Madison H.S. Parents - Principal Survey and Skills-Based Grading

[Anonymous]

Why don't they just do a three strikes drop the lowest three assignments so the kids can control the times they can't get around to it. This would be pretty simple and is pretty standard in many college classes that have a lot of psets.

[Anonymous]

Yikes I was planning to have my 7th grader attend Madison after he graduates from his K-8… glad to know about this now, so we can apply to privates!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. Some us us (and our kids) are doing fine with SBG. Not everyone thinks Madison has gone to hell in a handbasket. It's different. But not doomsday.

It sounds like you have a laid back kid who is happy getting by. I have one of those too. But my other kid that is especially driven is finding the grading process, particularly the lack of distinction between a b+ and a b- stressful and unfair. But it does remind me of the real world, where the less driven workers still end up getting paid (often) the same as the folks who go all out. So maybe this is a good lesson to learn early on, why put in a ton of effort for little gain.

He knows when he needs to put in more effort and knows when he's got it all down. I'd say that is a skill too. And when he hasn't done well on an assignment in math, for instance, he goes for extra help at warhawk time to improve skills, then does better on a later assesment. That's how it's supposed to work! If you can show mastery on a later opportunity, the earlier lower grade doesn't haunt you.

To the person thinking of continuing at private because of tjis discussion, I think you are making a very expensive decision on very poor information.

There is a reason to discuss gradung changes and there are up-sides and down-sides to EVERY system. This thread is a whole different level of drama than what is happening on the ground in the school. Who knows what will happen next year! But really, life is going on as it always has at Madison. It's the same as always...if you thought highly of it before, I would not get all worked up by this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yikes I was planning to have my 7th grader attend Madison after he graduates from his K-8… glad to know about this now, so we can apply to privates!

There will be grading policy overhauls by the time your kid gets to high school. Don’t assume private schools are any different. This system wasn’t a thought in my mind when my kid was in 7th. Schools switch things up every year and then each teacher has a different implementation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. Some us us (and our kids) are doing fine with SBG. Not everyone thinks Madison has gone to hell in a handbasket. It's different. But not doomsday.

It sounds like you have a laid back kid who is happy getting by. I have one of those too. But my other kid that is especially driven is finding the grading process, particularly the lack of distinction between a b+ and a b- stressful and unfair. But it does remind me of the real world, where the less driven workers still end up getting paid (often) the same as the folks who go all out. So maybe this is a good lesson to learn early on, why put in a ton of effort for little gain.

He knows when he needs to put in more effort and knows when he's got it all down. I'd say that is a skill too. And when he hasn't done well on an assignment in math, for instance, he goes for extra help at warhawk time to improve skills, then does better on a later assesment. That's how it's supposed to work! If you can show mastery on a later opportunity, the earlier lower grade doesn't haunt you.

To the person thinking of continuing at private because of tjis discussion, I think you are making a very expensive decision on very poor information.

There is a reason to discuss gradung changes and there are up-sides and down-sides to EVERY system. This thread is a whole different level of drama than what is happening on the ground in the school. Who knows what will happen next year! But really, life is going on as it always has at Madison. It's the same as always...if you thought highly of it before, I would not get all worked up by this thread.

Disagree. It sets the tone for academics and I have a kid here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Initial studies show that the achievement gap is reduced which is quite remarkable, so less As and less Fs and more Bs, Cs, and Ds. Some school districts in fact no longer use grades at all and instead grade with language describing the level of mastery attained.

And how many kids were in these studies? Was there an objective way of evaluating the achievement gap other than the grade they received using skills-based grading? I know that my child tells me that class is less interesting and no one does the work anymore, specifically when it comes to something the kids were supposed to be prepared to discuss, but no one bothered since it doesn't count. Kids regularly show up to honors and AP classes and fail the quizzes because they don't count. Part of the problem with skills-based grading is that it teaches kids that they don't have to do the work.

I'd like to see SOL scores and compare that to before and after skills-based grading.

Like most equity efforts, this is just a method to dedicate more of the teachers time and grading leniency to failing students and leave self sufficient students to fend for themselves while also removing rewards for their self sufficiency. Equity is always about replacing poor parenting and ignoring everyone else.

I also feel this is all due to the great school ratings but maybe that’s off. If you have a special needs student or a low income student, why wouldn’t you care more about how that area of great schools ranks compared to the state and national average more than how it compares to other students in the school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. Some us us (and our kids) are doing fine with SBG. Not everyone thinks Madison has gone to hell in a handbasket. It's different. But not doomsday.

It sounds like you have a laid back kid who is happy getting by. I have one of those too. But my other kid that is especially driven is finding the grading process, particularly the lack of distinction between a b+ and a b- stressful and unfair. But it does remind me of the real world, where the less driven workers still end up getting paid (often) the same as the folks who go all out. So maybe this is a good lesson to learn early on, why put in a ton of effort for little gain.

He knows when he needs to put in more effort and knows when he's got it all down. I'd say that is a skill too. And when he hasn't done well on an assignment in math, for instance, he goes for extra help at warhawk time to improve skills, then does better on a later assesment. That's how it's supposed to work! If you can show mastery on a later opportunity, the earlier lower grade doesn't haunt you.

To the person thinking of continuing at private because of tjis discussion, I think you are making a very expensive decision on very poor information.

There is a reason to discuss gradung changes and there are up-sides and down-sides to EVERY system. This thread is a whole different level of drama than what is happening on the ground in the school. Who knows what will happen next year! But really, life is going on as it always has at Madison. It's the same as always...if you thought highly of it before, I would not get all worked up by this thread.

Imagine the level of drama if they had instead fiddled with baseball or band..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. Some us us (and our kids) are doing fine with SBG. Not everyone thinks Madison has gone to hell in a handbasket. It's different. But not doomsday.

It sounds like you have a laid back kid who is happy getting by. I have one of those too. But my other kid that is especially driven is finding the grading process, particularly the lack of distinction between a b+ and a b- stressful and unfair. But it does remind me of the real world, where the less driven workers still end up getting paid (often) the same as the folks who go all out. So maybe this is a good lesson to learn early on, why put in a ton of effort for little gain.

He knows when he needs to put in more effort and knows when he's got it all down. I'd say that is a skill too. And when he hasn't done well on an assignment in math, for instance, he goes for extra help at warhawk time to improve skills, then does better on a later assesment. That's how it's supposed to work! If you can show mastery on a later opportunity, the earlier lower grade doesn't haunt you.

To the person thinking of continuing at private because of tjis discussion, I think you are making a very expensive decision on very poor information.

There is a reason to discuss gradung changes and there are up-sides and down-sides to EVERY system. This thread is a whole different level of drama than what is happening on the ground in the school. Who knows what will happen next year! But really, life is going on as it always has at Madison. It's the same as always...if you thought highly of it before, I would not get all worked up by this thread.

Imagine the level of drama if they had instead fiddled with baseball or band..

Yep. You should have seen the drama on DCUM last year when Madison considered moving the graduation ceremony out of the traditional DC location it had been using. All hell was breaking loose until those who couldn't deal with change got things switched back. There are some very strong opinions by a small grouo of Madison parents and they demand to be heard...that's for sure.

[Anonymous]

It's the same as always...if you thought highly of it before, I would not get all worked up by this thread.

The whole point of this discussion is that it is not what it was before. I get that you are ok, but as other posters have said this is incredibly frustrating and stressful to the high-achieving kids, it's also frustrating for kids and parents with IEPs. I talked to a parent whose kid has ADD and the kid finds it frustrating to work hard and then see a good grade gets replaced later. Same reaction in my kids with no IEP. If the only people are happy are the ones that like to do just what it takes, that should tell you something, but I don't think this is good for your kid either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Initial studies show that the achievement gap is reduced which is quite remarkable, so less As and less Fs and more Bs, Cs, and Ds. Some school districts in fact no longer use grades at all and instead grade with language describing the level of mastery attained.

And how many kids were in these studies? Was there an objective way of evaluating the achievement gap other than the grade they received using skills-based grading? I know that my child tells me that class is less interesting and no one does the work anymore, specifically when it comes to something the kids were supposed to be prepared to discuss, but no one bothered since it doesn't count. Kids regularly show up to honors and AP classes and fail the quizzes because they don't count. Part of the problem with skills-based grading is that it teaches kids that they don't have to do the work.

I'd like to see SOL scores and compare that to before and after skills-based grading.

Like most equity efforts, this is just a method to dedicate more of the teachers time and grading leniency to failing students and leave self sufficient students to fend for themselves while also removing rewards for their self sufficiency. Equity is always about replacing poor parenting and ignoring everyone else.

I also feel this is all due to the great school ratings but maybe that’s off. If you have a special needs student or a low income student, why wouldn’t you care more about how that area of great schools ranks compared to the state and national average more than how it compares to other students in the school?

I think it's also a way for principals to close the achievement gap so that all students have equal outcomes. Easier to just get rid of Fs without actually having to do the work of teaching the kids making Fs. Have less kids making As to close the gap. A way to make administration look like they are doing an amazing job with equity.

[Anonymous]

This is a sad situation, another historically good Fairfax County school being dragged down by educational experimentation. Apparently for the purpose of inflating the grades of those at the bottom by ignoring missed assignments, and suppressing the grades of those at the top that work hard. I suppose for the purpose of creating the appearance of a large mediocre middle, with no winners and no losers. But once real life hits, many will likely be losers, and consider their education from a supposedly “good school” in Fairfax County to be a complete failure.

High school is the time that students learn the work habits that are required to succeed in college, and life in general. Madison students will sadly forgo the important lesson that hard work/preparation leads to good grades, and individual success. Why study hard to master Newtonian mechanics in physics, when you can make it up later, hopefully, in electricity and magnetism to erase your poor effort in Newtonian mechanics. (These are two totally different topics covered in the 1st year Physics). Even if the student pulls this off, the chance to learn Newtonian mechanics (the basis for all mechanical engineering) in high school will be lost forever.

The workforce today is global. That means our students will have to compete with those from China, Japan, S.Korea, etc. for future jobs, even in US-based companies. And I can guarantee you they are not doing this nonsense in China, they would simply laugh in your face for even suggesting it.

Who is the bigger winner from all this ? Its Amazon (and the like), because they will have plenty of “drones” competing for their low-wage jobs due to their failed public education. But some of us had higher hopes for the future, and are paying ever increasing high property taxes to support, what is supposed to be, a “good” school district.

It’s just sad.

[Anonymous]

Why is this being pushed at Madison of all places? Is the new principal a true believer in SBG or does she just think she’ll be rewarded if she helps “close a gap”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is this being pushed at Madison of all places? Is the new principal a true believer in SBG or does she just think she’ll be rewarded if she helps “close a gap”?

I think it may have something to do with the way principals are assessed, but there is also a whole industry around this: conferences & training, opportunities for travel, that’s why I think there is an incentive for principals to constantly change things which ultimately takes away from a teacher’s ability to focus on teaching and providing feedback to students because they are always being asked to do more stuff. Teachers have no work/life balance because of this.

[Anonymous]

This switch to SBG was started before she became the principal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This switch to SBG was started before she became the principal.

Why is she continuing it then?