Which of the T20 schools have the least driven, intense, goal-oriented students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is clear all the angry bitter adults attacking OPs teenager in this thread aren’t on T20 campuses now, because if they were, they would know that there is deep concern among the faculty about precisely what OPs child is reporting.

OP, I suggest your child find a faculty mentor to talk with. She isn’t alone in her concerns, but transferring might not be the answer either. The faculty is very familiar with the problem she’s identified and will be a resource for her. It may take a few tries, but I would counsel her to talk to her professors.

oh geez. how is an adult supposed to help a college freshman learn to socialize? ffs. so much helplessness. maybe this kid needs to come home and go to community college.

I mean you are the one calling a teenager you don’t know names. Maybe you aren’t really best positioned to speculate about adults who know how to help their students. It doesn’t seem to be a skill set you’d have.

Um it’s actually OP calling an entire school of teenagers “grinds” and “Tracy Flicks.”

I never called OP’s child any names. I just think it’s important to own your choices & circumstances & preferences and not blame others.

OP used the parenthetical phrase "holds nose" in addition to calling other students "grinds" and "Tracy Flicks"--which comes across as very juvenile. Plus, OP is unable to articulate the issue well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread makes me think l hope my kid chooses to go to school in Canada, where I’m from originally. Much easier to get into a great school, and pretty much everyone has a great time. Not a pressure cooker. (I hope it’s still like that!!)

Working hard at a academic pursuits is a great time for some of these students. Some of them like it. They are are finally in an environment where being a nerd is an asset instead of a liability.

This. I’m having a hard time with this thread. College is supposed to be for studying. OP seems to want the “top credentials” for their kid, with none of the effort.

OP I’m sure your kid can find an easy major and the stoner crowd, and enjoy some Gentleman’s Cs.

OP here. This is a little mean, since you’re responding to me pointedly while relying on thread drift for your facts. OP’s *KID* sought out and is already attending a top school. There are no Cs. Kid just wants to socialize more than once a month and locate similar friends who accept a 93 instead of pulling all-nighters for the 96.5 Tracy Flick. Did she have fun?

It is instructive that no one has first- or second-hand experience with a objectively top school that has a fun campus vibe.

My kid at Brown seems to be going to parties every few days, but complains that there aren't more/better parties and that kids are more career-oriented than expected. It's tough to calibrate whether that is better/worse than your kids experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Among the Top 15 National Universities, Dartmouth College, Brown, Duke, and Vanderbilt are probably the most relaxed/least intense unless pre-med.

Vandy not even top 20 Betty boo

Yes. Dartmouth was the template for Animal House! Beer Pong was invented there.

[Anonymous]

I had to re-read the OP. Either very few posters understood the point of the OP or OP did not make it clear until late 8 or the posts. OP, tell your kid to find some low-key, low-stairs club like Ultimate Frisbee or stage/tech crew for drama. Something that blows off steam or is not a go-getter activity and see if any of those kids are willing to take some down-time. I went to U Chicago many years ago and I found friends who valued downtime and going out to a show or grabbing a sandwich. Your kid probably just needs to look and get past the facade of looking busy that a lot of these T15 students may think you’re supposed to have. I don’t agree with those who say they should transfer. Just look around and find the slackers. There have to be some somewhere!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had to re-read the OP. Either very few posters understood the point of the OP or OP did not make it clear until late 8 or the posts. OP, tell your kid to find some low-key, low-stairs club like Ultimate Frisbee or stage/tech crew for drama. Something that blows off steam or is not a go-getter activity and see if any of those kids are willing to take some down-time. I went to U Chicago many years ago and I found friends who valued downtime and going out to a show or grabbing a sandwich. Your kid probably just needs to look and get past the facade of looking busy that a lot of these T15 students may think you’re supposed to have. I don’t agree with those who say they should transfer. Just look around and find the slackers. There have to be some somewhere!

Yes. Have her look in the places kids go to escape from the stress. Ultimate frisbee, pickle ball, Rock climbing... something that is not about serious academics or serious sports competition.

[Anonymous]

I would say consider Duke.

I am curious if the school is, in fact, Brown, as many consider it to be the laid back Ivy, and OP said this was a surprise.

To the uptight lawyer that says she is not, there are, in fact, brilliant kids without great executive functioning skills that will never make it into the top schools and it is a loss for the kids and the schools. There is a big space between Tracy Flick and Good Will Hunting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe OP is reluctant to identify the current school because it is an SLAC and having this type of difficulty at an SLAC runs counter to the liberal arts education at a small school sales pitch.

If OP's child is looking to transfer, not identifying more about the current school is likely to make this an exercise in futility. Specifics matter. This is an anonymous forum. Most posters want to help and some of us have decades of experience.

Truth

[Anonymous]

As others have said, it has become so competitive now, that to get into a top 10 school, you have to have high level executive functioning and by nature be an overachiever. Rankings are not everything. Plenty of great schools outside the top 10 or 15 where you can get a great education and also have a good time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a parent of a freshman a T15 school. Kid thought they were selecting a place commensurate with their [holds nose] top credentials that would nonetheless have a lot of fun kids who don't take themselves seriously and prioritize having a good time. Spoiler alert: this is not UChicago.

Anyway, kid is wrong. Not every student at kid's school is a Tracy Flick, of course, but there are so many of them that the vibe is affected. The seriousness and intensity permeates the dorms, the quad, the on campus coffee places ...

I promise I'm not a troll. Kid is grateful for this opportunity but really surprised at how wrong they were.

OP: It would be helpful to know the school to which your post refers in order to generate more pointed responses.

Broadly speaking, your daughter should look at SLACs--although none are among the top 20 US schools at least in the Wall Street Journal/ Times Higher Education rankings.

Among the top 20 National Universities, Brown University is the clear answer due to very limited requirements and student friendly grading policies. At other top 20s (all National Universities) one should find less demanding majors.

If you want a stoner type atmosphere, then I encourage your son/daughter to look at LACs such as Grinnnell College (a top 20 LAC). Another LAC--although not a top 20--where having fun is king is Colorado College (students take one course at a time for a few weeks before enjoying a long weekend break. Lots of recreational drugs.)

Haverford College, a top 20 LAC, has students who seem more focused on being more socially correct than on getting a high paying job/career after college.

Maybe Bowdoin College--a top 5 SLAC--is the school that your son/daughter is seeking.

Wesleyan University--also not a top 20--is much less intense than any top 20 school.

My kid attends a national university that is always in the top 15 for rankings. I don’t think they’d transfer at this point but I wonder if it’s crossed their mind

Was this post written by OP ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is clear all the angry bitter adults attacking OPs teenager in this thread aren’t on T20 campuses now, because if they were, they would know that there is deep concern among the faculty about precisely what OPs child is reporting.

OP, I suggest your child find a faculty mentor to talk with. She isn’t alone in her concerns, but transferring might not be the answer either. The faculty is very familiar with the problem she’s identified and will be a resource for her. It may take a few tries, but I would counsel her to talk to her professors.

Not getting a lot of anger or bitterness. Most posters seem to be saying...your student is sounding unhappy.

And the solutions seem to be....maybe a different school would be better or maybe she should stop stressing about others students studying all the time and do her own thing.

The crazy lawyer lady up above definitely sounded angry and bitter, or at least weirdly triggered. You have to admit that poster sounded weird.

A little anger sure, but most posters seem to be looking for a solution. If the competitive culture is a downer....don't get dragged into destructive competition or if that is not possible....try to find a place with a different culture if you can.

You must not have read the posts openly insulting OPs child. Yes, definitely angry and bitter. Why else would adults attack a teenager?

You must have not read any of the reasonable posts.

Posts attacking a teenager for something T20 professors worry and talk about as a problem are by definition not rational or reasonable. And there have been a lot of those.

Plenty of posters have suggested alternative institutions or other strategies as possible solutions. This is dcum. Take anything you find useful and ignore the rest

The problem with this thread is OP's lack of specificity. Garbage in, garbage out.

.

I see what you did. You want me to state the double major so that you can blast my kid for not studying aeronautics engineering with a minor in applied physics. That misses the point. You don’t need to know the course of ONE individual’s study to identify any university with a student body vibe that allows for regular fun. There may be none.

You also don’t need to know my kid’s school to suggest an answer like this: “yes, my kid attends Brown currently and reports that there’s definitely a work hard: play somewhat hard ethos at Brown in 2022.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dartmouth, Duke, Vandy….UVA, Michigan

Thank you - is this current info?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As others have said, it has become so competitive now, that to get into a top 10 school, you have to have high level executive functioning and by nature be an overachiever. Rankings are not everything. Plenty of great schools outside the top 10 or 15 where you can get a great education and also have a good time.

The admits I see heading to T10 type schools are most academically intense kids in the graduating class. Socializing seems to be a lower priority for the most part. So this is naturally going to be reflected in the atmosphere at these colleges.

If this is not your comfort zone that is ok......college is not necessarily where you want to seek your comfort zone. But don't be surprised that this is the type of person common at a T10 school. If it is really intolerable....look elsewhere for a better fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is clear all the angry bitter adults attacking OPs teenager in this thread aren’t on T20 campuses now, because if they were, they would know that there is deep concern among the faculty about precisely what OPs child is reporting.

OP, I suggest your child find a faculty mentor to talk with. She isn’t alone in her concerns, but transferring might not be the answer either. The faculty is very familiar with the problem she’s identified and will be a resource for her. It may take a few tries, but I would counsel her to talk to her professors.

oh geez. how is an adult supposed to help a college freshman learn to socialize? ffs. so much helplessness. maybe this kid needs to come home and go to community college.

I mean you are the one calling a teenager you don’t know names. Maybe you aren’t really best positioned to speculate about adults who know how to help their students. It doesn’t seem to be a skill set you’d have.

Um it’s actually OP calling an entire school of teenagers “grinds” and “Tracy Flicks.”

I never called OP’s child any names. I just think it’s important to own your choices & circumstances & preferences and not blame others.

I never called another individual a grind. I did conjure the image of Tracy Flick because she shares a lot of traits with the kids who my kid lives among. See the title: intense, driven, and most of all, goal oriented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is clear all the angry bitter adults attacking OPs teenager in this thread aren’t on T20 campuses now, because if they were, they would know that there is deep concern among the faculty about precisely what OPs child is reporting.

OP, I suggest your child find a faculty mentor to talk with. She isn’t alone in her concerns, but transferring might not be the answer either. The faculty is very familiar with the problem she’s identified and will be a resource for her. It may take a few tries, but I would counsel her to talk to her professors.

oh geez. how is an adult supposed to help a college freshman learn to socialize? ffs. so much helplessness. maybe this kid needs to come home and go to community college.

I mean you are the one calling a teenager you don’t know names. Maybe you aren’t really best positioned to speculate about adults who know how to help their students. It doesn’t seem to be a skill set you’d have.

Um it’s actually OP calling an entire school of teenagers “grinds” and “Tracy Flicks.”

I never called OP’s child any names. I just think it’s important to own your choices & circumstances & preferences and not blame others.

I never called another individual a grind. I did conjure the image of Tracy Flick because she shares a lot of traits with the kids who my kid lives among. See the title: intense, driven, and most of all, goal oriented.

Those are being presented as undesirable traits and not appealing to the student in question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe OP is reluctant to identify the current school because it is an SLAC and having this type of difficulty at an SLAC runs counter to the liberal arts education at a small school sales pitch.

If OP's child is looking to transfer, not identifying more about the current school is likely to make this an exercise in futility. Specifics matter. This is an anonymous forum. Most posters want to help and some of us have decades of experience.

.

There are only 15 schools in the T15 national universities and I acknowledged it isn’t UChicago. I said this in my OP.

I appreciate the personal anecdotes and thoughtful lists from some PPs. Also the big picture analysis - kid thought they could avoid the brass ring problem by being strategic in their choice. Seems they were wrong

If - if - kid raises the idea of transferring I would ask them to look at giant flagships like Michigan or Berkeley, etc. There has to be something of everything there - right?