Which of the T20 schools have the least driven, intense, goal-oriented students?

[Anonymous]

Among the Top 15 National Universities, Dartmouth College, Brown, Duke, and Vanderbilt are probably the most relaxed/least intense unless pre-med.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:It is clear all the angry bitter adults attacking OPs teenager in this thread aren’t on T20 campuses now, because if they were, they would know that there is deep concern among the faculty about precisely what OPs child is reporting.

OP, I suggest your child find a faculty mentor to talk with. She isn’t alone in her concerns, but transferring might not be the answer either. The faculty is very familiar with the problem she’s identified and will be a resource for her. It may take a few tries, but I would counsel her to talk to her professors.

Not getting a lot of anger or bitterness. Most posters seem to be saying...your student is sounding unhappy.

And the solutions seem to be....maybe a different school would be better or maybe she should stop stressing about others students studying all the time and do her own thing.

The crazy lawyer lady up above definitely sounded angry and bitter, or at least weirdly triggered. You have to admit that poster sounded weird.

A little anger sure, but most posters seem to be looking for a solution. If the competitive culture is a downer....don't get dragged into destructive competition or if that is not possible....try to find a place with a different culture if you can.

You must not have read the posts openly insulting OPs child. Yes, definitely angry and bitter. Why else would adults attack a teenager?

You must have not read any of the reasonable posts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Among the Top 15 National Universities, Dartmouth College, Brown, Duke, and Vanderbilt are probably the most relaxed/least intense unless pre-med.

Vandy not even top 20 Betty boo

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is clear all the angry bitter adults attacking OPs teenager in this thread aren’t on T20 campuses now, because if they were, they would know that there is deep concern among the faculty about precisely what OPs child is reporting.

OP, I suggest your child find a faculty mentor to talk with. She isn’t alone in her concerns, but transferring might not be the answer either. The faculty is very familiar with the problem she’s identified and will be a resource for her. It may take a few tries, but I would counsel her to talk to her professors.

Not getting a lot of anger or bitterness. Most posters seem to be saying...your student is sounding unhappy.

And the solutions seem to be....maybe a different school would be better or maybe she should stop stressing about others students studying all the time and do her own thing.

The crazy lawyer lady up above definitely sounded angry and bitter, or at least weirdly triggered. You have to admit that poster sounded weird.

A little anger sure, but most posters seem to be looking for a solution. If the competitive culture is a downer....don't get dragged into destructive competition or if that is not possible....try to find a place with a different culture if you can.

You must not have read the posts openly insulting OPs child. Yes, definitely angry and bitter. Why else would adults attack a teenager?

You must have not read any of the reasonable posts.

Posts attacking a teenager for something T20 professors worry and talk about as a problem are by definition not rational or reasonable. And there have been a lot of those.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is clear all the angry bitter adults attacking OPs teenager in this thread aren’t on T20 campuses now, because if they were, they would know that there is deep concern among the faculty about precisely what OPs child is reporting.

OP, I suggest your child find a faculty mentor to talk with. She isn’t alone in her concerns, but transferring might not be the answer either. The faculty is very familiar with the problem she’s identified and will be a resource for her. It may take a few tries, but I would counsel her to talk to her professors.

Not getting a lot of anger or bitterness. Most posters seem to be saying...your student is sounding unhappy.

And the solutions seem to be....maybe a different school would be better or maybe she should stop stressing about others students studying all the time and do her own thing.

The crazy lawyer lady up above definitely sounded angry and bitter, or at least weirdly triggered. You have to admit that poster sounded weird.

A little anger sure, but most posters seem to be looking for a solution. If the competitive culture is a downer....don't get dragged into destructive competition or if that is not possible....try to find a place with a different culture if you can.

You must not have read the posts openly insulting OPs child. Yes, definitely angry and bitter. Why else would adults attack a teenager?

You must have not read any of the reasonable posts.

Posts attacking a teenager for something T20 professors worry and talk about as a problem are by definition not rational or reasonable. And there have been a lot of those.

Plenty of posters have suggested alternative institutions or other strategies as possible solutions. This is dcum. Take anything you find useful and ignore the rest

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is clear all the angry bitter adults attacking OPs teenager in this thread aren’t on T20 campuses now, because if they were, they would know that there is deep concern among the faculty about precisely what OPs child is reporting.

OP, I suggest your child find a faculty mentor to talk with. She isn’t alone in her concerns, but transferring might not be the answer either. The faculty is very familiar with the problem she’s identified and will be a resource for her. It may take a few tries, but I would counsel her to talk to her professors.

Not getting a lot of anger or bitterness. Most posters seem to be saying...your student is sounding unhappy.

And the solutions seem to be....maybe a different school would be better or maybe she should stop stressing about others students studying all the time and do her own thing.

The crazy lawyer lady up above definitely sounded angry and bitter, or at least weirdly triggered. You have to admit that poster sounded weird.

A little anger sure, but most posters seem to be looking for a solution. If the competitive culture is a downer....don't get dragged into destructive competition or if that is not possible....try to find a place with a different culture if you can.

You must not have read the posts openly insulting OPs child. Yes, definitely angry and bitter. Why else would adults attack a teenager?

You must have not read any of the reasonable posts.

Posts attacking a teenager for something T20 professors worry and talk about as a problem are by definition not rational or reasonable. And there have been a lot of those.

Plenty of posters have suggested alternative institutions or other strategies as possible solutions. This is dcum. Take anything you find useful and ignore the rest

The problem with this thread is OP's lack of specificity. Garbage in, garbage out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is clear all the angry bitter adults attacking OPs teenager in this thread aren’t on T20 campuses now, because if they were, they would know that there is deep concern among the faculty about precisely what OPs child is reporting.

OP, I suggest your child find a faculty mentor to talk with. She isn’t alone in her concerns, but transferring might not be the answer either. The faculty is very familiar with the problem she’s identified and will be a resource for her. It may take a few tries, but I would counsel her to talk to her professors.

Not getting a lot of anger or bitterness. Most posters seem to be saying...your student is sounding unhappy.

And the solutions seem to be....maybe a different school would be better or maybe she should stop stressing about others students studying all the time and do her own thing.

The crazy lawyer lady up above definitely sounded angry and bitter, or at least weirdly triggered. You have to admit that poster sounded weird.

A little anger sure, but most posters seem to be looking for a solution. If the competitive culture is a downer....don't get dragged into destructive competition or if that is not possible....try to find a place with a different culture if you can.

You must not have read the posts openly insulting OPs child. Yes, definitely angry and bitter. Why else would adults attack a teenager?

You must have not read any of the reasonable posts.

Posts attacking a teenager for something T20 professors worry and talk about as a problem are by definition not rational or reasonable. And there have been a lot of those.

Plenty of posters have suggested alternative institutions or other strategies as possible solutions. This is dcum. Take anything you find useful and ignore the rest

The problem with this thread is OP's lack of specificity. Garbage in, garbage out.

Op said DC is struggling to find other students at her college that want to stop "grinding" long enough to catch a show, grab a sandwich, or have a beer.

It sounds basically like this student is struggling to find some friends that want to do the things she wants to do. She is in her first semester so I think this is common. Give her more time to find some friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:This thread makes me think l hope my kid chooses to go to school in Canada, where I’m from originally. Much easier to get into a great school, and pretty much everyone has a great time. Not a pressure cooker. (I hope it’s still like that!!)

Working hard at a academic pursuits is a great time for some of these students. Some of them like it. They are are finally in an environment where being a nerd is an asset instead of a liability.

This. I’m having a hard time with this thread. College is supposed to be for studying. OP seems to want the “top credentials” for their kid, with none of the effort.

OP I’m sure your kid can find an easy major and the stoner crowd, and enjoy some Gentleman’s Cs.

OP here. This is a little mean, since you’re responding to me pointedly while relying on thread drift for your facts. OP’s *KID* sought out and is already attending a top school. There are no Cs. Kid just wants to socialize more than once a month and locate similar friends who accept a 93 instead of pulling all-nighters for the 96.5 Tracy Flick. Did she have fun?

It is instructive that no one has first- or second-hand experience with a objectively top school that has a fun campus vibe.

It’s also telling that the PPs are insulting OPs kid but can’t talk about how they enjoyed their own college experience. I think they are still resentful of the kids that managed to do well and yet still enjoy college, something that is increasingly rare on T20 campuses.

Doing well is subjective. OPs standard of doing well is not matching up with that of some of the other students at the college.

So what? If she is satisfied with her education, don't get overly involved in what another is doing.

Exactly. There’s no doubt that there are kids on campus who like to party. What is happening here is that OP and their kid cannot accept not being the elite in this school. It’s harder than they thought it would be. That’s OK!

I shouldn’t take the bait … I’m OP. Academic work is actually easier than kid thought it would be. Kid’s grades are excellent and despite what a lot of PPs fervently wish, kid is at the top of their classes Professors say as much.

What IS much harder than they thought it would be is locating someone to catch a show or grab a sandwich. Let alone a beer. They’d be happy with a shared sandwich. They’re just very surprised at the apparently absence of balance. They will keep trying

I was one of the early posters that transferred and it was this. I didn’t mind the work. I didn’t want to get drunk every night. But it would have been nice to meet people who occasionally wanted to go out to eat, go find a coffee shop or *gasp* even go shopping for an hour or two. I just wanted to do something social on a regular basis. And yes, being with people who enjoyed the occasional party would have been nice.

[Anonymous]

Dartmouth, Duke, Vandy….UVA, Michigan

[Anonymous]

Any school that has (1) D1 football or basketball and (2) Greek life or the Ivy equivalent is going to have a solid crew of social kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Any school that has (1) D1 football or basketball and (2) Greek life or the Ivy equivalent is going to have a solid crew of social kids.

Maybe a sorority is something to consider. That is a social group by definition, correct?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is clear all the angry bitter adults attacking OPs teenager in this thread aren’t on T20 campuses now, because if they were, they would know that there is deep concern among the faculty about precisely what OPs child is reporting.

OP, I suggest your child find a faculty mentor to talk with. She isn’t alone in her concerns, but transferring might not be the answer either. The faculty is very familiar with the problem she’s identified and will be a resource for her. It may take a few tries, but I would counsel her to talk to her professors.

oh geez. how is an adult supposed to help a college freshman learn to socialize? ffs. so much helplessness. maybe this kid needs to come home and go to community college.

I mean you are the one calling a teenager you don’t know names. Maybe you aren’t really best positioned to speculate about adults who know how to help their students. It doesn’t seem to be a skill set you’d have.

Um it’s actually OP calling an entire school of teenagers “grinds” and “Tracy Flicks.”

I never called OP’s child any names. I just think it’s important to own your choices & circumstances & preferences and not blame others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Yeah, it’s a real problem. You aren’t going to find a T20 that isn’t largely populated by Tracy Flicks. Sorry.

Especially nowadays given what it takes to get into a t 20. Might have been different 25 years ago

25 years ago you could get the disorganized geniuses who walked into the SATs and got 1600 without studying and who kept up a 3.7 or so GPA by never doing the homework but acing the tests. Perfect and intense executive function wasn’t a skill set universally required for admissions back then. But the admissions have changed to essentially remove the quirky geniuses from the student population, because you are only getting into a T20 if you have the executive functioning skills of a mid-career project manager. Hence schools populated almost entirely by Tracy Flicks. Even the athletes are Tracy Flicks. It’s kind of bizarre.

This whole notion that there were all these "disorganized geniuses " in earlier years, and kids now are just well organized with the "geniuses" getting shut out is silly. Back in my day 1600 was an unheard of score. Kids who did well were likely natural test takers with parents who valued education and/or in good schools. We weren't necessarily smarter than kids who didn't score as well. You didn't find these natural Good Will Hunting " geniuses laying about. That is just nonsense. Kids these days are working hard to demonstrate their intellect, artistic talent and work ethic. And, competition is tough. It's not like the "true geniuses" are getting shut out by average bureaucrats. In fact, back in the day, a lot more spaces were going to legacy and connected. Now, kids are submitting evidence of far more course rigor than we had plus talents, etc

But that is the point. I think PP is talking about those genius-type kids who don't join the uber competitive high school rat race because they don't value that kind of perfectionist behavior. These days they will not apply to or will be not shut out o f the top schools due to imperfect GPAs, and they will go to a school that is a great fit for them, be surrounded with kids who are intellectually creative and honest, and not afraid to take risks and fail. They will be the next inventors and creators in the world.

It should not be a surprise that some kids are finding those top ranked schools more boring than anticipated. They have been recruiting a generally narrow type of student lately. I expect there will be another sea change soon. It is likely part of the reason why MIT wants SATs again. They want bright, prepared, diverse and creative risk takers, but without the SAT they can't see through and interpret the GPA as well.

[Anonymous]

Maybe OP is reluctant to identify the current school because it is an SLAC and having this type of difficulty at an SLAC runs counter to the liberal arts education at a small school sales pitch.

If OP's child is looking to transfer, not identifying more about the current school is likely to make this an exercise in futility. Specifics matter. This is an anonymous forum. Most posters want to help and some of us have decades of experience.

[Anonymous]

OP, it is still only October. Maybe give it time. Students are nervous and trying to find their way and grinding at classes where they may not ultimately be successful. Not everyone who thinks they are Pre-Med stays Pre-Med, right? And it may take some time to find your people, but in a large University they are there. My DS attends Cornell and likes it very much but recently confessed to me that he is exhausted by the notion that every minute of your day has to involve something meaningful so that you get the right internship or the right job or the right grad school. His characterization reminded me of long ago being a Biglaw associate! He’s not built that way, and will probably have a different path than the hard chargers, but that’s OK.