Study on where DC criminals source illegal guns?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.baltimoremagazine.com/section/community/iron-pipeline-gun-violence-out-of-state-traffickers/

Yep.

"Webster’s subsequent work showed that if neighboring states tightened their gun laws, it could reduce the homicide rate by 25 percent or more. In Baltimore, that could correlate to 75 lives a year. Overall, states with weak gun purchasing requirements rank highest in gun homicide rates, including Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Georgia. Maryland, surrounded by states with weak gun laws, is the anomaly, ranking fifth."

So if we actually LISTEN TO THE POLICE EXPERTS, on this issue, we could reduce homicide rates locally.

So yes, please, let's actually BACK THE BLUE.

Actual data here.

Rest of the posts are just opinions.

Yes local crime reduction involves locally holding criminals accountable and also holds their weapons suppliers accountable. I can't believe this is even an argument. Everyone should support reduction in straw trafficking which yes, is easier to do in certain states per actual ATF data on where guns come from that are used in local crimes. Believing that we should make straw purchases more difficult and hold gun sellers accountable for knowingly participating in them doesn't mean people ALSO are saying defund the police or against holding criminals accountable.

It's ok to want to hold ALL criminals accountable and yes straw trafficking is a problem per the police who we should respect and listen to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even Mexican drug cartels source many of their guns from red states in the US.

Ever heard of how Obama's administration funneled thousands of weapons to Mexican drug cartels, and then lied about it?

Yes, we heard about it. That ill-conceived program was started under Bush, and was a field operation, not something ordered by the White House.

However, that debacle does also highlight that weak US gun laws also fuel gun violence in Mexico. 70% of guns recovered in Mexico came from the US and continue to come from the US. https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-21-322 . Straw buyers and the whole underground economy of gun runners funnel vastly more guns to Mexican cartels than that failed ATF op did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.baltimoremagazine.com/section/community/iron-pipeline-gun-violence-out-of-state-traffickers/

Yep.

"Webster’s subsequent work showed that if neighboring states tightened their gun laws, it could reduce the homicide rate by 25 percent or more. In Baltimore, that could correlate to 75 lives a year. Overall, states with weak gun purchasing requirements rank highest in gun homicide rates, including Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Georgia. Maryland, surrounded by states with weak gun laws, is the anomaly, ranking fifth."

So if we actually LISTEN TO THE POLICE EXPERTS, on this issue, we could reduce homicide rates locally.

So yes, please, let's actually BACK THE BLUE.

Actual data here.

Rest of the posts are just opinions.

Yes local crime reduction involves locally holding criminals accountable and also holds their weapons suppliers accountable. I can't believe this is even an argument. Everyone should support reduction in straw trafficking which yes, is easier to do in certain states per actual ATF data on where guns come from that are used in local crimes. Believing that we should make straw purchases more difficult and hold gun sellers accountable for knowingly participating in them doesn't mean people ALSO are saying defund the police or against holding criminals accountable.

It's ok to want to hold ALL criminals accountable and yes straw trafficking is a problem per the police who we should respect and listen to.

Yep - go back to the source - it's a LOT harder for criminals to get their hands on guns if we stop the flow at the source.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most gun crimes are committed by a small number of people who’ve been arrested a million times. Instead of fruitlessly complaining about what other states are doing, we could just convict the bad guys, put them in jail and (here’s the crazy part) leave them in jail. Google people on trial in DC. Their rap sheets are astounding.

I follow the police experts and research rather than random folks posting on DCUM.

You don’t - you just cherry pick selected evidence that already accords with your opinion.

Trying to control gun crime by reducing supply instead of punishing people who illegally carry/use guns is a fools errand that doesn’t pass the common sense test. There are almost 400 million firearms estimated to be circulating in the US, with almost 10 million more being added to the supply each year. We don’t have walls or checkpoints around American states and cities which allow us to search all the vehicles going in and out. You aren’t going to stop circulation of guns in this country. It’s fine to try to crack down on straw purchases, I favor it, but to think it will be anywhere close to as effective as cracking down on illegal users of guns is foolish.

[Anonymous]

P.s as I said though I favor cracking down on straw purchases too, there’s no reason not to and it will do some good, but the core of the issue is catching and punishing criminal gun users.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most gun crimes are committed by a small number of people who’ve been arrested a million times. Instead of fruitlessly complaining about what other states are doing, we could just convict the bad guys, put them in jail and (here’s the crazy part) leave them in jail. Google people on trial in DC. Their rap sheets are astounding.

I follow the police experts and research rather than random folks posting on DCUM.

You don’t - you just cherry pick selected evidence that already accords with your opinion.

Trying to control gun crime by reducing supply instead of punishing people who illegally carry/use guns is a fools errand that doesn’t pass the common sense test. There are almost 400 million firearms estimated to be circulating in the US, with almost 10 million more being added to the supply each year. We don’t have walls or checkpoints around American states and cities which allow us to search all the vehicles going in and out. You aren’t going to stop circulation of guns in this country. It’s fine to try to crack down on straw purchases, I favor it, but to think it will be anywhere close to as effective as cracking down on illegal users of guns is foolish.

Actually what I support the most is extension of blue state laws at a federal level. It would cut gun crime across the US efficiently (again because it's clear sensible gun legislation works when criminals and even Mexican drug cartels turn to certain specific US states for guns because they can't get them locally because of more stringent laws). Sadly, I don't see it happening in the near future, but I believe future generations will get it done, perhaps in 10-15 years with population trends. That's a separate thread for the political forum.

FWIW saying I believe this does not mean I believe police should be defunded or violent criminals shouldn't be prosecuted and jailed which is clearly a current, local problem. However I do feel the straw purchase issue gets sidelined and ignored when it's multiple pieces to a problem to be addressed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most gun crimes are committed by a small number of people who’ve been arrested a million times. Instead of fruitlessly complaining about what other states are doing, we could just convict the bad guys, put them in jail and (here’s the crazy part) leave them in jail. Google people on trial in DC. Their rap sheets are astounding.

I follow the police experts and research rather than random folks posting on DCUM.

You don’t - you just cherry pick selected evidence that already accords with your opinion.

Trying to control gun crime by reducing supply instead of punishing people who illegally carry/use guns is a fools errand that doesn’t pass the common sense test. There are almost 400 million firearms estimated to be circulating in the US, with almost 10 million more being added to the supply each year. We don’t have walls or checkpoints around American states and cities which allow us to search all the vehicles going in and out. You aren’t going to stop circulation of guns in this country. It’s fine to try to crack down on straw purchases, I favor it, but to think it will be anywhere close to as effective as cracking down on illegal users of guns is foolish.

Actually what I support the most is extension of blue state laws at a federal level. It would cut gun crime across the US efficiently (again because it's clear sensible gun legislation works when criminals and even Mexican drug cartels turn to certain specific US states for guns because they can't get them locally because of more stringent laws). Sadly, I don't see it happening in the near future, but I believe future generations will get it done, perhaps in 10-15 years with population trends. That's a separate thread for the political forum.

FWIW saying I believe this does not mean I believe police should be defunded or violent criminals shouldn't be prosecuted and jailed which is clearly a current, local problem. However I do feel the straw purchase issue gets sidelined and ignored when it's multiple pieces to a problem to be addressed.

Exactly. Criminals, gunrunners and cartels will seek out the weakest link where it comes to sourcing guns - and that is going to be whichever state has the weakest, most lax gun laws (invariably red states).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most gun crimes are committed by a small number of people who’ve been arrested a million times. Instead of fruitlessly complaining about what other states are doing, we could just convict the bad guys, put them in jail and (here’s the crazy part) leave them in jail. Google people on trial in DC. Their rap sheets are astounding.

I follow the police experts and research rather than random folks posting on DCUM.

You don’t - you just cherry pick selected evidence that already accords with your opinion.

Trying to control gun crime by reducing supply instead of punishing people who illegally carry/use guns is a fools errand that doesn’t pass the common sense test. There are almost 400 million firearms estimated to be circulating in the US, with almost 10 million more being added to the supply each year. We don’t have walls or checkpoints around American states and cities which allow us to search all the vehicles going in and out. You aren’t going to stop circulation of guns in this country. It’s fine to try to crack down on straw purchases, I favor it, but to think it will be anywhere close to as effective as cracking down on illegal users of guns is foolish.

Actually what I support the most is extension of blue state laws at a federal level. It would cut gun crime across the US efficiently (again because it's clear sensible gun legislation works when criminals and even Mexican drug cartels turn to certain specific US states for guns because they can't get them locally because of more stringent laws). Sadly, I don't see it happening in the near future, but I believe future generations will get it done, perhaps in 10-15 years with population trends. That's a separate thread for the political forum.

FWIW saying I believe this does not mean I believe police should be defunded or violent criminals shouldn't be prosecuted and jailed which is clearly a current, local problem. However I do feel the straw purchase issue gets sidelined and ignored when it's multiple pieces to a problem to be addressed.

Exactly. Criminals, gunrunners and cartels will seek out the weakest link where it comes to sourcing guns - and that is going to be whichever state has the weakest, most lax gun laws (invariably red states).

You mean the cartels that we should be stopping at the border, but we are not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most gun crimes are committed by a small number of people who’ve been arrested a million times. Instead of fruitlessly complaining about what other states are doing, we could just convict the bad guys, put them in jail and (here’s the crazy part) leave them in jail. Google people on trial in DC. Their rap sheets are astounding.

I follow the police experts and research rather than random folks posting on DCUM.

You don’t - you just cherry pick selected evidence that already accords with your opinion.

Trying to control gun crime by reducing supply instead of punishing people who illegally carry/use guns is a fools errand that doesn’t pass the common sense test. There are almost 400 million firearms estimated to be circulating in the US, with almost 10 million more being added to the supply each year. We don’t have walls or checkpoints around American states and cities which allow us to search all the vehicles going in and out. You aren’t going to stop circulation of guns in this country. It’s fine to try to crack down on straw purchases, I favor it, but to think it will be anywhere close to as effective as cracking down on illegal users of guns is foolish.

Actually what I support the most is extension of blue state laws at a federal level. It would cut gun crime across the US efficiently (again because it's clear sensible gun legislation works when criminals and even Mexican drug cartels turn to certain specific US states for guns because they can't get them locally because of more stringent laws). Sadly, I don't see it happening in the near future, but I believe future generations will get it done, perhaps in 10-15 years with population trends. That's a separate thread for the political forum.

FWIW saying I believe this does not mean I believe police should be defunded or violent criminals shouldn't be prosecuted and jailed which is clearly a current, local problem. However I do feel the straw purchase issue gets sidelined and ignored when it's multiple pieces to a problem to be addressed.

Exactly. Criminals, gunrunners and cartels will seek out the weakest link where it comes to sourcing guns - and that is going to be whichever state has the weakest, most lax gun laws (invariably red states).

The cartels bring millions of pounds of drugs and bus loads of human beings into the US every year. Do you honestly believe that “sensible” gun laws (hundreds of which already exist without even a ding against criminal behavior) will stop them from acquiring (or even manufacturing) firearms somewhere else (say, Central America, the Mid-East, and other war-torn places, not to mention countries that are happy to see the US embroiled in stride) and then importing them into a vast waiting market among the criminal underworld in the US? “Sensible” laws against interstate sales, against straw purchases, against possession by felons, and against the criminal misuse of firearms already exist at both the federal and state levels. They clearly don’t solve the problem. Because the problem isn’t inanimate objects you have an unreasoning fear of, grounded in your fear of your own unacknowkedged interior rage and violence. It’s criminals. Deal with the criminals and the problem goes away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most gun crimes are committed by a small number of people who’ve been arrested a million times. Instead of fruitlessly complaining about what other states are doing, we could just convict the bad guys, put them in jail and (here’s the crazy part) leave them in jail. Google people on trial in DC. Their rap sheets are astounding.

I follow the police experts and research rather than random folks posting on DCUM.

You don’t - you just cherry pick selected evidence that already accords with your opinion.

Trying to control gun crime by reducing supply instead of punishing people who illegally carry/use guns is a fools errand that doesn’t pass the common sense test. There are almost 400 million firearms estimated to be circulating in the US, with almost 10 million more being added to the supply each year. We don’t have walls or checkpoints around American states and cities which allow us to search all the vehicles going in and out. You aren’t going to stop circulation of guns in this country. It’s fine to try to crack down on straw purchases, I favor it, but to think it will be anywhere close to as effective as cracking down on illegal users of guns is foolish.

Actually what I support the most is extension of blue state laws at a federal level. It would cut gun crime across the US efficiently (again because it's clear sensible gun legislation works when criminals and even Mexican drug cartels turn to certain specific US states for guns because they can't get them locally because of more stringent laws). Sadly, I don't see it happening in the near future, but I believe future generations will get it done, perhaps in 10-15 years with population trends. That's a separate thread for the political forum.

FWIW saying I believe this does not mean I believe police should be defunded or violent criminals shouldn't be prosecuted and jailed which is clearly a current, local problem. However I do feel the straw purchase issue gets sidelined and ignored when it's multiple pieces to a problem to be addressed.

Exactly. Criminals, gunrunners and cartels will seek out the weakest link where it comes to sourcing guns - and that is going to be whichever state has the weakest, most lax gun laws (invariably red states).

The cartels bring millions of pounds of drugs and bus loads of human beings into the US every year. Do you honestly believe that “sensible” gun laws (hundreds of which already exist without even a ding against criminal behavior) will stop them from acquiring (or even manufacturing) firearms somewhere else (say, Central America, the Mid-East, and other war-torn places, not to mention countries that are happy to see the US embroiled in stride) and then importing them into a vast waiting market among the criminal underworld in the US? “Sensible” laws against interstate sales, against straw purchases, against possession by felons, and against the criminal misuse of firearms already exist at both the federal and state levels. They clearly don’t solve the problem. Because the problem isn’t inanimate objects you have an unreasoning fear of, grounded in your fear of your own unacknowkedged interior rage and violence. It’s criminals. Deal with the criminals and the problem goes away.

Q. If sensible gun laws don't work, why do local criminals source guns far away from red states to get guns?

A. Because local gun laws work.

See research by Baltimore law enforcement that found that if local states added sensible gun laws, Baltimore homicides would drop by 25%.

Backing the blue means not just funding them, but LISTENING TO THEM.

[Anonymous]

Sensible gun laws work based on actual research and data.

The idea that sensible gun laws don't work is based on.... somebody decided it and made up their mind without regard to research and data.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3978146/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32816544/

https://psycnet.apa.org/fulltext/2020-78672-001.html

https://www.jhsph.edu/research/centers-and-institutes/johns-hopkins-center-for-gun-violence-prevention-and-policy/_docs/Impact_of_Handgun.pdf

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26066959/

[Anonymous]

If guns were completely outlawed, they would be impossible to get just like it’s currently impossible for people to get illegal drugs…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most gun crimes are committed by a small number of people who’ve been arrested a million times. Instead of fruitlessly complaining about what other states are doing, we could just convict the bad guys, put them in jail and (here’s the crazy part) leave them in jail. Google people on trial in DC. Their rap sheets are astounding.

I follow the police experts and research rather than random folks posting on DCUM.

You don’t - you just cherry pick selected evidence that already accords with your opinion.

Trying to control gun crime by reducing supply instead of punishing people who illegally carry/use guns is a fools errand that doesn’t pass the common sense test. There are almost 400 million firearms estimated to be circulating in the US, with almost 10 million more being added to the supply each year. We don’t have walls or checkpoints around American states and cities which allow us to search all the vehicles going in and out. You aren’t going to stop circulation of guns in this country. It’s fine to try to crack down on straw purchases, I favor it, but to think it will be anywhere close to as effective as cracking down on illegal users of guns is foolish.

Actually what I support the most is extension of blue state laws at a federal level. It would cut gun crime across the US efficiently (again because it's clear sensible gun legislation works when criminals and even Mexican drug cartels turn to certain specific US states for guns because they can't get them locally because of more stringent laws). Sadly, I don't see it happening in the near future, but I believe future generations will get it done, perhaps in 10-15 years with population trends. That's a separate thread for the political forum.

FWIW saying I believe this does not mean I believe police should be defunded or violent criminals shouldn't be prosecuted and jailed which is clearly a current, local problem. However I do feel the straw purchase issue gets sidelined and ignored when it's multiple pieces to a problem to be addressed.

Exactly. Criminals, gunrunners and cartels will seek out the weakest link where it comes to sourcing guns - and that is going to be whichever state has the weakest, most lax gun laws (invariably red states).

The cartels bring millions of pounds of drugs and bus loads of human beings into the US every year. Do you honestly believe that “sensible” gun laws (hundreds of which already exist without even a ding against criminal behavior) will stop them from acquiring (or even manufacturing) firearms somewhere else (say, Central America, the Mid-East, and other war-torn places, not to mention countries that are happy to see the US embroiled in stride) and then importing them into a vast waiting market among the criminal underworld in the US? “Sensible” laws against interstate sales, against straw purchases, against possession by felons, and against the criminal misuse of firearms already exist at both the federal and state levels. They clearly don’t solve the problem. Because the problem isn’t inanimate objects you have an unreasoning fear of, grounded in your fear of your own unacknowkedged interior rage and violence. It’s criminals. Deal with the criminals and the problem goes away.

Q. If sensible gun laws don't work, why do local criminals source guns far away from red states to get guns?

A. Because local gun laws work.

See research by Baltimore law enforcement that found that if local states added sensible gun laws, Baltimore homicides would drop by 25%.

Backing the blue means not just funding them, but LISTENING TO THEM.

Crime predictably follows the path of least resistance. But “sensibly” attempting to close off one avenue by trammeling the rights of the overwhelming percentage of people doesn’t work because the criminal market, like all markets, adapts, and very quickly. Japan is an island with a centuries old anti weapons culture imposed by despots to secure their hold on power. Criminals still get all the guns they want. And nut jobs with political delusions make their own very effective firearms as the recent murder of a former prime minister demonstrates. Prosecute criminals, not objects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most gun crimes are committed by a small number of people who’ve been arrested a million times. Instead of fruitlessly complaining about what other states are doing, we could just convict the bad guys, put them in jail and (here’s the crazy part) leave them in jail. Google people on trial in DC. Their rap sheets are astounding.

I follow the police experts and research rather than random folks posting on DCUM.

You don’t - you just cherry pick selected evidence that already accords with your opinion.

Trying to control gun crime by reducing supply instead of punishing people who illegally carry/use guns is a fools errand that doesn’t pass the common sense test. There are almost 400 million firearms estimated to be circulating in the US, with almost 10 million more being added to the supply each year. We don’t have walls or checkpoints around American states and cities which allow us to search all the vehicles going in and out. You aren’t going to stop circulation of guns in this country. It’s fine to try to crack down on straw purchases, I favor it, but to think it will be anywhere close to as effective as cracking down on illegal users of guns is foolish.

Actually what I support the most is extension of blue state laws at a federal level. It would cut gun crime across the US efficiently (again because it's clear sensible gun legislation works when criminals and even Mexican drug cartels turn to certain specific US states for guns because they can't get them locally because of more stringent laws). Sadly, I don't see it happening in the near future, but I believe future generations will get it done, perhaps in 10-15 years with population trends. That's a separate thread for the political forum.

FWIW saying I believe this does not mean I believe police should be defunded or violent criminals shouldn't be prosecuted and jailed which is clearly a current, local problem. However I do feel the straw purchase issue gets sidelined and ignored when it's multiple pieces to a problem to be addressed.

Exactly. Criminals, gunrunners and cartels will seek out the weakest link where it comes to sourcing guns - and that is going to be whichever state has the weakest, most lax gun laws (invariably red states).

The cartels bring millions of pounds of drugs and bus loads of human beings into the US every year. Do you honestly believe that “sensible” gun laws (hundreds of which already exist without even a ding against criminal behavior) will stop them from acquiring (or even manufacturing) firearms somewhere else (say, Central America, the Mid-East, and other war-torn places, not to mention countries that are happy to see the US embroiled in stride) and then importing them into a vast waiting market among the criminal underworld in the US? “Sensible” laws against interstate sales, against straw purchases, against possession by felons, and against the criminal misuse of firearms already exist at both the federal and state levels. They clearly don’t solve the problem. Because the problem isn’t inanimate objects you have an unreasoning fear of, grounded in your fear of your own unacknowkedged interior rage and violence. It’s criminals. Deal with the criminals and the problem goes away.

Q. If sensible gun laws don't work, why do local criminals source guns far away from red states to get guns?

A. Because local gun laws work.

See research by Baltimore law enforcement that found that if local states added sensible gun laws, Baltimore homicides would drop by 25%.

Backing the blue means not just funding them, but LISTENING TO THEM.

Crime predictably follows the path of least resistance. But “sensibly” attempting to close off one avenue by trammeling the rights of the overwhelming percentage of people doesn’t work because the criminal market, like all markets, adapts, and very quickly. Japan is an island with a centuries old anti weapons culture imposed by despots to secure their hold on power. Criminals still get all the guns they want. And nut jobs with political delusions make their own very effective firearms as the recent murder of a former prime minister demonstrates. Prosecute criminals, not objects.

Sensible gun laws already exist in some blue states but not many red states. Sensible gun laws don't stop high gun ownership in Switzerland. I'm NOT saying don't prosecute criminals, I'm saying we make it easy for criminals then complain that we have criminals. We wouldn't have to prosecute for as much crime if we made it more difficult to commit in the first place.

Again, you're ignoring the actual data and research that has already showed impact of sensible gun laws on crime. Respond with data, not anecdotes and opinions.

[Anonymous]

Someday you DC residents need to quit blaming others for your problems and take control of the elements that you CAN control. You can districtsplain to VA until you turn purple that they should change gun laws to help YOU (news flash - VA has wayyy less crime than neighboring counties in MD and DC) but why would they do that? At the end of the day, you're not going to win on the gun front so you might as well enforce your own laws in your own city - but I guess it's easier to whine and cry than actually take any productive action. 🤷