anyone else strongly consider leaving due to garbage US healthcare?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op where are you thinking of going?

Singapore, Japan, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Thailand, Germany, UK.....hell, it don't matter if you even have insurance. You can afford to pay out of pocket abroad because it is nowhere near as stupidly expensive as the US.

Have you looked at Canada's wait times? Plus, contrary to popular belief everything is not covered. Yes, you can go to the doctor or hospital and not get a horrendous bill. But you wait to get in, and a lot of peripheral care is not covered unless you have decent private insurance. There's a reason Canadians are willing to go to the U.S. for some things. I know a 20 year old woman who is having multiple seizures per week. She has an 8 - 10 week wait for an MRI. Your sleep study would not be covered, and you would wait.

People love to say this. Do you know people experiencing these so-called long wait times other than your Boomer friends who will complain about anything?

Fact: People over 55 love to complain about how everything is wrong with the world today. My parents love to complain about their health care in Canada. Like how they had to wait 8 months for each of my (obese) father's knee replacements. But the truth was that he lives in Florida for half the year, and still travels for work, so that was literally the only time it worked for his travel schedule. But they are boomers so they complained to everyone who would listen about how long the wait was. Had he just taken the first available appointment, it would have been no more than 3 months wait.

Fast forward a few years and dad finally takes his shortness of breath seriously and gets the doctor to do all the heart tests. Three weeks to an angiogram, and then 3.5 weeks from then until quadruple bypass surgery. He was in the moderate risk pool; had he been higher risk he would have been in surgery within the week.

In short, in my experience the only people complaining about wait times in Canada are old people who complain about anything; just like the maga old people in the US who want government to get out of their medicare.

Yes, friend's 18 yo son needed an MRI for his knee from an acute injury. Wait time was over 8 weeks.

I had hip surgery in the US. I could not walk or stand properly, stairs were nearly impossible (I could get down in the AM and up at night with great effort). I was first put through 1 month of PT, then told to wait a month while I had a cortisone shot, then told to wait 1 month for an MRI, and then finally was scheduled for surgery 6 weeks after my MRI. My spouse is a fed, so we have pretty good insurance. That was not an easy not speedy process for somebody who could barely walk and needed to take care of a newborn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Earlier this month, democracy literally died in the US.

So yes, we are planing to move overseas as soon as possible.

Likely to Europe, if we can find any possible way.

Legitimate question - what are you referring to specifically?

You were not aware the MAGAs took over the government after they were sworn in this month?

Trying to make this last comment relevant to the thread, I'd agree that the US has a serious mental health problem, due in part to political polarization and media outlets promoting hysteria.

[Anonymous]

For all of you "strongley considering" leaving the US due to healthcare, "democracy dying," etc. please go. Renounce your citzenship and make room for people who want to be here. People are literally dying as they trek thousands of miles to the southern border because they are so desparate to live in the US. Is the US perfect? Absolutely not but it's pretty great comparatively! Your incessant whining and empty threats of leaving is offensive and tone deaf to people who have actual real problems like starvation, being sex trafficed, etc.

Here's the thing. it is not an either/or. Either you live in the US and have horrible health care OR you live in a failed state like Mexico. Given how immensely wealthy this country it, it is absolutely possible and feasible that we can and should have a better healthcare system, which does not simply benefit most of us as individuals but benefits us as a society. This is, for me, like gun control and abortion (and education too, but that's a whole nother issue). These are things THE MAJORITY OF THE COUNTRY supports, yet our rights in this area are being chipped away through a biased supreme court, a corrupt political party, gerrymandering, and corporate interests. Instead of just saying 'Ya dont like the US, then leave" how about changing what ISNT WORKING to actually become a better country?

There are a few fatal flaws in our system. 1) Healthcare is tied to employment. This does not work. Healthcare should be nationalized, with the option of buying additional coverage. Kind of like...medicare. 2) healthcare should be non profit: the fact that insurance companies and executives make the profits they make while denying coverage, etc, is insane. The waste, fraud, and excess in how insurance bilks us is unbelievable. Fixing #1 will go a long way toward fixing #2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are very few countries that can provide the standard of care that most Americans are used to receiving.

Amen to that. And I lived in those "super health care" countries. Like Norway and Canada, it is horrible in Canada right now.

Try being the millions of Americans who don't have healthcare. It's pretty horrible.

In the US, the #1 reason for bankruptcy is due to medical reasons - costs and otherwise.

Can you say the same for Canada or Norway?

This is such a misleading statistic. Anyone who filed bankruptcy with even a $30 medical bill overdue is considering filing because of medical bills. But in reality that’s not why they went bankrupt.

Here's the thing: in Canada, people aren't filing for bankruptcy due to medical bill costs. Doesn't matter if it's $30 or $3000 - they can't pay it.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/this-is-the-real-reason-most-americans-file-for-bankruptcy.html

-Two-thirds of people who file for bankruptcy cite medical issues as a key contributor to their financial downfall.
-While the high cost of health care has historically been a trigger for bankruptcy filings, the research shows that the implementation of the Affordable Care Act has not improved things.
-What most people do not realize, according to one researcher, is that their health insurance may not be enough to protect them.

Imagine paying $500 every month for insurance premiums, and you still can't pay your medical bills.

Then imagine paying no insurance premiums, and being able to afford private care out of pocket because it's still cheaper than paying a monthly insurance premium + deductible in the US. That's the system that we have.

An MRI costs $800 if you pay private in the UK. In the US, I pay $1300 per month for a family of four for a high deductible plan. The vast majority of years, we never reach the deductible.

So the math breaks down like this:

$1000 (make calculation easy) x 12 months = $12,000
Deductible for non routine office visits, non critical procedures -- , broken bone, infections -- about $6000 per year
= $18,000 per year on medical care (and I haven't even added rx yet, some of which is like $100 for a tiny tube)

Those medical conditions would cost less than $5000 per year if I paid out of pocket in other countries.

Do you not understand how crazy expensive our system is, even with insurance?

My DC had to go to urgent care a couple of times when we were in Europe. It was either free or we paid all of $40 to see a doctor and get a rx.

About rx: the same inhaler in Spain costs $10 there abouts (when we were there several years ago); in the US it's like $70. I was tempted to fake an asthma attack to get two inhalers while we were in Europe.

No system is perfect, but ours is the most insane.

If you told a Brit or Canadian that they were going to get US style healthcare, there would be mass protests in the streets. No matter how much they complain about their healthcare system, when you tell them how the US system works, they think we are nuts.

We have family in Canada, UK, Australia -- they complain about their healthcare system, then we tell them how it works in the US, then they say, "oh that's worse". And I have to agree.

So again, if you have lots of money, the US healthcare system is great. If not, you're living on a hope and prayer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Earlier this month, democracy literally died in the US.

So yes, we are planing to move overseas as soon as possible.

Likely to Europe, if we can find any possible way.

Legitimate question - what are you referring to specifically?

You were not aware the MAGAs took over the government after they were sworn in this month?

Oh my God, Trump is President! Mitch McConnell is the Majority Leader of the Senate, AND the GOP has 60+ votes! They can do whatever they want!

Oh, wait, none of that happened.

Seriously, as a lifelong Democrat, it upsets me when fellow travelers most stupid crap like this. I expect this from MAGA drones, not fellow liberals. Read a damn newspaper, and if you can't comment intelligently, just STFU.

Sincerely,

Everyone

[Anonymous]

Insurance companies have pushed the false narrative that Canada's universal healthcare is horrible.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/27/884307565/after-pushing-lies-former-cigna-executive-praises-canadas-health-care-system

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/how-canada-got-universal-health-care-and-what-the-u-s-could-learn

For roughly 20 years, Wendell Potter worked to sow fear of the Canadian health care system — including long wait times like these — in the minds of Americans. As the head of corporate communications for health insurance giant Cigna, Potter said industry executives felt the public Canadian system exposed shortcomings in the private U.S. health system and potentially threatened their profits.

That led Potter and his peers to perpetuate the idea that wait times forced Canadians to forgo needed medical care and live in peril. Potter said he and his colleagues cherry-picked data and obscured the bigger picture, but to get that mischaracterization to take root in people’s imagination, “there needs to be a kernel of truth there,” he said.

In this case, Canadians at the time experienced longer wait times for non-emergency elective procedures, such as knee and hip replacements. Massive health insurance companies poured money into promoting this idea until it bloomed into a mischaracterization of the entire Canadian health care system.

The trick to getting misinformation to stick is to “repeat it over and over and over again, over years, and get friends to repeat it,” Potter said.

Seems this trick has worked for most Americans, especially Rs. But then again, Rs seem to be easily duped by a lot of things.

[Anonymous]

You'll never get a sleep study approved on specialized medicine they'd say take a selfie while you sleep and erase it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Earlier this month, democracy literally died in the US.

So yes, we are planing to move overseas as soon as possible.

Likely to Europe, if we can find any possible way.

Legitimate question - what are you referring to specifically?

You were not aware the MAGAs took over the government after they were sworn in this month?

Oh my God, Trump is President! Mitch McConnell is the Majority Leader of the Senate, AND the GOP has 60+ votes! They can do whatever they want!

Oh, wait, none of that happened.

Seriously, as a lifelong Democrat, it upsets me when fellow travelers most stupid crap like this. I expect this from MAGA drones, not fellow liberals. Read a damn newspaper, and if you can't comment intelligently, just STFU.

Sincerely,

Everyone

Nope, that's the company you have today, sorry. It is an insult that we use the word "liberal" to label so many crazies, but so be it

[Anonymous]

This thread is so ridiculous. OP can’t even figure out how to make a doctors apportionment, yet they are going to up and move to another country. Yeah right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:List the countries where you think you’ll quickly and easily get a sleep study let alone have it covered.

FTR, I have Cadillac insurance (think: $35 copay for major surgery and insurance covers the rest). I’m confident other countries aren’t actually better. In the US, you can practically dictate what services/tests you want. In the UK, you wait. And you don’t always get what you want.

Have to disagree. I work in healthcare (US) and had an emergent health issue in the Netherlands. I was seen, prescribed medicine, and billed in a very transparent and efficient way: it cost less than $100. What I experienced there is not replicable in the US, currently.

I don’t disagree with your example, but it’s not apples to apples.

Plenty of us have received quick and cheap cars while traveling. But that’s for emergency or urgent care, not for a “sleep study.” Other countries simply don’t provide speedy or what they deem unnecessary tests.

I had a medical issue on a flight to South America, and I received a quick medical evaluation and EKG at the urgent care department at the airport. They didn’t even ask for my details or charge me anything.

But urgent care is very different than special tests. My wealthy friends who live abroad in Europe fly to the US for special medical services. They also pay for special medical services over there. The basic system is cheap, but you end up waiting and often don’t get the testing you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have amazing healthcare here and I want as few other people to have it as possible so they aren't competing for services and I can get seen quickly and efficiently. The last thing I need is to move to Europe where I have to wait for six months while the doctor takes a look at janitors and taxi drivers before me.

Based

[Anonymous]

Yet my family in the UK slams the NHS. Says the care is awful and the waits are long for anything. Not sure if that is preferable to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Insurance companies have pushed the false narrative that Canada's universal healthcare is horrible.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/27/884307565/after-pushing-lies-former-cigna-executive-praises-canadas-health-care-system

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/how-canada-got-universal-health-care-and-what-the-u-s-could-learn

For roughly 20 years, Wendell Potter worked to sow fear of the Canadian health care system — including long wait times like these — in the minds of Americans. As the head of corporate communications for health insurance giant Cigna, Potter said industry executives felt the public Canadian system exposed shortcomings in the private U.S. health system and potentially threatened their profits.

That led Potter and his peers to perpetuate the idea that wait times forced Canadians to forgo needed medical care and live in peril. Potter said he and his colleagues cherry-picked data and obscured the bigger picture, but to get that mischaracterization to take root in people’s imagination, “there needs to be a kernel of truth there,” he said.

In this case, Canadians at the time experienced longer wait times for non-emergency elective procedures, such as knee and hip replacements. Massive health insurance companies poured money into promoting this idea until it bloomed into a mischaracterization of the entire Canadian health care system.

The trick to getting misinformation to stick is to “repeat it over and over and over again, over years, and get friends to repeat it,” Potter said.

Seems this trick has worked for most Americans, especially Rs. But then again, Rs seem to be easily duped by a lot of things.

Americans have an inherent distrust of the government and the GOP (and healthcare industry) has preyed upon that, telling you that "You don't want the government running your health care." But no one ever follows that thought to the logical conclusion that right now for profit industry is running your health care. And it's more expensive with worse outcomes overall.

And we actually don't need government to run it. In many countries private insurance is offered, but everyone has care. It's not an either/or proposition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think getting timely access to specialty care like a sleep study could be really hard in countries with government-provided medical care.

I used to be on a discussion board for people with a medical condition my child has and was really shocked by how long the Brits and especially the Canadians had to wait for appointments with a specialist. Like any specialist, not just a really good one at a prominent clinic who you go to when your local specialist hasn't helped.

I had a medical condition and also came across a lot of UK sites with others dealing with the same illness. It was pretty obvious that I had much easier access to testing and procedures. It almost became hard to converse about it with Brits because they couldn’t even get their heads around that I was dictating the timing of certain procedures. I am very glad I was treated here in the US.

you're comparing apples to oranges. More than likely, the people you were supposedly chatting with in the UK were using NHS. The UK, and other countries, also have private insurance and care. You should compare like for like.

The US is great for healthcare, if you can afford it.

The problem with US healthcare is that everything is freaking expensive. An MRI here costs $2000. In the UK, it costs $800 if you pay privately.

Capitalism at its finest.

And it is freaking expensive because healthcare is supposed to pay for everything and for everyone, without any triage or evidence-based way to prioritize -- That'd be called fattist or racist or ageist or whatever. Which is why ACA didn't even try to rationalize the already out-of-control costs.

Ding, ding, ding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are very few countries that can provide the standard of care that most Americans are used to receiving.

Amen to that. And I lived in those "super health care" countries. Like Norway and Canada, it is horrible in Canada right now.

Try being the millions of Americans who don't have healthcare. It's pretty horrible.

In the US, the #1 reason for bankruptcy is due to medical reasons - costs and otherwise.

Can you say the same for Canada or Norway?

This is such a misleading statistic. Anyone who filed bankruptcy with even a $30 medical bill overdue is considering filing because of medical bills. But in reality that’s not why they went bankrupt.

Here's the thing: in Canada, people aren't filing for bankruptcy due to medical bill costs. Doesn't matter if it's $30 or $3000 - they can't pay it.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/this-is-the-real-reason-most-americans-file-for-bankruptcy.html

-Two-thirds of people who file for bankruptcy cite medical issues as a key contributor to their financial downfall.
-While the high cost of health care has historically been a trigger for bankruptcy filings, the research shows that the implementation of the Affordable Care Act has not improved things.
-What most people do not realize, according to one researcher, is that their health insurance may not be enough to protect them.

Imagine paying $500 every month for insurance premiums, and you still can't pay your medical bills.

Then imagine paying no insurance premiums, and being able to afford private care out of pocket because it's still cheaper than paying a monthly insurance premium + deductible in the US. That's the system that we have.

An MRI costs $800 if you pay private in the UK. In the US, I pay $1300 per month for a family of four for a high deductible plan. The vast majority of years, we never reach the deductible.

So the math breaks down like this:

$1000 (make calculation easy) x 12 months = $12,000
Deductible for non routine office visits, non critical procedures -- , broken bone, infections -- about $6000 per year
= $18,000 per year on medical care (and I haven't even added rx yet, some of which is like $100 for a tiny tube)

Those medical conditions would cost less than $5000 per year if I paid out of pocket in other countries.

Do you not understand how crazy expensive our system is, even with insurance?

My DC had to go to urgent care a couple of times when we were in Europe. It was either free or we paid all of $40 to see a doctor and get a rx.

About rx: the same inhaler in Spain costs $10 there abouts (when we were there several years ago); in the US it's like $70. I was tempted to fake an asthma attack to get two inhalers while we were in Europe.

No system is perfect, but ours is the most insane.

If you told a Brit or Canadian that they were going to get US style healthcare, there would be mass protests in the streets. No matter how much they complain about their healthcare system, when you tell them how the US system works, they think we are nuts.

We have family in Canada, UK, Australia -- they complain about their healthcare system, then we tell them how it works in the US, then they say, "oh that's worse". And I have to agree.

So again, if you have lots of money, the US healthcare system is great. If not, you're living on a hope and prayer.

THIS. But here’s the thing it’ll be impossible to fix our system. Too much money and too big to redo. There is absolutely no way to totally change up the system. Possibly, as an option, make baby changes but I almost don’t think it’s actually possible to that either. As long as healthcare is not nationalized, private industry will go for profit and people will suffer. That’s the price of capitalism and this society which is why I truly believe we are on our way down to oblivion. I give this country 20 years before we are no longer first world leader. Already on the higher Ed front, we’ve lost to other countries.