaints about the "negative" Asian stereotypes which almost all involve positive traits such as being assumed to be smart or able to answer a math question.

You hit the nail on the head - the Latino kids I see in my Marshall HS pyramid are mostly FARMS from the nearby apartment buildings. Their parents are not educated immigrants working the white collar jobs. Their cleaning our houses, in construction, restaurant industry, etc. Yes, not all Asian immigrants are highly educated, but lets face it, most are because we don't share a border with Asia. So please stop whining discrimination at every turn and just TALK to the teacher . Also, maybe try encouraging your kids to go into elementary and teaching profession if you want to see more diversity in your teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have heard teachers make stereotypical comments about Asian American students in social settings and sporting events many times. I have also had parents say things to me and about me (an American born person of Indian heritage) that are based on stereotypes. It’s very hurtful and I didn’t experience this in the midwest probably because thwre were fewer Asian American students in my area and people were not concerned about “cultural” changed. This area is tough.

Poli Sci 101

I'm not sure what it's like on the West Coast or Midwest but here the Asian community basically make supremacist arguments such as school academic clubs should all have Asian student leaders etc. We have large population of very poor Salvadoran students yet have to listen to complaints about the "negative" Asian stereotypes which almost all involve positive traits such as being assumed to be smart or able to answer a math question.

You hit the nail on the head - the Latino kids I see in my Marshall HS pyramid are mostly FARMS from the nearby apartment buildings. Their parents are not educated immigrants working the white collar jobs. Their cleaning our houses, in construction, restaurant industry, etc. Yes, not all Asian immigrants are highly educated, but lets face it, most are because we don't share a border with Asia. So please stop whining discrimination at every turn and just TALK to the teacher . Also, maybe try encouraging your kids to go into elementary and teaching profession if you want to see more diversity in your teachers.

Seriously, it’s so frustrating. Cry me a river the teacher assumes your Asian kid is smart and academically advanced. My very brown skinned Latino son read at a 2nd/3rd grade level when he entered K and was NOT put in the highest reading group with Asian students because the teacher assumed he couldn’t read. I emailed the teacher in November after a parent at Kumon asked about the differentiated homework from the highest reading group assuming my kid was in the group since my child was at a higher Kumon reading level than her child.

The teacher called me the next day and said she stopped testing my child at the beginning of the school year once he met the k standards because she assumed he didn’t know more. She tested him that day before calling me in the afternoon and said things like -I was blown away how elk he could read, how amazing, etc

So he finally got placed in the high reading group and was given harder work. My son told me who was in the group and one Asian student wasn’t even that advanced (he was at kumon too so I knew what level he was at). The teacher wrote on report card comments about how well he played soccer. Not kidding. It was several lines about his soccer skills and then added -he is a reader. But nothing about how advanced he was.

The stereotype of Asians being advanced works in their favor for the entirety of their school career, which allows them to often times automatically be placed in higher academic groups and be given harder/extra work.

[Anonymous]

The solution is to make everything random. Ask all of the kids who want to be leaders to put their names in a hat. No discrimination, no bias.

[Anonymous]

Nobody complains more about this kind of thing than Chinese Americans. I think they are relatively new participants in America's grievance Olympics, but - as in most things - they really excel.