Madison H.S. Parents - Principal Survey and Skills-Based Grading

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know why it is that the low-income students at Madison have low grades compared to other schools of similar demographics which brings down the Great Schools ratings? On Niche and other ratings, the school ranks very highly but on great schools Madison has a 6 out of 10 and they all have an 8 out of 10. I've checked other schools of similar demographics around the state and Madison is higher in all areas except for this, so it seems counterproductive to bring down the top performers who are excelling compared to other schools. The grades for English and Biology SOLs specifically are not meeting standards for the state. There must be another way to actually bring up these scores and help these students rather than affecting everyone else. Other schools are able to do this without implementing some grading system to artificially close a gap. The equity rating Madison gets is based off these SOLs.

Other schools are absolutely not closing the gap. The equity scores and associated total GS scores are based on very skewed statistics from the SOL test results. The fact that GS shows some schools more favorably than Madison is a faulty artifact of their scoring method, not any meaningful result.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know why it is that the low-income students at Madison have low grades compared to other schools of similar demographics which brings down the Great Schools ratings? On Niche and other ratings, the school ranks very highly but on great schools Madison has a 6 out of 10 and they all have an 8 out of 10. I've checked other schools of similar demographics around the state and Madison is higher in all areas except for this, so it seems counterproductive to bring down the top performers who are excelling compared to other schools. The grades for English and Biology SOLs specifically are not meeting standards for the state. There must be another way to actually bring up these scores and help these students rather than affecting everyone else. Other schools are able to do this without implementing some grading system to artificially close a gap. The equity rating Madison gets is based off these SOLs.

Other schools are absolutely not closing the gap. The equity scores and associated total GS scores are based on very skewed statistics from the SOL test results. The fact that GS shows some schools more favorably than Madison is a faulty artifact of their scoring method, not any meaningful result.

One way to get rid of the low equity score is to not have low-income kids in the school! Look at Langley --- they don't get down-graded for having a disparity between mostly high performing kids and a smaller group of lower performing kids b/c they simply don't have any low income kids to speak of ! Voila! No "equity" gap.

The other way for a school not to get penalized for having a gap between higher performing kids and lower performing kids is to have the "upper" group just not be that great. Madison has a lot of very high performing kids. But there are schools where the bulk of the "upper kids" are more mediocre. As a result, the difference between groups is less stark than it is at Madison.

None of this grading stuff will make any difference for GS ratings. And, in fact, with high school kids taking far fewer SOL tests now, the GS ratings (based mainly on SOL types of tests) is becoming less and less accurate even for test scores. But, the whole Skills Based Grading will have no effect on SOL scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article reflects how cult-like the new equity religion can get. Not sure there is any way to turn things around in FCPS because we unwittingly elect people who largely buy into this, and in turn they hire people like Dr. Reid who have risen through the ranks by being good acolytes.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/restoring-america/fairness-justice/fairfax-trained-teachers-disregard-objections-equity-grading

Who is running these initiatives in FCPS? Where are they getting any proof that this is beneficial when there are results all of the US that says it doesn't help and hurts everyone? I think it's funny they call out the minimizer when that's exactly what that PTA mom was doing.

This is probably coming from Reid since closing the gap is her main objective. We need a SB that won't hire someone like this. The FCPS "grading for equity" and "navigating resistance" syllabus is found here: https://defendinged.org/incidents/fairfax-county-public-schools-provides-teachers-with-training-on-grading-for-equity-explains-that-parents-asking-for-data-is-a-lack-of-willingness-to-accept-the-narrative-in-the-numbers/

The presentation categorizes people who resist into “thinker,” “doer,” “believer,” “fairness-seeker,” and “minimizer.” For the “thinker,” the presentation states: “Resistance from the Thinker comes in a variety of ways, all with the same foundational formula: a request for ‘proof’ and the data to back it up.” Teachers are then told: “As the facilitator, have a few data points or research citations prepared.” If the “thinker” continues to persist, the presentation explains: “The data has been there for generations; needing ‘more’ of it is a lack of willingness to accept the narrative in the numbers.”

[Anonymous]

What this suggests to me is that they know the thinking behind equity grading is flawed and have identified arguments against it in order to shut any resistance to it/conversation about it down, because the intention all along was to implement it no matter what and with a tone of condescension directed at all who disagree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What this suggests to me is that they know the thinking behind equity grading is flawed and have identified arguments against it in order to shut any resistance to it/conversation about it down, because the intention all along was to implement it no matter what and with a tone of condescension directed at all who disagree.

They have given up trying to raise student performance because secretly they know this truth: Caring and supportive parents/guardians (regardless of SES) is the only solution to closing gaps.

A supportive parent can work a failed school system to ensure their kid achieves. A good school system, however, cannot lift a kid in a failed family. Yeah it happens once in a while but that is usually because the student has an enormous drive and executive function and achieves in spite of both.

School district money will not fix the gaps and neither will grading changes. But they may hide them.

[Anonymous]

Can Youngkin do some good and get on this and have a standardized system for grading at the high school level for any courses that count towards SOLs and college placement? Seems to me that Virginia colleges would be on board with this.

[Anonymous]

I'm no fan of skills based grading, especially the haphazard way it's been implemented at Madison, but I'm fuming right now

My child received A's on multiple "practice" drafts of a paper. The final submission was returned today (two months after it was due, FWIW) and the teacher gave it a C. Which will now replace all of those A's. And the best reason we can see, based on the feedback provided? The paper was missing one of the major elements. Where was that comment on the three prior drafts, which were given a mastery level grade? DC also has peer review sheets (which was part of each draft) where the reviewer states that they *saw* the supposedly missing element in the paper! That's why DC didn't address that issue moving forward; the comments and grades implied that it didn't need fixing.

This is a teacher with a long history of not responding to emails. My kid won't see the teacher again until Monday when grades are due. We'll see if the email sent today gets a response, but if not I'm running this one up the chain because this teachers inability and/or unwillingness to provide feedback during the process and instead basically let the students review/teach each other should not result in my kid's grade going down when they have no opportunity to address the issue. I'm a former professor; I know how hard it is to give timely and adequate feedback to students on papers but you just do it...that's part of the job. How else do they learn what they're doing wrong?

I'm sure someone will flame me for this, but the venting was at least slightly cathartic so I'm ok with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm no fan of skills based grading, especially the haphazard way it's been implemented at Madison, but I'm fuming right now

My child received A's on multiple "practice" drafts of a paper. The final submission was returned today (two months after it was due, FWIW) and the teacher gave it a C. Which will now replace all of those A's. And the best reason we can see, based on the feedback provided? The paper was missing one of the major elements. Where was that comment on the three prior drafts, which were given a mastery level grade? DC also has peer review sheets (which was part of each draft) where the reviewer states that they *saw* the supposedly missing element in the paper! That's why DC didn't address that issue moving forward; the comments and grades implied that it didn't need fixing.

This is a teacher with a long history of not responding to emails. My kid won't see the teacher again until Monday when grades are due. We'll see if the email sent today gets a response, but if not I'm running this one up the chain because this teachers inability and/or unwillingness to provide feedback during the process and instead basically let the students review/teach each other should not result in my kid's grade going down when they have no opportunity to address the issue. I'm a former professor; I know how hard it is to give timely and adequate feedback to students on papers but you just do it...that's part of the job. How else do they learn what they're doing wrong?

I'm sure someone will flame me for this, but the venting was at least slightly cathartic so I'm ok with it.

Not going to flame you. This is the problem with SGB, it is to easy to manipulate grades up or down with no time to correct. Administrators love it they can shape the curve through pressure on teachers.

Students are subject to those whims, college AOs will find it difficult to distinguish better students as everyone approaches average.

A great theory that is almost universally implemented in a way to “close the gap”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm no fan of skills based grading, especially the haphazard way it's been implemented at Madison, but I'm fuming right now

My child received A's on multiple "practice" drafts of a paper. The final submission was returned today (two months after it was due, FWIW) and the teacher gave it a C. Which will now replace all of those A's. And the best reason we can see, based on the feedback provided? The paper was missing one of the major elements. Where was that comment on the three prior drafts, which were given a mastery level grade? DC also has peer review sheets (which was part of each draft) where the reviewer states that they *saw* the supposedly missing element in the paper! That's why DC didn't address that issue moving forward; the comments and grades implied that it didn't need fixing.

This is a teacher with a long history of not responding to emails. My kid won't see the teacher again until Monday when grades are due. We'll see if the email sent today gets a response, but if not I'm running this one up the chain because this teachers inability and/or unwillingness to provide feedback during the process and instead basically let the students review/teach each other should not result in my kid's grade going down when they have no opportunity to address the issue. I'm a former professor; I know how hard it is to give timely and adequate feedback to students on papers but you just do it...that's part of the job. How else do they learn what they're doing wrong?

I'm sure someone will flame me for this, but the venting was at least slightly cathartic so I'm ok with it.

That is really disappointing. I wish you luck on emailing the teacher. So frustrating for the kids.

My kid is still missing 7 grades in one class!!! These are grades back to previous quarters. I have no idea how a student is supposed to “improve” through practice assessments when they never get any of the grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will say that I’ve seen this action for my Oakton kid. He’s in Honors Biology and had some incredibly difficult tests in cellular respiration, DNA sequencing etc. all 3 quarters he has been middle of the road. Solid b minus. His last two tests have been on such easy subject matters this quarter that his most recently tested “skills” have wiped out, basically, the last 3 quarters. That’s because he gets the highest grade of EITHER his last tested skill grade, or an average throughout the year. So, my B- biology kid now has an A minus. And as much as I love him, he does not deserve that A minus

My kid in Honors Bio at Oakton told me that just yesterday, the teacher said, "watch your grade when I hit the magic button!" and her grade went up 7 points, from a 79 to a solid B, almost a B+. Apparently no one's grades went down, but it could have gone up any number of points based on your "trends". whatever....

[Anonymous]

I don't understand the benefit of replacing grades. If skills actually measure skills why would replacing grades measure skills? None of it makes any sense. Assignments are based on mutiple skills. Unless you are taking a retake the skills aren't duplicated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will say that I’ve seen this action for my Oakton kid. He’s in Honors Biology and had some incredibly difficult tests in cellular respiration, DNA sequencing etc. all 3 quarters he has been middle of the road. Solid b minus. His last two tests have been on such easy subject matters this quarter that his most recently tested “skills” have wiped out, basically, the last 3 quarters. That’s because he gets the highest grade of EITHER his last tested skill grade, or an average throughout the year. So, my B- biology kid now has an A minus. And as much as I love him, he does not deserve that A minus

My kid in Honors Bio at Oakton told me that just yesterday, the teacher said, "watch your grade when I hit the magic button!" and her grade went up 7 points, from a 79 to a solid B, almost a B+. Apparently no one's grades went down, but it could have gone up any number of points based on your "trends". whatever....

That's what the administration calls growth.

[Anonymous]

Over 80% of Maryland students don't meet state proficiency standards in the news today. Maryland has been one of the top educational states in the nation in the past. These new programs aren't working for students.

I also noticed that only one class of my high schooler actually lists the standards being graded on in SIS, so it's impossible to follow these standards as percentages of a grade. It's difficult to follow and unnecessary. It just masks the bigger issues in education.

[Anonymous]

Has anyone from Madison thought about trying to limit exposure to SBG by taking an online FCPS course or taking classes through NOVA?

"High school students registered in any Fairfax County Public School or alternative high school are eligible to apply to take up to two credits through the FCPS Online Campus for scheduling conflicts or personal reasons, including health." Is this per year?

Any suggestions for strategies would be welcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone from Madison thought about trying to limit exposure to SBG by taking an online FCPS course or taking classes through NOVA?

"High school students registered in any Fairfax County Public School or alternative high school are eligible to apply to take up to two credits through the FCPS Online Campus for scheduling conflicts or personal reasons, including health." Is this per year?

Any suggestions for strategies would be welcome.

Suggestion #1: Therapy to reduce your anxiety about something that your teen can adapt to on his/her own.

If you are so worried about other kids not doing the homework such that it degrades the classroom experience for your kid, then taking an on line class probably isn't going to result in a lot of stimulating classroom discussion. But, hey --- you do you. If SBG does bother you as much as you have said, then it probably is best to make other arrangements.