anyone else strongly consider leaving due to garbage US healthcare?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's unethical to spend your young, healthy years in the US and then go to Europe in your older, less healthy years and burden their young people with your bills. They dont have enough young people to pay for all the old immigrants who dont want to pay for insurance.

NP who thinks OP is ridiculous in thinking it's better in Europe - BUT, the above is a joke. The people of Europe stick the United States with all of their defense costs AND the costs of drug and device technology and clinical trials to advance their medicine.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Go ahead and move to Canada, or Europe....enjoy your months-long wait to see your doctor for a max of 15 mins.

If an American moves to these countries - do they even qualify for national health care as a non-citizen?

depends. You can pay into the system to use it.

We looked into it for the UK. It's about $3500 for 3 years.

Regardless, you can pay private for everything because health care in general is cheaper every where else compared to the US. No insurance premiums needed.

We spend $20K in the US for medical care here, and most years, we don't even hit the deductible. It makes me sick to think of how much money we waste on health insurance that we use maybe a few times a year. But, we don't want to go without just in case we get a serious illness. It's f*n scary here. We are in our 50s, and we have talked about going to the UK if we want to retire early because the cost of private insurance here is stupid expensive. We would use NHS for general checkups, non-urgent issues, and pay privately for things we don't want to wait for.

My spouse is a Brit.

I posted just above. My spouse is also British. Read up on what has been happening with ambulances. And with the fact it's very difficult to get even remotely non-emergency operations done on the NHS. LIke I say above: The NHS has helped my family tremendously (and was helpful to us a few times when traveling over there). But don't have rose-colored glasses on re: speed of service, availability of services everywhere, or availability of non-emergency services. We know people who have waited a year or more for surgeries including knee replacement. Again, I'm actually pro-socialized-medicine! But you yourself say it, PP: You would pay privately for what you dont' want to wait for. That's great for you but it's a position of immense privilege that most in the UK do not have. And you might be shocked at how very expensive those private pay treatments or operations would be.

Yes, I know that's happening now.

Have you ever read about people dying here in the US because they have no access to healthcare? It happens. It happened to my cousin. People don't go see doctors because they can't afford it, and by the time they do get around it because they are in agony, it's too late.

Do you hear about how people go bankrupt here because they can't pay their medical bills? Does that happen in the UK?

Yes, I'm privileged to pay private in the UK if I need to. Do you think most Brits could afford paying $20K per year for health insurance that they barely use here in the US? I don't think so.

ITA, no system is perfect, but if you have money, you can buy great healthcare anywhere. But the vast majority of people don't have that kind of wealth. Hence, the need for some type of universal healthcare.

BTW, I have looked into private care costs in the UK. It isn't that cheap, but it's cheaper, plus you don't have to pay for health insurance premiums like we do here, which is ridiculously expensive.

You aren’t factoring in the higher income taxes you pay in the UK.

Nor is that PP factoring in the immensely long waits for some non-emergency operations like knee replacements or hip replacements. Ask me how I know. Better yet, ask me how my relatives in the UK know.

well my SIL just had breast cancer surgery, free and done quickly.

Ask an American without insurance how they feel about getting a hip replacement surgery? Oh, wait, they can't get one because they don't have insurance.

Well I’m going to go ahead and guess that breast cancer surgery is a little more emergent that a hip replacement.

yes, that's the point.

Non urgent issues don't get priority, but if you have urgent issues, it will get addressed, for free.

The other point is that there are millions of people in the US who can't get hip replacement surgery even if there is no long wait time because these folks don't have insurance. So, even if the wait time in the US is shorter, medical care is not accessible to millions of people. Additionally, millions file for bankruptcy every year due to medical costs. That doesn't happen in the UK.

Most of you people on here have employer sponsored medical insurance, so you have no idea how painful (pun intended) it is to pay for private medical care. But you are just a hope and prayer away from losing your employer sponsored health insurance if you get laid off, which thousands of people have been these past few months. They may find a new job, or they may not. But, it's ridiculous for people to have to find any job simply for health insurance.

https://www.singlecare.com/blog/medical-debt-statistics/

I urge you to read the part of the average costs in the US vs other countries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have very good healthcare, and yet mental health coverage is so incredibly difficult to find. Doctors only want to take new patients from a hospital setting.

What country has amazing mental health coverage.

Pharma likes only psychiatrists because regular therapists can’t prescribe drugs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Go ahead and move to Canada, or Europe....enjoy your months-long wait to see your doctor for a max of 15 mins.

If an American moves to these countries - do they even qualify for national health care as a non-citizen?

depends. You can pay into the system to use it.

We looked into it for the UK. It's about $3500 for 3 years.

Regardless, you can pay private for everything because health care in general is cheaper every where else compared to the US. No insurance premiums needed.

We spend $20K in the US for medical care here, and most years, we don't even hit the deductible. It makes me sick to think of how much money we waste on health insurance that we use maybe a few times a year. But, we don't want to go without just in case we get a serious illness. It's f*n scary here. We are in our 50s, and we have talked about going to the UK if we want to retire early because the cost of private insurance here is stupid expensive. We would use NHS for general checkups, non-urgent issues, and pay privately for things we don't want to wait for.

My spouse is a Brit.

I posted just above. My spouse is also British. Read up on what has been happening with ambulances. And with the fact it's very difficult to get even remotely non-emergency operations done on the NHS. LIke I say above: The NHS has helped my family tremendously (and was helpful to us a few times when traveling over there). But don't have rose-colored glasses on re: speed of service, availability of services everywhere, or availability of non-emergency services. We know people who have waited a year or more for surgeries including knee replacement. Again, I'm actually pro-socialized-medicine! But you yourself say it, PP: You would pay privately for what you dont' want to wait for. That's great for you but it's a position of immense privilege that most in the UK do not have. And you might be shocked at how very expensive those private pay treatments or operations would be.

Yes, I know that's happening now.

Have you ever read about people dying here in the US because they have no access to healthcare? It happens. It happened to my cousin. People don't go see doctors because they can't afford it, and by the time they do get around it because they are in agony, it's too late.

Do you hear about how people go bankrupt here because they can't pay their medical bills? Does that happen in the UK?

Yes, I'm privileged to pay private in the UK if I need to. Do you think most Brits could afford paying $20K per year for health insurance that they barely use here in the US? I don't think so.

ITA, no system is perfect, but if you have money, you can buy great healthcare anywhere. But the vast majority of people don't have that kind of wealth. Hence, the need for some type of universal healthcare.

BTW, I have looked into private care costs in the UK. It isn't that cheap, but it's cheaper, plus you don't have to pay for health insurance premiums like we do here, which is ridiculously expensive.

You aren’t factoring in the higher income taxes you pay in the UK.

Nor is that PP factoring in the immensely long waits for some non-emergency operations like knee replacements or hip replacements. Ask me how I know. Better yet, ask me how my relatives in the UK know.

well my SIL just had breast cancer surgery, free and done quickly.

Ask an American without insurance how they feel about getting a hip replacement surgery? Oh, wait, they can't get one because they don't have insurance.

If your SIL received cancer care in the UK "quickly," she's lucky. The goal for beginning treatment for cancer in the UK is one month after diagnosis. A significant number of people wait three months or more. This is part of why the US has better survival rates for almost all cancers than the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/mar/10/nhs-waiting-times-for-cancer-care-in-england-now-longest-on-record



https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/cancer-waiting-time-targets#background

Between 2009 and 2014, the percentage of people with suspected cancer having their first consultant appointment within two weeks of an urgent GP referral fluctuated at around 95%. From 2015 to 2018, average yearly performance dropped slightly to about 94%, after which it has declined year on year. The two-week standard has been missed for the last four years. In Q1 2022/23 (April to June 2022), 80% of patients had their first consultant appointment within two weeks.

For patients with breast symptoms (where cancer is not initially suspected), performance against the two-week wait target has declined at a faster rate. Between Q1 2017/18 and Q1 2022/23, the percentage of patients with breast symptoms seen by a consultant within two weeks of an urgent GP referral fell from 91% to 67%.

(and that's treatment after diagnosis -- diagnosis is seeing delays, as well. Can you imagine having to wait more than a month to find out if your test for cancer is positive?)

In April 2020, a new faster diagnosis standard was introduced, with the aim of detecting cancer faster in order to improve cancer survival rates. A target was set which stated that by Q3 2021/22, at least 75% of patients should be told whether or not they have cancer within 28 days of an urgent referral from their GP or a cancer screening programme. The NHS delivery plan pushed the ambition to meet the target back to March 2024. Since April 2021, when data against this target began to be published, the 75% target has not been met nationally. In June 2022, 70% of patients waited less than 28 days to be told whether or not they have cancer.